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Sunni Shia Discussion Forum => Sahabah-AhlulBayt => Topic started by: Kalaam on August 31, 2016, 10:54:56 AM

Title: 'Relationship Between Sahaba and Ahlul Bayt' by Ibn Ahmad
Post by: Kalaam on August 31, 2016, 10:54:56 AM
Articles of Ibn Ahmad in the form of a book with minor modification (still in process).

https://app.box.com/s/uahx5nm9skpyfaa8xy6l6pprkqtv1ts3
Title: Re: 'Relationship Between Sahaba and Ahlul Bayt' by Ibn Ahmad
Post by: taha taha on August 31, 2016, 11:06:51 AM
Mashallah.
I could nt download it as not a member of box.
If someone can put it somewhere else once its finished.
Its a shame we have to write books like this to get our message across.
Then they still stay on their misguided path.

Title: Re: 'Relationship Between Sahaba and Ahlul Bayt' by Ibn Ahmad
Post by: MuslimK on August 31, 2016, 07:23:28 PM
May Allah reward you brother Kalaam for compiling those articles.

One problem: I see some chapter titles start in the bottom of the page. Please move them to the next page with paragraphs. Check pg. 196 to see what I am talking about. The chapter title Virtues of Ahlebayt narrated by Umar should be in the next page with the paragraphs.

Title: Re: 'Relationship Between Sahaba and Ahlul Bayt' by Ibn Ahmad
Post by: Hani on September 01, 2016, 02:51:28 AM
Salam,

Seems great! welcome back to the forums brother kalaam!
Title: Re: 'Relationship Between Sahaba and Ahlul Bayt' by Ibn Ahmad
Post by: Kalaam on January 12, 2018, 11:43:51 PM
Wa alaikum assalam brother Hani

Thank you.
Title: Re: 'Relationship Between Sahaba and Ahlul Bayt' by Ibn Ahmad
Post by: Kalaam on January 12, 2018, 11:48:59 PM
Here is the updated version.

https://app.box.com/s/kw1km8qsykotekkgynetulac1cku9opb
Title: Re: 'Relationship Between Sahaba and Ahlul Bayt' by Ibn Ahmad
Post by: iceman on January 12, 2018, 11:50:52 PM
Still desperately trying to prove that everything was sugar, candy and honey between that Sahaba and the Ahle Bayth.
Title: Re: 'Relationship Between Sahaba and Ahlul Bayt' by Ibn Ahmad
Post by: Kalaam on January 12, 2018, 11:53:47 PM
If there were nuclear wars between the two, why did they inter-married more than anyone else? For the sake of few narrations, you are ignoring the huge part of facts. This is insane.
Title: Re: 'Relationship Between Sahaba and Ahlul Bayt' by Ibn Ahmad
Post by: iceman on January 13, 2018, 12:46:14 AM
If there were nuclear wars between the two, why did they inter-married more than anyone else? For the sake of few narrations, you are ignoring the huge part of facts. This is insane.

They inter married and still this happened. If they didn't then God knows what would have happened. 😊 Never mind about inter marriage, nothing can stop jealousy and hatred. They were both Adam's sons weren't they. Look what happened between them. And look what Joseph's brothers did to him. I can give you many more examples.
Title: Re: 'Relationship Between Sahaba and Ahlul Bayt' by Ibn Ahmad
Post by: Noor-us-Sunnah on January 13, 2018, 01:56:21 AM
They inter married and still this happened. If they didn't then God knows what would have happened. 😊 Never mind about inter marriage, nothing can stop jealousy and hatred. They were both Adam's sons weren't they. Look what happened between them. And look what Joseph's brothers did to him. I can give you many more examples.

It's like comparing apples with oranges. You are comparing the relationships in which humans are not given any choice(siblings) with relationships where people have free will to make a choice(marriages). Yusuf(as) wasn't given a choice of being related to his brothers. Whereas, Ali(ra) had free choice in marrying  his daughter with Umar(ra) or not. Or Prophet(saws) had free choice in l marrying his two biological daughters to Uthaman(ra)
Title: Re: 'Relationship Between Sahaba and Ahlul Bayt' by Ibn Ahmad
Post by: Rationalist on January 13, 2018, 08:43:16 PM
Still desperately trying to prove that everything was sugar, candy and honey between that Sahaba and the Ahle Bayth.

