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Ibn Sayyed: Dajjal or Companion?

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Ijtaba

Ibn Sayyed: Dajjal or Companion?
« on: August 10, 2017, 07:06:59 PM »
Salaam,

While reading about Ibn Sayyad I got confused. I want to know who ibn Sayyad really was?

Is he considered Dajjal or Companion of the Prophet (saww) by Ahlul Sunnah?

Hadiths indicating he might be Dajjal:

Sahih Bukhari
009.092.453 – Narrated Muhammad bin Al-Munkadir:

I saw Jabir bin ‘Abdullah swearing by Allah that Ibn Sayyad was the Dajjal. I said to Jabir, “How can you swear by Allah?” Jabir said, “I have heard ‘Umar swearing by Allah regarding this matter in the presence of the Prophet and the Prophet did not disapprove of it."

Sahih Bukhari
002.023.437 – Narrated Ibn ‘Umar:

‘Umar set out along with the Prophet (p.b.u.h) with a group of people to Ibn Saiyad till they saw him playing with the boys near the hillocks of Bani Mughala. Ibn Saiyad at that time was nearing his puberty and did not notice (us) until the Prophet stroked him with his hand and said to him, “Do you testify that I am Allah’s Apostle?” Ibn Saiyad looked at him and said, “I testify that you are the Messenger of illiterates.” Then Ibn Saiyad asked the Prophet (p.b.u.h), “Do you testify that I am Allah’s Apostle?” The Prophet (p.b.u.h) refuted it and said, “I believe in Allah and His Apostles.” Then he said (to Ibn Saiyad), “What do you think?” Ibn Saiyad answered, “True people and liars visit me.” The Prophet said, “You have been confused as to this matter.” Then the Prophet said to him, “I have kept something (in my mind) for you, (can you tell me that?)” Ibn Saiyad said, “It is Al-Dukh (the smoke).” (2) The Prophet said, “Let you be in ignominy (disgrace; dishonour; public contempt). You cannot cross your limits.” On that ‘Umar, said, “O Allah’s Apostle! Allow me to chop his head off.” The Prophet (p.b.u.h) said, “If he is he (i.e. Dajjal), then you cannot over-power him, and if he is not, then there is no use of murdering him.” (Ibn ‘Umar added): Later on Allah’s Apostle (p.b.u.h) once again went along with Ubai bin Ka’b to the date-palm trees (garden) where Ibn Saiyad was staying. The Prophet (p.b.u.h) wanted to hear something from Ibn Saiyad before Ibn Saiyad could see him, and the Prophet (p.b.u.h) saw him lying covered with a sheet and from where his murmurs were heard. Ibn Saiyad’s mother saw Allah’s Apostle while he was hiding himself behind the trunks of the date-palm trees. She addressed Ibn Saiyad, “O Saf ! (and this was the name of Ibn Saiyad) Here is Muhammad.” And with that Ibn Saiyad got up. The Prophet said, “Had this woman left him (Had she not disturbed him), then Ibn Saiyad would have revealed the reality of his case.

Sahih Muslim
Book 041, Number 7003:

Nafi' reported that Ibn 'Umar met Ibn Si'id on some of the paths of Medina and he said to him a word which enraged him and he was so much swollen with anger that the way was blocked. Ibn 'Umar went to Hafsa and informed her about this. Thereupon she said: May Allah have mercy upon you, why did you incite Ibn Sayyad in spite of the fact that you knew it would be the extreme anger which would make Dajjal appear in the world?

Hadith indicating he might not be Dajjal:

Sahih Muslim
Book 041, Hadith Number 6995.

Abu Sa'id Khudri reported: Ibn Sa'id said to me something for which I felt ashamed. He said: I can excuse others; but what has gone wrong with you, O Companions of Muhammad, that you take me as Dajjal? Has Allah's Apostle(may peace be upon him) not said that he would be a Jew whereas I am a Muslim and he also said that he would not have children, whereas I have children, and he also said: verily, Allah has prohibited him to enter Mecca whereas I have performed Pilgrimage, and he went on saying this that I was about to be impressed by his talk. He (however) said this also: I know where he (Dajjal) is and I know his father and I mother, and it was said to him: Won't you feel pleased if you would be the same person? Thereupon he said: If this offer is made to me, I would not resent that.


Reading these hadiths it is known that Ibn Sayyad was Companion of Prophet (saww) who was considered by other Companions of Prophet (saww) as being Dajjal irrespective of not fulfulling the conditions of Dajjal. However Ibn Sayyad being a Companion of Prophet (saww) was willing to accept the offer of becoming Dajjal if such an offer was made to him. Its really strange that a Muslim who is Companion of Prophet (saww) to accept such an evil offer. Was he really a Muslim or hypocrite?


