Just quick comments since you never wrote anything useful.
We can play the rijal and manuscript game all you like
Rijal is not a game, the fact that you said this shows your low-class level, your bias and your extremism.
Then like a twelve year old kid you copy and paste some list from a website thinking that it would impress us?
وى أحمد عن أبي البختري عن علي عليه السّلام قال: «بعثني رسول الله صلّى الله عليه وآله وسلّم إلى اليمن وأنا حديث السن قال: قلت: تبعثني إلى قوم يكون بينهم أحداث ولا علم لي بالقضاء قال: انّ الله سيهدي لسانك ويثبت قلبك، قال: فما شككت في قضاء بين اثنين بعد»(1).
وروى الحاكم باسناده عن أنس بن مالك: «ان النبي صلّى الله عليه وآله وسلّم قال لعلي: أنت تبين لأمتي ما اختلفوا فيه بعدي»(2).
وروى الشبلنجي عن ابن مسعود، قال: «أفرض أهل المدينة وأقضاها علي»(3).
.
.
.
You quote a cocktail of narrations as if we think that `Ali is a bad judge or sumthing, SubhanAllah what a grasshopper. Heck half of this list is the exact same report being repeated.
You tried to attack the hadith from umar by saying that "he could of meant it only when abu bakr was dead" using ad hoc argument with no proof whatsoever that abu bakr was a better judge than Ali.
Already addressed this, He doesn't need to be a better judge, he can be a less better judge and still get it right.
This hadith says that Allah guides the tongue of Ali when it comes to judgement, this is actually stronger than the hadith we've been trying to argue over.....
Also already addressed, he gave him more confidence to make his judgement since he was too scared due to his inexperience. Doesn't mean all his judgments will be right.
Man you repeat yourself a lot.
And Lastly, Imam Ali [as] himself says in authentic narrations in your books that he there would not be anything in the book of Allah that he did not know the minute details of.
We believe `Ali was from the most knowledgeable men, and maybe even the most knowledgeable man in his own reign. Doesn't mean that others didn't know anything or weren't close or near to his level if not better in certain sciences. Ibn Mas`oud died before `Ali and it has been authentically reported from him that he said that nobody alive knew more about Allah's book than himself.
This is coming from a person who thinks Allah has fingers, two right hands, two legs, eyes,a shin,comes and goes, laughs, descends like an elevator (Ibn taymiyya would demonstrate this with his break dancing on the pulpit).
I don't believe any of this which makes you a sinful liar. The Prophet (saw) said: The Muslim does not lie.
Ibn Taymiyyah says that Zayd ibn thaabit was never known for inheritance laws. 
This is why he rejected the hadith I gave you, just for that reason....
Maybe he was maybe he wasn't, we can't be sure after 1,400 years. The narration you keep quoting says so though.
it doesn't matter what additional details your hadith says, again, you can give me a hadith where umar makes shaytan run away, or uthman making the angels blush, it doesn't matter to me. What matters to me is that the statement "Ali is the best judge", is established.
It's not established.
1- The case is simple, prophets don't inherit, this is a single piece of information its either true or not.
2- Ali is the best judge.
3- Ali persisted on his rejection even until umar's time.
1- There's two opinions: A- All prophets do not offer inheritance. B- Only our prophet did not wish to offer it. Either way doesn't work for you.
2- Doesn't matter.
3- I say he didn't persist and he was only asking for guardianship of the seven gardens. Nor did he return the land to Fatimah's children.
Are you kidding me, do you even know what you're talking about?
this is fadak.
The only land that was given as Fay from banu nadheer is Fadak.
I ain't kidding. Fadak, Sulalim, al-Wateeh and the areas between them are from the lands of Khaybar some of which were taken by force and others in peace.
As for what `Ali and al-`Abbas asked for, it was the seven gardens which were surrounded by walls and located in and around Madinah, they are: al-Dallal, Barqah, al-A`waf, al-Safiyah, al-Maythib, Husna and Mashrabat Umm Ibrahim. They are the Sawafi of banu al-Nadeer and some of them belonged to Mukhayreeq. Banu al-Nadeer were kicked out of Madinah after their treachery and their gardens remained and they made a deal to carry as much as they could from their possessions.
Also look at the hadith..
Sahih Muslim Book 019, Number 4349
I know this Hadith and based on my reading this is what `Ali and al-`Abbas were asking for:
WHAT WERE AL-`ABBAS AND `ALI ASKING `UMAR FOR?
`Ali and al-`Abbas, when they came to `Umar, they were not asking for Fadak or Khaybar, they just asked for control of the Sadaqat of Madinah from the property of banu al-Nadeer(Jews) and Mukhayreeq as they believed they were at least entitled to do so.
We read in the books of Sunan:
عَلِيًّا، وَالْعَبَّاسَ رضي الله عنهما يختصمان فيما أفاء الله على رَسُولِ اللَّهِ مِنْ أَمْوَالِ بَنِي النَّضِير
[`Ali and al-`Abbas both disputed over what Allah has given as Fay’ to his messenger from the property of banu al-Nadeer.]
هُمَا يَخْتَصِمَانِ فِي الصَّوَافِي الَّتِي أَفَاءَ اللَّهُ عَلَى رَسُولِهِ مِنْ أَمْوَالِ بَنِي النَّضِير
[And they were disputing regarding the pure possessions that Allah granted as Fay’ to his messenger (saw) from bani al-Nadeer.]
Two years into his Khilafah, `Umar ibn al-Khattab out of good will towards them entrusted the Sadaqat of Madinah to both men since they were the heads of Ahlul-Bayt, he never gave it to them as inheritance, but just appointed them over it to care for it and benefit from it and to distribute its produce as the Prophet (saw) and Abu Bakr did before.
