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Sunni Shia Discussion Forum => Sahabah-AhlulBayt => Topic started by: Optimus Prime on March 17, 2015, 02:14:54 PM

Title: Qualities of Uthman (RA)
Post by: Optimus Prime on March 17, 2015, 02:14:54 PM
Asalamualaikum to all my Sunni bredrins!  8)

Brothers, help me list qualities of Uthman (RA) for user Ameen who was being inquisitive yesterday by asking me exactly what they were.

Title: Re: Qualities of Uthman (RA)
Post by: Furkan on March 17, 2015, 02:20:17 PM
He was very...

-Shy
-Generous
-God fearing

He could save his own live by ...

-Giving the order to kill the rebels , but he didn't because he cared for Muslim blood.


And he married 2 daughters of rasullulah (saw) ...

-since he was worthy enough for it


Title: Re: Qualities of Uthman (RA)
Post by: sameer on March 17, 2015, 03:11:46 PM
read the first paragraph which is enough for a sensible rafidha to understand the qualities of Hazrat Usman RA
http://www.al-islam.org/nahjul-balagha-part-1-sermons/sermon-164-people-are-behind-me%E2%80%A6
Title: Re: Qualities of Uthman (RA)
Post by: Optimus Prime on March 17, 2015, 05:21:03 PM
Not to mention the Prophet (SAW) guranteed him Jannah many times, but one of the signifcant moments is when he offered 300 camels to the Prophet (SAW) before the battle of Tabuk.
Title: Re: Qualities of Uthman (RA)
Post by: Optimus Prime on March 17, 2015, 05:23:59 PM
Prophet (SAW) said :"Every prophet has a companion in paradise. My companion there is Uthman (RA)".

Source: Ibid
Title: Re: Qualities of Uthman (RA)
Post by: Ameen on March 17, 2015, 10:23:27 PM
Prophet (SAW) said :"Every prophet has a companion in paradise. My companion there is Uthman (RA)".

Source: Ibid

Ok, so the chain of narrations leading to this hadith will automatically be authentic and reliable or would you still need to examine this???

Secondly would this and also marrying two daughters of the Prophet (pbuh) make Usman (ra) superior than the Shaikhain???

Well it should, shouldn't it??? As you calim that Ali knew Usman was superior than him then, the Shaikhain must have also k own that Usman was superior than them???

 
Title: Re: Qualities of Uthman (RA)
Post by: Furkan on March 18, 2015, 12:25:29 AM
Ameen, I admit, this post of yours is way better than your previous 100 posts, though one "?" after each sentence will suffice.

Quote
Ok, so the chain of narrations leading to this hadith will automatically be authentic and reliable or would you still need to examine this???

Good geustion.

Quote
Secondly would this and also marrying two daughters of the Prophet (pbuh) make Usman (ra) superior than the Shaikhain???

They married their own daughters to rasululah (saw). The shaykhain are unbeatable btw.

Quote
Well it should, shouldn't it??? As you calim that Ali knew Usman was superior than him then, the Shaikhain must have also k own that Usman was superior than them???

See previous 2 comments of mine.
Title: Re: Qualities of Uthman (RA)
Post by: Optimus Prime on March 18, 2015, 01:22:48 AM
Prophet (SAW) said :"Every prophet has a companion in paradise. My companion there is Uthman (RA)".

Source: Ibid

Ok, so the chain of narrations leading to this hadith will automatically be authentic and reliable or would you still need to examine this???

Secondly would this and also marrying two daughters of the Prophet (pbuh) make Usman (ra) superior than the Shaikhain???

Well it should, shouldn't it??? As you calim that Ali knew Usman was superior than him then, the Shaikhain must have also k own that Usman was superior than them???

 


Hadith scholars have confirmed it's authenticity. Look it up yourself. :)

Ali (RA) knew Uthman (RA) was number 3 as he admitted or confessed this to one of his own sons who asked him the question. So, hah!

As brother Furkan said the two Shaikhain's are unsurpassable.

This thread is about the qualities of Uthman (RA) since you were wanting to know.

There are heaps. So, what are your thoughts on this great man?
Title: Re: Qualities of Uthman (RA)
Post by: Hadrami on March 18, 2015, 01:58:17 AM
Guys, its ameen here, forget about hadith.

Khamenei jails, executes & house arrest his rivals (shia & sunni) while Uthman RA would rather arrest himself in his house than hurt even the rebels.

Khamenei supports regime in Syria to kill, torture & bomb thousands of their people, Uthman RA??? How many of his own people let alone other did he kill? Which dictator did he support? etc

Everyone can see how evil this rafidi is for even questioning uthman RA character when all hes been doing in this forum are defending the vile khamenei & iran.
Title: Re: Qualities of Uthman (RA)
Post by: Furkan on March 18, 2015, 02:04:08 AM
On the authority of Muhammad ibn Abdur Rahman who said:

“A man in Kufa used to spread a rumour that Uthman ibn Affan (RA) was a Jew.

So Imam Abu Hanifa (rh) approached him and said: ‘I come to you with a proposal’.

 The man said: ‘ what is the proposal concerning?’

Abu Hanifa said: ‘I come to ask for your daughter's hand in marriage for a man who is noble, wealthy and a hafiz of the Holy Qur'an, he's devoted in worship. He spends the night praying and cries a lot from the fear of Allah.’

The man said: ‘you have said enough to convince me he's a suitable person to marry my daughter, O Abu Hanifa.’

