TwelverShia.net Forum
Sunni Shia Discussion Forum => Sahabah-AhlulBayt => Topic started by: Shia not Rafidi on February 15, 2019, 03:09:17 PM
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Assalamo Alaykum :)
Brothers in islam, i couldn't find any article on this topic on the internet "what Ali ra was told to do" that is why I am so confused..
when shia are asked why Ali ra didn't do anything to save his wife from Umar ra, they say: "because he was told to be patient and not use sword against his opponents (specially shaykhayn ra according to Pakistani Ayatullah Shehnshah Hussain Naqvi)" he shows different narrations from sunni books including Mustadrak lil-Hakim which says on the bottom that the Hadith is Sahih..
And plz don't tell me that the door incident never happened because i already know it didn't.. I only want the Grading of this hadith and a rational explanation of it..
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Assalamo Alaykum :)
Brothers in islam, i couldn't find any article on this topic on the internet "what Ali ra was told to do" that is why I am so confused..
when shia are asked why Ali ra didn't do anything to save his wife from Umar ra, they say: "because he was told to be patient and not use sword against his opponents (specially shaykhayn ra according to Pakistani Ayatullah Shehnshah Hussain Naqvi)" he shows different narrations from sunni books including Mustadrak lil-Hakim which says on the bottom that the Hadith is Sahih..
And plz don't tell me that the door incident never happened because i already know it didn't.. I only want the Grading of this hadith and a rational explanation of it..
Abu Dharr narrates that Rasulullah (s) asked me ‘What will you do when the Imams after me shall take this property of Fai as their own? Abu Dharr said ‘I swear by He who made you a Prophet, I shall raise my sword and declare war until I take it back’. Rasulullah (s) said .I shall give you a better option, be patient until you meet me’.
This fabricated report is destroyed by the promise of Allah in Quran, where Allah promises to bring a people who would fight the apostates contrary to ask them to be patient.
Refer this video:
&t=3s
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Omar ibn al-Khattab is quoted as having said;
"Fatima clutched her hands on the door trying to stop me from opening it. I sought to open it, but I found the challenge too great, so I hit both her hands with the whip, and it caused her pain... I kicked the door, and she had stuck her belly on the door to fortify it... I forced the door open and entered. She faced me with a look which caused my vision to go into a trance, so I slapped her on her cheeks from outside her face’s veil, breaking her earring which scattered on the floor. Ali came out. When I felt his presence, I rushed to get out of the house and said to Khalid (ibn al-Walid) and to Qunfath and those in their company, “I surely have been spared a momentous event.” I gathered a large number of men not to subdue Ali but to make my heart more daring. I went to him, and he was besieged at his house, and took him out of his house..., etc"
Ibid., Vol. 30, pp. 293-95.
Also refer to Sunni historian Abul Hasan, Ali Ibn al-Husain al-Mas'udi who in his book 'Isbaat al-Wasiyyah' describes the events in detail and reports that: "They surrounded Ali and burned the door of his house and pulled him out against his will and pressed Fatimah between the door and the wall killing Mohsin (the male-child she was carrying in her womb for six months).
When the assailants reached her house, `Omer called out, “O Fatima daughter of the Messenger of Allah! Get those who have sought shelter at your house out so that they may swear the oath of allegiance and join the other Muslims who have already done so; otherwise, I, by Allah, shall set them all to fire.
Al-Jamal, pp. 117-18 (new edition). Nahj al-Haqq, p. 271. Al-Imama wal Siyasa, Vol. 1, p. 12. Ibn Shuhnah, Tarikh (referred to in a footnote in Al-Kamil), Vol. 7, p. 164. Abul-Fida’, Tarikh, Vol. 1, p. 156. Al-`Iqd al-Farad, Vol. 4, p. 259. Al-Ya`qabi, Tarikh, Vol. 2, p. 126.
She has said, “They brought the fire to burn the house and our own selves, so I stood at the door’s latch and pleaded to them in the Name of Allah..., etc.”
Al-Majlisi, Bihar al-Anwar, Vol. 30, p. 348, citing Irshad al-Qulab by al-Daylami.
In another text, he is quoted as having said, “O daughter of the Messenger of Allah! By Allah! Nobody is dearer to me than your father and your own self! By Allah! This does not stop me from setting the door of those who have assembled at your house ablaze!”
Muntakhab Kanz al-`Ummal (referred to in a footnote in Ahmed’s Musnad), Vol. 2, p. 174, from Ibn Aba Shaybah. Ibn Abul-Hadid, Sharh Nahjul Balagha, Vol. 2, p. 45 from al-Jawhari and al-Mughni to the judge `Abdullah, Part 20, Section 1, p. 335. Al-Murtada, Al-Shafi, Vol. 4, p. 110.
Also, refer to http://www.al-islam.org/encyclopedia/chapter4/5.html.
The Eminent Sheikh At-Tusi wrote: “One of the denied facts is that they (Umar and his followers) hit Fatima (the blessing of Allah be upon her) although it has been narrated that they flogged her with a strip and a famous opinion that no one amongst the Shia scholars dispute about, is that Umar hit her on her stomach (womb) until she was forced to have a miscarriage, where the miscarried baby was named Mohassan. The narration (of the event) is even famous amongst them (the Sunnis), as well as the narration of their intention to burn her house when a group of sincere companions who had refused to pay allegiance and sought refuge to her house. And no one can deny this narration because we have proven it from amongst the Sunni sources through the narration of Al-Balathari and others, and the Shia narrations are numerous and our scholars indisputably accept them.”