Hani

Re: Ibn Sayyed: Dajjal or Companion?
« Reply #1 on: August 10, 2017, 09:31:03 PM »
Salam,

I believe this is due to the limited information the Muslims had on certain figures and this includes the Prophet (saw) himself. Many people believed Ibn `Abdul-`Aziz was the Mahdi, many others believed this or that person to be so and so etc... Everyone on the face of this planet could only know matters of the unseen based on the available revelation.

What was revealed about Dajjal were some of his features, characteristics and associated events. The Prophet (saw) was unsure as can be clearly seen nor were the Companions. It seems that this filthy liar was branded as Dajjal as he fit into most descriptions but with later revelation he was cleared (as can be seen in the last report). As for the first report I wouldn't consider it since it can easily be a misunderstanding, it's very possible that he was just called "Dajjal/Liar" instead of "The Dajjal".
« Last Edit: August 10, 2017, 09:46:19 PM by Hani »
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

Rationalist

Re: Ibn Sayyed: Dajjal or Companion?
« Reply #2 on: August 11, 2017, 12:44:38 AM »
These are one of those bed times stories invented to keep the Muslim mind occupied from the real issues.
Also, we have many romantic narrations of the Mahdi as well, in both Sunni and 12er Shia hadith books.

Noor-us-Sunnah

Re: Ibn Sayyed: Dajjal or Companion?
« Reply #3 on: August 11, 2017, 01:56:12 AM »
Salaam,

While reading about Ibn Sayyad I got confused. I want to know who ibn Sayyad really was?

Is he considered Dajjal or Companion of the Prophet (saww) by Ahlul Sunnah?


Salaam,

As per the authentic ahadeeth wherein Prophet(saws) examines Ibn Sayyad, it indicates that, at that time it was not revealed to him by Wahy whether Ibn Sayyad was the Dajjaal or not.

I don't think he is considered as a Sahabi, I don't know when did he bring Emaan, I think he did after the death of Prophet(saws).

Ijtaba

Re: Ibn Sayyed: Dajjal or Companion?
« Reply #4 on: August 15, 2017, 11:23:55 AM »
Salam,

I believe this is due to the limited information the Muslims had on certain figures and this includes the Prophet (saw) himself. Many people believed Ibn `Abdul-`Aziz was the Mahdi, many others believed this or that person to be so and so etc... Everyone on the face of this planet could only know matters of the unseen based on the available revelation.

What was revealed about Dajjal were some of his features, characteristics and associated events. The Prophet (saw) was unsure as can be clearly seen nor were the Companions. It seems that this filthy liar was branded as Dajjal as he fit into most descriptions but with later revelation he was cleared (as can be seen in the last report). As for the first report I wouldn't consider it since it can easily be a misunderstanding, it's very possible that he was just called "Dajjal/Liar" instead of "The Dajjal".

Wasalaam Hani.

From what I came to know by studying hadiths is that ibn Sayyad is "The Dajjal" and not some street magician because most of the Sahabas feared him and disliked being near him. Ibn Umar was curious in knowing when would ibn Sayyad come in his true form as prophesied by the Prophet (saww). Highly respected companions such as Jabir ibn Abdullah and  Umar ibn Khattab swore by ALLAH (SWT) that ibn Sayyad was The Dajjal. Ummul Momineen Hafsa bint Umar also believed ibn Sayyad to be The Dajjal. She revealed some interesting fact about ibn Sayyad. According to her ibn Sayyad was somewhat like Hulk i.e. whenever Bruce Banner became angry he transformed into Hulk. Similarly The Dajjal would only appear when ibn Sayyad would become angry.

Coming to my question I want to know what is ibn Sayyad according to Ahlul Sunnah. Is he a Companion... if not companion then is he believed to be amongst Tabi‘un?

Noor-us-Sunnah

Re: Ibn Sayyed: Dajjal or Companion?
« Reply #5 on: August 15, 2017, 11:40:55 AM »
Salam,

I believe this is due to the limited information the Muslims had on certain figures and this includes the Prophet (saw) himself. Many people believed Ibn `Abdul-`Aziz was the Mahdi, many others believed this or that person to be so and so etc... Everyone on the face of this planet could only know matters of the unseen based on the available revelation.

What was revealed about Dajjal were some of his features, characteristics and associated events. The Prophet (saw) was unsure as can be clearly seen nor were the Companions. It seems that this filthy liar was branded as Dajjal as he fit into most descriptions but with later revelation he was cleared (as can be seen in the last report). As for the first report I wouldn't consider it since it can easily be a misunderstanding, it's very possible that he was just called "Dajjal/Liar" instead of "The Dajjal".

Wasalaam Hani.

