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Fatima interpretation against Abu Baker is proven right by Quran.

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Abu Muhammad

Re: Fatima interpretation against Abu Baker is proven right by Quran.
« Reply #20 on: March 12, 2017, 01:41:14 AM »

You say you believe no one did inherit Isa (AS) in the sense of complete inheritance i.e both blood & purity.
*scratches head*

I'm scratching my head too...

Noor-us-Sunnah

Re: Fatima interpretation against Abu Baker is proven right by Quran.
« Reply #21 on: March 12, 2017, 04:55:50 AM »
What he was asking was specifically, that be inherited both in the sense a son would inherit from him, and in a sense a pure soul would inherit from him and take the mantle of leadership.

 Isma`eel ibn `Umar bin Katheer (700-774) stated:

لا أنه خشي من وراثتهم له ماله، فإن النبي أعظم منزلة وأجل قدراً من أن يشفق على ماله إلى ما هذا حده، وأن يأنف من وراثة عصباته له، ويسأل أن يكون له ولد ليحوز ميراثه دونهم

He(Zakariyyah) did not fear their inheritance of his money, as the prophets are much greater in rank and virtue than to care for the leftovers of this world and to be this upset that their relatives are going to inherit some money not his son.(TAFSEER IBN KATHEER).

Ala’-ul-Deen `Ali bin Muhammad al-Khazin (725) stated:

الأولى أن يحمل على ميراث غير المال لأن الأنبياء لم يرثوا المال وإنما يورثون العلم، ويبعد عن زكريا وهو نبي من الأنبياء أن يشفق على ماله أن يرثه بنو عمه، وإنما خاف أن يضيع بنو عمه دين الله ويغيروا أحكامه، وذلك لما أن شاهد من بني إسرائيل تبديل الدين وقتل الأنبياء. فسأل ربه ولداً صالحاً يأمنه على أمته ويرث نبوته وعلمه لئلا يضيع وهذا قول ابن عباس

It is more worthy to interpret this as the inheritance of anything aside from money, because prophets never gave money as inheritance only knowledge, it is unlikely that a prophet of God such as Zakariya would feel sadness for the fate of his money if his cousins were to inherit it. He only feared that they might lose the religion of Allah and corrupt its laws, this is based on what he had seen from Bani Isra’eel who altered religions and killed prophets. He thus asked his Lord for a righteous son to entrust the nation to him and to inherit his prophet-hood and knowledge so they may not be lost, this is the saying of ibn `Abbas.( LUBAB-UL-TA’WEEL LIL-KHAZIN


Zakariya asked his Lord for a successor to succeed him in prophet-hood. Zakariya being the pious prophet that he is, wished for Allah to grant him a successor to support him and carry on his teachings, he also asked God to honor him and favor him by keeping the prophet-hood within his lineage.

If you still argue zakariya(as) feared even for his material possession from his relatives then read this Shia hadeeth:

حدثنا أحمد بن زياد بن جعفر الهمداني رضي الله عنه قال حدثنا علي بن إبراهيم بن هاشم عن الريان بن الصلت قال سمعت الرضا عليه السلام يقول ما بعث الله عز وجل نبيا الا بتحريم الخمر وان يقر له بان الله يفعل ما يشاء وأن يكون في تراثه الكندر
Ahmad ibn Ziyad ibn Ja’far al-Hamadani – may God be pleased with him – narrated that Ali ibn Ibrahim ibn Hashem quoted on the authority of his father, on the authority of al-Ryan ibn al-Salt that he had heard Al-Reza (s) say, “All the Prophets which the Honorable the Exalted God sent, forbade wine and confessed that God would do whatever He wills. The Prophets (s) would leave behind ‘al-Kondor (chewing gum) as inheritance (implying that they would leave nothing behind).”[Uyun Akhbar al-Reza, Chapter 30, page 630]

Link

Re: Fatima interpretation against Abu Baker is proven right by Quran.
« Reply #22 on: March 15, 2017, 03:56:26 AM »
Anyone willing to address the op argument, they are welcome to.

Love of the family of Yaseen is the light of the heavens and the earth.

zaid_ibn_ali

Re: Fatima interpretation against Abu Baker is proven right by Quran.
« Reply #23 on: March 15, 2017, 01:17:20 PM »
Anyone willing to address the op argument, they are welcome to.

I did. You never replied.
OP states prophets are inherited, yet you stopped at Isa(AS).
I asked who inherited Isa(AS). You said no one did under your definition of complete inheritance.
You see how you contradicted yourself?

Link

Re: Fatima interpretation against Abu Baker is proven right by Quran.
« Reply #24 on: March 15, 2017, 03:24:33 PM »
Anyone willing to address the op argument, they are welcome to.

I did. You never replied.
OP states prophets are inherited, yet you stopped at Isa(AS).
I asked who inherited Isa(AS). You said no one did under your definition of complete inheritance.
You see how you contradicted yourself?

The Quran says that the Messengers had offsprings and wives(13:38)...I guess you have refuted Quran as well!



