TwelverShia.net Forum
Sunni Shia Discussion Forum => Sahabah-AhlulBayt => Topic started by: Hadrami on April 27, 2016, 04:40:29 AM
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It's not far fetched to compare who is better, Abu Bakr RA or Ali RA. Some point about them.
- they became Muslim very early
- Muslim were very weak, no advantage to becomw Muslim
- Abu Bakr RA lost his standing among Quraysh while Ali RA was still a kid & has not much to lose
- Abu Bakr RA spent his money to free Muslim slaves & convert more people as again Ali RA was still a kid.
- they both went to battles
From those short comparison, they're not that much different, but
For all his virtues, how can Husayn RA be better than Abu Bakr RA considering what Abu Bakr RA has suffered and done for Islam from the very beginning until his last breath?
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In Ahle Sunnah companionship is considered the highest in status. With the Shia sects its the status of Imamate.
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In Ahle Sunnah companionship is considered the highest in status. With the Shia sects its the status of Imamate.
Well at least the companions were praised many times in al-Qur'an, so there is a basis for such belief. Putting companionship & imam status aside, it doesnt add up to put them on par. Eq Ali bin Husayn and the rest of imam, not to mention the last one.
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Well at least the companions were praised many times in al-Qur'an, so there is a basis for such belief. Putting companionship & imam status aside, it doesnt add up to put them on par. Eq Ali bin Husayn and the rest of imam, not to mention the last one.
Some Prophets are mentioned more than others, it doesn't mean they are more superior.
The ahadith of Imamate is combined with the Prophet (pbuh) say Hussain is from me, and I am from him.
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It's not far fetched to compare who is better, Abu Bakr RA or Ali RA. Some point about them.
- they became Muslim very early
- Muslim were very weak, no advantage to becomw Muslim
- Abu Bakr RA lost his standing among Quraysh while Ali RA was still a kid & has not much to lose
- Abu Bakr RA spent his money to free Muslim slaves & convert more people as again Ali RA was still a kid.
- they both went to battles
From those short comparison, they're not that much different, but
For all his virtues, how can Husayn RA be better than Abu Bakr RA considering what Abu Bakr RA has suffered and done for Islam from the very beginning until his last breath?
Abu bakr never has any position or status or money or anything. He was meagre servant in a hotel who use to call out for people to come n eat.
Pity you compare abu bakr to Ahlul bait (as)
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It's not far fetched to compare who is better, Abu Bakr RA or Ali RA. Some point about them.
- they became Muslim very early
- Muslim were very weak, no advantage to becomw Muslim
- Abu Bakr RA lost his standing among Quraysh while Ali RA was still a kid & has not much to lose
- Abu Bakr RA spent his money to free Muslim slaves & convert more people as again Ali RA was still a kid.
- they both went to battles
From those short comparison, they're not that much different, but
For all his virtues, how can Husayn RA be better than Abu Bakr RA considering what Abu Bakr RA has suffered and done for Islam from the very beginning until his last breath?
Abu bakr never has any position or status or money or anything. He was meagre servant in a hotel who use to call out for people to come n eat.
Pity you compare abu bakr to Ahlul bait (as)
It's not a pity, but an honour.
When it comes down to the nitty-gritty it's easy to compare Abu Bakr (RA) to the Ahlul Bhayt (RA) because there is no comparison between any members of Ahlul Bhayt (RA) and Abu Bakr (RA).
That includes Ai'aha (RA), btw.
Kindly review the thread in detail to understand why.
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It's not far fetched to compare who is better, Abu Bakr RA or Ali RA. Some point about them.
- they became Muslim very early
- Muslim were very weak, no advantage to becomw Muslim
- Abu Bakr RA lost his standing among Quraysh while Ali RA was still a kid & has not much to lose
- Abu Bakr RA spent his money to free Muslim slaves & convert more people as again Ali RA was still a kid.
- they both went to battles
From those short comparison, they're not that much different, but
For all his virtues, how can Husayn RA be better than Abu Bakr RA considering what Abu Bakr RA has suffered and done for Islam from the very beginning until his last breath?
Abu Bakr superior to Ahlul Bayt (as) when the former stole Fadak from the latter? No way!
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It's not far fetched to compare who is better, Abu Bakr RA or Ali RA. Some point about them.
- they became Muslim very early
- Muslim were very weak, no advantage to becomw Muslim
- Abu Bakr RA lost his standing among Quraysh while Ali RA was still a kid & has not much to lose
- Abu Bakr RA spent his money to free Muslim slaves & convert more people as again Ali RA was still a kid.