From what I came to know by studying hadiths is that ibn Sayyad is "The Dajjal" and not some street magician because most of the Sahabas feared him and disliked being near him. Ibn Umar was curious in knowing when would ibn Sayyad come in his true form as prophesied by the Prophet (saww). Highly respected companions such as Jabir ibn Abdullah and  Umar ibn Khattab swore by ALLAH (SWT) that ibn Sayyad was The Dajjal. Ummul Momineen Hafsa bint Umar also believed ibn Sayyad to be The Dajjal. She revealed some interesting fact about ibn Sayyad. According to her ibn Sayyad was somewhat like Hulk i.e. whenever Bruce Banner became angry he transformed into Hulk. Similarly The Dajjal would only appear when ibn Sayyad would become angry.

Ibn Sayyad had some features which resembled with dajjal. But he wasn't dajjal, since he had some other features which dajjal couldn't have, which he himself used to defend himself from Sahaba who thought he was dajjal. Moreover, Prophet(saws) saw dajjal in his dream and said that he resembled "Ibn Qatan" , he didn't say dajjal resembled "Ibn Sayyad".
« Last Edit: August 15, 2017, 11:43:37 AM by Noor-us-Sunnah »

Ijtaba

Re: Ibn Sayyed: Dajjal or Companion?
« Reply #6 on: August 17, 2017, 11:50:25 AM »
Ibn Sayyad had some features which resembled with dajjal. But he wasn't dajjal, since he had some other features which dajjal couldn't have, which he himself used to defend himself from Sahaba who thought he was dajjal. Moreover, Prophet(saws) saw dajjal in his dream and said that he resembled "Ibn Qatan" , he didn't say dajjal resembled "Ibn Sayyad".

Ibn Sayyad is dajjal. When ibn sayyad would transform into dajjal he would be resembling ibn Qatan.

Sahih Muslim Book 041, Hadith Number 6994.
Abu Sa'id reported: I accompanied Ibn Sayyad to Mecca and he said to me: What I have gathered from people is that they think that I am Dajjal. Have you not heard Allah's Messenger (may peace upon him) as saying: He will have no children, I said: Yes, of course. Thereupon he said: But I have children. Have you not heard Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: He would not enter Mecca and Medina? I said: Yes, of course. Thereupon he said I have been once in Medina and now I intend to go to Mecca. And he said to me at the end of his talk: By Allah: I know his place of birth his abode where he is just now. He (Abu Sa'id) said: This caused confusion in my mind (in regard to his identity).

According to Ahlul Sunnah no one knew the place of dajjal's birth nor his present location. Ibn Sayyad claimed he knew dajjal's place of birth & present location.

Sahih Muslim Book 041, Hadith Number 6997.
This hadith has transmitted on the authority of Abu Sa'id that Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) asked Ibn Sa'id about the earth of Paradise. Thereupon he said: Abu'l-Qasim, It is like a fine white musk, whereupon he (the Holy Prophet) said: 'You have told the truth.

How did ibn Sayyad know what the earth of Paradise was made of?

Sahih Muslim Book 041, Hadith Number 6999.
'Muhammad b. Munkadir reported: As I saw Jabir b. 'Abdullah taking an oath in the name of Allah that it was Ibn Sa'id who was the Dajjal I said: Do you take an oath in the name of Allah? Thereupon he said: I heard 'Umar taking an oath in the presence of Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) to this effect but Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) did not disapprove of it.

Two notable and highly respected companions took an oath in the Name of ALLAH (SWT) that ibn Sayyad is dajjal. Taking oath in the Name of ALLAH (SWT) is a serious matter and is not to be taken lightly.

Sahih Muslim Book 041, Hadith Number 7003.
Nafi' reported that Ibn 'Umar met Ibn Si'id on some of the paths of Medina and he said to him a word which enraged him and he was so much swollen with anger that the way was blocked. Ibn 'Umar went to Hafsa and informed her about this. Thereupon she said: May Allah have mercy upon you, why did you incite Ibn Sayyad in spite of the fact that you knew it would be the extreme anger which would make Dajjal appear in the world?

Ummul Momineen Hafsa bint Umar also believed ibn Sayyad should not be incited as it would be extreme anger that would make dajjal to appear. This seems somewhat like Hulk. Hulk only appears when Bruce gets extremely angry.

Abu Dawud Book 032, Hadith Number 4314.
Narated By Jabir ibn Abdullah : The Apostle of Allah (pbuh) said one day from the pulpit: When some people were sailing in the sea, their food was finished. An island appeared to them. They went out seeking bread. They were met by the Jassasah (the Antichrist's spy).

I said to AbuSalamah: What is the Jassasah? He replied: A woman trailing the hair of her skin and of her head. She said: In this castle. He then narrated the rest of the (No. 4311) tradition. He asked about the palm-trees of Baysan and the spring of Zughar. He said: He is the Antichrist. Ibn Salamah said to me: There is something more in this tradition, which I could not remember. He said: Jabir testified that it was he who was Ibn Sayyad.

I said: He died. He said: Let him die. I said: He accepted Islam. He said: Let him accept Islam. I said: He entered Medina. He said: Let him enter Medina.