Love of the family of Yaseen is the light of the heavens and the earth.

zaid_ibn_ali

Re: Fatima interpretation against Abu Baker is proven right by Quran.
« Reply #25 on: March 15, 2017, 04:09:09 PM »
Anyone willing to address the op argument, they are welcome to.



I did. You never replied.
OP states prophets are inherited, yet you stopped at Isa(AS).
I asked who inherited Isa(AS). You said no one did under your definition of complete inheritance.
You see how you contradicted yourself?

The Quran says that the Messengers had offsprings and wives(13:38)...I guess you have refuted Quran as well!

It does not say every prophet had wives & offspring without any exceptions.
Now you would have to concede not all prophets are inherited by both blood & purity. You already acknowledged this in regards to Isa(AS) & ended up refuting yourself.

« Last Edit: March 15, 2017, 04:14:21 PM by zaid_ibn_ali »

Link

Re: Fatima interpretation against Abu Baker is proven right by Quran.
« Reply #26 on: March 16, 2017, 04:38:57 PM »
Anyone willing to address the op argument, they are welcome to.



I did. You never replied.
OP states prophets are inherited, yet you stopped at Isa(AS).
I asked who inherited Isa(AS). You said no one did under your definition of complete inheritance.
You see how you contradicted yourself?

The Quran says that the Messengers had offsprings and wives(13:38)...I guess you have refuted Quran as well!

It does not say every prophet had wives & offspring without any exceptions.
Now you would have to concede not all prophets are inherited by both blood & purity. You already acknowledged this in regards to Isa(AS) & ended up refuting yourself.

Where did I say "without exceptions"?

All I have to prove to prove Fatima is right is to prove a Prophet was inherited.

And I showed the prayer of Zakariya is paraphrased differently in Quran that the different paraphrases interpret one another.

No one has addressed that.

Love of the family of Yaseen is the light of the heavens and the earth.

zaid_ibn_ali

Re: Fatima interpretation against Abu Baker is proven right by Quran.
« Reply #27 on: March 17, 2017, 12:46:05 AM »
Anyone willing to address the op argument, they are welcome to.



I did. You never replied.
OP states prophets are inherited, yet you stopped at Isa(AS).
I asked who inherited Isa(AS). You said no one did under your definition of complete inheritance.
You see how you contradicted yourself?

The Quran says that the Messengers had offsprings and wives(13:38)...I guess you have refuted Quran as well!

It does not say every prophet had wives & offspring without any exceptions.
Now you would have to concede not all prophets are inherited by both blood & purity. You already acknowledged this in regards to Isa(AS) & ended up refuting yourself.

Where did I say "without exceptions"?

All I have to prove to prove Fatima is right is to prove a Prophet was inherited.



Thats just nonsensical.
Its like a person saying saying the Prophet Muhammad (SAW) had no father and to prove it they just have to prove a prophet never had a father (like Isa AS).

Your posts get stranger by the day.

Link

Re: Fatima interpretation against Abu Baker is proven right by Quran.
« Reply #28 on: March 17, 2017, 05:15:46 PM »

Thats just nonsensical.
Its like a person saying saying the Prophet Muhammad (SAW) had no father and to prove it they just have to prove a prophet never had a father (like Isa AS).

Your posts get stranger by the day.

Abu Baker claimed all Prophets don't inherit. The claim obviously meant without exception as he was applying it to Mohammad and Fatima not inheriting from him.

Fatima quoted some verses...and upon investigation, we find her interpretation is correct. All she has to do is show a Prophet is inherited and the claim of Abu Baker is shown false.

I've shown that her interpretation of those verses she quoted is corrected when we see other places where Zakariya is paraphrased!

The verses show what is meant by each and that is the nature of the Quran, nothing in it can't be solved by itself, it clarifies which interpretation is correct through chaining it's verses together!
Love of the family of Yaseen is the light of the heavens and the earth.

zaid_ibn_ali

Re: Fatima interpretation against Abu Baker is proven right by Quran.
« Reply #29 on: March 18, 2017, 11:48:08 AM »

Thats just nonsensical.
Its like a person saying saying the Prophet Muhammad (SAW) had no father and to prove it they just have to prove a prophet never had a father (like Isa AS).

Your posts get stranger by the day.

Abu Baker claimed all Prophets don't inherit. The claim obviously meant without exception as he was applying it to Mohammad and Fatima not inheriting from him.

Fatima quoted some verses...and upon investigation, we find her interpretation is correct. All she has to do is show a Prophet is inherited and the claim of Abu Baker is shown false.

I've shown that her interpretation of those verses she quoted is corrected when we see other places where Zakariya is paraphrased!

The verses show what is meant by each and that is the nature of the Quran, nothing in it can't be solved by itself, it clarifies which interpretation is correct through chaining it's verses together!

Where is it shown that a prophet was materially inherited by his family?
Show me an explicit proof please. Not some long winded philosophical attempted formula.