(Talkhis Al-Shafi 3:156)
The attack on her house occurs
f. Abu Ubayd Al-Qasim bin Salaam (who died in the year 224 A.H) has narrated on the authority of Abdul Rahman bin ‘Ouf that Abu Bakr bin Abi Quhafa said: I wish that I did not raid the house of Fatima and that I left it even if the door was closed to (plan) war. (Al-Amwaal 144)
g. Abul-Qasim Sulayman bin Ahmad At-Tabrani (who died in the year 360 A.H), the author of the book Al-Mu’jam Al-Kabir, has narrated from Abi Bakr ibn Abi Quhafa: As for the three things that I wish I never did, was that I wish I did not raid Fatima’s house and I left it …. (Al-Mu’jam Alkabir 1:62)
h. Ibn Abd-Rabbih Al-Undulosi has narrated in his book, Al-‘Iqdul Farid, from Abdul Rahman bin ‘Ouf that Abi Bakr ibn Abi Quhafa said: And I wish that I did not raid the house of Fatima for any reason even if they had the door closed to (plan) war. (Al-‘Iqdul Farid 4:93)
i. Ibrahim bin Sayyar al-Nazzam; the Mu’tazali (who died in the year 231 A.H) narrated: On the day of pledging allegiance (to Abu Bakr) Umar hit the stomach of Fatima until she miscarried Muhassan. (Al-Wafi bil Wafiyyat 6:17)
j. Muhammad bin Yazid bin Abdil Akbar Al-Baghdadi (who died in the year 285 A.H), the famous author of the book Al-Kamil, narrated from Abdil Rahman bin ‘Ouf from Abi Bakr bin Abi Qohafa: I wish I did not raid Fatima’s house and that I left it even if the door was closed to (plan) war. (Sharh Nahjul Balagha li-ibn Abi Al-Hadid 2:46)
k. Al-Masudi (who died in the year 325 A.H) has narrated in his book titled Muruj Al-thahab: Abu Bakr said at the time of his death: “I wish I did not seek to raid the house of Fatima”, and he mentioned many things about that incident.” (Muruj Al-Thahab 2:301)
l. Ibn Abi Darim (who died in the year 357 A.H) has narrated in his book Mizan Al-I’tidal: Umar kicked Fatima until she miscarried Muhassan. (Mizan Al-I’tidal 3:459)
m. The contemporary historian, Abdul Fattah Abdul Maqsood, stated in his book ‘Imam Ali’: That Umar bin Al-Khattab said “I swear by the One whom Umar’s soul is in His power, they must come out of the house or else I will burn it on whoever is inside it …!”
A group of the people (who were with Umar) who feared Allah and guarded (the teachings of) the Prophet said: “O Aba-Hafs, Fatima is inside!”
He carelessly screamed: “So what … !” He then approached and knocked on the door, then he hit the door open and invaded it … and Ali appeared to him … at that moment Fatima’s voice was heard from the doorway of the house … she was crying for help … (Abdul Fattah Abdul Maqsood: Ali bin Abi Taleb 4:276)
n. Moqatil ibn ‘Atiyyah narrated in his book ‘Al-Imamah wal Khilafah’: After Abu Bakr took the allegiance of people by force, using his sword and power, he sent Umar and Qunfuth and a group of men to the house of Ali and Fatima. Umar collected wood and put them at the doorway of Fatima’s house and burnt the door down … (Al-Imamah wal khilafah 160-161)
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All lies made up by liars . Not one stands the test of reliability . Neither by Sunni standards nor by Shia.
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Ibid., Vol. 30, pp. 293-95.
Amazing source!!
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There are other funny parts also, in Iceman's article :-
"Iqd al farid" is book of factual history , Masudi is a sunni historian etc,
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Amazing source!!
The Duffer doesn’t even know what to copy paste.
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WOW you couldn’t make this stuff up.
How on earth can Umar ra whip Her ra’s hands from other side of the door?
Was this whip of some jinn kind that it magically went through on the other side to whip her hands??
Confused.com
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Just putting material forward based on the incident of the door. Just as simple as that. Not trying to prove or justify anything. So no need for you to get goosebumps over it. Just relax. I don't know why you're in a state of shock and awe. 😊
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What? Material with magical whips? That’s shocking you know it is yourself hence your comeback answer.......I told you before.....READ what you post......now your a troll with egg on your face.
And you are a mullah???
🤔
I will leave it at that.
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What? Material with magical whips? That’s shocking you know it is yourself hence your comeback answer.......I told you before.....READ what you post......now your a troll with egg on your face.
And you are a mullah???
🤔
I will leave it at that.
I've read it. It's material regarding what is being discussed and according to the thread. If you have a problem with it or any bit or part of it then mention it and talk about it then discuss it. But if you have a problem with yourself then there's nothing anyone can do about that. The way you carry on you're not doing the Ahle Sunnah any favours. In fact you're making yourself look bad. Not that you care I think.
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I've read it. It's material regarding what is being discussed and according to the thread. If you have a problem with it or any bit or part of it then mention it and talk about it then discuss it. But if you have a problem with yourself then there's nothing anyone can do about that. The way you carry on you're not doing the Ahle Sunnah any favours. In fact you're making yourself look bad. Not that you care I think.
You are already looking bad I don’t need to do ANYTHING, if I was in your class I would make you worried and stressed.
YOU believe in a report of a magic whip that magically came either through the door ( considering the door is surrounded by a wall from either side) to strike a hand other side.
