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Election third caliph

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Furkan

Election third caliph
« on: January 16, 2015, 08:16:46 PM »
After Umar (Ra) was martyred, 6 people where candidates for caliph (all 6 chosen by Umar Ra).

One of those 6 was Uthman (Ra) and he became the caliph.

Is there an article describing in details how this shura happened? If not, can you brothers explain it in sha Allah.

I do know a bit about it, but I would like to clarify some doubts I have.

Jazak Allahu Ghair
Before Qazî Mihemed, President of the first kurdish Republic Mahabad was hanged the iranian judge asked:

“last words?”

Qazî: “I thank Allah: even in death he put my shoes above your heads”

Optimus Prime

Re: Election third caliph
« Reply #1 on: January 16, 2015, 09:42:51 PM »
After Umar (Ra) was martyred, 6 people where candidates for caliph (all 6 chosen by Umar Ra).

One of those 6 was Uthman (Ra) and he became the caliph.

Is there an article describing in details how this shura happened? If not, can you brothers explain it in sha Allah.

I do know a bit about it, but I would like to clarify some doubts I have.

Jazak Allahu Ghair


The 6 people appointed to decide on the new Khalifah was:

- Uthman
- Ali
- Sa'd ibn Abi Waqaas
- Zubair
- Talha
- Abur Rahman ibn Auf

These were the most 6 senior companions (RA) at that time.

Hani

Re: Election third caliph
« Reply #2 on: January 17, 2015, 07:23:02 PM »
One of the six was travelling he wasn't present (Talhah), another man was appointed to choose (Ibn `Awf), two men dropped their right of leadership (Zubayr & Sa`d), banu Hashim supported their candidate (`Ali) and banu Umayyah supported their candidate (`Uthman).


From that point the process was very tribal, each tribe backing their man no matter what, and there was tension, in the end majority of Muslims masses chose `Uthman, although Zubayr and Sa`d were on `Ali's side from what I recall.


Obviously there's a lot more detail, but this is sufficient.
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

Ebn Hussein

Re: Election third caliph
« Reply #3 on: January 23, 2015, 05:31:34 AM »
Hani once cited a narration where it was actually ALI who HASTED to give Bay'ah to Othman i.e. he was amongst the very first. Questions for straight thinking Shias:

1. Why did Ali participate in a unjust, taghooti, shaytani, false and corrupt Shura in the first place? Would any decent king after being overthrown by some renegade usurpers sit at a table with the very same usurpers and play the election game?! Certainly not, no decent king would do that, so why did Ali (the so called one and only true king i.e. Imam) did that?

2. If you say that Ali participated for the sake of the Ummah then this does not make sense whatsoever. Why does the Ummah need Ali to participate somewhere where 99% of the Sahaba did not participate?! I.e. it was HIS choice to participate and he (acc. to Shia beliefs) knows the unseen anyway and knows he won't be elected (not until 25 years after the demise of the Prophet i.e. in the Shura of Othman) so what benefit was there to participate in an election game of a bunch of usurpers?

3. Why didn't Ali at least use the opportunity to expose them, why didn't he mention the Ghadir narrations etc.?! History testifies that he did not do any such thing, he just like ANYBODY else participated and did not rebuke anybody (otherwise provide a single sahih report that Ali rebuked the shura).

الإمام الشافعي رحمه الله
لم أر أحداً من أهل الأهواء أشهد بالزور من الرافضة! - الخطيب في الكفاية والسوطي.

Imam Al-Shafi3i - may Allah have mercy upon him - said: "I have not seen among the heretics a people more famous for falsehood than the Rafidah." [narrated by Al-Khatib Al-Baghdadi/Al-Kifayah]

Optimus Prime

Re: Election third caliph
« Reply #4 on: January 23, 2015, 09:43:12 PM »
Hani once cited a narration where it was actually ALI who HASTED to give Bay'ah to Othman i.e. he was amongst the very first. Questions for straight thinking Shias:

1. Why did Ali participate in a unjust, taghooti, shaytani, false and corrupt Shura in the first place? Would any decent king after being overthrown by some renegade usurpers sit at a table with the very same usurpers and play the election game?! Certainly not, no decent king would do that, so why did Ali (the so called one and only true king i.e. Imam) did that?

