Did the Sahabah All Fight Each Other?

[iceman]

"Alhamdulilah!  Let me know how often you lose sleep over my bitterness and I'll offer extra nawaafil"

Absolutely and my pleasure. I lose sleep all the time, so if could offer extra nawaafil all the time and everytime then that would be great.

You would engage in Worship which will give you Sawaab and I will get Sawaab for getting you to engage in something useful and positive. Win win situation 😀

[muslim720]

That's how you see it with your narrow mind. Open up your mind and this is how you will see it. Just as Ali, Hassan became the fifth RIGHTLY GUIDED CALIPH OF THE MUSLIMS. Now Hassan could have kept his stance as being recognised as the RIGHTLY GUIDED CALIPH going just as Ali did.

As we can see, rabbit, you are trying hard to pull me down a rabbit hole by putting forth many desperate posts.  Rest assured, you will faint once cornered!

We are not playing by our standards but by yours.  If Imams (ra) know everything in the future (which is your belief) then Imam Hassan (ra) - for entrusting Muawiya with the affairs of Ummah - shares the blame for everything Muawiya and Yazeed did, including the killing of Imam Hussain (ra). 

Hassan being the bigger and better man handed over Caliphate to Muawiya on conditions.

Going by your beliefs, why did the "bigger and better man" hand over the Caliphate to Muawiya when he knew what was in Muawiya's heart and that Muawiya would violate those conditions?  To me, such an explanation pins the blood of Imam Hussain (ra) on none other than Imam Hassan (ra) for if the "bigger and better man" stayed in power, Yazeed would have never get to sit on the throne.

Will you dare address that point?

Caliphate which was so dear and beautiful to Muawiya that he would continue with his confrontational stance and keep shedding blood. What Hassan did is exactly what Imamah is all about and that is to protect and defend the message and have the welfare of Islam and the benefit of the Muslims at hand.

Good for Muawiya!  The world was beautified to him and he enjoyed the best of the world to the fullest.  On the other hand, your Imams (ra) could not even enjoy their "Divinely Ordained Right".  And for snatching what was "Divinely Ordained" for your Imams (ra), I'd say Muawiya was a "bigger and better man".  After all, Muawiya alone offset the power of your 12 "infallible", "Divinely Guided and Ordained" Imams (ra).

Muawiya = 7; Imams = 0!

Ali did what was right at the time and when Muawiya's stance was open and recognised then Hassan looked at that and brought it into account and did what was right and what needed to be done.

Here we go again!  Imam Hassan (ra) knew Muawiya's stance and he still entrusted him with the affairs of the Ummah.  Therefore, I blame Imam Hassan (ra) for all the miseries that proceeded.  Wouldn't you?

OVERPOWERED? OK, According to your ridiculous understanding then, Astaghfirullah, Iblees overpowered God.

Talk about misplaced analogies!  Yes, Muawiya overpowered your 2nd "infallible" Imam (ra) and muscled him out of his "Divinely Ordained Right".  And your 2nd "infallible" Imam (ra), despite knowing Muawiya's love for the world and his intention to break all the conditions, gave the Caliphate to Muawiya. 

Wouldn't you blame Imam Hassan (ra) for allowing such a person to rule the Muslims?  I would!  That is, if I accept your pathetic excuses and incoherent beliefs.

Ok, so she definitely knew who the killers of Usman were. Why is there no statement and action on her behalf in history of Islam for bringing the killers to justice?

Only in your feeble mind, the situation plays out in slow motion.  A crowd rushes the home of Uthman (ra), with possibly covered faces, and you want to know why his wife did not positively identify them.  As though they were walking with their ID cards hanging from a lanyard around their necks.

Absolutely and my pleasure. I lose sleep all the time, so if could offer extra nawaafil all the time and everytime then that would be great.

You would engage in Worship which will give you Sawaab and I will get Sawaab for getting you to engage in something useful and positive. Win win situation

Anytime I cause you to lose sleep is extra sawaab for me! 

[Mythbuster1]

 (e-Shias) 😂👍

But yes Muawiyah had influence and support and he definitely continued with his confrontational stance. Hassan decided to end the bloodshed but Muawiyah wished to continue it regardless. Hassan being the bigger and better man handed over Caliphate to Muawiya on conditions.

Caliphate which was so dear and beautiful to Muawiya that he would continue with his confrontational stance and keep shedding blood. What Hassan did is exactly what Imamah is all about and that is to protect and defend the message and have the welfare of Islam and the benefit of the Muslims at hand.