Imam Abu Hanifa then said to the man: ‘Except that this suitor has a certain characteristic.’

The man said: ‘and what is that?’

Abu Hanifa said: ‘This man is a Jew.’

The Shia said: ‘SubhanAllah!

Do you order me to give away my daughter in marriage to a Jew O Abu Hanifa?!’

The imam said to the Shia: ‘Do you agree to marry her to the Jew?’

The Shia said: ‘No!’

Abu Hanifa said: ‘But you are spreading the news that the Holy Prophet (SAW) married two of his daughters to a Jew.’

The Shia said: ‘I seek Allah's forgiveness! I turn to Allah with repentance as of now.’”

[Related by al-Khateeb al-Baghdadi (d. 463 H) in 'Tarikh Baghdad', (Vol. 15, pg. 498-499)]

(The dutch translation I have read didn't say "shia" but "man", can someone check this on the picture I have included here.)[ You are not allowed to view attachments ]
Title: Re: Qualities of Uthman (RA)
Post by: Hadrami on March 18, 2015, 02:28:49 AM
it only says man from kufa, but maybe at the time it most likely meant to be what we know as shia?
Title: Re: Qualities of Uthman (RA)
Post by: Hani on March 18, 2015, 03:47:56 AM
A man in Kufah insulting `Uthman (ra) = 100% Shia.
Title: Re: Qualities of Uthman (RA)
Post by: Furkan on March 18, 2015, 03:52:54 AM
what kind of shia is the question?  ----> Ignore this irrelevant question, since imam ali's topics always get off topic :p
Title: Re: Qualities of Uthman (RA)
Post by: Optimus Prime on March 18, 2015, 03:59:14 AM
Let's stick to the topic, kindly.
Title: Re: Qualities of Uthman (RA)
Post by: Ameen on March 19, 2015, 07:55:19 PM
Ameen, I admit, this post of yours is way better than your previous 100 posts, though one "?" after each sentence will suffice.

Quote
Ok, so the chain of narrations leading to this hadith will automatically be authentic and reliable or would you still need to examine this???

Good geustion.

Quote
Secondly would this and also marrying two daughters of the Prophet (pbuh) make Usman (ra) superior than the Shaikhain???

They married their own daughters to rasululah (saw). The shaykhain are unbeatable btw.

Quote
Well it should, shouldn't it??? As you calim that Ali knew Usman was superior than him then, the Shaikhain must have also k own that Usman was superior than them???

See previous 2 comments of mine.

The Shaikhain are unbeatable??? Ok, how??? Because they married their daughters to the Prophet (pbuh)??? How does that make you unbeatable??? You put forward a reason that Usman is superior than Ali, why?, because he married two of the Prophet's (pbuh) daughters.

Now this should also mean that Usman is superior than the Shaikhain. But in fact he (Usman) along with Ali both should be superior than the Shaikhain because they both had the privilege, but no. Here we see double standards kicking in. Wow!

Either having the privilege of being married to the Prophet's (pbuh) daughter/s is not a question of superiority or the Shaikhain have just gone down. So what are we suppose to believe in??? Which way are you going to go???

Ali knew that Usman was number 3??? Excuse me??? Usman should be number one due to this privilege and that should make Ali number two??? LOL! You don't think when you come out with things, do you??? Think before you speak. Or at least stick to and stand by what you say.
Title: Re: Qualities of Uthman (RA)
Post by: Optimus Prime on March 19, 2015, 10:01:41 PM
Ameen, I admit, this post of yours is way better than your previous 100 posts, though one "?" after each sentence will suffice.

Quote
Ok, so the chain of narrations leading to this hadith will automatically be authentic and reliable or would you still need to examine this???

Good geustion.

Quote
Secondly would this and also marrying two daughters of the Prophet (pbuh) make Usman (ra) superior than the Shaikhain???

They married their own daughters to rasululah (saw). The shaykhain are unbeatable btw.

Quote
Well it should, shouldn't it??? As you calim that Ali knew Usman was superior than him then, the Shaikhain must have also k own that Usman was superior than them???

See previous 2 comments of mine.

The Shaikhain are unbeatable??? Ok, how??? Because they married their daughters to the Prophet (pbuh)??? How does that make you unbeatable??? You put forward a reason that Usman is superior than Ali, why?, because he married two of the Prophet's (pbuh) daughters.

Now this should also mean that Usman is superior than the Shaikhain. But in fact he (Usman) along with Ali both should be superior than the Shaikhain because they both had the privilege, but no. Here we see double standards kicking in. Wow!

Either having the privilege of being married to the Prophet's (pbuh) daughter/s is not a question of superiority or the Shaikhain have just gone down. So what are we suppose to believe in??? Which way are you going to go???

Ali knew that Usman was number 3??? Excuse me??? Usman should be number one due to this privilege and that should make Ali number two??? LOL! You don't think when you come out with things, do you??? Think before you speak. Or at least stick to and stand by what you say.

Bechara'.

Let me break it down for you.

Abu Bakr (RA) and Umar (RA) are numero-uno because of a wide range/list of reasons. The mere fact that the Prophet (SAW) accepted and willed to marry their daughters is equally a very big honour of epic proportions to the Prophet (SAW) marrying his daughters to Uthman (RA) and Ali (RA). We didn't say just because Uthman (RA) married two of his daughters that it makes him higher in status than his predeccors, but just confirms his exalted status in Islam which, is what this thread is about - geddit?