2. If you say that Ali participated for the sake of the Ummah then this does not make sense whatsoever. Why does the Ummah need Ali to participate somewhere where 99% of the Sahaba did not participate?! I.e. it was HIS choice to participate and he (acc. to Shia beliefs) knows the unseen anyway and knows he won't be elected (not until 25 years after the demise of the Prophet i.e. in the Shura of Othman) so what benefit was there to participate in an election game of a bunch of usurpers?

3. Why didn't Ali at least use the opportunity to expose them, why didn't he mention the Ghadir narrations etc.?! History testifies that he did not do any such thing, he just like ANYBODY else participated and did not rebuke anybody (otherwise provide a single sahih report that Ali rebuked the shura).



Brother Ebn Hussein. This is taken from your http://gift2shias.com/2013/10/28/no-to-ghadir-qom-yes-to-ghadir-khom/ here:

The first to give allegiance to Othman was Abdul-Rahman Ibn Awf then after him was Ali ibn Abi Talib.

[Tabqat ibn saad vol3. pg 42.]

Ebn Hussein

Re: Election third caliph
« Reply #5 on: January 24, 2015, 12:14:03 AM »
^Lol, that's my article, should've known it, but I am not Imam Al-Zaman, innit. BTW where is the cellar dweller? Isn't he supposed to pop out and rule us after Abdallah's death?!
الإمام الشافعي رحمه الله
لم أر أحداً من أهل الأهواء أشهد بالزور من الرافضة! - الخطيب في الكفاية والسوطي.

Imam Al-Shafi3i - may Allah have mercy upon him - said: "I have not seen among the heretics a people more famous for falsehood than the Rafidah." [narrated by Al-Khatib Al-Baghdadi/Al-Kifayah]

Furkan

Re: Election third caliph
« Reply #6 on: January 24, 2015, 12:22:35 AM »
He is still counting the khums he received :D
Before Qazî Mihemed, President of the first kurdish Republic Mahabad was hanged the iranian judge asked:

“last words?”

Qazî: “I thank Allah: even in death he put my shoes above your heads”

Furkan

Before Qazî Mihemed, President of the first kurdish Republic Mahabad was hanged the iranian judge asked:

“last words?”

Qazî: “I thank Allah: even in death he put my shoes above your heads”

Hani

Re: Election third caliph
« Reply #8 on: January 24, 2015, 07:11:49 PM »
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

Furkan

Re: Election third caliph
« Reply #9 on: January 25, 2015, 12:47:04 AM »
In sha Allah brother.

I read the whole thing and some details where interesting, however you wrote the reports without authenticating them. Is it possible you will do that later on?
Before Qazî Mihemed, President of the first kurdish Republic Mahabad was hanged the iranian judge asked:

“last words?”

Qazî: “I thank Allah: even in death he put my shoes above your heads”

Rationalist

Re: Election third caliph
« Reply #10 on: January 25, 2015, 12:58:17 AM »
The big issue on this case is Umar (ra) made it binding for the next ruler to adopt the ijithad of himself and Abi Bakr (ra). Due to this Imam Ali (as) again was sidelined.

Optimus Prime

Re: Election third caliph
« Reply #11 on: January 25, 2015, 02:16:54 AM »
^Lol, that's my article, should've known it, but I am not Imam Al-Zaman, innit. BTW where is the cellar dweller? Isn't he supposed to pop out and rule us after Abdallah's death?!

Shall we ask the guys over at SC for an explanation?

Yeah, I've read it many times. One of the most comprehensive articles on the net regarding Ghadir Khum.

Ebn Hussein

Re: Election third caliph
« Reply #12 on: January 26, 2015, 09:44:29 AM »
The big issue on this case is Umar (ra) made it binding for the next ruler to adopt the ijithad of himself and Abi Bakr (ra). Due to this Imam Ali (as) again was sidelined.