As if your 12th Imam will bring in a better time and fix everything.
Title: Re: 'Relationship Between Sahaba and Ahlul Bayt' by Ibn Ahmad
Post by: iceman on January 15, 2018, 12:50:26 AM
As if your 12th Imam will bring in a better time and fix everything.

Never mind about the 12th Imam, Mahdi most certainly will. And he is your proof that things are going to get much more worse before a saviour (Mahdi) is sent. From Saqifa Caliphate messed things up badly. That's were the problem began. The sooner you accept reality and facts the better.
Title: Re: 'Relationship Between Sahaba and Ahlul Bayt' by Ibn Ahmad
Post by: Mythbuster1 on January 15, 2018, 02:37:04 AM
Never mind about the 12th Imam, Mahdi most certainly will. And he is your proof that things are going to get much more worse before a saviour (Mahdi) is sent. From Saqifa Caliphate messed things up badly. That's were the problem began. The sooner you accept reality and facts the better.

Rather have saqifa all day everyday  rather than follow some hidden fake geezer in a cave and fool the masses.😜
Title: Re: 'Relationship Between Sahaba and Ahlul Bayt' by Ibn Ahmad
Post by: Rationalist on January 15, 2018, 04:36:12 AM
Never mind about the 12th Imam, Mahdi most certainly will. And he is your proof that things are going to get much more worse before a saviour (Mahdi) is sent.
This is very similar to the Jewish concept of the end of times. Things are going to get worst then he is going to come. The Mahdi is no super human. The 12er Shia and the Jews both faced centuries of persecution and as a result they began to lose their rationality. Then in order to relieve themselves at harsh times they began to dreaming about a romantic figure who will one day come and save them.
Brother I am not the one who needs to wake up. The Mahdi will be no different than the earlier Imams who ruled. Under Imam Ali (as) majority of the Shias were closer in aqeeda to Sunnis. So when a Mahdi comes, he will not be able to unify the ummah into one way of thinking. Instead to lead he will give every Muslim freedom. This Shia/Rafidah/Sunni schools who outlive the Mahdi and exist till the end of time. If the madhabs outlived the 11 imams, then there should be no problem believing they will outlive the 12th imam.


Quote
From Saqifa Caliphate messed things up badly. That's were the problem began. The sooner you accept reality and facts the better.
That's why Sahaba like Ammar bin Yassir and Salman Farsi worked under these administrators? That's why Ammar Yassir fought under the Caliphate of Abi Bakr and lost his ear? Your takfiri mentally has misguided you.

Don't expect things to be conflict free if Imam Ali (as) became the first Calipah. The Karbala which came later would only occur soon.
Title: Re: 'Relationship Between Sahaba and Ahlul Bayt' by Ibn Ahmad
Post by: iceman on January 15, 2018, 05:14:55 AM
Rather have saqifa all day everyday  rather than follow some hidden fake geezer in a cave and fool the masses.😜

So who's Allah fooling by keeping Jesus and Khizar in hiding if we go by your ideology? Any explanation to why and what for are Jesus and Khizar in occultation? Lost for words as usual when this is mentioned. You can have the coincidental and hasty decision of Saqifa for breakfast, lunch and dinner as far as I'm concerned. The mess it brought within the Ummah and the bad name it gave to Islam and the Muslims can't be washed away. Keep on amusing and entertaining yourself.
Title: Re: 'Relationship Between Sahaba and Ahlul Bayt' by Ibn Ahmad
Post by: muslim720 on January 15, 2018, 06:19:31 AM
So who's Allah fooling by keeping Jesus and Khizar in hiding if we go by your ideology?

Faulty comparison! 

Quoting from the book edited by one of my favorite scholars, Seyyed Hossein Nasr, who happens to be Shia and from Iran (since you have never heard me speak positively about Iran and Shias), the world cannot remain without an Imam.  And that in the event such a thing happens, the Qur'an would die.  That, however, is not the argument that Islam makes, neither for Imams (ra) nor for 'Isa (asws) or Khidr (as).