Zainab (RA), the eldest daughter was the FIRST to be married, and that too to someone who was a Kafir for much of the time since the inception of Islam, namely Abu al-Aas ibn al-Rabee (RA). Even when he embraced Islam none of us said nor are there any narrations to let alone imply he surpassed any Muhajir or Ansar let alone the Khulafah Rashidun.

I hope it's clear now Mr. Ameen.
Title: Re: Qualities of Uthman (RA)
Post by: Ameen on March 20, 2015, 01:30:35 AM
Ameen, I admit, this post of yours is way better than your previous 100 posts, though one "?" after each sentence will suffice.

Quote
Ok, so the chain of narrations leading to this hadith will automatically be authentic and reliable or would you still need to examine this???

Good geustion.

Quote
Secondly would this and also marrying two daughters of the Prophet (pbuh) make Usman (ra) superior than the Shaikhain???

They married their own daughters to rasululah (saw). The shaykhain are unbeatable btw.

Quote
Well it should, shouldn't it??? As you calim that Ali knew Usman was superior than him then, the Shaikhain must have also k own that Usman was superior than them???

See previous 2 comments of mine.

The Shaikhain are unbeatable??? Ok, how??? Because they married their daughters to the Prophet (pbuh)??? How does that make you unbeatable??? You put forward a reason that Usman is superior than Ali, why?, because he married two of the Prophet's (pbuh) daughters.

Now this should also mean that Usman is superior than the Shaikhain. But in fact he (Usman) along with Ali both should be superior than the Shaikhain because they both had the privilege, but no. Here we see double standards kicking in. Wow!

Either having the privilege of being married to the Prophet's (pbuh) daughter/s is not a question of superiority or the Shaikhain have just gone down. So what are we suppose to believe in??? Which way are you going to go???

Ali knew that Usman was number 3??? Excuse me??? Usman should be number one due to this privilege and that should make Ali number two??? LOL! You don't think when you come out with things, do you??? Think before you speak. Or at least stick to and stand by what you say.

Bechara'.

Let me break it down for you.

Abu Bakr (RA) and Umar (RA) are numero-uno because of a wide range/list of reasons. The mere fact that the Prophet (SAW) accepted and willed to marry their daughters is equally a very big honour of epic proportions to the Prophet (SAW) marrying his daughters to Uthman (RA) and Ali (RA). We didn't say just because Uthman (RA) married two of his daughters that it makes him higher in status than his predeccors, but just confirms his exalted status in Islam which, is what this thread is about - geddit?

Zainab (RA), the eldest daughter was the FIRST to be married, and that too to someone who was a Kafir for much of the time since the inception of Islam, namely Abu al-Aas ibn al-Rabee (RA). Even when he embraced Islam none of us said nor are there any narrations to let alone imply he surpassed any Muhajir or Ansar let alone the Khulafah Rashidun.

I hope it's clear now Mr. Ameen.

All you are doing is giving me words based on your opinion and absolutely nothing to back them up what so ever. Those women that the Prophet (pbuh) married it is an honour for them and their families but that doesn't raise their status, neither does it put them above anyone else or gives them more authority over anything.

The point is that Ali knew Usman was superior to him. Why??? Because Usman married two of the Prophet's (pbuh) daughters. Full stop! Now either admit that this statement is wrong and false or stand by it and stop twisting and turning things around.

The Prophet's (pbuh) elder daughter was married to a Kafir??? Is that so??? Was he not a Messenger when he married of his daughter??? And why to a Kafir??? We're there no believers around at the time that he had to rely upon Kafirs???

Anyone can become a Khalifa and get authority and power. That is all. You get authority and power and you are above the rest due to this authority and power. It has got nothing to do with Fazeelath. When you become Khalifa you are not above others because of Fazeelath.

Yazeed also became Khalifa and was above others due to this authority and power. So there you have it. All you are trying to do is use Khilafath and the sequence of how certain people became Khalifa to somehow prove they were above others due to Fazeelath.

These are reality and facts. If Khilafath is Fazeelath then you have Yazeed who was accepted and supported by a vast majority. In history books he is listed and considered as the sixth Khalif by Ahle Sunnah scholars. Like it or not. You can't pick and choose. Either accept Khilafath and accept and praise everyone regardless or take in and digest that Khilafath is just authority and power and nothing more.
Title: Re: Qualities of Uthman (RA)
Post by: Optimus Prime on March 20, 2015, 01:44:04 AM
Ameen, I admit, this post of yours is way better than your previous 100 posts, though one "?" after each sentence will suffice.

Quote
Ok, so the chain of narrations leading to this hadith will automatically be authentic and reliable or would you still need to examine this???

Good geustion.

Quote
Secondly would this and also marrying two daughters of the Prophet (pbuh) make Usman (ra) superior than the Shaikhain???

They married their own daughters to rasululah (saw). The shaykhain are unbeatable btw.

Quote
Well it should, shouldn't it??? As you calim that Ali knew Usman was superior than him then, the Shaikhain must have also k own that Usman was superior than them???

See previous 2 comments of mine.

The Shaikhain are unbeatable??? Ok, how??? Because they married their daughters to the Prophet (pbuh)??? How does that make you unbeatable??? You put forward a reason that Usman is superior than Ali, why?, because he married two of the Prophet's (pbuh) daughters.