Sahabi Jabir bin Abdullah testified ibn Sayyad is dajjal.

Noor-us-Sunnah

Re: Ibn Sayyed: Dajjal or Companion?
« Reply #7 on: August 17, 2017, 01:24:49 PM »
Ibn Sayyad is dajjal. When ibn sayyad would transform into dajjal he would be resembling ibn Qatan.
That's incorrect.

You say: "He WOULD transform into dajjal"... So he was not dajjal, because dajjal did exist during time of Prophet(saws), so your theory of Ibn Sayyad's transformation is baseless.

Prophet(saws) said: Have I not, told you an account (of the Dajjal) like this? 'The people said: Yes, and this account narrated by Tamim Dari was liked by me for it corroborates the account which I gave to you in regard to him (Dajjal) at Medina and Mecca. Behold he (Dajjal) is in the Syrian sea (Mediterranean) or the Yemen sea (Arabian sea). Nay, on the contrary, he is in the east, he is in the east, he is in the east, and he pointed with his hand towards the east. [Sahih Muslim Book 41, Hadith 7028]



Sahih Muslim Book 041, Hadith Number 6994.
Abu Sa'id reported: I accompanied Ibn Sayyad to Mecca and he said to me: What I have gathered from people is that they think that I am Dajjal. Have you not heard Allah's Messenger (may peace upon him) as saying: He will have no children, I said: Yes, of course. Thereupon he said: But I have children. Have you not heard Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: He would not enter Mecca and Medina? I said: Yes, of course. Thereupon he said I have been once in Medina and now I intend to go to Mecca. And he said to me at the end of his talk: By Allah: I know his place of birth his abode where he is just now. He (Abu Sa'id) said: This caused confusion in my mind (in regard to his identity).

According to Ahlul Sunnah no one knew the place of dajjal's birth nor his present location. Ibn Sayyad claimed he knew dajjal's place of birth & present location.
Ibn Sayyad initially was a kind of Soothsayer, and Soothsayers are helped by Shayateen amongst Jinn, they transmit some information about the future events to their associates, but this information is again dubious, it could be correct or incorrect.

Moreover, He used the hadeeth of Prophet(saws) to defend himself saying Dajjal will not have children, but he had children. Now, whether he supposedly transforms into dajjal or not, as per your baseless theory, but still it will be considered that, this person had children, since he won't become a completely different person.



Sahih Muslim Book 041, Hadith Number 6997.
This hadith has transmitted on the authority of Abu Sa'id that Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) asked Ibn Sa'id about the earth of Paradise. Thereupon he said: Abu'l-Qasim, It is like a fine white musk, whereupon he (the Holy Prophet) said: 'You have told the truth.

How did ibn Sayyad know what the earth of Paradise was made of?

Ibn Sayyad initially was a kind of Soothsayer, and Soothsayers are helped by Shayateen amongst Jinn, they transmit some information about the future events to their associates, but this information is again dubious, it could be correct or incorrect.

 Narrated Abu Huraira: The Prophet (ﷺ) said, "When Allah has ordained some affair in the Heaven, the angels beat with their wings in obedience to His statement, which sounds like a chain dragged over a rock." (`Ali and other sub-narrators said, "The sound reaches them.") "Until when fear is banished from their (angels) hearts, they (angels) say, 'What was it that your Lord said? They say, 'The truth; And He is the Most High, the Most Great.' (34.23) Then those who gain a hearing by stealing (i.e. devils) will hear Allah's Statement:-- 'Those who gain a hearing by stealing, (stand one over the other like this). (Sufyan, to illustrate this, spread the fingers of his right hand and placed them one over the other horizontally.) A flame may overtake and burn the eavesdropper before conveying the news to the one below him; or it may not overtake him till he has conveyed it to the one below him, who in his turn, conveys it to the one below him, and so on till they convey the news to the earth. (Or probably Sufyan said, "Till the news reaches the earth.") Then the news is inspired to a sorcerer who would add a hundred lies to it. His prophecy will prove true (as far as the heavenly news is concerned). The people will say. 'Didn't he tell us that on such-and-such a day, such-and-such a thing will happen? We have found that is true because of the true news heard from heaven." [Sahih Bukhari, Book 65, Hadith 4701]



Sahih Muslim Book 041, Hadith Number 6999.
'Muhammad b. Munkadir reported: As I saw Jabir b. 'Abdullah taking an oath in the name of Allah that it was Ibn Sa'id who was the Dajjal I said: Do you take an oath in the name of Allah? Thereupon he said: I heard 'Umar taking an oath in the presence of Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) to this effect but Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) did not disapprove of it.

Two notable and highly respected companions took an oath in the Name of ALLAH (SWT) that ibn Sayyad is dajjal. Taking oath in the Name of ALLAH (SWT) is a serious matter and is not to be taken lightly.