Am I missing something here? Maybe YOU can explain because I can’t understand it.
For us muslims first of all there was no door maybe a cloth covering but in them days to get a door put on would be mainly for the rich who can afford it and as we KNOW ahlu baith ra were very poor.
Onus is on YOU now to explain how you believe the whip came to whip a hand on the other side of a door surrounded by walls.
The Shias are looking for you to answer this Sunnis question.
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Abu Dharr narrates that Rasulullah (s) asked me ‘What will you do when the Imams after me shall take this property of Fai as their own? Abu Dharr said ‘I swear by He who made you a Prophet, I shall raise my sword and declare war until I take it back’. Rasulullah (s) said .I shall give you a better option, be patient until you meet me’.
Then why the report is graded as Authentic in Al-Mustadrak alaa al-Sahihain and what does it mean?
My main question
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For us muslims first of all there was no door maybe a cloth covering but in them days to get a door put on would be mainly for the rich who can afford it and as we KNOW ahlu baith ra were very poor.
Yes, it's been mentioned in Bihar ul-Anwar by Baqir Majlisi.. Here's the copy
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You are already looking bad I don’t need to do ANYTHING, if I was in your class I would make you worried and stressed.
YOU believe in a report of a magic whip that magically came either through the door ( considering the door is surrounded by a wall from either side) to strike a hand other side.
Am I missing something here? Maybe YOU can explain because I can’t understand it.
For us muslims first of all there was no door maybe a cloth covering but in them days to get a door put on would be mainly for the rich who can afford it and as we KNOW ahlu baith ra were very poor.
Onus is on YOU now to explain how you believe the whip came to whip a hand on the other side of a door surrounded by walls.
The Shias are looking for you to answer this Sunnis question.
"You are already looking bad I don’t need to do ANYTHING"
What, in the eyes of a handful of people who can't think or see anything straight and right about the Shias.
"if I was in your class I would make you worried and stressed"
Class? Still think you're in school. You need to shake off that childish behaviour.
"YOU believe in a etc"
It's got nothing to do with belief or not. Just put information forward regarding the thread and what is being discussed. Talk about it. Don't moan about it.
"For us muslims first of all there was no door etc"
How many lives have you lived before this? You sound like you actually lived in that age and time. And it's not 'for us Muslims' but 'for us handful of Sunnis'.
Read it carefully but with an open mind and with some sense. A person is at your door and fact number one, this is no ordinary person but a friend and companion of your dad and not only that but also a member of the family, a relative.
He's at the door and she opens it slightly like you would normally do to talk to someone. Then he tries to push it open so he could enter but she holds on to the door with her hands to stop the forced entry.
Just use your head with a bit of sense from here. That's all you need.
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Yes, it's been mentioned in Bihar ul-Anwar by Baqir Majlisi.. Here's the copy
Jazakhallah brother for that, now iceman has no leg to stand on it’s mentioned in their own books.
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"You are already looking bad I don’t need to do ANYTHING"
What, in the eyes of a handful of people who can't think or see anything straight and right about the Shias.
"if I was in your class I would make you worried and stressed"
Class? Still think you're in school. You need to shake off that childish behaviour.
"YOU believe in a etc"
It's got nothing to do with belief or not. Just put information forward regarding the thread and what is being discussed. Talk about it. Don't moan about it.
"For us muslims first of all there was no door etc"
How many lives have you lived before this? You sound like you actually lived in that age and time. And it's not 'for us Muslims' but 'for us handful of Sunnis'.
Read it carefully but with an open mind and with some sense. A person is at your door and fact number one, this is no ordinary person but a friend and companion of your dad and not only that but also a member of the family, a relative.
He's at the door and she opens it slightly like you would normally do to talk to someone. Then he tries to push it open so he could enter but she holds on to the door with her hands to stop the forced entry.
Just use your head with a bit of sense from here. That's all you need.
We believe there was NO door, according to bakir majlisi there was NO door.
You carry on believing in unsubstantiated theories made up that are told from liars, that’s all YOU need.
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Omar ibn al-Khattab is quoted as having said;
"Fatima clutched her hands on the door trying to stop me from opening it. I sought to open it, but I found the challenge too great, so I hit both her hands with the whip, and it caused her pain... I kicked the door, and she had stuck her belly on the door to fortify it... I forced the door open and entered. She faced me with a look which caused my vision to go into a trance, so I slapped her on her cheeks from outside her face’s veil, breaking her earring which scattered on the floor. Ali came out. When I felt his presence, I rushed to get out of the house and said to Khalid (ibn al-Walid) and to Qunfath and those in their company, “I surely have been spared a momentous event.” I gathered a large number of men not to subdue Ali but to make my heart more daring. I went to him, and he was besieged at his house, and took him out of his house..., etc"
Ibid., Vol. 30, pp. 293-95.
Ibid? Ameen is such a legend even among shia zombies
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Ibid? Ameen is such a legend even among shia zombies
Thanks for the compliment. So much love and respect. I'm absolutely smitten. This is exactly why we have a lot of Shias on this site. Keep it up.
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Omar ibn al-Khattab is quoted as having said;
"Fatima clutched her hands on the door trying to stop me from opening it. I sought to open it, but I found the challenge too great, so I hit both her hands with the whip, and it caused her pain... I kicked the door, and she had stuck her belly on the door to fortify it... I forced the door open and entered. She faced me with a look which caused my vision to go into a trance, so I slapped her on her cheeks from outside her face’s veil, breaking her earring which scattered on the floor. Ali came out. When I felt his presence, I rushed to get out of the house and said to Khalid (ibn al-Walid) and to Qunfath and those in their company, “I surely have been spared a momentous event.” I gathered a large number of men not to subdue Ali but to make my heart more daring. I went to him, and he was besieged at his house, and took him out of his house..., etc"
Ibid., Vol. 30, pp. 293-95.