The book reads, "Mulla Sadra wrote: 'The earth can never be devoid of an Imam, a Guide for every era.  Otherwise the Qur'an would die, owing to the death of those who support it.' "

https://books.google.com/books?id=m0GY_gNBqJkC&pg=PA178&lpg=PA178&dq=can+the+world+remain+without+imam&source=bl&ots=ayvyXa3bZM&sig=-3l8mWy5vtJklCdLHhMa8XorJg4&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjluYmC_9jYAhVCGt8KHfvbCUsQ6AEILTAB#v=onepage&q=can%20the%20world%20remain%20without%20imam&f=false  (scroll to page 178)

Title: Re: 'Relationship Between Sahaba and Ahlul Bayt' by Ibn Ahmad
Post by: Mythbuster1 on January 15, 2018, 03:17:10 PM
So who's Allah fooling by keeping Jesus and Khizar in hiding if we go by your ideology? Any explanation to why and what for are Jesus and Khizar in occultation? Lost for words as usual when this is mentioned. You can have the coincidental and hasty decision of Saqifa for breakfast, lunch and dinner as far as I'm concerned. The mess it brought within the Ummah and the bad name it gave to Islam and the Muslims can't be washed away. Keep on amusing and entertaining yourself.

Astaghfirullah look at your language may Allah swt guide you.You’ve been fooled by shaitaans boy Ibn Saba.only a devil would use such language of arrogance, maybe you are one.🤔

Allah swt doesn’t need to fool no one you simpleton, that’s your job to NOT be foolish like believing in hidden beings and divinity blessed humans.
Because of your false beliefs you will stoop to such levels??

Alhamdulillah for being Sunni 😊

You foolish man, Allah swt hasn’t HIDDEN ISA as, He is not in occultation (hiding from view), He Isa as is in heaven..........your fake made up imam is supposed be hiding on earth......his deputies HID him for fear of being killed.

Allah swt has definitely made YOU A FOOL for comparing the two.

The mess what Ibn Saba left is CLEAR to see........following hidden beings, believing in atom moving humans oh yea and for giving the Muslim world the FIRST MODERN DAY TERRORIST SUICIDE BOMBERS................The Islamic Dawa Party's car bombing of the Iraqi embassy in Beirut in December 1981 and Hezbollah's bombing of the U.S. embassy in April 1983 and attack on United States Marine and French barracks in October 1983 brought suicide bombings international attention. Other parties to the civil war were quick to adopt the tactic, and by 1999 factions such as Hezbollah, the Amal Movement, the Ba'ath Party, and the Syrian Social Nationalist Party had carried out around 50 suicide bombings between them. (The latter of these groups sent the first recorded female suicide bomber in 1985.)

And now look at the Shiite militias on killing sprees in Syria Iraq Lebanon and wilayah faqih government of Iran killing Sunnis still even after massacring them and forcefully converting them a couple of centuries back.

Look how LOW you have stooped to astaghfirullah using such language for the Almighty swt.......that can only be the outcome of following a minority sect believing in superhuman men moving atoms.......FOOLS!
Title: Re: 'Relationship Between Sahaba and Ahlul Bayt' by Ibn Ahmad
Post by: iceman on January 15, 2018, 07:05:16 PM
Astaghfirullah look at your language may Allah swt guide you.You’ve been fooled by shaitaans boy Ibn Saba.only a devil would use such language of arrogance, maybe you are one.🤔

Allah swt doesn’t need to fool no one you simpleton, that’s your job to NOT be foolish like believing in hidden beings and divinity blessed humans.
Because of your false beliefs you will stoop to such levels??

Alhamdulillah for being Sunni 😊

You foolish man, Allah swt hasn’t HIDDEN ISA as, He is not in occultation (hiding from view), He Isa as is in heaven..........your fake made up imam is supposed be hiding on earth......his deputies HID him for fear of being killed.

Allah swt has definitely made YOU A FOOL for comparing the two.

