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Did Imam Ali name one of his sons Abu Bakr?

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confusedshia

Did Imam Ali name one of his sons Abu Bakr?
« on: September 22, 2017, 06:33:14 PM »
Salam,

Can it be proven with "sahih" reports that Imam Ali named one of his sons Abu Bakr or are all these reports just unverified historical accounts?

Also, what is the response to the Shias who claim that "Abu Bakr" was just a qunya not an actual name that Imam Ali could have given his son?

GreatChineseFall

Re: Did Imam Ali name one of his sons Abu Bakr?
« Reply #1 on: September 22, 2017, 10:10:50 PM »
Also, what is the response to the Shias who claim that "Abu Bakr" was just a qunya not an actual name that Imam Ali could have given his son?

Salam, if that was the case, then early Shia's wouldn't feel the need and the urge to lie and try to explain why Imam Ali named his son Abu Bakr:

Quote
Then Muawiyah wrote a letter to Amirul Mumineen (a.s.). ("If what you said, claimed and made your companions witness it, is true then Abu Bakr, Umar, Uthman, and all Muhajireen and Ansar have been doomed, except you, your ahlulbayt and your Shias.

It has come to my knowledge that you pray for mercy on them and seek forgiveness for them. There can be two reasons for this - there is no third one except these two. Either it is Taqayah if you have borne enmity towards them, then you fear that your army with whom you are fighting against me does not leave you, or it is that whatever you have said and claimed is untrue and a lie. It has also come to my knowledge from a person whom you trust and is one of your special ones, that you tell your misguided Shias and those people who are very close to you but are bad people, that "I have named my three sons Abu Bakr, Umar and Uthman - when you hear from me that I am praying for anyone of the misguided imams, then I mean my sons by that".

What a genius, killing two birds with one stone. On the one hand explaining why he prayed for mercy for Abu Bakr, Umar and Uthman after their deaths, on the other hand explaining why he named his sons after them. I couldn't have invented this.

Abu Muhammad

Re: Did Imam Ali name one of his sons Abu Bakr?
« Reply #2 on: September 23, 2017, 01:22:54 PM »
Salam,

Can it be proven with "sahih" reports that Imam Ali named one of his sons Abu Bakr or are all these reports just unverified historical accounts?

Also, what is the response to the Shias who claim that "Abu Bakr" was just a qunya not an actual name that Imam Ali could have given his son?

Not only that. Even your 2nd Imam, Al-Hasan Ibn Ali had a son named Abu Bakr as stated in your book "Maqtal Al-Hussein" by Abu Mikhnaf.


MuslimK

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Re: Did Imam Ali name one of his sons Abu Bakr?
« Reply #3 on: September 23, 2017, 03:49:31 PM »
در خلافت میل نیست ای بی‌خبر
میل کی آید ز بوبکر و عمر
میل اگر بودی در آن دو مقتدا
هر دو کردندی پسر را پیشوا

عطار نِیشابوری

www.Nahjul-Balagha.net | www.TwelverShia.net | www.ghadirkhumm.com

confusedshia

Re: Did Imam Ali name one of his sons Abu Bakr?
« Reply #4 on: September 23, 2017, 03:57:12 PM »
Walaikum Salam,

Check the end of this article:

http://www.twelvershia.net/2013/05/02/after-who-ahlul-bayt-named-their-children/

Thanks. I get it now, Arabs were given a name, qunya, and a title. However, after reading more, some Shia scholars claim that there are no sahih reports of Imam Ali being the person that gave his son the qunya Abu Bakr, and there are also no sahih reports of him having this qunya in the first place. So how can unverified historical accounts be a hujja upon the Shia?

Farid

Re: Did Imam Ali name one of his sons Abu Bakr?
« Reply #5 on: September 23, 2017, 09:14:26 PM »
I believe that it is problematic to deny the existence of Abu Bakr bin Ali. Early Sunni and Shia scholars both affirm his existence, and I am not aware of any scholarly rejection. If such a man never existed, Shia scholars would be the first to deny him.

Yeah, I'm also not aware of his Kunya being given to him by his father. However, it doesn't change the fact that Ali had a son that accepted this Kunya onto himself, and wasn't one that he hated.

Hani

Re: Did Imam Ali name one of his sons Abu Bakr?
« Reply #6 on: September 24, 2017, 02:35:33 AM »
Walaikum Salam,

Check the end of this article:

http://www.twelvershia.net/2013/05/02/after-who-ahlul-bayt-named-their-children/

Thanks. I get it now, Arabs were given a name, qunya, and a title. However, after reading more, some Shia scholars claim that there are no sahih reports of Imam Ali being the person that gave his son the qunya Abu Bakr, and there are also no sahih reports of him having this qunya in the first place. So how can unverified historical accounts be a hujja upon the Shia?

Not only was his Kuniyah Abu Bakr, but his name was `Abdullah. This is identical to the first Caliph, his Kuniyah was Abu Bakr and his name was `Abdullah. This is NOT A COINCIDENCE.

As for how Arabs use names and refer to eachother, let's take Husayn's son `Ali as an example:

Name: `Ali
Teknonym: Ibn al-Husayn
Patronym: Abu al-Hasan
Title(s): Al-Sajjad, Zayn-ul-`Abidin
Surname(s): Al-Hashimi, al-Qurashi

Take the first Caliph and it becomes as follows:

Name: `Abdullah
Teknonym: Ibn `Uthman
Patronym: Abu Bakr
Title(s): Al-Siddiq, `Atiq
Surname(s): Al-Taymi, al-Qurashi
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

 

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