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Did Abu Huraira make up hadiths?

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confusedshia

Did Abu Huraira make up hadiths?
« on: November 04, 2017, 06:40:41 PM »
Salam,

According to a narration in Sahih al-Bukhari, Abu Huraira starts telling people a narration and begins by saying "the Prophet said". However, at the end of the report, he is asked whether these are really the words of the Prophet, and he responds by saying "no, it is from my own self".

How do Sunnis explain the above hadith which Shias say makes Abu Huraira a questionable authority to rely on?

https://sunnah.com/bukhari/69/5

Zlatan Ibrahimovic

Re: Did Abu Huraira make up hadiths?
« Reply #1 on: November 04, 2017, 06:54:35 PM »
Salam,

According to a narration in Sahih al-Bukhari, Abu Huraira starts telling people a narration and begins by saying "the Prophet said". However, at the end of the report, he is asked whether these are really the words of the Prophet, and he responds by saying "no, it is from my own self".

How do Sunnis explain the above hadith which Shias say makes Abu Huraira a questionable authority to rely on?

https://sunnah.com/bukhari/69/5

I guess they would argue that only one part of the quote is his - and the rest of the quote was his own words. And so when the people were asking him if this is the Prophet's words, they were asking him about the other quote.
محور المقاومة والممانعة

Abu Muhammad

Re: Did Abu Huraira make up hadiths?
« Reply #2 on: November 04, 2017, 07:01:06 PM »
I guess they would argue that only one part of the quote is his - and the rest of the quote was his own words. And so when the people were asking him if this is the Prophet's words, they were asking him about the other quote.

Exactly...


Salam,

According to a narration in Sahih al-Bukhari, Abu Huraira starts telling people a narration and begins by saying "the Prophet said". However, at the end of the report, he is asked whether these are really the words of the Prophet, and he responds by saying "no, it is from my own self".

How do Sunnis explain the above hadith which Shias say makes Abu Huraira a questionable authority to rely on?

https://sunnah.com/bukhari/69/5

Wa'alaikumussalam wa rahmatullah,
@confusedshia,

You quoted the following hadith:

Narrated Abu Huraira:  "The Prophet said, 'The best alms is that which is given when one is rich, and a giving hand is better than a taking one, and you should start first to support your dependents.' A wife says, 'You should either provide me with food or divorce me.' A slave says, 'Give me food and enjoy my service." A son says, "Give me food; to whom do you leave me?" The people said, "O Abu Huraira! Did you hear that from Allah's Apostle ?" He said, "No, it is from my own self."
[ Sahih Al-Bukhari , Chp 064 Supporting the Family , Hd No.268]

There is another hadith in Sahih Bukhari (Hadith no. 269), just next to the above hadith (Hadith no. 268) as follows:

Narrated Abu Huraira:

Allah's Apostle said, "The best alms is that which you give when you are rich, and you should start first to support your dependants."
(Sahih Al-Bukhari: Volume 7, Book 64, Number 269).

When you read Hadith 268 and 269 together, you can easily see that Hadith 268 composed of 2 parts:

Narrated Abu Huraira:

1st PART (shared by both hadiths 268 snd 269):
"The Prophet said, 'The best alms is that which is given when one is rich, and a giving hand is better than a taking one, and you should start first to support your dependents.'

2nd PART (only appears in hadith 268):
A wife says, 'You should either provide me with food or divorce me.' A slave says, 'Give me food and enjoy my service." A son says, "Give me food; to whom do you leave me?" The people said, "O Abu Huraira! Did you hear that from Allah's Apostle ?" He said, "No, it is from my own self."
(Sahih Al-Bukhari: Volume 7, Book 64, Number 268).

If anyone read the hadith as above, they could easily discern that the 1st part is from Rasulullah (saw) and the 2nd part is from Abu Huraira.

If you said that Hadith 269 and the 1st part of Hadith 268 was also fabricated by Abu Huraira, just to let you know that the hadith was also reported by another Sahabah by the name Hakim ibn Hizam i.e. they were corroborated:

Narrated by Hakim bin Hizam:

The Prophet said, "The Upper hand is better than the lower hand (i.e. he who gives in charity is better than him who takes it). One should start giving first to his dependents.
(Sahih Al-Bukhari: Volume 2, Book 24, Number 508)

That proves Hadith 269 and the 1st part of hadith 268 and is from Prophet (saw) and not fabricated by Abu Huraira whereas the 2nd part of Hadith 268 is from Abu Huraira as he said so.