Brother, did Omar made it binding or was it Abdul-Rahman ibn 'Awf?! Most Shias (Arabs) online use this narrations from Al-Ya3qubi (A Shia whom the Rafidah try to sell as a Sunni. The following quote is from a notorious Rafidi website al-hadi us ... full of misquotes and fabricated narrations):

Quote
Abdul Rahman ibn A'awf asked Ali: "If I have give you this caliphate, will you follow the Book of Allah, the Sunnah of his prophet and the ways of Abu Bakr and Umar?" Ali responded that he will only follow the Quran and the Sunnah of the ptophet. The same question was asked to Uthman and he responded that he will follow the path of the Quran, the prophetic Sunnah and the ways of Abu Bakr and Umar. Abdul Rahman asked them again the same question and he received the same answers. So Abdul Rahman picked Uthman as the next caliph after Umar because he agreed to follow the ways of Abu Bakr and Umar while Ali did not.
إن عبد الرحمن بن عوف قد خلا بعلي بن أبي طالب فقال: لنا الله عليك إن وليت هذا الأمر " الخلافة " أن تسير فينا بكتاب الله وسنة نبيه وسيرة أبي بكر وعمر. فقال علي أسير فيكم بكتاب الله وسنة نبيه ثم خلا بعثمان فقال له: لنا الله عليك إن وليت هذا الأمر أن تسير فينا بكتاب الله وسنة رسوله وسيرة أبي بكر وعمر، فقال عثمان: لكم أن أسير فيكم بكتاب الله وسنة نبيه وسيرة أبي بكر وعمر... وأعاد القول على الاثنين مرة ثانية فأجابا بمثل جوابهما أول مرة، فصفق عبد الرحمن على يد عثمان كناية على اختياره للخلافة لأن عثمان قد التزم بأن يعمل بكتاب الله وسنة رسول الله وسيرة أبي بكر وعمر، أما علي فقد التزم فقط بالعمل بكتاب الله وسنة رسول ولم يلتزم بالعمل بسيرة الشيخين أبي بكر وعمر لذلك صرفت عنه الخلافة.

The narration above can be found in other sources as well, even Shia websites don't claim what you claimed, look here (taken from the Rafidi website al-islam org):

Quote
Uthman, the Third Khalifa of the Muslims

....

Other members agreed but Ali hesitated to give Abdur Rahman any extra powers. When others insisted that he too should agree, he said to him:

I shall acknowledge you as chairman of the electoral committee if you give a pledge that you will not be a slave to your own lusts, and that your decision will be taken only to win the pleasure of God and His Messenger.”

Abdur Rahman readily gave his pledge for doing so, and thus became the chairman of the committee. ”

In a very detailed Hadith in Al-Bukhari about the Bay3ah after Omar there is not even such a thing about Ali not wanting to accept the Bay3a because of the condition (of following the sirah/ijtihadat of the Shaykhayn). And as I said, even the Rafidah don't claim that it was Omar who made the suggestion, rather it was one of the heads of the Muhajirs, Abdul-Rahman Ibn Awf, and here the proof (note how Ali is not rejecting anything at all):

أحمد بن حنبل - مسند العشرة .. - مسند عثمان.. - رقم الحديث : ( 526 )
 
- حدثنا : ‏ ‏عبد الله ‏ ‏، حدثني : ‏ ‏سفيان بن وكيع ‏ ‏، حدثني : ‏ ‏قبيصة ‏ ‏، عن ‏ ‏أبي بكر بن عياش ‏ ‏، عن ‏ ‏عاصم ‏ ‏، عن ‏ ‏أبي وائل ‏ ‏قال : ‏ ‏قلت ‏ ‏لعبد الرحمن بن عوف ‏: ‏كيف ‏ ‏بايعتم ‏ ‏عثمان ‏ ‏وتركتم ‏ ‏علياًً ‏ ‏(ر) ‏ ‏قال : ما ذنبي قد بدأت ‏ ‏بعلي ‏ ‏فقلت : أبايعك على كتاب الله وسنة رسوله وسيرة ‏ ‏أبي بكر ‏ ‏وعمر ‏ ‏(ر) ‏ ‏قال : فقال فيما إستطعت ، قال : ثم ‏ ‏عرضتها على ‏ ‏عثمان ‏ ‏(ر) ‏ ‏فقبلها.

Abu W'ail says: I asked Abdur Rahman Auf: "Why did you give your oath to Othman and ignored Ali", he replied: "I am not to be blamed, I offered my oath to Ali on the condition that he will follow book of God, the Sunnah of the Prophet, and the way of Abu bakr and Omar, and he replied "to the best of my abilities", I offered the same to Othman and he agreed.