- they both went to battles
From those short comparison, they're not that much different, but
For all his virtues, how can Husayn RA be better than Abu Bakr RA considering what Abu Bakr RA has suffered and done for Islam from the very beginning until his last breath?
Abu Bakr superior to Ahlul Bayt (as) when the former stole Fadak from the latter? No way!
Oh, hell yeah.
You see it's quite simple.
When, you stack of fadhail of Abu Bakr (RA) from authentic sources not to mention the Qur'an as well compared to the fadhail of all the other companions including the Ahlul Bhayt (RA). The results are unconquerable.
It's worth mentioning that many of those fadhail have been narrated by no other than Imam Ali himself. ;)
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It's not far fetched to compare who is better, Abu Bakr RA or Ali RA. Some point about them.
- they became Muslim very early
- Muslim were very weak, no advantage to becomw Muslim
- Abu Bakr RA lost his standing among Quraysh while Ali RA was still a kid & has not much to lose
- Abu Bakr RA spent his money to free Muslim slaves & convert more people as again Ali RA was still a kid.
- they both went to battles
From those short comparison, they're not that much different, but
For all his virtues, how can Husayn RA be better than Abu Bakr RA considering what Abu Bakr RA has suffered and done for Islam from the very beginning until his last breath?
Abu Bakr superior to Ahlul Bayt (as) when the former stole Fadak from the latter? No way!
Oh, hell yeah.
You see it's quite simple.
When, you stack of fadhail of Abu Bakr (RA) from authentic sources not to mention the Qur'an as well compared to the fadhail of all the other companions including the Ahlul Bhayt (RA). The results are unconquerable.
It's worth mentioning that many of those fadhail have been narrated by no other than Imam Ali himself. ;)
Fadhail of Abu bakr???? Any other fairy tales please
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It's not far fetched to compare who is better, Abu Bakr RA or Ali RA. Some point about them.
- they became Muslim very early
- Muslim were very weak, no advantage to becomw Muslim
- Abu Bakr RA lost his standing among Quraysh while Ali RA was still a kid & has not much to lose
- Abu Bakr RA spent his money to free Muslim slaves & convert more people as again Ali RA was still a kid.
- they both went to battles
From those short comparison, they're not that much different, but
For all his virtues, how can Husayn RA be better than Abu Bakr RA considering what Abu Bakr RA has suffered and done for Islam from the very beginning until his last breath?
Abu Bakr superior to Ahlul Bayt (as) when the former stole Fadak from the latter? No way!
Oh, hell yeah.
You see it's quite simple.
When, you stack of fadhail of Abu Bakr (RA) from authentic sources not to mention the Qur'an as well compared to the fadhail of all the other companions including the Ahlul Bhayt (RA). The results are unconquerable.
It's worth mentioning that many of those fadhail have been narrated by no other than Imam Ali himself. ;)
Fadhail of Abu bakr???? Any other fairy tales please
Would you like references from our sources that will confirm this fact.
Abu Bakr (RA) is the greatest human being to walk this Earth after the Prophets (AS) of Allah.
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Fadhail of Abu bakr???? Any other fairy tales please
Your Imams numbered 9, 10, 11 and 12 becoming Imams at childhood is the biggest fairy tale.
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Believing in fadhail of Abu bakr al khaddab is same as believing in two Gods. Both are false.
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Look at this Shia how he resorts to insults since he has no arguments.
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If Abu Bakr was so great, why didn't he get any of the alleged daughters of Rasool (saww)?
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If Abu Bakr was so great, why didn't he get any of the alleged daughters of Rasool (saww)?
If marrying a daughter of Rasulullah shallallahu alaihi wasallam equals greatness then will you say uthman RA greater than Ali RA?
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Look at this Shia how he resorts to insults since he has no arguments.
Insult is the pillar of their belief
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Look at this Shia how he resorts to insults since he has no arguments.
Insult is the pillar of their beliefBelieving in fadhail of Abu bakr al khaddab is same as believing in two Gods. Both are false.
Imagine if we insult, not their imam, let alone their scholars on sc. Wed be banned in second
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If Abu Bakr was so great, why didn't he get any of the alleged daughters of Rasool (saww)?
Most of your top scholars don't claim they're "alleged", they believe they're his real daughters, this alleged stuff is a returning Shia fashion trend.
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If Abu Bakr was so great, why didn't he get any of the alleged daughters of Rasool (saww)?