Now this should also mean that Usman is superior than the Shaikhain. But in fact he (Usman) along with Ali both should be superior than the Shaikhain because they both had the privilege, but no. Here we see double standards kicking in. Wow!

Either having the privilege of being married to the Prophet's (pbuh) daughter/s is not a question of superiority or the Shaikhain have just gone down. So what are we suppose to believe in??? Which way are you going to go???

Ali knew that Usman was number 3??? Excuse me??? Usman should be number one due to this privilege and that should make Ali number two??? LOL! You don't think when you come out with things, do you??? Think before you speak. Or at least stick to and stand by what you say.

Bechara'.

Let me break it down for you.

Abu Bakr (RA) and Umar (RA) are numero-uno because of a wide range/list of reasons. The mere fact that the Prophet (SAW) accepted and willed to marry their daughters is equally a very big honour of epic proportions to the Prophet (SAW) marrying his daughters to Uthman (RA) and Ali (RA). We didn't say just because Uthman (RA) married two of his daughters that it makes him higher in status than his predeccors, but just confirms his exalted status in Islam which, is what this thread is about - geddit?

Zainab (RA), the eldest daughter was the FIRST to be married, and that too to someone who was a Kafir for much of the time since the inception of Islam, namely Abu al-Aas ibn al-Rabee (RA). Even when he embraced Islam none of us said nor are there any narrations to let alone imply he surpassed any Muhajir or Ansar let alone the Khulafah Rashidun.

I hope it's clear now Mr. Ameen.

All you are doing is giving me words based on your opinion and absolutely nothing to back them up what so ever. Those women that the Prophet (pbuh) married it is an honour for them and their families but that doesn't raise their status, neither does it put them above anyone else or gives them more authority over anything.

The point is that Ali knew Usman was superior to him. Why??? Because Usman married two of the Prophet's (pbuh) daughters. Full stop! Now either admit that this statement is wrong and false or stand by it and stop twisting and turning things around.

The Prophet's (pbuh) elder daughter was married to a Kafir??? Is that so??? Was he not a Messenger when he married of his daughter??? And why to a Kafir??? We're there no believers around at the time that he had to rely upon Kafirs???

Anyone can become a Khalifa and get authority and power. That is all. You get authority and power and you are above the rest due to this authority and power. It has got nothing to do with Fazeelath. When you become Khalifa you are not above others because of Fazeelath.

Yazeed also became Khalifa and was above others due to this authority and power. So there you have it. All you are trying to do is use Khilafath and the sequence of how certain people became Khalifa to somehow prove they were above others due to Fazeelath.

These are reality and facts. If Khilafath is Fazeelath then you have Yazeed who was accepted and supported by a vast majority. In history books he is listed and considered as the sixth Khalif by Ahle Sunnah scholars. Like it or not. You can't pick and choose. Either accept Khilafath and accept and praise everyone regardless or take in and digest that Khilafath is just authority and power and nothing more.

I'm going to enjoy dismantling your posts.

The above is based on authentic narrations from Bukhari and Muslim. Want me to pull them up?

Again, no one said just because he married two daughters of ther Prophet (SAW) that it means he is the main sheriff - stick that in your brain otherwise, I'll spam you a PM repeating the same fact until it sinks in. The fact he did is a list of many of his virtues which, places him up the ladder as one of the most astute companions. The only reason why you're sticking to this point because you can't use it or compare it with the status of Abu Bakr (RA) and Umar (RA).  ;) I know how you roll.

Haha, the Prophet (SAW) would ever only marry righteous and virteous women. How can you say NOT marrying them is a reflection of their status. Seriously, what did you have for breakfast? It does raise their status, but you'll never admit this as it's apart of your corrupt religion to perceive most of them as evil women. By Rafidhi definition then I guess Khadija (RA) was a nobody?

Yes, she was married to a Kafir. The verse about only marrying Muslims was not revealed. Again a knowledge gap on your part. Hardly surprising.

No one mentioned anything about the Khalifat. Again, you're just clutching at straws to derail this discussion from it's original topic. Having said that the fact Uthman (RA) is apart of Khulafah Rashidun does place him in an elite 4. See, again you just shot yourself in the foot by inadvertently pointing out another reason why Uthman (RA) is number 3. :D
Title: Re: Qualities of Uthman (RA)
Post by: Ameen on March 20, 2015, 03:55:36 AM
Main Sheriff?? Well why not??? Why the double standards??? You put him above Ali and the reason you give is clear and there for everyone to see but that doesn't make him the main sheriff. Well how does it put him superior than Ali for the reason you've given??? Try explaining it rather than twisting and turning it then running away from it.

No one is talking about the virtues of Usman but the question is that it puts him above and makes him superior than Ali for the reason you've given but throws him off course regarding the Shaikhain. Well how many daughters of the Prophet (pbuh) did the Shaikhain marry???

Well according to your theory it must have been at least three if not more to put the Shaikhain above and superior to Usman. Just admit that your statement is ridiculous and save yourself from future embarrassment, rather than twisting and turning yourself.

We're there no believers for available for Zainab to marry that she had to be given up to Kuffar??? It was the wive's relations that I was talking about, the Prophet (pbuh) marrying the daughters doesn't put their parents and relations on to a higher status.

You mentioned the Shaikhain marrying their daughters to the messenger (pbuh) and this gives the Shaikhain some privilege and status. My friend the Prophet (pbuh) also married Abu Sufyan's daughter (Muavia's sister) and correct me if I am wrong then, this should put all the wives fathers right up and along with the Shaikhain for the reason you have given.