The mess what Ibn Saba left is CLEAR to see........following hidden beings, believing in atom moving humans oh yea and for giving the Muslim world the FIRST MODERN DAY TERRORIST SUICIDE BOMBERS................The Islamic Dawa Party's car bombing of the Iraqi embassy in Beirut in December 1981 and Hezbollah's bombing of the U.S. embassy in April 1983 and attack on United States Marine and French barracks in October 1983 brought suicide bombings international attention. Other parties to the civil war were quick to adopt the tactic, and by 1999 factions such as Hezbollah, the Amal Movement, the Ba'ath Party, and the Syrian Social Nationalist Party had carried out around 50 suicide bombings between them. (The latter of these groups sent the first recorded female suicide bomber in 1985.)

And now look at the Shiite militias on killing sprees in Syria Iraq Lebanon and wilayah faqih government of Iran killing Sunnis still even after massacring them and forcefully converting them a couple of centuries back.

Look how LOW you have stooped to astaghfirullah using such language for the Almighty swt.......that can only be the outcome of following a minority sect believing in superhuman men moving atoms.......FOOLS!

Don't try and miss quote and interpret what I said. Steady on there. One by one and one step at a time boys. I will deal with all your concerns and queries.
Title: Re: 'Relationship Between Sahaba and Ahlul Bayt' by Ibn Ahmad
Post by: zaid_ibn_ali on January 15, 2018, 08:46:54 PM
Don't try and miss quote and interpret what I said. Steady on there. One by one and one step at a time boys. I will deal with all your concerns and queries.

You always ask us to point out the issue & then say you will answer. But then you run away. Like the 12 rep thread. Like the post where you claim shias saved Islam & Islam only prospered under shia.

Where are your replies to these questions?

You are obviously following the cowardly imaginary Imam hiding in the cave.

Title: Re: 'Relationship Between Sahaba and Ahlul Bayt' by Ibn Ahmad
Post by: iceman on January 15, 2018, 10:19:53 PM
You always ask us to point out the issue & then say you will answer. But then you run away. Like the 12 rep thread. Like the post where you claim shias saved Islam & Islam only prospered under shia.

Where are your replies to these questions?

You are obviously following the cowardly imaginary Imam hiding in the cave.

How the hell do you expect me to put up with all of you and then you bringing in other issues and matters which are completely irrelevant to the thread and what is being discussed. Like I said, one at a time and one step at a time. Now if you're interested and want some answers then who's first? Only one step forward and the rest keep out until we're done. Then the next one can step forward.
Title: Re: 'Relationship Between Sahaba and Ahlul Bayt' by Ibn Ahmad
Post by: Khaled on January 15, 2018, 10:55:59 PM
How the hell do you expect me to put up with all of you and then you bringing in other issues and matters which are completely irrelevant to the thread and what is being discussed. Like I said, one at a time and one step at a time. Now if you're interested and want some answers then who's first? Only one step forward and the rest keep out until we're done. Then the next one can step forward.

Like I've told you time and time again, your refusal to answer any point brought up to you and your insistence on bringing issues unrelated to the topic is the reason why all these pile up on you.  In the Mut'ah thread, you were unable to answer anything for over 100 posts and all you could provide was a half quote of a fatwa stating Mut'ah was mustahabb.  In the thread about Iran, you continuously misunderstood everyone's positions and kept bringing the issue back to Saudi.  When it was exposed to you that most people here think of Saudi and Iran as equally evil, or even that Saudi might be worse, you started saying weird things and putting smilies faces.  Here, you tell us that Shi'as saved Islam, when we ask you to bring any examples, you turn the topic into Saqifa.  Let me tell you, I am VERY proud of the period of 30 years after the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم's death, and I think the first 2-300 years of Islamic history are very good in comparison to anything that came before it.  I am very proud of the Islamic Golden Age, I am very proud of Salah al-Din and the Muslims during the Crusades, and I am very proud of a lot of the Ottoman's accomplishments.  I am very proud of a lot of Islamic history.  Now, please provide us with one thing the Shi'as did to save Islam.
Title: Re: 'Relationship Between Sahaba and Ahlul Bayt' by Ibn Ahmad
Post by: iceman on January 15, 2018, 11:10:06 PM
Like I've told you time and time again, your refusal to answer any point brought up to you and your insistence on bringing issues unrelated to the topic is the reason why all these pile up on you.  In the Mut'ah thread, you were unable to answer anything for over 100 posts and all you could provide was a half quote of a fatwa stating Mut'ah was mustahabb.  In the thread about Iran, you continuously misunderstood everyone's positions and kept bringing the issue back to Saudi.  When it was exposed to you that most people here think of Saudi and Iran as equally evil, or even that Saudi might be worse, you started saying weird things and putting smilies faces.  Here, you tell us that Shi'as saved Islam, when we ask you to bring any examples, you turn the topic into Saqifa.  Let me tell you, I am VERY proud of the period of 30 years after the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم's death, and I think the first 2-300 years of Islamic history are very good in comparison to anything that came before it.  I am very proud of the Islamic Golden Age, I am very proud of Salah al-Din and the Muslims during the Crusades, and I am very proud of a lot of the Ottoman's accomplishments.  I am very proud of a lot of Islamic history.  Now, please provide us with one thing the Shi'as did to save Islam.