Also refer to Sunni historian Abul Hasan, Ali Ibn al-Husain al-Mas'udi who in his book 'Isbaat al-Wasiyyah' describes the events in detail and reports that: "They surrounded Ali and burned the door of his house and pulled him out against his will and pressed Fatimah between the door and the wall killing Mohsin (the male-child she was carrying in her womb for six months).
When the assailants reached her house, `Omer called out, “O Fatima daughter of the Messenger of Allah! Get those who have sought shelter at your house out so that they may swear the oath of allegiance and join the other Muslims who have already done so; otherwise, I, by Allah, shall set them all to fire.
Al-Jamal, pp. 117-18 (new edition). Nahj al-Haqq, p. 271. Al-Imama wal Siyasa, Vol. 1, p. 12. Ibn Shuhnah, Tarikh (referred to in a footnote in Al-Kamil), Vol. 7, p. 164. Abul-Fida’, Tarikh, Vol. 1, p. 156. Al-`Iqd al-Farad, Vol. 4, p. 259. Al-Ya`qabi, Tarikh, Vol. 2, p. 126.
She has said, “They brought the fire to burn the house and our own selves, so I stood at the door’s latch and pleaded to them in the Name of Allah..., etc.”
Al-Majlisi, Bihar al-Anwar, Vol. 30, p. 348, citing Irshad al-Qulab by al-Daylami.
In another text, he is quoted as having said, “O daughter of the Messenger of Allah! By Allah! Nobody is dearer to me than your father and your own self! By Allah! This does not stop me from setting the door of those who have assembled at your house ablaze!”
Muntakhab Kanz al-`Ummal (referred to in a footnote in Ahmed’s Musnad), Vol. 2, p. 174, from Ibn Aba Shaybah. Ibn Abul-Hadid, Sharh Nahjul Balagha, Vol. 2, p. 45 from al-Jawhari and al-Mughni to the judge `Abdullah, Part 20, Section 1, p. 335. Al-Murtada, Al-Shafi, Vol. 4, p. 110.
Also, refer to http://www.al-islam.org/encyclopedia/chapter4/5.html.
The Eminent Sheikh At-Tusi wrote: “One of the denied facts is that they (Umar and his followers) hit Fatima (the blessing of Allah be upon her) although it has been narrated that they flogged her with a strip and a famous opinion that no one amongst the Shia scholars dispute about, is that Umar hit her on her stomach (womb) until she was forced to have a miscarriage, where the miscarried baby was named Mohassan. The narration (of the event) is even famous amongst them (the Sunnis), as well as the narration of their intention to burn her house when a group of sincere companions who had refused to pay allegiance and sought refuge to her house. And no one can deny this narration because we have proven it from amongst the Sunni sources through the narration of Al-Balathari and others, and the Shia narrations are numerous and our scholars indisputably accept them.”
(Talkhis Al-Shafi 3:156)
The attack on her house occurs
f. Abu Ubayd Al-Qasim bin Salaam (who died in the year 224 A.H) has narrated on the authority of Abdul Rahman bin ‘Ouf that Abu Bakr bin Abi Quhafa said: I wish that I did not raid the house of Fatima and that I left it even if the door was closed to (plan) war. (Al-Amwaal 144)
g. Abul-Qasim Sulayman bin Ahmad At-Tabrani (who died in the year 360 A.H), the author of the book Al-Mu’jam Al-Kabir, has narrated from Abi Bakr ibn Abi Quhafa: As for the three things that I wish I never did, was that I wish I did not raid Fatima’s house and I left it …. (Al-Mu’jam Alkabir 1:62)
h. Ibn Abd-Rabbih Al-Undulosi has narrated in his book, Al-‘Iqdul Farid, from Abdul Rahman bin ‘Ouf that Abi Bakr ibn Abi Quhafa said: And I wish that I did not raid the house of Fatima for any reason even if they had the door closed to (plan) war. (Al-‘Iqdul Farid 4:93)
i. Ibrahim bin Sayyar al-Nazzam; the Mu’tazali (who died in the year 231 A.H) narrated: On the day of pledging allegiance (to Abu Bakr) Umar hit the stomach of Fatima until she miscarried Muhassan. (Al-Wafi bil Wafiyyat 6:17)
j. Muhammad bin Yazid bin Abdil Akbar Al-Baghdadi (who died in the year 285 A.H), the famous author of the book Al-Kamil, narrated from Abdil Rahman bin ‘Ouf from Abi Bakr bin Abi Qohafa: I wish I did not raid Fatima’s house and that I left it even if the door was closed to (plan) war. (Sharh Nahjul Balagha li-ibn Abi Al-Hadid 2:46)
k. Al-Masudi (who died in the year 325 A.H) has narrated in his book titled Muruj Al-thahab: Abu Bakr said at the time of his death: “I wish I did not seek to raid the house of Fatima”, and he mentioned many things about that incident.” (Muruj Al-Thahab 2:301)
l. Ibn Abi Darim (who died in the year 357 A.H) has narrated in his book Mizan Al-I’tidal: Umar kicked Fatima until she miscarried Muhassan. (Mizan Al-I’tidal 3:459)
m. The contemporary historian, Abdul Fattah Abdul Maqsood, stated in his book ‘Imam Ali’: That Umar bin Al-Khattab said “I swear by the One whom Umar’s soul is in His power, they must come out of the house or else I will burn it on whoever is inside it …!”