This could have happened before the below incident took place, and at that time even Prophet(saws) wasn't sure who dajjal was and then Prophet(saws) himself wanted to figure out of Ibn Sayyad was dajjal or not, as we can see in the below incident. You can see that Prophet(saws) himself wasn't certain, He said IF he is dajjal Umar won't be able to kill him and IF HE IS NOT......

Moreover, Ibn Sayyad died, however Prophet(saws) said, Umar(ra) won't be able to kill Ibn Sayyad if he was dajjal, as per your theory, Ibn Sayyad hadn't transformed into dajjal that time, he was in his normal state.

 'Abdullah b. Umar reported: 'Umar b. Khattab went along with Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) in the company of some persons to Ibn Sayyad that he found him playing with children near the battlement of Bani Maghala and Ibn Sayyad was at that time just at the threshold of adolescence and he did not perceive (the presence of Holy Prophet) until Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) struck his back with his hands. Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) said: Ibn Sayyad, don't you bear witness that I am the messenger of Allah? Ibn Sayyad looked toward him and he said: I bear witness to the fact that you the messenger of the unlettered. Ibn Sayyad said to the Allah's Messenger (ﷺ): Do you bear witness to the fact that I am the messenger of Allah? Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) rejected this and said: I affirm my faith in Allah and in His messengers. Then Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) said to him: What do you see? Ibn Sayyad said: It is a Dukh. Thereupon Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) said: May you be disgraced and dishonoured, you would not not be able to go beyond your rank. 'Umar b. Khattab said: Allah's Messenger, permit me that I should strike his neck. Thereupon Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) said: If he is the same (Dajjal) who would appear near the Last Hour, you would not be able to overpower him, and if he is not that there is no good for you to kill him. 'Abdullah b. 'Umar further narrated that after some time Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) and Ubayy b. Ka'b went towards the palm trees where Ibn Sayyad was. When Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) went near the tree he hid himself behind a tree with the intention of hearing something from Ibn sayyad before Ibn Sayyad could see him, but Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) saw him on a bed with a blanket around him from which a murmuring sound was being heard and Ibn Sayyad's mother saw Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) behind the trunk of the palm tree. She said to Ibn Sayyad: Saf (that being his name), here is Muhammad. Thereupon Ibn Sayyad jumped up murmuring and Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) said: If she had left him alone he would have made things clear. Abdullah b. Umar told that Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) stood up amongst the people and lauded Allah as He deserved, then he made a mention of the Dajjal and said: I warn you of him and there is no Prophet who has not warned his people against the Dajjal. Even Noah warned (against him) but I am going to tell you a thing which no Prophet told his people. You must know that he (the Dajjal) is one-eyed and Allah, the Exalted and Glorious, is not one-eyed. Ibn Shihab said: 'Umar b. Thabit al-Ansari informed me that some of the Companions of Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) informed him that the day when Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) warned people against the Dajjal, he also said: There would be written between his two eyes (the word) Kafir (infidel) and everyone who would resent his deeds would be able to read or every Muslim would be about to read, and he also said: Bear this thing in mind that none amongst you would be able to see Allah, the Exalted and Glorious, until he dies. [Sahih Muslim Book 41, Hadith 7000]


Sahih Muslim Book 041, Hadith Number 7003.
Nafi' reported that Ibn 'Umar met Ibn Si'id on some of the paths of Medina and he said to him a word which enraged him and he was so much swollen with anger that the way was blocked. Ibn 'Umar went to Hafsa and informed her about this. Thereupon she said: May Allah have mercy upon you, why did you incite Ibn Sayyad in spite of the fact that you knew it would be the extreme anger which would make Dajjal appear in the world?

Ummul Momineen Hafsa bint Umar also believed ibn Sayyad should not be incited as it would be extreme anger that would make dajjal to appear. This seems somewhat like Hulk. Hulk only appears when Bruce gets extremely angry.
That Advice from Hafsa(ra) is out of caution. Due to info spread around regarding Ibn Sayyad, she seemed to take the path of caution. She wasn't certain.


Abu Dawud Book 032, Hadith Number 4314.
Narated By Jabir ibn Abdullah : The Apostle of Allah (pbuh) said one day from the pulpit: When some people were sailing in the sea, their food was finished. An island appeared to them. They went out seeking bread. They were met by the Jassasah (the Antichrist's spy).

I said to AbuSalamah: What is the Jassasah? He replied: A woman trailing the hair of her skin and of her head. She said: In this castle. He then narrated the rest of the (No. 4311) tradition. He asked about the palm-trees of Baysan and the spring of Zughar. He said: He is the Antichrist. Ibn Salamah said to me: There is something more in this tradition, which I could not remember. He said: Jabir testified that it was he who was Ibn Sayyad.

I said: He died. He said: Let him die. I said: He accepted Islam. He said: Let him accept Islam. I said: He entered Medina. He said: Let him enter Medina.