Ali did what was right at the time and when Muawiya's stance was open and recognised then Hassan looked at that and brought it into account and did what was right and what needed to be done.

BANG goes the promotion 😂

So.......basically a DIVINELY ordained right the part you get automatic promotion with a HIGHER status than nabuwwah the most important title that Allah swt can give...........Ameer Muawiya ra TOOK it, lol this is PURE stupidity, infact he didn’t take it......it was GIVEN to him, a divinely ordained title was given up to a killer? Yet Hussein ra never did and never thought twice of sacrificing his family and saving Islam?

This is A simple mindset of the average Shiite.......what Allah swt gives imams as promotions the darn Sunni leader takes it off them and rules himself........killing off the divine Imamate with their Sunni caliphate. Boo hoo hoo.

This is how stupid divine imamate theory really is.👍

Nightmares of saqifa won’t go away easily for you it’s a reality you can’t deal with, look at your posts saqifa has killed off divinity Imamate crap cos it’s just heresay and false whispers with no reality or proofs. Alhamdulillah.

[Mythbuster1]

"Right!  And according to authentic history, Muawiya overpowered your 2nd "infallible" Imam (ra) and had him surrender his "Divinely Ordained Right"

OVERPOWERED? OK, According to your ridiculous understanding then, Astaghfirullah, Iblees overpowered God. When Iblees refused to Bow to Adam on God's orders and God kicked him out then why did Allah alow and give into the demands of Iblees?

I'll comment further on this. Do ponder over it.

Lol this is the mentality of an e Shiite lol

Don’t comment further you already are on the verge of ridiculousness lol

E Shiite your imams were given super powers and their role was as leaders like Hassan ra but they just gave it up to let killers rule..........your comparing that to shaitaan??? 😂😂😂😂😂

in your understanding iblees “OVERPOWERED” Allah swt??
Are you stupid? How can a creation overpower his creator? Have you any examples in history or any solid evidences?

Saqifa really has messed up your head e Shiite lol

Shaitaan overpowering Allah swt???.......OMG where do you learn such nonsense from???

Ibn saba?

[Mythbuster1]

Lol at the stupidity!

Can a prophet give up His title or role?
NO

Can a divinely appointed imam much HIGHER than prophets after promotion give up His role or title?
YES

O M G!!!!!

You have to be thick as a plank of wood to believe such nonsense.

How far deep does the rabbit hole go?

[Mythbuster1]

First imam couldn’t do anything cos of internal problems

Second imam gave up leadership divine leadership to a killer

Third one wanted to give bayah to another but was martyred instead

Yet you will use promotion of Ibrahim as as an example of divine Imamate?

Ibrahim as was in a big fire and Allah swt ordered the fire not to hurt His KHALIL!!!

Yet imams are higher and Allah swt will let them be humiliated their leadership get usurped and they get killed??

What bloody promotion is that???

Allah swt protects prophets (as with prophet Ibrahim as and the fire) but once you pass your test and get promoted then Allah swt doesn’t help you ( like imams being killed and never ruling).

You pass your test Allah swt helps you in your tasks but when you do pass the promotion.........Allah swt forsakes you and lets killers overpower you makes you into cowards who cannot defend their own wives and makes you run away from killers to be hidden.

Divine Imamate in a nutshell

Alhamdulillah

[iceman]

Allah creates Adam and then asks the Angels to bow to Adam. They bow apart from Iblees. He refuses and becomes a disbeliever. Allah banishes him but Satan puts his demands forward. Why did Allah do that? Why did Allah grant him power to assist in leading mankind astray?

The Lord said: "Then get out of here; you are rejected, and there shall be a curse upon you till the Day of Recompense."

Iblis said: "My Lord! Grant me respite till the Day when they will be resurrected."

Allah said: "For sure you are granted respite until the day of a known time." WHY? Why didn't Allah just do away with him Muslim 720?

Why did Allah grant him respite despite knowing his intentions and what he is going to do? Why didn't Allah protect the offspring of Adam? Allah created Adam and mankind began, wasn't it Allah's duty to protect mankind?

Iblis said: "My Lord! In the manner You led me to error, I will make things on earth seem attractive to them and lead all of them to error, except those of Your servants whom You have singled out for Yourself."