A group of the people (who were with Umar) who feared Allah and guarded (the teachings of) the Prophet said: “O Aba-Hafs, Fatima is inside!”
He carelessly screamed: “So what … !” He then approached and knocked on the door, then he hit the door open and invaded it … and Ali appeared to him … at that moment Fatima’s voice was heard from the doorway of the house … she was crying for help … (Abdul Fattah Abdul Maqsood: Ali bin Abi Taleb 4:276)
n. Moqatil ibn ‘Atiyyah narrated in his book ‘Al-Imamah wal Khilafah’: After Abu Bakr took the allegiance of people by force, using his sword and power, he sent Umar and Qunfuth and a group of men to the house of Ali and Fatima. Umar collected wood and put them at the doorway of Fatima’s house and burnt the door down … (Al-Imamah wal khilafah 160-161)
You know a person is a dumb fool when the first source he quotes says "Ibid., Vol. 30, pp. 293-95."
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According to the fabricated Shia story `Ali broke the Prophet's (saw) will and got Fatimah (as) killed as a result.
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According to the fabricated Shia story `Ali broke the Prophet's (saw) will and got Fatimah (as) killed as a result.
And according to a TRUE story one prevented the Prophet s.a.w from writing a will to begin with by saying,
"Don't listen to him, he s.a.w has become delirious, remember we have the book of Allah, the book of Allah is sufficient for us".
And others sided with him causing a division within them. Any thoughts on this big guy.
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And according to a TRUE story one prevented the Prophet s.a.w from writing a will to begin with by saying,
"Don't listen to him, he s.a.w has become delirious, remember we have the book of Allah, the book of Allah is sufficient for us".
And others sided with him causing a division within them. Any thoughts on this big guy.
Lol was that the same jinn who magically went through the door that told you that Umar ra said “ DONT LISTEN TO HIM”!
You must talk to jinns😜
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Lol was that the same jinn who magically went through the door that told you that Umar ra said “ DONT LISTEN TO HIM”!
You must talk to jinns😜
First of all thanks for commenting on it. Hani just flies in, takes a cheap and low shot then swiftly runs off to avoid getting hit. And then is no where to be seen until the bat decides to take another flight.
And you, so what exactly did Umar say? 😊
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Bro Hani comes in and gives you doses of truths and facts and gives you points to think about, he isn’t a joker like you.
Well I do know for a fact also that Umar ra didn’t say the words “don’t listen to him”, unless you can authenticate it not by jinns or ibids but with authentic written evidence.
You make claims but your air comes out when confronted with providing evidences for such baseless claims.
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Bro Hani comes in and gives you doses of truths and facts and gives you points to think about, he isn’t a joker like you.
Well I do know for a fact also that Umar ra didn’t say the words “don’t listen to him”, unless you can authenticate it not by jinns or ibids but with authentic written evidence.
You make claims but your air comes out when confronted with providing evidences for such baseless claims.
Nope. He comes in like a bat with cheap shots and then flies back out again to save his skin.
Umar very clearly objected to what the Prophet s.a.w asked for and disregarded what the Prophet s.a.w had to write. That's the bottom line and you can continue to do your very best to make him look good as possible. 😊
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Umar very clearly objected to what the Prophet s.a.w asked for and disregarded what the Prophet s.a.w had to write. That's the bottom line and you can continue to do your very best to make him look good as possible. 😊
Well, Umar (ra) somehow also subdued Imam Ali (ra), in the whole process, because even Imam Ali (ra) failed to deliver what the Prophet (saw) asked for. That, too, is the bottom line and you can continue to do your very best to make Imam Ali (ra) an infallible, all-powerful being but he failed as a leader (according to your own judgment).
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Nope. He comes in like a bat with cheap shots and then flies back out again to save his skin.
Umar very clearly objected to what the Prophet s.a.w asked for and disregarded what the Prophet s.a.w had to write. That's the bottom line and you can continue to do your very best to make him look good as possible. 😊
The BAT is YOU making up a LIE and attributing it to a pious noble companion and a relative of prophet sallallahu alaihewasalam and then flying away without any evidence.
The bottom line is YOU LIED and you haven’t an atom of shame about that LIE! You can’t even produce any evidence on your behalf.
Your hate is making YOU look bad and embarrassing to shiism itself, believing in magical jinn whips and blatant lies, you put Harry Potter to shame.
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Well, Umar (ra) somehow also subdued Imam Ali (ra), in the whole process, because even Imam Ali (ra) failed to deliver what the Prophet (saw) asked for. That, too, is the bottom line and you can continue to do your very best to make Imam Ali (ra) an infallible, all-powerful being but he failed as a leader (according to your own judgment).
TWICE the great khalifa Umar ra subdued Imam Ali ra, a mere fallible human being.....TWICE!
Once at home and then on the Black Thursday .......SO MUCH FOR DIVINE IMAMS then.
He won’t get it he has been fed lies and thinks we are gonna believe his tripe what he spews.
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TWICE the great khalifa Umar ra subdued Imam Ali ra, a mere fallible human being.....TWICE!
More times than that! Umar (ra) also took the "Divine Imam's" (ra) daughter in marriage; the one who has control over the atoms could do nothing. Just watched the alleged killer of his wife (ra) marry his daughter (ra).