It's time to wake up.
Title: Re: Qualities of Uthman (RA)
Post by: Optimus Prime on March 20, 2015, 04:44:14 AM
Main Sheriff?? Well why not??? Why the double standards??? You put him above Ali and the reason you give is clear and there for everyone to see but that doesn't make him the main sheriff. Well how does it put him superior than Ali for the reason you've given??? Try explaining it rather than twisting and turning it then running away from it.

No one is talking about the virtues of Usman but the question is that it puts him above and makes him superior than Ali for the reason you've given but throws him off course regarding the Shaikhain. Well how many daughters of the Prophet (pbuh) did the Shaikhain marry???

Well according to your theory it must have been at least three if not more to put the Shaikhain above and superior to Usman. Just admit that your statement is ridiculous and save yourself from future embarrassment, rather than twisting and turning yourself.

We're there no believers for available for Zainab to marry that she had to be given up to Kuffar??? It was the wive's relations that I was talking about, the Prophet (pbuh) marrying the daughters doesn't put their parents and relations on to a higher status.

You mentioned the Shaikhain marrying their daughters to the messenger (pbuh) and this gives the Shaikhain some privilege and status. My friend the Prophet (pbuh) also married Abu Sufyan's daughter (Muavia's sister) and correct me if I am wrong then, this should put all the wives fathers right up and along with the Shaikhain for the reason you have given.

It's time to wake up.

I think it's high-time you went to bed. You've clearly lost the plot and not for the first time either.

Why? Simple, because marrying the daughter of a Prophet (SAW) does not propel you above others for the umpteen time. Abu Bakr (RA) and Umar (RA) are in a league of their own because of their vast qualities, accomplishment and virtures which, are equalled by none. How difficult is this to swallow?

You're rigidly sticking to this belief that marrying a daughter of a Prophet (SAW) makes you G. Show me where and annotate my text where I said such a thing? You're mischievously playing devil advocates here or it's way past your bedtime and can't think straight. I think you're playing games, but I ain't gonna' take the baint, but throw it back in your face.

Catch this:

You mentioned the Shaikhain marrying their daughters to the messenger (pbuh) and this gives the Shaikhain some privilege and status.

Indeed, but, where did I say it by defaults ranks you higher than Abu Bakr (RA) and Umar (RA)?

You then said:

My friend the Prophet (pbuh) also married Abu Sufyan's daughter (Muavia's sister) and correct me if I am wrong then, this should put all the wives fathers right up and along with the Shaikhain for the reason you have given.

lol, you just made yourself look like a plumb. You've reinforced the very point, I was trying to make. Duh, it does NOT put you higher than them, but it reflects good on that person from whom the proposal is being made. This is what I was getting at about Uthman (RA). The fact the Prophet (SAW) married Raqqiyah (RA) and Umm Khulthum (RA) suggests he was a made of real awesome-fibre because no doubt the Prophet (SAW) only wanted one of the BEST for his daughters as was the case with Ali (RA). The uniqueness about Uthman (RA) is he was given the privilege of marrying not one, but two. It only takes someone with functional brain cells to come to terms that Uthman (RA) was a pious man and of great integrity.  ::) Umm Habiba (RA) was not proposed to the Prophet (SAW) by Abu Sufyan (RA), but hopefully now your mind can understand what's being mentioned here?

The fact that Abu Bakr (RA) and Umar (RA) proposal were accepted by the Prophet (SAW) fuses well with the compliments the Prophet (SAW) threw at them and about them. So, effectively it does raise their status in all angles - in society and spiritually.

Another knowledge gap. Marrying Kuffar was allowed at the time and Zainab (RA) was a sound man as the Prophet (SAW) stated in authentic narrations. Whether you accept our vision of history is your personal choice, but this was the situation with Zainab (RA). Her story is pretty interesting and warm. Go, research it and you'll find out, but I'm sure you'll find something to nit-pick and question.  :o
Title: Re: Qualities of Uthman (RA)
Post by: Hadrami on March 20, 2015, 06:54:57 AM
hey ameen, I will marry off my daughter once to a guy and then again to the same guy only if I really really trust & like the guy's character. I won't just marry them off to anyone, they're my own flesh & blood, not rag dolls. I want them to have husband with good character. Dont you want to have the same for your daughter?

Speaking from shia's view of history, why do you think Rasulullah shallallahu alaihi wasallam did that? Is that the reason why Ali also let Umar RA married his daughter?
Title: Re: Qualities of Uthman (RA)
Post by: Optimus Prime on March 20, 2015, 07:11:24 AM
hey ameen, I will marry off my daughter once to a guy and then again to the same guy only if I really really trust & like the guy's character. I won't just marry them off to anyone, they're my own flesh & blood, not rag dolls. I want them to have husband with good character. Dont you want to have the same for your daughter?

Speaking from shia's view of history, why do you think Rasulullah shallallahu alaihi wasallam did that? Is that the reason why Ali also let Umar RA married his daughter?

Give him a few days to formulate his response. :P
Title: Re: Qualities of Uthman (RA)
Post by: Furkan on March 20, 2015, 09:10:35 PM
If i'm not wrong, there was a hadith telliing us that rasululah (saw) would even give a third daughter if possible.
Title: Re: Qualities of Uthman (RA)
Post by: Hadrami on March 20, 2015, 10:51:45 PM
hey ameen, I will marry off my daughter once to a guy and then again to the same guy only if I really really trust & like the guy's character. I won't just marry them off to anyone, they're my own flesh & blood, not rag dolls. I want them to have husband with good character. Dont you want to have the same for your daughter?