The above were the intentions of Iblees but still Allah refused to protect mankind, why Muslim 720?

Allah said: "Here is the path that leads straight to Me. Over My true servants you will be able to exercise no power, your power will be confined to the erring ones, those who choose to follow you. Surely Hell is the promised place for all of them."

Why didn't Allah protect everyone especially the weak and vulnerable Muslim 720? Or may be the others who have jumped on your bandwagon can elaborate? I'm just showing you your ideology and thinking but through the mirror 😊

[iceman]

Here's another one based on your ideology and thinking Muslim 720.

NOAH was the Prophet of God. How many years did he preach? How many people did he make believe? Would you say that it was Noah's fault and he was to blame for the Ummah to be drowned by the floods because he didn't succeed in making people believe? Or would you say that God was to blame because he refused to help Noah to succeed in making people believe? Just showing you your ideology and thinking but through the mirror again.

[iceman]

First imam couldn’t do anything cos of internal problems

Second imam gave up leadership divine leadership to a killer

Third one wanted to give bayah to another but was martyred instead

Yet you will use promotion of Ibrahim as as an example of divine Imamate?

Ibrahim as was in a big fire and Allah swt ordered the fire not to hurt His KHALIL!!!

Yet imams are higher and Allah swt will let them be humiliated their leadership get usurped and they get killed??

What bloody promotion is that???

Allah swt protects prophets (as with prophet Ibrahim as and the fire) but once you pass your test and get promoted then Allah swt doesn’t help you ( like imams being killed and never ruling).

You pass your test Allah swt helps you in your tasks but when you do pass the promotion.........Allah swt forsakes you and lets killers overpower you makes you into cowards who cannot defend their own wives and makes you run away from killers to be hidden.

Divine Imamate in a nutshell

Alhamdulillah

"First imam couldn’t do anything cos of internal problems"

It depends what you mean and think about doing. Use of force or violence and threatening behaviour isn't part of Imamah but has been of certain Companions be in Caliphate or not. It was down to the Ummah what they wanted and how they behaved. Even Allah doesn't do anything if you don't care.

"Second imam gave up leadership divine leadership to a killer"

To put an end to the bloodshed and mayhem caused by him. Otherwise he would have continued with his ruthless confrontational stance. He didn't care how many lives were lost and how many more will be. And what exactly did the Prophet s.a.w say which is in your authentic books about this second Imam?😊

Abu Bakrah reported: I saw the Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, upon the pulpit and with him was Al-Hasan. He would turn to the people and turn to Al-Hasan and he said, “Verily, this son of mine is a chief, so Allah will make peace between two large groups of Muslims through him.”

Source: Sunan An-Nasa’i 1410, Sahih Bukhari 2557

Grade: Sahih (authentic) according to Al-Bukhari

Ibn Kathir said, “This is exactly what has happened.”

Source: Al-Bidayah wa-Nihayah

أَبَا بَكْرَةَ يَقُولُ لَقَدْ رَأَيْتُ رَسُولَ اللَّهِ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ عَلَى الْمِنْبَرِ وَالْحَسَنُ مَعَهُ وَهُوَ يُقْبِلُ عَلَى النَّاسِ مَرَّةً وَعَلَيْهِ مَرَّةً وَيَقُولُ إِنَّ ابْنِي هَذَا سَيِّدٌ وَلَعَلَّ اللَّهَ أَنْ يُصْلِحَ بِهِ بَيْنَ فِئَتَيْنِ مِنْ الْمُسْلِمِينَ عَظِيمَتَيْنِ

1410 سنن النسائي كِتَاب الْجُمْعَةِ إن ابني هذا سيد ولعل الله أن يصلح به بين فئتين من المسلمين عظيمتين

2557 صحيح البخاري كِتَاب الصُّلْحِ بَاب قَوْلِ النَّبِيِّ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ لِلْحَسَنِ بْنِ عَلِيٍّ رَضِيَ اللَّهُ عَنْهُمَا ابْنِي هَذَا سَيِّدٌ

قال ابن كثير وَهَكَذَا وَقَعَ

البداية والنهاية كتاب الفتن والملاحم وأشراط الساعة والأمور العظام يوم القيامة

[iceman]

"Third one wanted to give bayah to another but was martyred instead"

So who was this other and what is your stance on your sixth Caliph of the Muslims  Yazeed ibn Muawiya? Do you also praise and honour him like his father boys?