Zlatan Ibrahimovic

Re: Did Abu Huraira make up hadiths?
« Reply #3 on: November 04, 2017, 07:37:27 PM »
Ha what a guess
محور المقاومة والممانعة

Farid

Re: Did Abu Huraira make up hadiths?
« Reply #4 on: November 04, 2017, 07:59:21 PM »
Wa alaykum alsalam wa rahmatullah,

This is common, not just with Abu Huraira.

When we go to the Friday sermon, shaikhs quote a hadith then comment on it. Listeners sometime assume that the comment is part of the hadith.

This happened with Al Saduq often. He quotes a hadith and comments on it. Late scholars point out that it is difficult to tell if it is his words at the end or a part of the hadith.

The best way to avoid this is by saying, "I say..." after finishing, however, this isn't practiced by all authors.

MuslimK

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iceman

Re: Did Abu Huraira make up hadiths?
« Reply #6 on: November 05, 2017, 06:51:28 PM »
Well one really needs to or should start from the beginning. When did Abu Hurairah accept Islam and how old was he? Does anyone know?

Abu Muhammad

Re: Did Abu Huraira make up hadiths?
« Reply #7 on: November 05, 2017, 06:59:40 PM »
@iceman,

Have a read before you start with "after Khaybar", "only for 3 years", etc...

http://www.twelvershia.net/2015/01/11/abu-huraira/

iceman

Re: Did Abu Huraira make up hadiths?
« Reply #8 on: November 06, 2017, 01:21:42 AM »
Are the following true?

Sahih Muslim, Book 32, Number 6293)  Salim, the freed slave of Nasriyyin, said:

"I heard Abu Huraira as saying that he heard Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: 'O Allah, Muhammad is a human being. I lose my temper just as human beings lose temper, and I have held a covenant with Thee which Thou wouldst not break: For a believer whom I give any trouble or invoke curse or beat, make that an expiation (of his sins and a source of) his nearness to Thee on the Day of Resurrection.' "   Abu Huraira should have been punished for gossiping such a horrible falsehood!

Sahih Bukhari ,Volume 1, Book 5, Number 274:  Narrated Abu Huraira: 

"Once the call (Iqama) for the prayer was announced and the rows were straightened. Allah's Apostle came out; and when he stood up on his prayer mat, he remembered that he was Junub. Then he ordered us to stay at our places and went to take a bath and then returned with water dropping from his head. He said, "Allahu-Akbar", and we all offered the prayer with him."


Farid

Re: Did Abu Huraira make up hadiths?
« Reply #9 on: November 06, 2017, 06:02:56 AM »
Quote
Sahih Muslim, Book 32, Number 6293)  Salim, the freed slave of Nasriyyin, said:

"I heard Abu Huraira as saying that he heard Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: 'O Allah, Muhammad is a human being. I lose my temper just as human beings lose temper, and I have held a covenant with Thee which Thou wouldst not break: For a believer whom I give any trouble or invoke curse or beat, make that an expiation (of his sins and a source of) his nearness to Thee on the Day of Resurrection.' "   Abu Huraira should have been punished for gossiping such a horrible falsehood!

Maybe Jabir Al-Ansari should be punished as well for narrating the same thing on the same exact page. If you do not like the content of a hadith, it does not mean that it is a fabrication. Also, these narrations include a chain with several narrators, so do not single out Abu Huraira as the culprit without evidence.




Hadrami

Re: Did Abu Huraira make up hadiths?
« Reply #10 on: November 06, 2017, 06:06:04 AM »
is confusedshia just a troll? Theres so many topics started but he/she hardly involved in discussion

Hani

Re: Did Abu Huraira make up hadiths?
« Reply #11 on: November 06, 2017, 06:30:44 AM »
Don't accuse without proof. He asks we answer, that is all.
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

iceman

Re: Did Abu Huraira make up hadiths?
« Reply #12 on: November 06, 2017, 01:19:28 PM »
Quote
Sahih Muslim, Book 32, Number 6293)  Salim, the freed slave of Nasriyyin, said:

"I heard Abu Huraira as saying that he heard Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: 'O Allah, Muhammad is a human being. I lose my temper just as human beings lose temper, and I have held a covenant with Thee which Thou wouldst not break: For a believer whom I give any trouble or invoke curse or beat, make that an expiation (of his sins and a source of) his nearness to Thee on the Day of Resurrection.' "   Abu Huraira should have been punished for gossiping such a horrible falsehood!

Maybe Jabir Al-Ansari should be punished as well for narrating the same thing on the same exact page. If you do not like the content of a hadith, it does not mean that it is a fabrication. Also, these narrations include a chain with several narrators, so do not single out Abu Huraira as the culprit without evidence.

