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Ammar r.a. & Uthman r.a.

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Muhammad Tazin

Ammar r.a. & Uthman r.a.
« on: November 21, 2016, 08:36:02 PM »
As Salamu Alaikum brothers & sisters.

I'm trying to solve the riddle between Ammar ibn Yasir r.a. & Uthman r.a. 
While reading Ibn Kathir's Al bidaya, I get some dialogues which might make one feel that, Ammar(r.a.) was in favour of killing/taking revenge of Uthman r.a. and he wasn't sad about murder of UThman r.a. -

1. here he makes reason for killing?
فرجع ابن عباس والأشتر إلى علي ، فأخبراه الخبر ، فأرسل الحسن وعمار بن ياسر ، وقال لعمار : انطلق فأصلح ما أفسدت . فانطلقا حتى دخلا المسجد فكان أول من سلم عليهما مسروق بن الأجدع ، فقال لعمار : علام قتلتم عثمان ؟ فقال : على شتم أعراضنا وضرب أبشارنا  .
Raw translation-
 Then ibn abbas & ashtar went to ALi and informed things. then Ali sent ammar & Hasan r.a. & said to Ammar- solve the fasad you've vreated.
Both of them (Ammar & Hasan r.a.) entered masjid of Kufa and at first Masruk ibn Ajda gave Salam to them.
Then he Asked Ammar(r.a.)- based upon what you've killed Uthman ?
Ammar replies- for insulting us and hurting our men.

2. Again here he says he wasn't sad about killing of Uthman r.a.-
 وخرج أبو موسى فلقي الحسن بن علي فضمه إليه ، وقال لعمار : يا أبا اليقظان أعدوت على أمير المؤمنين عثمان قتلته ؟ فقال : لم أفعل ولم يسؤني
Raw Tr-
Abu MUsa(r.a.) came out and met Hasan ibn ALi(r.a.) & embraced him. Then he asked Ammar r.a.-
"Ya Abal_Yakzan! Did you call for the murder of Uthman?"
Ammar replies- "I didn't do it and It didn't make me sad"

Maybe there are other sayings of Ammar r.a. which proves he wasn't among the Sabaaite rebels. But can anyone please solve this replies given by him to other sahaba?

link- http://library.islamweb.net/newlibrary/display_book.php?idfrom=845&idto=845&bk_no=59&ID=936

Farid

Re: Ammar r.a. & Uthman r.a.
« Reply #1 on: November 21, 2016, 09:36:22 PM »
Wa alaykum alsalam wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh,

I hope that you are well akhi. It has been a while. =]

Would you mind quoting Ibn Katheer's sources? He usually provides them.

ummahboard.com

Re: Ammar r.a. & Uthman r.a.
« Reply #2 on: November 21, 2016, 10:34:06 PM »
First there is no riddle to this.

Read what ibn taymiyyah says on the general topic of the differences on what happened between them.

Then put it into practice.

This is historic, it doesnt have a chain most of the time.

Then go to a scholar who can explain it to you.


zaid_ibn_ali

Re: Ammar r.a. & Uthman r.a.
« Reply #3 on: November 22, 2016, 03:24:36 AM »
See:

http://mahajjah.com/the-attitude-of-ammar-ibn-yasir/

It should clear up any doubts on the issue.

Muhammad Tazin

Re: Ammar r.a. & Uthman r.a.
« Reply #4 on: November 22, 2016, 11:05:57 AM »
Wa alaykum alsalam wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh,

I hope that you are well akhi. It has been a while. =]

Would you mind quoting Ibn Katheer's sources? He usually provides them.

I am fine, it's just troubles of life that keeps us away from studying deen.