Speaking from shia's view of history, why do you think Rasulullah shallallahu alaihi wasallam did that? Is that the reason why Ali also let Umar RA married his daughter?

Ameen, can you tell me why?
Title: Re: Qualities of Uthman (RA)
Post by: Optimus Prime on March 20, 2015, 10:53:34 PM
If i'm not wrong, there was a hadith telliing us that rasululah (saw) would even give a third daughter if possible.

You're right.

I'll try it and find it.
Title: Re: Qualities of Uthman (RA)
Post by: Optimus Prime on March 20, 2015, 10:54:12 PM
hey ameen, I will marry off my daughter once to a guy and then again to the same guy only if I really really trust & like the guy's character. I won't just marry them off to anyone, they're my own flesh & blood, not rag dolls. I want them to have husband with good character. Dont you want to have the same for your daughter?

Speaking from shia's view of history, why do you think Rasulullah shallallahu alaihi wasallam did that? Is that the reason why Ali also let Umar RA married his daughter?

Ameen, can you tell me why?

Watch, his response will be indirectly skewed.
Title: Re: Qualities of Uthman (RA)
Post by: Furkan on March 20, 2015, 11:52:50 PM
Ameen will just start asking questions.
Title: Re: Qualities of Uthman (RA)
Post by: Hadrami on March 21, 2015, 12:27:19 AM
i know he has read my question, but intentionally ignore it. Deep down, there is some goodness in everyone's heart. I know he can't deny that its ridiculous to believe Rasulullah shallallahu alaihi wasallam didnt love Uthman RA. Marrying off 2 daughters is enough proof of that. Even an extremist shia can't deny that in their heart although they can deny it with their tounge.
Title: Re: Qualities of Uthman (RA)
Post by: Ameen on March 21, 2015, 02:44:44 AM
My dear brothers, no one is challenging anyone's virtues, merits, status or character. Certain brothers have just got it in their head and follow illusions and assumptions.

The question is and what start this was the following,

"Ali knew Usman was superior than him because Usman married two of the Prophet's (pbuh) daughters",

Lets stick to this statement because this is what started this. My question is and was that being married to the Prophet's (pbuh) daughter, is this a reason for privilege and honour or superiority and highness???

Come on gentlemen, this is what it's all about and this is what I have been asking all along. All I've got so far is twisting and turning, hopping and skipping from one place to the other.
Title: Re: Qualities of Uthman (RA)
Post by: Optimus Prime on March 21, 2015, 04:04:14 AM
My dear brothers, no one is challenging anyone's virtues, merits, status or character. Certain brothers have just got it in their head and follow illusions and assumptions.

The question is and what start this was the following,

"Ali knew Usman was superior than him because Usman married two of the Prophet's (pbuh) daughters",

Lets stick to this statement because this is what started this. My question is and was that being married to the Prophet's (pbuh) daughter, is this a reason for privilege and honour or superiority and highness???

Come on gentlemen, this is what it's all about and this is what I have been asking all along. All I've got so far is twisting and turning, hopping and skipping from one place to the other.

Ameen, first, quit being a chicken and answer brother Hadrami's post head-on. That's an order.

Your question has been answered more than once. Re-read the thread if you genuinely don't understand.
Title: Re: Qualities of Uthman (RA)
Post by: Hadrami on March 21, 2015, 09:35:21 AM
one thing for sure is shia often use Ali's marriage to Fatimah RA as proof that he was above everyone else. So using shia way of thinking then Uthman RA is better than Ali RA although we Sunni dont use that excuse.

Now please answer my question
Title: Re: Qualities of Uthman (RA)
Post by: Hadrami on March 22, 2015, 12:04:39 AM
My dear brothers, no one is challenging anyone's virtues, merits, status or character. Certain brothers have just got it in their head and follow illusions and assumptions.

The question is and what start this was the following,

"Ali knew Usman was superior than him because Usman married two of the Prophet's (pbuh) daughters",

Lets stick to this statement because this is what started this. My question is and was that being married to the Prophet's (pbuh) daughter, is this a reason for privilege and honour or superiority and highness???

Stop being a whinger, that is just one of MANY excellent qualities he has. If thats the only barometer for whether someone is a best Muslim, then we Sunni will recognise he is above everyone. Nobody say he was better than Ali RA ONLY because of it. Its just you trying to avoid the OBVIOUS that Uthman RA was not just good enough once, but twice.

Stop being a whimp and answer this.

Will you marry your daughter to a guy and then again another daughter to the same guy if you dont like him or dont believe he has excellent character? Will you?

If you answer no, then Uthman RA in fact  better than just an ordinary good guy.

If you answer yes, then there are so many things wrong in your head...to keep it short.
Title: Re: Qualities of Uthman (RA)
Post by: Ameen on March 22, 2015, 12:24:50 AM
First of all I'm not a chicken. I have to tell you this because it seems to me you can't distinguish between chickens and humans. I will post you a picture of what a chicken looks like then just compare it to yourself and you will clearly see the difference.

Ali Knew Usman was superior than him. Why??? Because he was married to two of the Prophet's (pbuh) daughters.

Gentlemen it seems to me you have just got yourselves stuck in the mud here. Just be careful and think things through before shooting off statements. Otherwise explain yourselves.