Let me put you straight again, I have answered all questions and addressed all points in extensive detail and in depth. Now if they don't suit you or serve your purpose then I'm afraid there's not much I can do about that.

We're dealing with people who have been fed nonsense and told rubbish about the other sect and community. And because of this people have developed a mindset and think, say and act accordingly. This is the reason why we're running in circles and not because of me.

The points you have made in this post are absolutely unjust and extremely unfair. But what can I expect from an Anti Shia. This is what I'm up against and dealing with. You bring in multiple issues and matters rather than one thing and then sticking to it and that is exactly what you've done in this latest post of yours.
Title: Re: 'Relationship Between Sahaba and Ahlul Bayt' by Ibn Ahmad
Post by: Khaled on January 15, 2018, 11:21:05 PM
Let me put you straight again, I have answered all questions and addressed all points in extensive detail and in depth.

The proof is in the pudding http://forum.twelvershia.net/general-sunni-vs-shia/is-mutah-really-halal-for-shia/msg21293/

Do you sincerely believe that you answered ANYTHING brought up to you in this thread?  A single point?

Quote
We're dealing with people who have been fed nonsense and told rubbish about the other sect and community. And because of this people have developed a mindset and think, say and act accordingly. This is the reason why we're running in circles and not because of me.

Disagree, no one fed me anything, I did my own research.  IMO, it is YOU that has been fed nonsense against every Muslim who does not belong in your sect.  That's why you have such a negative image of 1400 years of Islam; something only the staunchest Islamphobe would agree with you upon.

Quote
The points you have made in this post are absolutely unjust and extremely unfair. But what can I expect from an Anti Shia. This is what I'm up against and dealing with. You bring in multiple issues and matters rather than one thing and then sticking to it and that is exactly what you've done in this latest post of yours.

I'm not anti-Shia, I am a critic of Twelverism true, but that doesn't make me anti-Shia.  I consider you my brother in Islam just like any other 12er, and my view of Zaidis is actually neutral leaning on positive.  Your views of any Muslim who is not in your sect though leaves a lot to be desired.
Title: Re: 'Relationship Between Sahaba and Ahlul Bayt' by Ibn Ahmad
Post by: iceman on January 16, 2018, 12:01:14 AM
The proof is in the pudding http://forum.twelvershia.net/general-sunni-vs-shia/is-mutah-really-halal-for-shia/msg21293/

Do you sincerely believe that you answered ANYTHING brought up to you in this thread?  A single point?

Disagree, no one fed me anything, I did my own research.  IMO, it is YOU that has been fed nonsense against every Muslim who does not belong in your sect.  That's why you have such a negative image of 1400 years of Islam; something only the staunchest Islamphobe would agree with you upon.

I'm not anti-Shia, I am a critic of Twelverism true, but that doesn't make me anti-Shia.  I consider you my brother in Islam just like any other 12er, and my view of Zaidis is actually neutral leaning on positive.  Your views of any Muslim who is not in your sect though leaves a lot to be desired.

Anyone who doesn't believe or share what I do is just as a Muslim as I am. I do not pick on or mock and take the mickey out of any sect or school of thought. I do not consider other Muslims as ill faithed or see or call them as Kafir. I am not from a group who go on a killing spree just because others believe in and are different from me. Neither do I believe in using violence and or threatening behaviour to have my demands met or just to get my way or at least make others unsuccessful.