Sahabi Jabir bin Abdullah testified ibn Sayyad is dajjal.

This report is weak and unreliable.

Moreover, The hadeeth says Ibn Sayyad died. But we believe that Dajjal is alive.

Imam Dhahabi stated: We know of no ‘awaited’ person who is alive—even before the advent of Islam—except for the two Messiahs: the Messiah of guidance (who is currently in the heavens) and the Messiah of misguidance (who is shackled up on an island off the coast of the Mediterranean Sea). He is the Dajjal, the worst possible thing awaited. The Messiah of guidance, ‘Isa ibn Maryam ‘alayh al Salam will eventually kill him near the Gate of Ludd . [Al Muqaddimah al Zahra’ fi Idah al Imamat al Kubra, page 18]


Touheedibhay

Re: Ibn Sayyed: Dajjal or Companion?
« Reply #8 on: August 17, 2017, 06:08:47 PM »
Salaam,

While reading about Ibn Sayyad I got confused. I want to know who ibn Sayyad really was?

Is he considered Dajjal or Companion of the Prophet (saww) by Ahlul Sunnah?

Hadiths indicating he might be Dajjal:

Sahih Bukhari
009.092.453 – Narrated Muhammad bin Al-Munkadir:

I saw Jabir bin ‘Abdullah swearing by Allah that Ibn Sayyad was the Dajjal. I said to Jabir, “How can you swear by Allah?” Jabir said, “I have heard ‘Umar swearing by Allah regarding this matter in the presence of the Prophet and the Prophet did not disapprove of it."

Sahih Bukhari
002.023.437 – Narrated Ibn ‘Umar:

‘Umar set out along with the Prophet (p.b.u.h) with a group of people to Ibn Saiyad till they saw him playing with the boys near the hillocks of Bani Mughala. Ibn Saiyad at that time was nearing his puberty and did not notice (us) until the Prophet stroked him with his hand and said to him, “Do you testify that I am Allah’s Apostle?” Ibn Saiyad looked at him and said, “I testify that you are the Messenger of illiterates.” Then Ibn Saiyad asked the Prophet (p.b.u.h), “Do you testify that I am Allah’s Apostle?” The Prophet (p.b.u.h) refuted it and said, “I believe in Allah and His Apostles.” Then he said (to Ibn Saiyad), “What do you think?” Ibn Saiyad answered, “True people and liars visit me.” The Prophet said, “You have been confused as to this matter.” Then the Prophet said to him, “I have kept something (in my mind) for you, (can you tell me that?)” Ibn Saiyad said, “It is Al-Dukh (the smoke).” (2) The Prophet said, “Let you be in ignominy (disgrace; dishonour; public contempt). You cannot cross your limits.” On that ‘Umar, said, “O Allah’s Apostle! Allow me to chop his head off.” The Prophet (p.b.u.h) said, “If he is he (i.e. Dajjal), then you cannot over-power him, and if he is not, then there is no use of murdering him.” (Ibn ‘Umar added): Later on Allah’s Apostle (p.b.u.h) once again went along with Ubai bin Ka’b to the date-palm trees (garden) where Ibn Saiyad was staying. The Prophet (p.b.u.h) wanted to hear something from Ibn Saiyad before Ibn Saiyad could see him, and the Prophet (p.b.u.h) saw him lying covered with a sheet and from where his murmurs were heard. Ibn Saiyad’s mother saw Allah’s Apostle while he was hiding himself behind the trunks of the date-palm trees. She addressed Ibn Saiyad, “O Saf ! (and this was the name of Ibn Saiyad) Here is Muhammad.” And with that Ibn Saiyad got up. The Prophet said, “Had this woman left him (Had she not disturbed him), then Ibn Saiyad would have revealed the reality of his case.

Sahih Muslim
Book 041, Number 7003:

Nafi' reported that Ibn 'Umar met Ibn Si'id on some of the paths of Medina and he said to him a word which enraged him and he was so much swollen with anger that the way was blocked. Ibn 'Umar went to Hafsa and informed her about this. Thereupon she said: May Allah have mercy upon you, why did you incite Ibn Sayyad in spite of the fact that you knew it would be the extreme anger which would make Dajjal appear in the world?

Hadith indicating he might not be Dajjal:

Sahih Muslim
Book 041, Hadith Number 6995.

Abu Sa'id Khudri reported: Ibn Sa'id said to me something for which I felt ashamed. He said: I can excuse others; but what has gone wrong with you, O Companions of Muhammad, that you take me as Dajjal? Has Allah's Apostle(may peace be upon him) not said that he would be a Jew whereas I am a Muslim and he also said that he would not have children, whereas I have children, and he also said: verily, Allah has prohibited him to enter Mecca whereas I have performed Pilgrimage, and he went on saying this that I was about to be impressed by his talk. He (however) said this also: I know where he (Dajjal) is and I know his father and I mother, and it was said to him: Won't you feel pleased if you would be the same person? Thereupon he said: If this offer is made to me, I would not resent that.