I can't find the isnad in the online version. and also not in the printed copy (screenshot provided)


Muhammad Tazin

Re: Ammar r.a. & Uthman r.a.
« Reply #5 on: November 22, 2016, 11:09:16 AM »
and, there's another matter. I know that historical narrations are often very week and even without any chain.
But, when we generally just read from Tarikh books and use incidents to narrate to others, suddenly get stuck about some of these types of narrations

Hani

Re: Ammar r.a. & Uthman r.a.
« Reply #6 on: November 22, 2016, 09:24:23 PM »
Salam,

`Ammar, Ashtar and Muhammad bin Abu Bakr had big issues with `Uthman, they believed he deviated and bought much of the propaganda. `Uthman's relatives got him into trouble and the fact that he couldn't keep up with the very high standard set by the 3 men before him.

In one narration `Ammar, Ashtar and a few others criticized `Uthman that `Ali silenced them. You will find a good number of evidence that `Ammar and `Ali never agree with `Uthman's policies and how he ran the show, yet `Ali was much wiser and more careful in how he approached `Uthman, he helped him and tried many times to stop people from harming him.

Notice in the narration you yourself quoted, `Ali sends `Ammar and tells him: "Go fix this mess you caused." We can also see in the same narration that `Ammar had nothing to do with the killing of `Uthman even though he was so upset that he didn't feel sadness. `Ammar, `A'ishah and a number of Sahabah criticized `Uthman and that was the spark that ended with some fools killing him, `Ali criticized at the beginning but unlike others he stopped the moment he sensed that things could go downhill.
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

Imam Ali

Re: Ammar r.a. & Uthman r.a.
« Reply #7 on: November 22, 2016, 10:11:28 PM »
Salam,

`Ammar, Ashtar and Muhammad bin Abu Bakr had big issues with `Uthman, they believed he deviated and bought much of the propaganda. `Uthman's relatives got him into trouble and the fact that he couldn't keep up with the very high standard set by the 3 men before him.

In one narration `Ammar, Ashtar and a few others criticized `Uthman that `Ali silenced them. You will find a good number of evidence that `Ammar and `Ali never agree with `Uthman's policies and how he ran the show, yet `Ali was much wiser and more careful in how he approached `Uthman, he helped him and tried many times to stop people from harming him.

Notice in the narration you yourself quoted, `Ali sends `Ammar and tells him: "Go fix this mess you caused." We can also see in the same narration that `Ammar had nothing to do with the killing of `Uthman even though he was so upset that he didn't feel sadness. `Ammar, `A'ishah and a number of Sahabah criticized `Uthman and that was the spark that ended with some fools killing him, `Ali criticized at the beginning but unlike others he stopped the moment he sensed that things could go downhill.

So, are you saying all these historical narrations are sound? Or, that's how we would interpret the events if we were to accept them at face-value?

Muhammad Tazin

Re: Ammar r.a. & Uthman r.a.
« Reply #8 on: November 23, 2016, 06:58:12 PM »
Salam,

`Ammar, Ashtar and Muhammad bin Abu Bakr had big issues with `Uthman, they believed he deviated and bought much of the propaganda. `Uthman's relatives got him into trouble and the fact that he couldn't keep up with the very high standard set by the 3 men before him.

In one narration `Ammar, Ashtar and a few others criticized `Uthman that `Ali silenced them. You will find a good number of evidence that `Ammar and `Ali never agree with `Uthman's policies and how he ran the show, yet `Ali was much wiser and more careful in how he approached `Uthman, he helped him and tried many times to stop people from harming him.

Notice in the narration you yourself quoted, `Ali sends `Ammar and tells him: "Go fix this mess you caused." We can also see in the same narration that `Ammar had nothing to do with the killing of `Uthman even though he was so upset that he didn't feel sadness. `Ammar, `A'ishah and a number of Sahabah criticized `Uthman and that was the spark that ended with some fools killing him, `Ali criticized at the beginning but unlike others he stopped the moment he sensed that things could go downhill.

Thanks for analysing brother,
but, you are trying to say that Ammar saying لم أفعل ولم يسؤني means-  "even though he was so upset that he didn't feel sadness"

Hani

Re: Ammar r.a. & Uthman r.a.
« Reply #9 on: November 24, 2016, 12:53:54 AM »
He was upset that they murdered him unjustly but he didn't feel much sympathy for Uthman.
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

 

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