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More times than that! Umar (ra) also took the "Divine Imam's" (ra) daughter in marriage; the one who has control over the atoms could do nothing. Just watched the alleged killer of his wife (ra) marry his daughter (ra).
Oh yea I forgot about that, a super human couldn’t save his wife, his daughter or stand up for his father in law and yet he ra can move atoms and knows when he himself ra is gonna die and knows the future.......what kind of a being is iceman portraying him ra as?
Unbelievable!
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Would anyone like to answer what is being asked mainly..?
what does the Hadith mean and is there an explanation to what Prophet PBUH told Ali RA to be patient about??
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Would anyone like to answer what is being asked mainly..?
what does the Hadith mean and is there an explanation to what Prophet PBUH told Ali RA to be patient about??
It was answered in my initial post. Its unreliable. So what explanation you need for an unreliable report?
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Oh yea I forgot about that, a super human couldn’t save his wife, his daughter or stand up for his father in law and yet he ra can move atoms and knows when he himself ra is gonna die and knows the future.......what kind of a being is iceman portraying him ra as?
Unbelievable!
We don't believe that Umar married a great granddaughter, just as we don't believe the Prophet s.a.w married under age girls. You believe in such nonsense. We don't. Your books are full of this.
Oh, forget about super human, there is Almighty Allah. According to your theory the Almighty Allah couldn't save mankind from Satan. Think again.
Iceman thinks before speaking, you don't.
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Well, Umar (ra) somehow also subdued Imam Ali (ra), in the whole process, because even Imam Ali (ra) failed to deliver what the Prophet (saw) asked for. That, too, is the bottom line and you can continue to do your very best to make Imam Ali (ra) an infallible, all-powerful being but he failed as a leader (according to your own judgment).
It doesn't matter what ever excuse you come up with or which ever way you turn it, but you can't turn back the clock. What Umar said, did and how he responded is what he is and will be judged by. The matter is clear and you can carry on looking for excuses. I completely understand that Umar desperately needs to be protected here.
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Surah Aal-e-Imran verse 32 Say, "Obey Allah and the Prophet, but if they turn back, then verily Allah does not love the disbelievers"
Surah Anfal verse 20: "O ye who believe! Obey Allah and His Messenger, and turn not away from him when ye hear (him speak)."
The Holy Prophet (s) requests that writing materials be brought to him
This is what we read in Sahih al-Bukhari as narrated by Ibn 'Abbas:
When the time of the death of the Prophet approached while there were some men in the house, and among them was 'Umar Ibn al-Khattab, the Prophet said:
"Come near let me write for you a writing after which you will never go astray."
As above the Prophet s.a.w spoke. What does Allah say again when the Prophet s.a.w speaks,
Surah Anfal verse 20: "O ye who believe! Obey Allah and His Messenger, and turn not away from him when ye hear (him speak)."
And what did Umar say, how did Umar react?
'Umar said: "The Prophet is seriously ill, and you have the Qur'an, so Allah's Book is sufficient for us."
What happened afterwards?
The people in the house differed and disputed. Some of them said, "Come near so that Allah's Apostle may write for you a writing after which you will not go astray,"
while the others said what 'Umar said.
Why did these others differ? You seriously think they were concerned about the Prophet's s.a.w health. What a silly excuse to cover their intentions and justify their actions.
When they made much noise and quarreled greatly in front of the Prophet, he said to them,
"Go away and leave me." Ibn 'Abbas used to say, "It was a great disaster that their quarrel and noise prevented Allah's Apostle from writing a statement for them.
Sahih al Bukhari Arabic-English Volume 9 hadith number 468 and Volume 7 hadith 573
How long are some Sunnis going to play hide and seek here.
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The Prophet (s) wanted to compose a will
We learn from the traditions that towards the end of his noble life, the Prophet's (s) condition was deteriorating. The majority opinion holds that the Prophet (s) left no will before his death, and made no attempt to do so. However, according to the Qur'an it is absolutely obligatory on all Muslims to leave a will. Allah (swt) says in his Glorious Book:
"It is prescribed for you when death approaches one of you, if he leaves behind any goods that he makes a bequest for Parents and (the nearest kinsmen) in goodness, this is a duty upon the pious" (The Qur'an 2:180)).
We may thus ask the question: Would the Prophet of Allah (s) of all Muslims - the one whose Sunnah we are obliged to follow - disregard an order stipulated in the Holy Qur'an?
And all we'll get in response is sarcastic comments and insulting remarks. Followed by, well Ali this and Ali that. They call themselves the AHLE SUNNAH. And it is the Prophet s.a.w who is being objected here. They call themselves the AHLE SUNNAH but can't protect the Messenger or his Sunnah.
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The Prophet (s) wanted to compose a will
We learn from the traditions that towards the end of his noble life, the Prophet's (s) condition was deteriorating. The majority opinion holds that the Prophet (s) left no will before his death, and made no attempt to do so. However, according to the Qur'an it is absolutely obligatory on all Muslims to leave a will. Allah (swt) says in his Glorious Book:
"It is prescribed for you when death approaches one of you, if he leaves behind any goods that he makes a bequest for Parents and (the nearest kinsmen) in goodness, this is a duty upon the pious" (The Qur'an 2:180)).
Why would Prophet pbuh need to leave any bequest? The bequeath for his family & nearest kinsmen were available and benefited them long after he passed away. Not just Ali ra family, but also Abbas family etc.