Reading these hadiths it is known that Ibn Sayyad was Companion of Prophet (saww) who was considered by other Companions of Prophet (saww) as being Dajjal irrespective of not fulfulling the conditions of Dajjal. However Ibn Sayyad being a Companion of Prophet (saww) was willing to accept the offer of becoming Dajjal if such an offer was made to him. Its really strange that a Muslim who is Companion of Prophet (saww) to accept such an evil offer. Was he really a Muslim or hypocrite?
Can i know the definetion of companion of prophet sallala ho ala ha wa sallam? You ask a question and then answer himself. Feeling that you are confuse and want to target some personalities with your confuse questions.

Ijtaba

Re: Ibn Sayyed: Dajjal or Companion?
« Reply #9 on: August 17, 2017, 06:59:20 PM »
Prophet (saws) said: Have I not, told you an account (of the Dajjal) like this? 'The people said: Yes, and this account narrated by Tamim Dari was liked by me for it corroborates the account which I gave to you in regard to him (Dajjal) at Medina and Mecca. Behold he (Dajjal) is in the Syrian sea (Mediterranean) or the Yemen sea (Arabian sea). Nay, on the contrary, he is in the east, he is in the east, he is in the east, and he pointed with his hand towards the east.[Sahih Muslim Book 41, Hadith 7028]

 'Abdullah b. Umar reported: 'Umar b. Khattab went along with Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) in the company of some persons to Ibn Sayyad that he found him playing with children near the battlement of Bani Maghala and Ibn Sayyad was at that time just at the threshold of adolescence and he did not perceive (the presence of Holy Prophet) until Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) struck his back with his hands. Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) said: Ibn Sayyad, don't you bear witness that I am the messenger of Allah? Ibn Sayyad looked toward him and he said: I bear witness to the fact that you the messenger of the unlettered. Ibn Sayyad said to the Allah's Messenger (ﷺ): Do you bear witness to the fact that I am the messenger of Allah? Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) rejected this and said: I affirm my faith in Allah and in His messengers. Then Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) said to him: What do you see? Ibn Sayyad said: It is a Dukh. Thereupon Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) said: May you be disgraced and dishonoured, you would not not be able to go beyond your rank. 'Umar b. Khattab said: Allah's Messenger, permit me that I should strike his neck. Thereupon Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) said: If he is the same (Dajjal) who would appear near the Last Hour, you would not be able to overpower him, and if he is not that there is no good for you to kill him. 'Abdullah b. 'Umar further narrated that after some time Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) and Ubayy b. Ka'b went towards the palm trees where Ibn Sayyad was. When Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) went near the tree he hid himself behind a tree with the intention of hearing something from Ibn sayyad before Ibn Sayyad could see him,[/color] but Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) saw him on a bed with a blanket around him from which a murmuring sound was being heard and Ibn Sayyad's mother saw Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) behind the trunk of the palm tree. She said to Ibn Sayyad: Saf (that being his name), here is Muhammad. Thereupon Ibn Sayyad jumped up murmuring and Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) said: If she had left him alone he would have made things clear. Abdullah b. Umar told that Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) stood up amongst the people and lauded Allah as He deserved, then he made a mention of the Dajjal and said: I warn you of him and there is no Prophet who has not warned his people against the Dajjal. Even Noah warned (against him) but I am going to tell you a thing which no Prophet told his people. You must know that he (the Dajjal) is one-eyed and Allah, the Exalted and Glorious, is not one-eyed. Ibn Shihab said: 'Umar b. Thabit al-Ansari informed me that some of the Companions of Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) informed him that the day when Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) warned people against the Dajjal, he also said: There would be written between his two eyes (the word) Kafir (infidel) and everyone who would resent his deeds would be able to read or every Muslim would be about to read, and he also said: Bear this thing in mind that none amongst you would be able to see Allah, the Exalted and Glorious, until he dies. [Sahih Muslim Book 41, Hadith 7000]

Prophet (saww) mentioned following things about dajjal:

- he is in the Syrian sea (Mediterranean) or the Yemen sea (Arabian sea) or in the east.

- he is one-eyed.

- there would be written between his two eyes (the word) Kafir which would be read by Muslim.

Yet Prophet (saww) went with his companions to ibn sayyad to ascertain whether he was dajjal (who would appear at the Last Hour) or not? Didn't the Prophet (saww) & his companions know that ibn sayyad isn't living in the east, nor is he one-eyed nor the word kafir is written between his eyes. Then why did Prophet (saww) get confused? If no wahy came regarding ibn sayyad then why did the Prophet (saww) suspect that ibn sayyad might be the Dajjal who is to come at the Last Hour?