If marrying a daughter of Rasulullah shallallahu alaihi wasallam equals greatness then will you say uthman RA greater than Ali RA?
Nope, because Fatimah (as) is said to be the leading woman of Jannah, and those alleged daughters of Rasool (saww) are disputed.
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If Abu Bakr was so great, why didn't he get any of the alleged daughters of Rasool (saww)?
If marrying a daughter of Rasulullah shallallahu alaihi wasallam equals greatness then will you say uthman RA greater than Ali RA?
Nope, because Fatimah (as) is said to be the leading woman of Jannah, and those alleged daughters of Rasool (saww) are disputed.
Even the Prophethood of Muhammad(SAWS) was disputed among human beings, The believers accepted it, but the Kuffar rejected it. So in the case with the three daughters of Prophet(SAWS) those who respect the children of Prophet(SAWS) believed in it, but the veiled Nasibis(Rafidah) rejected it. And those hidden Nasibis who reject the biological daughters of Prophet(SAWS) have indeed hurt them.
A Sahi(authentic) narration from shia book:
محمد بن يعقوب عن علي بن ابراهيم عن ابيه عن ابن محبوب عن علي بن رئاب عن عبد صالح عليه السلام قال، ادع بهذا الدعاء في شهر رمضان مستقبل دخول السنة
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اللهم صل على القاسم والطاهر ابني نبيك، اللهم صل على رقية بنت نبيك والعن من آذى نبيك فيها، اللهم صل على ام كلثوم بنت نبيك
(source)
Muhammd b. Ya’qub from ‘Aliy b. Ibrahim from his father from ibn Mahbub from ‘Aliy b. Râ’ib from Abd Salih (peace be upon him) he said: Call with this prayer in the month of Ramadan in the future with the entrance of the year: O Allah send your blessings upon Qâsim and Tâhir sons of your Prophet, O Allah send your blessings upon Ruqayyah daughter of your prophet and curse those who hurt your Prophet through her, O Allah send your blessings upon Umm Kulthûm daughter of your Prophet. [Tahdhib al-Ahkam, Vol. 3, Pg. 106-122]
For more details:
https://youpuncturedtheark.wordpress.com/2010/10/11/how-many-daughters-did-prophetsaw-had/
If Abu Bakr was so great, why didn't he get any of the alleged daughters of Rasool (saww)?
Because Abu bakr(RA) was already married. And Prophet(SAWS) married his daughter to those who remained monogamous. This is the reason Prophet(SAWS) asked Ali(RA) to leave Fatima(RA) when he wanted to marry the daughter of Abu Jahl.
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Believing in fadhail of Abu bakr al khaddab is same as believing in two Gods. Both are false.
قَالَ أَبُو بَكْرٍ عِنْدَ مَوْتِهِ حَيْثُ قِيلَ لَهُ أَوْصِ فَقَالَ أُوصِي بِالْخُمُسِ وَ الْخُمُسُ كَثِيرٌ فَإِنَّ اللَّهَ تَعَالَى قَدْ رَضِيَ بِالْخُمُسِ فَأَوْصَى بِالْخُمُسِ وَ قَدْ جَعَلَ اللَّهُ عَزَّ وَ جَلَّ لَهُ الثُّلُثَ عِنْدَ مَوْتِهِ وَ لَوْ عَلِمَ أَنَّ الثُّلُثَ خَيْرٌ لَهُ أَوْصَى بِهِ ثُمَّ مَنْ قَدْ عَلِمْتُمْ بَعْدَهُ فِي فَضْلِهِ وَ زُهْدِهِ سَلْمَانُ وَ أَبُو ذَرٍّ رَضِيَ اللَّهُ عَنْهُمَا
Imam Jafar(as) said: Abu Bakr at the time of his death, when asked to make a will, made a will about one-fifth of his legacy saying, “One-fifth is a great deal.” Allah, most High, has approved wills about one-fifth. So he made a will about one-fifth. Allah, most Majestic, most Glorious, had given the right to make a will about one-third of one’s legacy at the time of one’s death. If he knew that one-third is better for him he would have made a will for one-third. People other than abu Bakr, as you know their excellence(Fadhl) and restraint(Zuhd) from the worldly matters, were Salman and abu Dharr, may Allah be happy with them.(Al-Kafi, vol 5, page 68).
So, I guess your infallible Imam believed in two Gods, as well.
Fadhail of Abu bakr???? Any other fairy tales please
I believe by Abu Bakr you mean your twelfth Imam by this, since he has a title name as "Abu Bakr" [See:Al-Najmu Al-Thāqib‘ by Hussein Noori Al-Tabrissi].