DON'T GET PERSONAL. GET A GRIP ON YOURSELF. I asked if they were true. Basically I asked for the opinion of others. SO CALM DOWN. read and think before you speak.

iceman

Re: Did Abu Huraira make up hadiths?
« Reply #13 on: November 06, 2017, 01:42:56 PM »
What are your thoughts and opinions concerning the following; 

There are 5,374 hadiths narrated through Abu Hurayrah. The renown compiler Al-Bukhari, the most famous compiler of hadīth, who endorses no more than 93 of them! Muslim, another compiler of hadīth, endorses only 89 of Abū Hurayrah's alleged hadiths. The reader can easily conclude that this figure of 5,374 “traditions” is quite unrealistic when he comes to know that Abu Bakr, friend of the Prophet (s) and one of the earliest converts to Islam, narrated no more than 142 traditions. Omar narrated no more than 537 traditions. Usman narrated no more than 146 traditions.

And Ali the man who was raised by the Prophet (s) and who was always with him, following him like his shadow for 32 years, and whose memory and integrity nobody at all can question, narrated no more than 586 traditions.

All these men, especially Ali and Abu Bakr, spent many years of their lives in the company of the Prophet (s) and did not hide when their lives were in jeopardy, as is the case with Abu Hurayrah, yet they did not narrate except a tiny fraction of the number of “traditions,” many of which cannot be accepted by logic and commonsense, narrated by or attributed to Abu Hurayrah

zaid_ibn_ali

Re: Did Abu Huraira make up hadiths?
« Reply #14 on: November 06, 2017, 02:30:39 PM »
What are your thoughts and opinions concerning the following; 

There are 5,374 hadiths narrated through Abu Hurayrah. The renown compiler Al-Bukhari, the most famous compiler of hadīth, who endorses no more than 93 of them! Muslim, another compiler of hadīth, endorses only 89 of Abū Hurayrah's alleged hadiths. The reader can easily conclude that this figure of 5,374 “traditions” is quite unrealistic when he comes to know that Abu Bakr, friend of the Prophet (s) and one of the earliest converts to Islam, narrated no more than 142 traditions. Omar narrated no more than 537 traditions. Usman narrated no more than 146 traditions.

And Ali the man who was raised by the Prophet (s) and who was always with him, following him like his shadow for 32 years, and whose memory and integrity nobody at all can question, narrated no more than 586 traditions.

All these men, especially Ali and Abu Bakr, spent many years of their lives in the company of the Prophet (s) and did not hide when their lives were in jeopardy, as is the case with Abu Hurayrah, yet they did not narrate except a tiny fraction of the number of “traditions,” many of which cannot be accepted by logic and commonsense, narrated by or attributed to Abu Hurayrah

I've read that its around 1500 hadiths without repetition that Abu Huraira narrates.

Thats a lot less than 40,000 that a certain kufan narrates from your Imams lol

Farid

Re: Did Abu Huraira make up hadiths?
« Reply #15 on: November 06, 2017, 03:16:10 PM »
Quote
All these men, especially Ali and Abu Bakr, spent many years of their lives in the company of the Prophet (s) and did not hide when their lives were in jeopardy, as is the case with Abu Hurayrah, yet they did not narrate except a tiny fraction of the number of “traditions,” many of which cannot be accepted by logic and commonsense, narrated by or attributed to Abu Hurayrah

Indeed. He didn't narrate 5000+ narrations. This number is based on a lost book that collects his narrations with repetitions. Al Bukhari and Muslim quotes a much smaller number which also suggests that much of what is attributed to him is false.


iceman

Re: Did Abu Huraira make up hadiths?
« Reply #16 on: November 06, 2017, 08:07:19 PM »
What are your thoughts and opinions concerning the following; 

There are 5,374 hadiths narrated through Abu Hurayrah. The renown compiler Al-Bukhari, the most famous compiler of hadīth, who endorses no more than 93 of them! Muslim, another compiler of hadīth, endorses only 89 of Abū Hurayrah's alleged hadiths. The reader can easily conclude that this figure of 5,374 “traditions” is quite unrealistic when he comes to know that Abu Bakr, friend of the Prophet (s) and one of the earliest converts to Islam, narrated no more than 142 traditions. Omar narrated no more than 537 traditions. Usman narrated no more than 146 traditions.

And Ali the man who was raised by the Prophet (s) and who was always with him, following him like his shadow for 32 years, and whose memory and integrity nobody at all can question, narrated no more than 586 traditions.