If the will was not about wealth, but divine leadership, do you think after 23yrs of struggle with wealth, sweat and blood, Prophet pbuh would just gave up and let Umar ra had his way? Can shia go any lower in doubting Prophet pbuh ability to make sure the will was written down? Did you think Umar ra was standing next to him for several days to make sure the will wouldnt be written down? Or where was Ali ra for not making sure the will would be writen down? Yes, i mention Ali, because people with intelect will ask the same question.
Ameen, your shia "history" has more holes than a sinking boat.
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And according to a TRUE story one prevented the Prophet s.a.w from writing a will to begin with by saying,
"Don't listen to him, he s.a.w has become delirious, remember we have the book of Allah, the book of Allah is sufficient for us".
And others sided with him causing a division within them. Any thoughts on this big guy.
I'd like to see what you quoted above in an actual source, cause I assure you, such a text does not exist with any chain.
Do you believe in Kitab Sulaym bin Qays? In that book the Prophet (saw) told `Ali "If you don't find forty supporters, give Bay`ah and don't resist."
Do you believe in what's quoted in your books above? Yes or No?
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I'd like to see what you quoted above in an actual source, cause I assure you, such a text does not exist with any chain.
Bro hani i’ve asked this LIAR to produce any reliable sources for this and all he is doing is making remarks and comments diverting away from what he posted.
ICEMAN AKA AMEEN IS ALL HOT GAS AND NO SUBSTANCE!
He comes in with fake evidences and blatant LIES he has NOTHING else.
Watch how he responds to this post like a troll and start to accuse instead of answering the question at hand.
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We don't believe that Umar married a great granddaughter, just as we don't believe the Prophet s.a.w married under age girls. You believe in such nonsense. We don't. Your books are full of this.
Oh, forget about super human, there is Almighty Allah. According to your theory the Almighty Allah couldn't save mankind from Satan. Think again.
Iceman thinks before speaking, you don't.
Why are you jumping subjects? Stick to what I asked of bringing proof of your lie about Umar ra.
You are a Stupid man acting like a Christian missionary I bet you are a COWARD in front of non Muslims and bow down to their theories and their lies you STUPID WEAK man, you’re not even a man if you can’t defend the prophet sallalahu alaihewasalam.
NAUZOBILLAH!!!!
So what if prophet sallalahu alaihewasalam married Ayesha ra when she was young, can you not defend your prophet for a simple thing as this? Imam Ali ra never had an issue why do you? As far as I know khomeini and fadlullah believed she was young at marriage too.
We are talking marriage for love, respect and relationship a relationship that will automatically give you a place in jannah.......NOT FOR ANYTHING IMPURE you stupid man, do you NOT understand that He was the prophet of Allah swt?
You will defend cowardice of imams but will not defend your prophet who is the greatest imam you STUPID STUPID MAN!
Iceman LIES before thinking!
Sounds bout right👍
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It doesn't matter what ever excuse you come up with or which ever way you turn it, but you can't turn back the clock. What Umar said, did and how he responded is what he is and will be judged by. The matter is clear and you can carry on looking for excuses. I completely understand that Umar desperately needs to be protected here.
Allow me to focus on that portion of your comment, "which ever way you turn it", and see whose ideology fails from all sides.
1. Umar (ra), according to you, not only disobeyed the Prophet (saw) but also stopped others from bringing a pen and paper. For not taking a different course of action, Imam Ali (ra) is just as guilty. And if Imam Ali (ra) was subdued, your problem becomes manifold.
2. The Prophet (saw) was alive three days thereafter. Was Umar (ra) standing next to him the whole time to ensure nothing is written?
3. We all know what Shias hope the Prophet (saw) would have dictated, namely the successorship of Imam Ali (ra). Why make all this noise when you claim that the announcement was already made at Ghadeer?
4. In Kitab ul-Irshad, Shaykh Mufid makes a huge blunder in a haste (much like yourself). He narrates what happened after the Prophet (saw) asked the Companions (ra) to leave him alone.
"When they (the people) had left (the room), he (the Prophet) said: 'Send back to me my brother (Ali) and my uncle (Abbas).'
They sent for someone to call them and he brought them. When he had them sitting close, he (the Prophet) said: 'Uncle of the Apostle of Allah, will you accept my testamentary bequest (wasi), fulfill my promise, and carry out my religion?'
'Apostle of Allah, your uncle is an old man with the responsibilities of a large family,' answered Al-Abbas. 'You vie with the wind in liberality and generosity. You have made promises which your uncle could never fulfill.'
Then he (the Prophet) turned to Ali ibn Abi Talib, and said: 'Brother, will you accept my testamentary bequest (wasi), fulfill my promises, carry out my religion on my behalf and look after the affairs of my family after me?'
'Yes, Apostle of Allah,' he (Ali) replied." (Kitab Al-Irshad, by Shaykh Mufid, p.131)
After the Prophet (saw) had allegedly declared Imam Ali's (ra) successorship at Ghadeer, why would he (saw) then offer it to Abbas (ra)?
This is the level of Shia blunder, thanks to extreme misguidance as a result of blind hatred. They claim that Imam Ali (ra) was already appointed the successor at Ghadeer. Then, they further argue that his successorship would have been written down as a will. However, when no such thing was done in the days that the Prophet (saw) was alive, they further fabricated a follow-up situation in which they allege that the Prophet (saw) offered the leadership to Abbas (ra) before Imam Ali (ra), totally ignorant of the fact that this follow-up scenario totally discredits their first alleged claim which is that the fate of leadership was already sealed at Ghadeer.
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We don't believe that Umar married a great granddaughter, just as we don't believe the Prophet s.a.w married under age girls. You believe in such nonsense. We don't. Your books are full of this.