That's an order??? Really??? Since when did you become khalifatul Muslimeen???
Title: Re: Qualities of Uthman (RA)
Post by: Ameen on March 22, 2015, 12:43:57 AM
You would marry your daughter to a good guy but why marry your second daughter to him or even your first when you have others who are even better than this good guy???

Abu Bakar and Umar both asked Fatimah's hand in marriage but were turned down by the Messenger (pbuh), why??? Were they not good enough??? Either admit that Usman wasn't just a good guy but was better than the rest and this is why the Prophet (pbuh) married the second daughter to him.
 
A question to you, why would you marry your daughter to a good guy when even better (Abu Bakar and Umar) were available???
Title: Re: Qualities of Uthman (RA)
Post by: Ameen on March 22, 2015, 12:56:49 AM
Well if you claim that Shias often use Ali's marriage to Fatimah that he was above everyone else then, you should say that,

"Shias need to know that Usman was above Ali and everyone else in such a case since he was married to two daughters of the Prophet (pbuh)".

But this is what was said,

"Ali knew that Usman was superior than him since he was married to two of the Prophet's (pbuh) daughters".

My dear brother Hadrami, you're just looking for excuse now. But I am on your tail.
Title: Re: Qualities of Uthman (RA)
Post by: Optimus Prime on March 22, 2015, 01:58:50 AM
First of all I'm not a chicken. I have to tell you this because it seems to me you can't distinguish between chickens and humans. I will post you a picture of what a chicken looks like then just compare it to yourself and you will clearly see the difference.

Ali Knew Usman was superior than him. Why??? Because he was married to two of the Prophet's (pbuh) daughters.

Gentlemen it seems to me you have just got yourselves stuck in the mud here. Just be careful and think things through before shooting off statements. Otherwise explain yourselves.

That's an order??? Really??? Since when did you become khalifatul Muslimeen???

Maybe chicken wasn't the right word to use, but coward. Yeah, that's it.

I'm ordering you because I'm your superior now answer the question accordingly.
Title: Re: Qualities of Uthman (RA)
Post by: Hadrami on March 22, 2015, 02:00:08 AM
Well if you claim that Shias often use Ali's marriage to Fatimah that he was above everyone else then, you should say that,

"Shias need to know that Usman was above Ali and everyone else in such a case since he was married to two daughters of the Prophet (pbuh)".

But this is what was said,

"Ali knew that Usman was superior than him since he was married to two of the Prophet's (pbuh) daughters".

My dear brother Hadrami, you're just looking for excuse now. But I am on your tail.

I didn't claim ""Shias need to know that Usman was above Ali and everyone else in such a case since he was married to two daughters of the Prophet (pbuh)". If it was, Sunni will say he is even better that Syaikhain RA. Dont you get it?

So object to whoever believe that, not me. Just answer a simple question. Will you marry your daughter to a man and then again marry your other daughter to that same man unless you really really like that man?

I know it's hard for a shia to answer a simple question, but there's a first to everything. Give it a go. Yes or no?
Title: Re: Qualities of Uthman (RA)
Post by: Optimus Prime on March 22, 2015, 02:02:44 AM
Well if you claim that Shias often use Ali's marriage to Fatimah that he was above everyone else then, you should say that,

"Shias need to know that Usman was above Ali and everyone else in such a case since he was married to two daughters of the Prophet (pbuh)".

But this is what was said,

"Ali knew that Usman was superior than him since he was married to two of the Prophet's (pbuh) daughters".

My dear brother Hadrami, you're just looking for excuse now. But I am on your tail.

This is not answering the question accordingly.

Again, you're trying to put words in our mouth it is not the creed of Sunni Muslims to say that Uthman (RA) was above Ali (RA) just because he was married to two daughters of the Prophet (SAW) because due to a list of many other virtues too. How many times has this been repeated in this thread? You nitpick one point and throw out of context or you're incapable of comprehending simple Angrezi. Which, one is it, kiddo?
Title: Re: Qualities of Uthman (RA)
Post by: Hadrami on March 22, 2015, 02:08:43 AM
OK since Ameen can't answer a simple question like that. Can others following this thread tell me if you will marry your daughter to a guy and then another daughter to that same guy if you don't know if that guy is a really really good person?
Title: Re: Qualities of Uthman (RA)
Post by: Optimus Prime on March 22, 2015, 02:21:05 AM
OK since Ameen can't answer a simple question like that. Can others following this thread tell me if you will marry your daughter to a guy and then another daughter to that same guy if you don't know if that guy is a really really good person?


I'll go first.

Phat chance unless I was under some hypnotic spell otherwise hell-no. :D
Title: Re: Qualities of Uthman (RA)
Post by: Furkan on March 22, 2015, 05:00:21 AM
I would even give a third daughter ;)
Title: Re: Qualities of Uthman (RA)
Post by: Hadrami on March 22, 2015, 06:59:55 AM
I would even give a third daughter ;)

only if you know that hes really really good right? Ameen is unsure if Uthman RA was a good guy or not.

I guess when his first imam marry his daughter to Umar RA, he was also unsure :)
Title: Re: Qualities of Uthman (RA)
Post by: Furkan on March 22, 2015, 01:01:39 PM
Ameen, you see the truth already In sha Allah
Title: Re: Qualities of Uthman (RA)
Post by: Optimus Prime on March 22, 2015, 04:38:02 PM
I would even give a third daughter ;)

only if you know that hes really really good right? Ameen is unsure if Uthman RA was a good guy or not.