"Yet you will use promotion of Ibrahim as as an example of divine Imamate?"

Rather than yapping on about it what's your stance? Was Abraham promoted, was he demoted or given a title of a similar nature and grade? 😊 Come on lads, why are you so hesitant and shy to answer?

"Yet imams are higher and Allah swt will let them be humiliated their leadership get usurped and they get killed??"

Mankind is also classified as the best of creation (Ashraf e Makhlookat) but Allah allowed Satan to toy and play with this superior Makhlooq rather than protecting it. Just showing you your ideology and thinking but through the mirror😊

"Allah swt protects prophets (as with prophet Ibrahim as and the fire) but once you pass your test and get promoted then Allah swt doesn’t help you ( like imams being killed and never ruling)"

Certain Messengers and Prophets have also been killed through and by mankind when Allah sent them for their guidance. I will show you proof from the Qur'an. I wonder why Allah didn't protect and save them.

"Divine Imamate in a nutshell"

More like your narrow minded and locked ideology and thinking in a nutshell 😊

[iceman]

Lol at the stupidity!

Can a prophet give up His title or role?
NO

Can a divinely appointed imam much HIGHER than prophets after promotion give up His role or title?
YES

O M G!!!!!

You have to be thick as a plank of wood to believe such nonsense.

How far deep does the rabbit hole go?

Can a prophet give up His title or role?
NO

Can a divinely appointed imam much HIGHER than prophets after promotion give up His role or title?
Yes

Correction NO. Don't confuse IMAMAH with your so called CALIPHATE which completely collapsed and washed away and is no where to be seen or heard of.
O M G!!!!!

You have to be thick as a plank of wood to believe such nonsense.

How far deep does the rabbit hole go?

ABSOLUTELY 😊

[iceman]

Lol this is the mentality of an e Shiite lol

Don’t comment further you already are on the verge of ridiculousness lol

E Shiite your imams were given super powers and their role was as leaders like Hassan ra but they just gave it up to let killers rule..........your comparing that to shaitaan??? 😂😂😂😂😂

in your understanding iblees “OVERPOWERED” Allah swt??
Are you stupid? How can a creation overpower his creator? Have you any examples in history or any solid evidences?

Saqifa really has messed up your head e Shiite lol

Shaitaan overpowering Allah swt???.......OMG where do you learn such nonsense from???

Ibn saba?

Don't pick a piece out of the post and try and give it your own meaning and understanding like the disbelievers. Saqifa didn't mess up my head but actually messed up the Ummah and your belief which depends on it.

[Mythbuster1]

"First imam couldn’t do anything cos of internal problems"

It depends what you mean and think about doing. Use of force or violence and threatening behaviour isn't part of Imamah but has been of certain Companions be in Caliphate or not. It was down to the Ummah what they wanted and how they behaved. Even Allah doesn't do anything if you don't care.

"Second imam gave up leadership divine leadership to a killer"

To put an end to the bloodshed and mayhem caused by him. Otherwise he would have continued with his ruthless confrontational stance. He didn't care how many lives were lost and how many more will be. And what exactly did the Prophet s.a.w say which is in your authentic books about this second Imam?😊

Abu Bakrah reported: I saw the Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, upon the pulpit and with him was Al-Hasan. He would turn to the people and turn to Al-Hasan and he said, “Verily, this son of mine is a chief, so Allah will make peace between two large groups of Muslims through him.”

Source: Sunan An-Nasa’i 1410, Sahih Bukhari 2557

Grade: Sahih (authentic) according to Al-Bukhari

Ibn Kathir said, “This is exactly what has happened.”

Source: Al-Bidayah wa-Nihayah

أَبَا بَكْرَةَ يَقُولُ لَقَدْ رَأَيْتُ رَسُولَ اللَّهِ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ عَلَى الْمِنْبَرِ وَالْحَسَنُ مَعَهُ وَهُوَ يُقْبِلُ عَلَى النَّاسِ مَرَّةً وَعَلَيْهِ مَرَّةً وَيَقُولُ إِنَّ ابْنِي هَذَا سَيِّدٌ وَلَعَلَّ اللَّهَ أَنْ يُصْلِحَ بِهِ بَيْنَ فِئَتَيْنِ مِنْ الْمُسْلِمِينَ عَظِيمَتَيْنِ

1410 سنن النسائي كِتَاب الْجُمْعَةِ إن ابني هذا سيد ولعل الله أن يصلح به بين فئتين من المسلمين عظيمتين