Now lets cut out the nonsense and tell me what exactly I haven't answered?
Title: Re: 'Relationship Between Sahaba and Ahlul Bayt' by Ibn Ahmad
Post by: zaid_ibn_ali on January 16, 2018, 12:09:35 AM
Playing the dumb card & acting like your memory got wiped out again. Boring.
Title: Re: 'Relationship Between Sahaba and Ahlul Bayt' by Ibn Ahmad
Post by: Khaled on January 16, 2018, 12:46:29 AM
Anyone who doesn't believe or share what I do is just as a Muslim as I am. I do not pick on or mock and take the mickey out of any sect or school of thought. I do not consider other Muslims as ill faithed or see or call them as Kafir. I am not from a group who go on a killing spree just because others believe in and are different from me. Neither do I believe in using violence and or threatening behaviour to have my demands met or just to get my way or at least make others unsuccessful.

Neither am I, so I'm not sure why you brought this up.  However, you are the type of person who views all of Islamic history in a negative light, and you are the type of person that defends Iran and Bashar's actions in Syria.  I am against ALL intra-Muslim oppression; including the ones done by the Najdi State of Saudi and Safawi state of Iran and Bashar's state in Syria.

Quote
Now lets cut out the nonsense and tell me what exactly I haven't answered?

Here for the fifth or sixth time:

Quote
1) What is the ruling for Mut'ah in the Ja'fari madhhab? *answered* It is mustahabb according to Ayatollah Khamini.
2) If it is at least mustahabb, why is it so taboo in Ja'fari communities?
3) Is there any fatwas or ahadeeth which mention that Mut'ah is for certain circumstances?  As you know, the fatwas we read and the ahadeeth that are quoted always seem to imply that the virtue of the act is unrestricted.
4) Do you believe that Bukhari, Muslim and other early hadeeth scholars mentioned the narrations that "Omar banned Mut'ah" because they believe Omar DID ban Mut'ah, or did they have other intentions?
5) Why did you think you were making a point when you said that "Mut'ah was allowed during the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم's time"?  This one is real confusing to me because ALL things that were haraam were allowed until the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم banned it.
6) New issue:  I was reading this thread on shiachat http://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/235054737-can-i-have-mutah-with-different-men/ Why do you suppose everyone was discouraging her from doing Mut'ah with multiple men and some even accused her of being Salafi/Wahhabi?  How does this reconcile with the ahadeeth we read which say that the more you do Mut'ah, the more reward you will get (as is mentioned in the latest post by Muslim720)?
Title: Re: 'Relationship Between Sahaba and Ahlul Bayt' by Ibn Ahmad
Post by: iceman on January 16, 2018, 02:24:13 AM
Playing the dumb card & acting like your memory got wiped out again. Boring.

What ever........😕
Title: Re: 'Relationship Between Sahaba and Ahlul Bayt' by Ibn Ahmad
Post by: Zlatan Ibrahimovic on January 19, 2018, 06:23:25 PM
.

Here for the fifth or sixth time:

Let me answer you;

1) Mut'ah is mustahab just as permanent marriage is mustahab.

2 and 3) These are intertwined, sometimes it is due to culture and sometimes it is because mut'ah should not be done under some circumstances and these circumstances are mentioned in the hadiths. If you want, I can post some hadiths applying some conditions.

4) - not directed at me -

5) - not directed at me -

6) It is not mustahab for a virgin sister to engage in mut'ah. I don't know where you got that everyone was discouraging her, I just read the thread and some brothers did not shy away from answers.
Title: Re: 'Relationship Between Sahaba and Ahlul Bayt' by Ibn Ahmad
Post by: Khaled on January 19, 2018, 09:33:35 PM
Let me answer you

بارك الله فيك, thanks for attempting to answer.  Just so you know, this is a list of questions I posed to Ameen/Iceman on the big Mut'ah thread, so these questions are related to the conversations over there.  For example:

Quote
1) Mut'ah is mustahab just as permanent marriage is mustahab.

This was already established, however, this is not the full fatwa as quoted by Ayatollah Khamini.  The fatwa goes like this:

Quote
Q: If in the mukallaf’s country/city the common view considers mut‘ah marriage as a slander or accusation in such a way that a believer is accused of being not religious and having illegal relations or even despised if he/she does it, what is the ruling, then?