`Ali asked for his wife’s part and al-`Abbas asked for his nephew’s part, so `Umar reminded them of the Prophet’s (saw) Hadith, then said what we read in al-Bukhari:
قُلْتُ: إِنْ شِئْتُمَا دَفَعْتُهُ إِلَيْكُمَا عَلَى أَنَّ عَلَيْكُمَا عَهْدَ اللَّهِ وَمِيثَاقَهُ، لَتَعْمَلَانِ فِيهِ بِمَا عَمِلَ فِيهِ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ وَأَبُو بَكْرٍ وَمَا عَمِلْتُ فِيهِ مُنْذُ وَلِيتُ وَإِلَّا فَلَا تُكَلِّمَانِي، فَقُلْتُمَا ادْفَعْهُ إِلَيْنَا بِذَلِكَ، فَدَفَعْتُهُ إِلَيْكُمَا
[If you two wish, I hand it to you but you give me an oath by Allah to use it as the messenger of Allah (saw) and Abu Bakr used it and like I used it since I was given authority, otherwise never mention it to me ever again. Then you both said: “We accept, give it to us.” And I did.]
Al-`Abbas and `Ali later had a fight over how the money the land produces is divided, it appears as if al-`Abbas was angry at `Ali so much that he called him names, `Abbas might have thought `Ali took more than his need or that he used the money without consulting him, so they both went to `Umar asking him to divide it between them or to rule for one of them against the other.
We read what al-Daraqutni reported from Imam Isma`eel al-Qadi al-Maliki (199-282AH) in Tuhfat-ul-Ahwadhi Sharh-ul-Jami`:
لم يكن في الميراث إنما تنازعا في ولاية الصدقة وفي صرفها كيف تصرف
[Their dispute was not regarding inheritance, they only fought about controlling the Sadaqah and how it should be divided and spent.]
`Umar refused to give any other judgment and told them to return it if they’re unable to manage it.
He also said:
فَإِنْ عَجَزْتُمَا عَنْهُ فَادْفَعَا إِلَيَّ فَأَنَا أَكْفِيكُمَاهُ
[If you are unable to run this land, then return it to me and I shall save you the effort.]
It was later written that `Uthman ibn `Affan during his Khilafah convinced al-`Abbas to hand the entire land to `Ali and it remained with his children for many years.
In another narration from Musnad Ahmad, it says that ibn `Abbas convinced his father during the Khilafah of `Uthman to allow `Ali to control it on his own:
فلما استخلف عثمان اختصما إليه، فسكت عثمان ونكس رأسه. قال ابن عباس: فخشيت أن يأخذه أبي، فضربت بيدي بين كتفي العباس، فقلت: يا أبت أقسمت عليك إلا سلّمته
[When `Uthman received Khilafah, they both came and disputed in front of him and asked him to settle the matter, but he remained silent and lowered his head. Ibn `Abbas said: So I feared that he would take it (meaning the land) back from them, so I patted my hand on al-`Abbas’ chest and said: “O father, by Allah just hand it to him (meaning to `Ali).”]
As for the Fay’ of the lands of Khaybar including Fadak, `Umar held on to them and kept them well managed and properly taken care of as the Prophet (saw) used them for the urgent needs of the nation.
The Arabic is more clear
وَيَطْلُبُ هَذَا مِيرَاثَ امْرَأَتِهِ مِنْ أَبِيهَا
Umar : " And he is requesting his wife's inheritance from her father".
قَالَ أَبُو بَكْرٍ : أَنَا وَلِيُّ رَسُولِ اللَّهِ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ ، فَجِئْتُمَا تَطْلُبُ مِيرَاثَكَ مِنَ ابْنِ أَخِيكَ وَيَطْلُبُ هَذَا مِيرَاثَ امْرَأَتِهِ مِنْ أَبِيهَا ، فَقَالَ أَبُو بَكْرٍ : قَالَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ : مَا نُورَثُ مَا تَرَكْنَاهُ صَدَقَةٌ
This is referring to when they went to Abu Bakr, this is actual evidence that it wasn't a "gift" for if it were then `Umar would have instead said: "And you both went to Abu Bakr asking for your property" Instead he said: "Asking him for the inheritance of your nephew and you asking for the inheritance of your wife etc..."
Then after Abu Bakr's death, `Ali and `Abbas came to `Umar and they were united at that time and had no conflicts:
فَوَلِيتُهَا ثُمَّ جِئْتَنِي أَنْتَ وَهَذَا وَأَنْتُمَا جَمِيعٌ وَأَمْرُكُمَا وَاحِدٌ ، فَقُلْتُمَا : ادْفَعْهَا إِلَيْنَا ، فَقُلْتُ : إِنْ شِئْتُمْ دَفَعْتُهَا إِلَيْكُمَا ، عَلَى أَنَّ عَلَيْكُمَا عَهْدَ اللَّهِ
[So I took charge of it and then you both came to me united and told me: "Hand it to us." I said: "If you wish I will hand it to you..."]
Our interpretation is that they were asking to be placed in charge of those Amwal and felt that they had more right to be in charge due to their closeness, but not for inheritance. `Ali and `Abbas did receive it based on that and they both clearly confirmed the Hadith narrated by Abu Bakr in public and never objected at all.
Later `Ali and al-`Abbas had a fight over the land and returned to `Umar. The two weren't in agreement and asked `Umar to split it into two parts, `Ali felt he was entitled to a part due to his wife and `Abbas due to his closeness. `Umar felt like the two went overboard and that they were acting as if the land belonged to them, so he reminded them again of that narration and told them "Either you both manage it as previously agreed upon or I shall take it back" Meaning they didn't own it, nor was this a splitting of inheritance because there were other heirs who were also entitled for it.
142 Replies
50043 Views
December 28, 2014, 10:51:40 PM