2557 صحيح البخاري كِتَاب الصُّلْحِ بَاب قَوْلِ النَّبِيِّ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ لِلْحَسَنِ بْنِ عَلِيٍّ رَضِيَ اللَّهُ عَنْهُمَا ابْنِي هَذَا سَيِّدٌ

قال ابن كثير وَهَكَذَا وَقَعَ

البداية والنهاية كتاب الفتن والملاحم وأشراط الساعة والأمور العظام يوم القيامة

Meaning the first imam had His own internal problems, He bypassed nabuwwah to be promoted straight to imamah yet His role was full of internal turmoil tha Allah swt left it to the people........yet Allah swt always intervened for His prophets especially the example I gave of Ibrahim as and the fire.

Alhamdulillah

He Hassan ra United two great armies.
He didn’t however believe or think that He was giving it to a cold blooded killer who was killing just for power or like some of your kind think even worse of Him ra, it was simple the Shiites were cowards, the Shiites wouldn’t fight so Hassan fulfilled the prophecy Alhamdulillah.
It has NOTHING to do with divine Imamate in any sense or form because a prophet wouldn’t give up His authority to no man......yet a person higher than a prophet can?!??

I notice you bring out sources as if they agree with you somehow lol ........they don’t they confirm what I just wrote especially nothing to do with some divine Imamate idea.

[Mythbuster1]

"Third one wanted to give bayah to another but was martyred instead"

So who was this other and what is your stance on your sixth Caliph of the Muslims  Yazeed ibn Muawiya? Do you also praise and honour him like his father boys?

"Yet you will use promotion of Ibrahim as as an example of divine Imamate?"

Rather than yapping on about it what's your stance? Was Abraham promoted, was he demoted or given a title of a similar nature and grade? 😊 Come on lads, why are you so hesitant and shy to answer?

"Yet imams are higher and Allah swt will let them be humiliated their leadership get usurped and they get killed??"

Mankind is also classified as the best of creation (Ashraf e Makhlookat) but Allah allowed Satan to toy and play with this superior Makhlooq rather than protecting it. Just showing you your ideology and thinking but through the mirror😊

"Allah swt protects prophets (as with prophet Ibrahim as and the fire) but once you pass your test and get promoted then Allah swt doesn’t help you ( like imams being killed and never ruling)"

Certain Messengers and Prophets have also been killed through and by mankind when Allah sent them for their guidance. I will show you proof from the Qur'an. I wonder why Allah didn't protect and save them.

"Divine Imamate in a nutshell"

More like your narrow minded and locked ideology and thinking in a nutshell 😊

What’s up? Does the truth hurt? So it should it’s a bitter pill you have to swallow in your state of mind.

Yes for most of ahlu sunnah they leave Ameer Muawiya ra alone, His son is a whole new ball game that we don’t even bother about or think about he was just a power hungry ruler Allah swt will deal with him nothing to do with our iman.

We don’t know it’s the first one I’ve heard you tell us if He was promoted please do tell us how being promoted from divine to nobody please do tell us where will we find such prophetic divinity promoted to Imamate divinity.......if you have power of talking to angels who relay from Allah swt what promotion is after that? Even some talked directly to Allah swt yet imams never did.
I think you need to be clear in your answers.

Imams leadership got usurped they got killed hardly ever ruled and you are comparing that to iblees and his arrogance?!??

Yes there was messengers and prophets killed......but imams were PROMOTED of some promotion that’s above messengerhood and prophethood which prophets recieved miracles direct from god so imams will have something higher coz they were PROMOTED.....is that right?!?!

Shiism in a nutshell😉

[Mythbuster1]

Can a prophet give up His title or role?
NO

Can a divinely appointed imam much HIGHER than prophets after promotion give up His role or title?
Yes

Correction NO. Don't confuse IMAMAH with your so called CALIPHATE which completely collapsed and washed away and is no where to be seen or heard of.
O M G!!!!!

You have to be thick as a plank of wood to believe such nonsense.

How far deep does the rabbit hole go?

ABSOLUTELY 😊

Saqifa is emulated within the Muslim world and it’s still done today in all spheres of life we take action after shura (mutual consultation).

"Those who hearken to their Lord, and establish regular Prayer; who (conduct) their affairs by mutual consultation among themselves; who spend out of what We bestow on them for Sustenance" [are praised]
42:39


🤔 Now where  is the divine Imamate theory?!?!?!?!!?