Al-Tabari reported the story in his Tarikh:

Abdul Rahman ibn A'awf said to Ali: "do you promise to act in accordance with the book of Allah, the Sunnah of His Messenger and the Sirah of the two previous caliphs?" Ali replies to this question by saying "To the extent that my knowledge and strength allows." Uthman was asked the same question and he replied: "Yes."

فقالَ عبد الرحمن: إنّي قد نظرتُ وشاورتُ، فلا تجعلُنَّ أيُّها الرهطُ على أنفسكم سبيلاً، ودعا علياً فقالَ:
ـ عليكَ عهدُ اللّهِ وميثاقُه لتعملنَّ بكتاب اللّهِ وسنةِ رسوله وسيرةِ الخليفتين من بعده، قالَ:
ـ أرجو أنْ أفعلَ وأعملَ بمبلغ علمي وطاقتي، ودعا عثمانَ، فقالَ له مثلَ ما قالَ لعلي، قالَ:
ـ نعم، فبايعه، فقالَ عليٌّ:
حبوتَه حبوَ دهر، ليس هذا أولَّ يومٍ تظاهرتُم فيه علينا، فصبرٌ جميلٌ، واللّهُ المستعانُ على ما تصفون، واللّهِ ما ولَّيتَ عثمانَ إلّا ليردَّ الامرَ اليكَ


Ali's praise for Abu Bakr and Omar is mass narrated (like on the pulpit of Kufa), so every sincere researcher will understand nothing from the above except that Ali was being humble or let's say less sure if he can achieve the great achievements of Abu Bakr and Omar. If the whole thing was based on falsehood than Ali would have never participated in the first place, as I've explained above.

Why did Omar pick Ali amongst the six people of committee ? He could have just excluded him altogether, Shias even believe that Omar and Abu Bakr tried to kill the Prophet AND Ali (acc. to one of their narrations Abu Bakr and Omar send Khaled to kill Ali at Fajr prayer!). So why on earth does Omar even include Ali in the committee?! The answer is obvious, neither Omar nor Ali nor anyone else heard of the exclusive right of Ali (let alone his sons!) to rule over the Ummah. Othman even voted for Ali!

Quote
SELECTION OF UTHMAN

Umar asked that, after his death, the committee reach a final decision within three days, and the next Caliph should take the oath of office on the fourth day. If Talhah joined the committee within this period, he was to take part in the deliberations, but if he did not return to Medina within this period, the other members of the committee could proceed with the decision. Abdur Rahman bin Awf withdrew his eligibility to be appointed as Caliph in order to act as a moderator and began his task by interviewing every member of the committee separately. He asked them for whom they would cast their vote. When Ali was asked, he didn't reply. When Uthman was asked, he voted for Ali, Zubayr said for Ali or Uthman. and Saad said for Uthman.

REFRENCE: A Restatement of the History of Islam and Muslims on Al-Islam.org referencing Al-Fitna Al-Kubra (The Great Upheaval), published by Dar-ul-Ma'arif, Cairo, 1959, p. 47

Omar included Ali because Omar LOVED Ali more than his own son this is why he always treated Ali well and Ali accepted the gifts such as property and land:

http://twelvershia.net/2013/06/02/umar-ra-returned-to-ali-ra-the-lands-and-gave-him-new-ones/

and Ali participated because he loved Abu Bakr and Omar and didn't believe that the Shura is taghuti nor did he believe that his political leadership was usurped. If Ali claimed that elections is invalid then participating in one to elect himself would make him a hypocrite. The Shias own interpretation of history on this matter is making Ali a hypocrite, but they aren't able to see this because of they bias. All they do is come with 'excuses' for these inconsistencies.
الإمام الشافعي رحمه الله
لم أر أحداً من أهل الأهواء أشهد بالزور من الرافضة! - الخطيب في الكفاية والسوطي.

Imam Al-Shafi3i - may Allah have mercy upon him - said: "I have not seen among the heretics a people more famous for falsehood than the Rafidah." [narrated by Al-Khatib Al-Baghdadi/Al-Kifayah]

Hani

Re: Election third caliph
« Reply #13 on: January 26, 2015, 02:05:30 PM »
In sha Allah brother.

I read the whole thing and some details where interesting, however you wrote the reports without authenticating them. Is it possible you will do that later on?

Because these are history books, they have no chains, it's only stories written by historians. The valuable history books with chains are the likes of Tabari and Khalifah bin Khayyat.
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

 

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