Sahih Muslim Book 041, Hadith Number 6995.
Abu Sa'id Khudri reported: Ibn Sa'id said to me something for which I felt ashamed. He said: I can excuse others; but what has gone wrong with you, O Companions of Muhammad, that you take me as Dajjal? Has Allah's Apostle(may peace be upon him) not said that he would be a Jew whereas I am a Muslim and he also said that he would not have children, whereas I have children, and he also said: verily, Allah has prohibited him to enter Mecca whereas I have performed Pilgrimage, and he went on saying this that I was about to be impressed by his talk. He (however) said this also: I know where he (Dajjal) is and I know his father and I mother, and it was said to him: Won't you feel pleased if you would be the same person? Thereupon he said: If this offer is made to me, I would not resent that.

Why did Companions consider ibn Sayyad to be dajjal when they were clearly informed that dajjal is one-eyed, is chained in shackles in some eastern island, the word kafir is written between his two eyes? Were they also confused?

Why did ibn sayyad confuse Abu Sa'id Khudri by first convincing him that he is not dajjal and then saying he has knowledge about dajjal which none has other than him?

Touheedibhay

Re: Ibn Sayyed: Dajjal or Companion?
« Reply #10 on: August 17, 2017, 07:45:20 PM »
what is the purpose of this question? you want to prove ibn sayyed dajjal because with this prove you want to say that companion of the prophet Sallala ho ala ha wa alihi wa sallam are non muslim and hypocrite. as you mention in his comment. dear carry your work with steps. first prove him companion of prophet sallala ho ala ha wa alihi wa sallam and then prove that he is dajjal and then prove him the great dajjal(dajjal e akbar) and then the next step.you asked a question from ahlesunnah and then himself give answer that he is companion and then himslef prove that he is dajjal.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2017, 07:56:46 PM by Touheedibhay »

Ijtaba

Re: Ibn Sayyed: Dajjal or Companion?
« Reply #11 on: August 18, 2017, 10:57:46 AM »
what is the purpose of this question? you want to prove ibn sayyed dajjal because with this prove you want to say that companion of the prophet Sallala ho ala ha wa alihi wa sallam are non muslim and hypocrite. as you mention in his comment. dear carry your work with steps. first prove him companion of prophet sallala ho ala ha wa alihi wa sallam and then prove that he is dajjal and then prove him the great dajjal(dajjal e akbar) and then the next step.you asked a question from ahlesunnah and then himself give answer that he is companion and then himslef prove that he is dajjal.

The purpose of starting this thread was to know the view of Ahlul Sunnah regarding ibn Sayyad. Is he believed to be from Sahabah or Tabi‘un?

Touheedibhay

Re: Ibn Sayyed: Dajjal or Companion?
« Reply #12 on: August 18, 2017, 11:22:22 AM »
what is the purpose of this question? you want to prove ibn sayyed dajjal because with this prove you want to say that companion of the prophet Sallala ho ala ha wa alihi wa sallam are non muslim and hypocrite. as you mention in his comment. dear carry your work with steps. first prove him companion of prophet sallala ho ala ha wa alihi wa sallam and then prove that he is dajjal and then prove him the great dajjal(dajjal e akbar) and then the next step.you asked a question from ahlesunnah and then himself give answer that he is companion and then himslef prove that he is dajjal.

The purpose of starting this thread was to know the view of Ahlul Sunnah regarding ibn Sayyad. Is he believed to be from Sahabah or Tabi‘un?
Dear for sahabi there are some conditions. He meet with prophet sallalla ho ala ha wa alihi wa sallam in the condition of iman and died with iman. We dont know the ending of ibn sayyed. Some reports said he disappeared. According to ahlesunnah he is not dajjal e akbar.

Hani

Re: Ibn Sayyed: Dajjal or Companion?
« Reply #13 on: August 19, 2017, 03:49:18 AM »
If you're asking whether he's a Sahabi or not, he seems to be a Tabi`ee:

الذهبي في كتابه (تجريد أسماء الصحابة) فقال: (عبد الله بن صياد أورده ابن شاهين، وقال: هو ابن صائد كان أبوه يهوديا فولد عبد الله أعور مختوناً، وهو الذي قيل إنه الدجال ثم أسلم فهو تابعي له رؤية)

After embracing Islam he seems to have been rightfully guided.
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

Ijtaba

Re: Ibn Sayyed: Dajjal or Companion?
« Reply #14 on: August 21, 2017, 11:31:57 AM »
If you're asking whether he's a Sahabi or not, he seems to be a Tabi`ee:

الذهبي في كتابه (تجريد أسماء الصحابة) فقال: (عبد الله بن صياد أورده ابن شاهين، وقال: هو ابن صائد كان أبوه يهوديا فولد عبد الله أعور مختوناً، وهو الذي قيل إنه الدجال ثم أسلم فهو تابعي له رؤية)

After embracing Islam he seems to have been rightfully guided.

Thank you Hani for answering my question.

 

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