Propbably washed away somewhere and never seen must be some made up old wives tales😉

I am glad you agree 😂👍

[Mythbuster1]

Don't pick a piece out of the post and try and give it your own meaning and understanding like the disbelievers. Saqifa didn't mess up my head but actually messed up the Ummah and your belief which depends on it.

It did mr promoter every where you turn every post you make saqifa is on your mind and to make it worse for you shura is in the Quran CLEAR TO SEE.....
.
"Those who hearken to their Lord, and establish regular Prayer; who (conduct) their affairs by mutual consultation among themselves; who spend out of what We bestow on them for Sustenance" [are praised]

Yet divine imamate you have to play gymnastics with words like PROMOTIONS 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

I know it gives you sleepless nights and endless headaches as your posts show.


Alhamdulilah

[iceman]

Meaning the first imam had His own internal problems, He bypassed nabuwwah to be promoted straight to imamah yet His role was full of internal turmoil tha Allah swt left it to the people........yet Allah swt always intervened for His prophets especially the example I gave of Ibrahim as and the fire.

Alhamdulillah

He Hassan ra United two great armies.
He didn’t however believe or think that He was giving it to a cold blooded killer who was killing just for power or like some of your kind think even worse of Him ra, it was simple the Shiites were cowards, the Shiites wouldn’t fight so Hassan fulfilled the prophecy Alhamdulillah.
It has NOTHING to do with divine Imamate in any sense or form because a prophet wouldn’t give up His authority to no man......yet a person higher than a prophet can?!??

I notice you bring out sources as if they agree with you somehow lol ........they don’t they confirm what I just wrote especially nothing to do with some divine Imamate idea.

"Meaning the first imam had His own internal problems, He bypassed nabuwwah to be promoted straight to imamah yet His role was full of internal turmoil tha Allah swt left it to the people......"

No he didn't have his own internal problems. The Prophet s.a.w was from Bani Hashim so certain Muhajir didn't want Caliphate to go to Bani Hashiim as well. This is what all of a sudden the secrecy of Saqifa was all about. No one at Saqifa mourned the Prophet s.a.w otherwise they wouldn’t have been there.

There should have been a period of mourning and then all concerned should have assembled and participated to select a leader and successor to Muhammad s.a.w

If it was organised and conducted do you think the two Shaykhs would have got their way. To the First Imam the worldly position of Caliphate wasn't so important that blood should be spilled over it.

[iceman]

"He Hassan ra United two great armies.
He didn’t however believe or think that He was giving it to a cold blooded killer who was killing just for power or like some of your kind think even worse of Him ra, it was simple the Shiites were cowards, the Shiites wouldn’t fight so Hassan fulfilled the prophecy Alhamdulillah."

No one said he was a cold blooded killer and was out there on a killing spree. He just didn't recognise the legitimate Islamic Caliphate and went to extreme measures just to have and get his way.

There is no harm in demanding that the killers of Usman be brought to justice. In fact I think it was a right and just demand. But using means of violence and threatening behaviour, using your influence and connections and raising arms and turning towards bloodshed  just to have your demands met was very wrong especially against the legitimate Islamic Caliphate. This is exactly what was wrong and where we differ with you.

Our Imams had their priorities and their priority was the welfare of Islam and the benefit of the Muslims. If you are right
then you must use might wasn't the policy of our Imams. And to use might to such a stage and length that who cares what ever the hell happens.

"Alhamdulillah.
It has NOTHING to do with divine Imamate in any sense or form because a prophet wouldn’t give up His authority to no man......yet a person higher than a prophet can?!??"

This is where you are wrong. No one gave up their divine authority. He was willing to resign from Caliphate and let Muawiya take office but why? Because the Ummah was divided over this. And it was done conditionally. Blame the Ummah like yourself for not having a clear objective and stance. Hassan did it but condionally to unite the Ummah and to save further bloodshed.

You know the reason and circumstances so stop trying to exploit the situation. The position of Caliphate has got nothing to do with Imamah. First go and learn and get to know about what Imamah is all about then  you won't need to jump up and down.

[iceman]

As we can see, rabbit, you are trying hard to pull me down a rabbit hole by putting forth many desperate posts.  Rest assured, you will faint once cornered!