A: Although mut‘ah marriage is permissible, or rather mustahabb in our view, it is not obligatory in shar‘. Therefore, if it leads to conflict, accusation or vile consequences matters that are not acceptable by the Divine Legislator, it is rendered impermissible for the mukallaf to be indulged in such a marriage.

This the fatwa quoted by Ameen, notice, that the only condition he places on Mut'ah is if it "leads to ... vile consequences", i.e., the only condition is as long as it is not taboo.

Quote
2 and 3) These are intertwined, sometimes it is due to culture and sometimes it is because mut'ah should not be done under some circumstances and these circumstances are mentioned in the hadiths. If you want, I can post some hadiths applying some conditions.

They are not intertwined:
a) One is a questions about cultural taboos, the other is a request for a fatwa that restricts Mut'ah.
b) Which cultures do you know have ever considered Mut'ah a non-taboo issue other than pre-Islamic Arabs? (this is a VERY important point which I am guessing you and Ameen will completely ignore)
c) Please provide fatwas (for me) or ahadeeth (for Rationalist), as that was questions #3.
d) If you are able to provide any, can you tell me how reconcile them with the ahadeeth stating that the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم said that doing Mut'ah four times will put you on the same status as him?  Do you reconcile them?  Do you reject one?  What is your methodology for doing so?

Quote
4) - not directed at me -

Alhamdulilah you're not one of those "I can prove Mut'ah from Sunni narrations" type of guys.  Ameen on that thread was unable to answer the questions like you are trying to, and instead would post narrations stating "Omar banned Mutah" every couple of pages.

Quote
5) - not directed at me -

While true, you did post in your other (unwise) thread about slavery that the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم would never allow something haram even though there is a consensus that the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم "allowed" drinking alcohol, and "allowed" the changing of the adopted son's last name; yet those things were later made haram.  This argument really works against any Shi'i.

Quote
6) It is not mustahab for a virgin sister to engage in mut'ah.

I was wondering why they were discouraging her from engaging with multiple Mut'ah partners.  I didn't mention anything about virginity.

Quote
I don't know where you got that everyone was discouraging her, I just read the thread and some brothers did not shy away from answers.

Everyone could be discouraging her while simultaneously answering her... I don't see the contradiction.  So the question still remains; why would you discourage someone from having more than one Mut'ah partner if doing it four times causes the person to be on the same status as the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم?  Have you heard of any acts in 12ersim with this level of reward (including permanent marriage?)
Title: Re: 'Relationship Between Sahaba and Ahlul Bayt' by Ibn Ahmad
Post by: Zlatan Ibrahimovic on January 20, 2018, 05:16:09 AM

This was already established, however, this is not the full fatwa as quoted by Ayatollah Khamini.  The fatwa goes like this:

This the fatwa quoted by Ameen, notice, that the only condition he places on Mut'ah is if it "leads to ... vile consequences", i.e., the only condition is as long as it is not taboo.

They are not intertwined:
a) One is a questions about cultural taboos, the other is a request for a fatwa that restricts Mut'ah.
b) Which cultures do you know have ever considered Mut'ah a non-taboo issue other than pre-Islamic Arabs? (this is a VERY important point which I am guessing you and Ameen will completely ignore)
c) Please provide fatwas (for me) or ahadeeth (for Rationalist), as that was questions #3.
d) If you are able to provide any, can you tell me how reconcile them with the ahadeeth stating that the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم said that doing Mut'ah four times will put you on the same status as him?  Do you reconcile them?  Do you reject one?  What is your methodology for doing so?


While I was searching for the hadiths on Google, it would seem I hit the jackpot. Someone on ShiaChat has already answered this issue;

http://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/235031609-dr-farrokh-sekaleshfar-slams-mutah-obsessives/?do=findComment&comment=2824204

A) The cultural taboo may be the reason why it mut'ah is restricted.
B) I personally don't know.
C) I did, please check the link and look at the comments of the brothers.
D) We reconcile them, just as Sayyed Khamenei did, wherein he said it is mustahab in and of itself but said if it leads to vile consequences it won't be.