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Sunni Shia Discussion Forum => Sahabah-AhlulBayt => Topic started by: Optimus Prime on May 22, 2015, 06:16:06 PM

Title: Ali (RA) and Muawiyah (RA) were cousins?
Post by: Optimus Prime on May 22, 2015, 06:16:06 PM

Wasn't Abu Sufyan (RA) the son of Harb who was the first son of Abdul Mutalib? Thus making him a half-first cousin of the Prophet (SAW), AND Ali (RA)?

If so, then Muawiyah (RA) was a second cousin of Ali (RA)?

Title: Re: Ali (RA) and Muawiyah (RA) were cousins?
Post by: Farid on May 22, 2015, 07:07:58 PM

You are thinking of Abu Sufyan bin ALHARITH bin Abdulmutalib.

I've made the same mistake before. =)

However, all the people of Quraish are related. Hashim was the brother of Abd Shams, the father of Umayyah.

Title: Re: Ali (RA) and Muawiyah (RA) were cousins?
Post by: Optimus Prime on May 23, 2015, 01:10:21 AM

Quote from: Farid on May 22, 2015, 07:07:58 PM

You are thinking of Abu Sufyan bin ALHARITH bin Abdulmutalib.

I've made the same mistake before. =)

However, all the people of Quraish are related. Hashim was the brother of Abd Shams, the father of Umayyah.

Thanks for clarification. I knew that, but some relations are closer than others.

Farid, all the ancestry details of the Quraish, what is the "primary" source that confirms all this? Ibn Ishaq?

Title: Re: Ali (RA) and Muawiyah (RA) were cousins?
Post by: Farid on May 23, 2015, 02:09:30 AM

Ibn Ishaq is one of the primary sources. There are others like Al Waqidi, Ibn Al Kalbi, Al Zubair bin Bakkar, Mus'ab Al Zubairi, Al Adawi, and Musa bin Uqba.

Most of the sources for this sort of stuff are lost, but quotes from early sources can be found from late sources, often ones written in the seventh century and beyond.

Title: Re: Ali (RA) and Muawiyah (RA) were cousins?
Post by: Hani on May 23, 2015, 10:25:16 AM

In the eyes of the Arabs banu Umayyah and banu Hashim are cousins related by blood, but banu al-`Abbas and banu `Ali are closer cousins for example. It's not incorrect to call them cousins.

Title: Re: Ali (RA) and Muawiyah (RA) were cousins?
Post by: Optimus Prime on May 23, 2015, 04:51:34 PM

Quote from: Hani on May 23, 2015, 10:25:16 AM

In the eyes of the Arabs banu Umayyah and banu Hashim are cousins related by blood, but banu al-`Abbas and banu `Ali are closer cousins for example. It's not incorrect to call them cousins.

Hani, sorry. I don't geddit .

Banu Abbas, and Ali were separate tribes? How were they closer cousins?

Title: Re: Ali (RA) and Muawiyah (RA) were cousins?
Post by: Farid on May 23, 2015, 06:21:56 PM

Bro, see this family tree
http://www.al-imam.net/graphics/imagegallery/familytree.jpg

Title: Re: Ali (RA) and Muawiyah (RA) were cousins?
Post by: Optimus Prime on May 23, 2015, 08:11:55 PM

Brother Farid, is this accurate?

I thought the father of Abu Sufyan's (RA) was a direct descendant of Abdul Mutalib?