We are not playing by our standards but by yours.  If Imams (ra) know everything in the future (which is your belief) then Imam Hassan (ra) - for entrusting Muawiya with the affairs of Ummah - shares the blame for everything Muawiya and Yazeed did, including the killing of Imam Hussain (ra). 

Going by your beliefs, why did the "bigger and better man" hand over the Caliphate to Muawiya when he knew what was in Muawiya's heart and that Muawiya would violate those conditions?  To me, such an explanation pins the blood of Imam Hussain (ra) on none other than Imam Hassan (ra) for if the "bigger and better man" stayed in power, Yazeed would have never get to sit on the throne.

Will you dare address that point?

Good for Muawiya!  The world was beautified to him and he enjoyed the best of the world to the fullest.  On the other hand, your Imams (ra) could not even enjoy their "Divinely Ordained Right".  And for snatching what was "Divinely Ordained" for your Imams (ra), I'd say Muawiya was a "bigger and better man".  After all, Muawiya alone offset the power of your 12 "infallible", "Divinely Guided and Ordained" Imams (ra).

Muawiya = 7; Imams = 0!

Here we go again!  Imam Hassan (ra) knew Muawiya's stance and he still entrusted him with the affairs of the Ummah.  Therefore, I blame Imam Hassan (ra) for all the miseries that proceeded.  Wouldn't you?

Talk about misplaced analogies!  Yes, Muawiya overpowered your 2nd "infallible" Imam (ra) and muscled him out of his "Divinely Ordained Right".  And your 2nd "infallible" Imam (ra), despite knowing Muawiya's love for the world and his intention to break all the conditions, gave the Caliphate to Muawiya. 

Wouldn't you blame Imam Hassan (ra) for allowing such a person to rule the Muslims?  I would!  That is, if I accept your pathetic excuses and incoherent beliefs.

Only in your feeble mind, the situation plays out in slow motion.  A crowd rushes the home of Uthman (ra), with possibly covered faces, and you want to know why his wife did not positively identify them.  As though they were walking with their ID cards hanging from a lanyard around their necks.

Anytime I cause you to lose sleep is extra sawaab for me!

"A crowd rushes the home of Uthman (ra), with possibly covered faces, and you want to know why his wife did not positively identify them.  As though they were walking with their ID cards hanging from a lanyard around their necks."

The people of Jamal and Safeen wanted the killers of Usman to be brought to justice and people like you claim that those killers were part of Ali's administration and central command of the army. If she couldn’t or didn't recognise them then where do your claims go?😊 How did your kind along with people of Jamal and Safeen recognise them? Get your facts right first. Don't pick and choose and then go by what ever suits you.

"We are not playing by our standards but by yours.  If Imams (ra) know everything in the future (which is your belief) then Imam Hassan (ra) - for entrusting Muawiya with the affairs of Ummah - shares the blame for everything Muawiya and Yazeed did, including the killing of Imam Hussain (ra)."

Well according to your theory Allah also knew and knows everything but still allowed Iblees to do and have a role in this that and the other and still allows Iblees  to carry on with it. So according to you Allah should also be blamed along with Iblees or should be held accountable rather than Iblees because he allowed and condoned it 😊 Please do elaborate on your theory rather than avoiding it or keeping it reserved on the Imams 😊

"Going by your beliefs, why did the "bigger and better man" hand over the Caliphate to Muawiya when he knew what was in Muawiya's heart and that Muawiya would violate those conditions?  To me, such an explanation pins the blood of Imam Hussain (ra) on none other than Imam Hassan (ra) for if the "bigger and better man" stayed in power, Yazeed would have never get to sit on the throne.

Will you dare address that point?"

Already addressed it. Check the thread. Latest posts.

[iceman]

"Good for Muawiya!  The world was beautified to him and he enjoyed the best of the world to the fullest.  On the other hand, your Imams (ra) could not even enjoy their "Divinely Ordained Right".  And for snatching what was "Divinely Ordained" for your Imams (ra), I'd say Muawiya was a "bigger and better man".  After all, Muawiya alone offset the power of your 12 "infallible", "Divinely Guided and Ordained" Imams (ra).

Muawiya = 7; Imams = 0!"

Yes, good for Muawiya but unfortunately not for the Ummah. During the war of Safeen consisting of 72 battles and taking of a year and a half thousands and thousands Muslim lives were lost. So....

Muawiyah = 10/10 And the Ummah= minus many thousands of lives lost. Fortunately Imamah had nothing to do with it.