Since his fadhail, are nothing but fairy tales. Infact his very existence is a fairy tale.
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Even the Prophethood of Muhammad(SAWS) was disputed among human beings, The believers accepted it, but the Kuffar rejected it. So in the case with the three daughters of Prophet(SAWS) those who respect the children of Prophet(SAWS) believed in it, but the veiled Nasibis(Rafidah) rejected it. And those hidden Nasibis who reject the biological daughters of Prophet(SAWS) have indeed hurt them.
Many have stated that the alleged daughters of Prophet (saww) are indeed the daughters of Khadeejah's sister. Veiled Nasibis? What about you open Nasibi Bakris [so-called Sunnis]?
A Sahi(authentic) narration from shia book:
محمد بن يعقوب عن علي بن ابراهيم عن ابيه عن ابن محبوب عن علي بن رئاب عن عبد صالح عليه السلام قال، ادع بهذا الدعاء في شهر رمضان مستقبل دخول السنة
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اللهم صل على القاسم والطاهر ابني نبيك، اللهم صل على رقية بنت نبيك والعن من آذى نبيك فيها، اللهم صل على ام كلثوم بنت نبيك
(source)
Muhammd b. Ya’qub from ‘Aliy b. Ibrahim from his father from ibn Mahbub from ‘Aliy b. Râ’ib from Abd Salih (peace be upon him) he said: Call with this prayer in the month of Ramadan in the future with the entrance of the year: O Allah send your blessings upon Qâsim and Tâhir sons of your Prophet, O Allah send your blessings upon Ruqayyah daughter of your prophet and curse those who hurt your Prophet through her, O Allah send your blessings upon Umm Kulthûm daughter of your Prophet. [Tahdhib al-Ahkam, Vol. 3, Pg. 106-122]
For more details:
https://youpuncturedtheark.wordpress.com/2010/10/11/how-many-daughters-did-prophetsaw-had/
The problem with literalists is that you guys often turn Wahhabi because of not using the intellect [`Aql]. Even the Quraanic verse of Mubahalah alludes to Imam Hasan (as) and Imam Husayn (as) as being sons of Prophet (saww).
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If Abu Bakr was so great, why didn't he get any of the alleged daughters of Rasool (saww)?
It gets better. The Prophet (SAW) proposed for his daughter, and it was also a command from Allah to marry A'isha (RA).
Either it was a win-win situation! :D
So, the best of women in this Ummah married Ali (RA) = great virtue for Ali (RA). :)
However, the BEST of creation married Ai'sha (RA) = better vitue for her, and Abu Bakr (RA) by extension. ;)
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Many have stated that the alleged daughters of Prophet (saww) are indeed the daughters of Khadeejah's sister. Veiled Nasibis? What about you open Nasibi Bakris [so-called Sunnis]?
Yes those who believed that were veiled Nasibis, Indeed. So congrats for joining the ranks of those veiled Nasibis.
And yes, by honoring and respect the complete family of Muhammad(SAWS), we become "Open-Nasibis", it's like the pot calling the kettle black.
A Sahi(authentic) narration from shia book:
محمد بن يعقوب عن علي بن ابراهيم عن ابيه عن ابن محبوب عن علي بن رئاب عن عبد صالح عليه السلام قال، ادع بهذا الدعاء في شهر رمضان مستقبل دخول السنة
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اللهم صل على القاسم والطاهر ابني نبيك، اللهم صل على رقية بنت نبيك والعن من آذى نبيك فيها، اللهم صل على ام كلثوم بنت نبيك
(source)
Muhammd b. Ya’qub from ‘Aliy b. Ibrahim from his father from ibn Mahbub from ‘Aliy b. Râ’ib from Abd Salih (peace be upon him) he said: Call with this prayer in the month of Ramadan in the future with the entrance of the year: O Allah send your blessings upon Qâsim and Tâhir sons of your Prophet, O Allah send your blessings upon Ruqayyah daughter of your prophet and curse those who hurt your Prophet through her, O Allah send your blessings upon Umm Kulthûm daughter of your Prophet. [Tahdhib al-Ahkam, Vol. 3, Pg. 106-122]
For more details:
https://youpuncturedtheark.wordpress.com/2010/10/11/how-many-daughters-did-prophetsaw-had/
The problem with literalists is that you guys often turn Wahhabi because of not using the intellect [`Aql]. Even the Quraanic verse of Mubahalah alludes to Imam Hasan (as) and Imam Husayn (as) as being sons of Prophet (saww).