Link

Re: Fatima interpretation against Abu Baker is proven right by Quran.
« Reply #30 on: March 18, 2017, 04:09:15 PM »

Thats just nonsensical.
Its like a person saying saying the Prophet Muhammad (SAW) had no father and to prove it they just have to prove a prophet never had a father (like Isa AS).

Your posts get stranger by the day.

Abu Baker claimed all Prophets don't inherit. The claim obviously meant without exception as he was applying it to Mohammad and Fatima not inheriting from him.

Fatima quoted some verses...and upon investigation, we find her interpretation is correct. All she has to do is show a Prophet is inherited and the claim of Abu Baker is shown false.

I've shown that her interpretation of those verses she quoted is corrected when we see other places where Zakariya is paraphrased!

The verses show what is meant by each and that is the nature of the Quran, nothing in it can't be solved by itself, it clarifies which interpretation is correct through chaining it's verses together!

Where is it shown that a prophet was materially inherited by his family?
Show me an explicit proof please. Not some long winded philosophical attempted formula.

I already showed explicit proof. If looking at two paraphrases in Quran is a long-winded philosophical formula to you, then you ought to begin to love that kind of stuff and not avoid it.

Love of the family of Yaseen is the light of the heavens and the earth.

zaid_ibn_ali

Re: Fatima interpretation against Abu Baker is proven right by Quran.
« Reply #31 on: March 18, 2017, 04:15:20 PM »

Thats just nonsensical.
Its like a person saying saying the Prophet Muhammad (SAW) had no father and to prove it they just have to prove a prophet never had a father (like Isa AS).

Your posts get stranger by the day.

Abu Baker claimed all Prophets don't inherit. The claim obviously meant without exception as he was applying it to Mohammad and Fatima not inheriting from him.

Fatima quoted some verses...and upon investigation, we find her interpretation is correct. All she has to do is show a Prophet is inherited and the claim of Abu Baker is shown false.

I've shown that her interpretation of those verses she quoted is corrected when we see other places where Zakariya is paraphrased!

The verses show what is meant by each and that is the nature of the Quran, nothing in it can't be solved by itself, it clarifies which interpretation is correct through chaining it's verses together!

Where is it shown that a prophet was materially inherited by his family?
Show me an explicit proof please. Not some long winded philosophical attempted formula.

I already showed explicit proof. If looking at two paraphrases in Quran is a long-winded philosophical formula to you, then you ought to begin to love that kind of stuff and not avoid it.

Two paraphrases?
This isn't a puzzle.
I said EXPLICIT.


Link

Re: Fatima interpretation against Abu Baker is proven right by Quran.
« Reply #32 on: March 18, 2017, 04:30:28 PM »

Thats just nonsensical.
Its like a person saying saying the Prophet Muhammad (SAW) had no father and to prove it they just have to prove a prophet never had a father (like Isa AS).

Your posts get stranger by the day.

Abu Baker claimed all Prophets don't inherit. The claim obviously meant without exception as he was applying it to Mohammad and Fatima not inheriting from him.

Fatima quoted some verses...and upon investigation, we find her interpretation is correct. All she has to do is show a Prophet is inherited and the claim of Abu Baker is shown false.

I've shown that her interpretation of those verses she quoted is corrected when we see other places where Zakariya is paraphrased!

The verses show what is meant by each and that is the nature of the Quran, nothing in it can't be solved by itself, it clarifies which interpretation is correct through chaining it's verses together!

Where is it shown that a prophet was materially inherited by his family?
Show me an explicit proof please. Not some long winded philosophical attempted formula.

I already showed explicit proof. If looking at two paraphrases in Quran is a long-winded philosophical formula to you, then you ought to begin to love that kind of stuff and not avoid it.

Two paraphrases?
This isn't a puzzle.
I said EXPLICIT.

Paraphrasing is good way to show what God knows what Zakariya meant in his prayer.

And one verse shows him saying "grant me pure offspring" and the other instance is the long one in Suratal Maryam.

Together they show the proper meaning to both places.

Too bad Quran protects it's own interpretations for you guys. Fatima has been proven right through Quran.  You can call it puzzles but to me it's nothing but wisdom and beauty from God that he protects all the meanings in Quran through Quran.

« Last Edit: March 18, 2017, 04:31:36 PM by Link »
Love of the family of Yaseen is the light of the heavens and the earth.

zaid_ibn_ali

Re: Fatima interpretation against Abu Baker is proven right by Quran.
« Reply #33 on: March 18, 2017, 05:01:41 PM »
Well we have established there is nothing explicit in regards to families inheriting prophets materially.


Link

Re: Fatima interpretation against Abu Baker is proven right by Quran.
« Reply #34 on: March 18, 2017, 06:54:08 PM »
Well we have established there is nothing explicit in regards to families inheriting prophets materially.

What is the point of having a Surah, if all you take is explicit verses. They may as well not be linked, since how they are linked are implicit messages.
And why paraphrase the same conversation differently if we are not suppose to look at both instances!

God's curse is upon those who come with opposition to the family of Mohammad!
Love of the family of Yaseen is the light of the heavens and the earth.

 

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