Oh, forget about super human, there is Almighty Allah. According to your theory the Almighty Allah couldn't save mankind from Satan. Think again.
Iceman thinks before speaking, you don't.
Based on what did you say” We don’t believe that umar married a granddaughter, just as we don’t believe the prophet s.a.w married underage girls🤪”
Anyone who studied history knows you just lied.
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Based on what did you say” We don’t believe that umar married a granddaughter, just as we don’t believe the prophet s.a.w married underage girls🤪”
Anyone who studied history knows you just lied.
He is full of it, he LIES for fun, he is so full of gas and when it does come out it’s just LIES and tantrums, It does make you think from which side he is talking from.🤔
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I got something for those of you demanding an 'authentic source' from iceman and I am interested to see how you gonna deflect from this one also.
al-Musannaf of Ibn Abu Shaybah | Volume 13 | Hadith 28601
From Mohammad b. Bashr, from Ubayd Allah b. Umran, from Zaid b. Aslam, from his father Aslam: "When Abu Bakr was given allegiance after the Prophet, Ali and Zubair entered the house of Fatima (AS), for consultation. When this fact was known by Umar, he entered the house of Fatima and said: "O daughter of the Prophet! I have not loved anyone as much as I loved your father, nor anyone after him more beloved to me than you. By Allah (Azwj), this shall not prevent me, if that group gathers in your house, to order the house to be burned over you", When Umar left, they (Ali and Zubair) came. Fatima said: "Do you know that Umar came and swore by Allah (Azwj) that if you came back, he shall burn the house over us." "By Allah, he will do what he swore.""
Now yes, before your start, this hadith in particular does not itself prove that ribs were broken and whips were cracked. But, if it's authenticity can be proven then that in conjecture with all the other narrations which are deemed as "weak" or "fabricated", by your cult, gives rise to an undeniable proof that Umar was most definitely the devil's right hand man for committing such atrocities.
Before providing some information about the hadith itself, it's important mention that this book predates the works of Bukhari and Muslim, and Ibn Abi Shaybah himself is one of the sunni'ss biggest scholars, revered by other big hitters like al Dahabi. So I must say that it is not one which can be simply ignored just because you mayhave not heard of it.
As for the Isnad , I will save you guys a lot of time and effort as it may be the case that you are fasting and dying of hunger and thirst. This specific chain is used numerous times throughout Bukhari and Muslim, so the individuals present in the chain do not have to be analysed as your "greats" have already done this job you. Thus making fortifying this hadith heavily.
Fortunately, for those of you that don't like to use logic when it comes to your deen and instead give precedence to the word of scholar just due to the merit of them being Arab. There is one desperate attempt made by a scholar to refute this proposed hadith which you can cling onto to help you go on with your lives, sleep at night, and not break your fast. This scholar deemed the narration weak by considering it to be a Musral report (disconnected) by foolishly claiming that Zayd b. Aslam was not present. But now I ask you, scroll up a little bit and check who was the first in the chain. It's Aslam not his son Zayd which the scholar mentions whilst rambling on live tv, desperately to downplay this hadith which was proposed to him by the presenter. And unfortunately that is all he had to say on the matter and the case was closed for him. I must say I was left astounded.
I have not seen any other good refutations for this hadtih and will be interested to see if anyone of you may have something which tops that poor attempt aforementioned. I'll tune in later tonight to see if anyone can reply objectively or simply just deliver subjective nonsense.
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Nope. He comes in like a bat with cheap shots and then flies back out again to save his skin.
Umar very clearly objected to what the Prophet s.a.w asked for and disregarded what the Prophet s.a.w had to write. That's the bottom line and you can continue to do your very best to make him look good as possible. 😊
Bro Hani disappears when he is caught out for his erroneous notions and simply moves on like nothing happened. A true mad lad. A good example of this is when he was having a back forth with Ice man on the matter of Saqifah a few years back (yes I know I am a bit of stalker) and after a great response from Iceman the guy just never opened that thread again I believe.
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The report of Aslam is also Mursal.
Ibn Ishaaq narrated this from Nafi’ who heard it from Ibn Omar that Omar bought Aslam after the death of the Prophet(saw) during the hajj. See Ma’rifat Al-Sahaba by Abu Nu’aim 1/255.
Hence, Aslam ibn Zayd was not a sahabi but a Tabi’i bought by Umar in year 11 AH when he came back from the Hajj. Also, see tahzib of ibn hajar : قال بن إسحاق بعث أبو بكر عمر سنة 11 فأقام للناس الحج وابتاع فيها أسلم مولاه
So we came to know that Aslam, mawla(servant) of Umar was not present during this so-called event. He came to madina during year 11 AH, most likely in Dhu al-hijjah which is the last month of Islamic calender. And Prophet(saw) died in year 11 AH during rabi’ al awwal which is third month in Islamic calendar. So Aslam was not present during the death of Prophet (saws) or bay’ah of Abu Bakr because he came only after Hajj of year 11 AH, that is, atleast nine months after the death of Prophet(saw), as Fatima(ra) died six months after the death of Prophet(saw).
Refer this article for details.
https://youpuncturedtheark.wordpress.com/2014/09/11/12-sunni-answers-to-shiapens-article-on-fadak-and-inheritance-of-prophetsaw-chapter-twelve/
Even if we assume it to be reliable all we see is that Rafidah have blown this incident out of proportion as per their habbit and have added fictitious stories to it. This report exposes what kind of fabricators Rafidah were.