Well, you yourself said, the verse of Mubahalah ALLUDES, whereas your hadeeth here it EXPLICITLY DECLARES, that Ruqayyah(AS) and Umm Kulthum(AS) were daughters of Prophet(SAWS). And had you used your brain you would have realized, that Hassan(AS) and Hussain(AS) were related through blood with Prophet(SAWS), so same goes for Ruqayyah(AS) and Umm Kulthum(AS).
But as the saying goes... Rafidah and wisdom are two banks of a river, which can never meet.
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I can't believe people would even dare compare the Abu Bakr (la) with Imam Husayn (as). Your own accursed Sunni leaders tried to kill our beloved Prophet (saww), from a Saheeh chain, according to the grading standards of Bukhari and Muslim:
http://www.revisitingthesalaf.org/2012/02/companions-attempt-to-kill-prophet.html
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I can't believe people would even dare compare the Abu Bakr (la) with Imam Husayn (as). Your own accursed Sunni leaders tried to kill our beloved Prophet (saww), from a Saheeh chain, according to the grading standards of Bukhari and Muslim:
http://www.revisitingthesalaf.org/2012/02/companions-attempt-to-kill-prophet.html
NavneenHussain - you're entitled to your opinion, but you're not allowed to curse any of the companions if you're going to stick around here.
Your post has been reported.
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Brother Naveen. Please see the refutation here:
http://twelvershia.net/2013/04/15/response-to-assassination-attempt-on-the-prophet-saw/
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DO NOT BAN THIS GUY, PLEASE! THAT IS WHAT HE WANTS.
He has shared the link for his debate on his Facebook page; in other words, he wants their help, but one of his sidekicks - instead of getting the hint - commented that he would not waste his time on debating with "sons of adultery"!
Naveen wants us to ban him so that he could go and tell his friends what a martyr he is and that he took one for the team. Don't let him off the hook so easy. The longer he stays here, the more painful we will make it for him. I can't say embarrassing because he has no shame.
You believe what the world has come to? Children of mutah are referring to others as "sons of adultery" :D
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Hussain (RA) is no one compared to Abu Bakr (RA) because Hussain (RA) played no key role during the rein of the Prophet (SAW). Abu Bakr's (RA) contribution to the established of Islam is unparalleled on any scale. The Qur'an (Allah), and authentic Sunnah (the Prophet) are Abu Bakr's witnesses as both pay testimony to the virtue of Abu Bakr (RA) over any other companion let alone Ahlul Bhayt (RA).
The virtue of Hussain (RA) in our literature(s) talk about how beloved he was to the Prophet (SAW), and he was too young anyway to play any signifcant role in laying the Islamic foundation where as Abu Bakr (RA) our Prophet (SAW) has pretty summed that he is ranked number 2 after himself. A big difference between paying homeage to how one feels about a person, and to the greatness of the other.
The article in question has been refuted. Check the main site for more details.
Since, you're committed to accepting Ahadiths on the condition of Bukhari, and Muslim then by the same admission are you willing to accept Ahadith directly narrted by the same Muhadiths praising the very people you're accussing of being assassins? ???
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Believing in fadhail of Abu bakr al khaddab is same as believing in two Gods. Both are false.
Actually there were people who took Ali as God, and they claimed they believed in him.
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Many have stated that the alleged daughters of Prophet (saww) are indeed the daughters of Khadeejah's sister. Veiled Nasibis? What about you open Nasibi Bakris [so-called Sunnis]?
Its in Najh Al Balagha where Imam Ali (as) tells Uthmaan (ra) he married the daughters of the Prophet (pbuh)
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Abu Bakr (ra) is praised in the Qur'an.
Do you reject the Qur'an or the praises that it bestows upon people?
(I'm referring to the verse where "the second of the two" is referred to as Sahib)
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If Abu Bakr was so great, why didn't he get any of the alleged daughters of Rasool (saww)?
If marrying a daughter of Rasulullah shallallahu alaihi wasallam equals greatness then will you say uthman RA greater than Ali RA?
Nope, because Fatimah (as) is said to be the leading woman of Jannah, and those alleged daughters of Rasool (saww) are disputed.
Your version of history is edited not disputed, just like how some shia deny Umm Kulthum bint Ali married Umar RA ;D
Besides what's the point you're trying to make to deny those marriages? Shia believe their father married 2 disbelievers or more. Shia doesnt have any sense