All these men, especially Ali and Abu Bakr, spent many years of their lives in the company of the Prophet (s) and did not hide when their lives were in jeopardy, as is the case with Abu Hurayrah, yet they did not narrate except a tiny fraction of the number of “traditions,” many of which cannot be accepted by logic and commonsense, narrated by or attributed to Abu Hurayrah

I've read that its around 1500 hadiths without repetition that Abu Huraira narrates.

Thats a lot less than 40,000 that a certain kufan narrates from your Imams lol

Do you have to make everything personal?☺

zaid_ibn_ali

Re: Did Abu Huraira make up hadiths?
« Reply #17 on: November 06, 2017, 08:40:21 PM »
What are your thoughts and opinions concerning the following; 

There are 5,374 hadiths narrated through Abu Hurayrah. The renown compiler Al-Bukhari, the most famous compiler of hadīth, who endorses no more than 93 of them! Muslim, another compiler of hadīth, endorses only 89 of Abū Hurayrah's alleged hadiths. The reader can easily conclude that this figure of 5,374 “traditions” is quite unrealistic when he comes to know that Abu Bakr, friend of the Prophet (s) and one of the earliest converts to Islam, narrated no more than 142 traditions. Omar narrated no more than 537 traditions. Usman narrated no more than 146 traditions.

And Ali the man who was raised by the Prophet (s) and who was always with him, following him like his shadow for 32 years, and whose memory and integrity nobody at all can question, narrated no more than 586 traditions.

All these men, especially Ali and Abu Bakr, spent many years of their lives in the company of the Prophet (s) and did not hide when their lives were in jeopardy, as is the case with Abu Hurayrah, yet they did not narrate except a tiny fraction of the number of “traditions,” many of which cannot be accepted by logic and commonsense, narrated by or attributed to Abu Hurayrah

I've read that its around 1500 hadiths without repetition that Abu Huraira narrates.

Thats a lot less than 40,000 that a certain kufan narrates from your Imams lol

Do you have to make everything personal?☺

I'm simply saying whats the big deal. 5,000<40,000 😃

iceman

Re: Did Abu Huraira make up hadiths?
« Reply #18 on: November 07, 2017, 03:49:44 AM »
What are your thoughts and opinions concerning the following; 

There are 5,374 hadiths narrated through Abu Hurayrah. The renown compiler Al-Bukhari, the most famous compiler of hadīth, who endorses no more than 93 of them! Muslim, another compiler of hadīth, endorses only 89 of Abū Hurayrah's alleged hadiths. The reader can easily conclude that this figure of 5,374 “traditions” is quite unrealistic when he comes to know that Abu Bakr, friend of the Prophet (s) and one of the earliest converts to Islam, narrated no more than 142 traditions. Omar narrated no more than 537 traditions. Usman narrated no more than 146 traditions.

And Ali the man who was raised by the Prophet (s) and who was always with him, following him like his shadow for 32 years, and whose memory and integrity nobody at all can question, narrated no more than 586 traditions.

All these men, especially Ali and Abu Bakr, spent many years of their lives in the company of the Prophet (s) and did not hide when their lives were in jeopardy, as is the case with Abu Hurayrah, yet they did not narrate except a tiny fraction of the number of “traditions,” many of which cannot be accepted by logic and commonsense, narrated by or attributed to Abu Hurayrah

I've read that its around 1500 hadiths without repetition that Abu Huraira narrates.

Thats a lot less than 40,000 that a certain kufan narrates from your Imams lol

Do you have to make everything personal?☺

I'm simply saying whats the big deal. 5,000<40,000 😃

If still you ask such a question then let him be your HERO HADITHER! 😊 But what have our Imams got to do with it. You seem to mention and bring them in to everything. You seem to be mentioning them more than us.😃

muslim720

Re: Did Abu Huraira make up hadiths?
« Reply #19 on: November 07, 2017, 05:29:36 AM »

There are 5,374 hadiths narrated through Abu Hurayrah.

And Ali.....narrated no more than 586 traditions.

Getting rid of the unnecessary stuff and focusing on your main point - let us be honest, what do you care if Abu Huraira (ra) narrated more than Abu Bakr (ra), Umar (ra) and Uthman (ra); you only cannot stomach that we have gathered more from him than from Imam Ali (ra) - we still consider Imam Ali (ra), as well as the previous three (ra), to be higher in status than Abu Huraira (ra).  We do not play favorites when it comes to collecting Sunnah.  If only you Shias could internalize that instead of submitting to your own desires and choosing your own ego over the generation that the Prophet (saw) declared to be the best.

 

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