I guess when his first imam marry his daughter to Umar RA, he was also unsure :)

Good one.
Title: Re: Qualities of Uthman (RA)
Post by: Optimus Prime on March 22, 2015, 04:38:10 PM
Ameen, you see the truth already In sha Allah

Ameen, lol.
Title: Re: Qualities of Uthman (RA)
Post by: Ameen on March 22, 2015, 11:56:05 PM
Bro, you have a straightforward answer. Second daughter??? No I will not even marry my first daughter, to a good man as such. Why??? Because there are better men available. Either accept that Usman was better and more worthy than the Shaikhain or put a question mark on the Prophet (pbuh). The Shaikhain asked Fatimah's hand in marriage, why were they turned down???
Title: Re: Qualities of Uthman (RA)
Post by: Ameen on March 23, 2015, 12:44:02 AM
How many daughters did the Prophet (pbuh) have??? 4. The Shaikhain never ever had the privilige to be married to even one of the Prophet's (pbuh) daughters. Why??? Were they not good enough??? They were more better and worthy than Usman. More superior than him, so why were the turned down every time they put a request forward to be married??? Either admit that Usman was superior, more better and worthy or you have double standards.
Title: Re: Qualities of Uthman (RA)
Post by: Hani on March 23, 2015, 12:59:08 AM
Because they were already connected to the Prophet (saw) through their own daughters.
Title: Re: Qualities of Uthman (RA)
Post by: Optimus Prime on March 23, 2015, 01:21:29 AM
Because they were already connected to the Prophet (saw) through their own daughters.

Exactly, but he believes it's not a reflection of the virtue of the father of bride.
Title: Re: Qualities of Uthman (RA)
Post by: Ameen on March 23, 2015, 01:28:14 AM
So when Usman married the Prophet's (pbuh) first daughter were the Shaikhain already connected to the Prophet (pbuh) through their daughters???

So how does superiority work here, the Shaikhain were more superior than Usman and Ali because their daughters were married to the Prophet (pbuh)??

So being married to the Prophet's (pbuh) daughter, does this make you superior or having your daughter married to the Prophet (pbuh)????

Title: Re: Qualities of Uthman (RA)
Post by: Optimus Prime on March 23, 2015, 01:35:31 AM
Bro, you have a straightforward answer. Second daughter??? No I will not even marry my first daughter, to a good man as such. Why??? Because there are better men available. Either accept that Usman was better and more worthy than the Shaikhain or put a question mark on the Prophet (pbuh). The Shaikhain asked Fatimah's hand in marriage, why were they turned down???

The FACT is the Prophet (SAW) did marry two of his daughters to Uthman (RA) whether you like/admit or not. It happened. This in itself shows the quality of the man, but since you're a hardcore Rafidhi at heart you'll never come out and acknowledge that. First, I thought you mis-understood, but you're just being goofy because you're stumped for words.

You're spineless. Let me answer it for you.

"Yes, of course I'd certainly consider marrying my second daughter to same man my late daughter married because he was everything a lady would want in a man."

How difficult was that? If you don't believe in the narration then just come out and admit it instead of playing games.

I think Ameen is mentally disturbed since he's unable to grasp the following statements:

- NO one in this thread said because Uthman's (RA)marriage to two daughters did it make him superior to Ali (RA) - if we have then show us, quote the page number or link it
- Abu Bakr and Umar (RA) were turned down because Prophet (SAW) had already had his set sights on Ali (RA) for the three reasons:

a) He was more in her age-range
b) It was the Prophet's (SAW) way returning the favour to Abu Talib who cared for him (SAW) when he lost his grandfather, and was growing up and played a role in his marriage to Khadijah (RA), so not only did he help raise Ali (RA), but made sure he had a future too
c) All the other companions were already married or had more than one wife, Fatima (RA) as we know like her father (SAW) originally did not want to share a man, something Ali (RA) overlooked when he proposed to the wife of Abu Jahal

Abu Bakr (RA) was 53 at the time of their wedding, and Umar was 43. This is the reasons our seerah scholars, and it makes perfect sense. Again, I am repeating myself here, Islam does encourage or nor does it forbid us frome exploring compatability traits whether that'd be height, same culture, age-cap, race etc.

Understand?
Title: Re: Qualities of Uthman (RA)
Post by: Optimus Prime on March 23, 2015, 01:36:01 AM
So when Usman married the Prophet's (pbuh) first daughter were the Shaikhain already connected to the Prophet (pbuh) through their daughters???

So how does superiority work here, the Shaikhain were more superior than Usman and Ali because their daughters were married to the Prophet (pbuh)??

So being married to the Prophet's (pbuh) daughter, does this make you superior or having your daughter married to the Prophet (pbuh)????



No, the Prophet (SAW) was still married to Khadijah at the time when Raqiyyah (RA) was wedded to Uthman (RA). Their marriage was in Makkah, before the hijrah. She (RA) passed away when everyone returned from the Battle of Badr.

See my earlier post to address your remaining points again.
Title: Re: Qualities of Uthman (RA)
Post by: Hadrami on March 23, 2015, 02:51:21 AM
such a simple question and yet for shia, its sooooo hard. I feel so sorry for your daughter Ameen, because you will marry your daughter even if you dont know a guy is good or not.

But hey, your first imam married his daughter to a guy who abused his wife right?

Thats what will happen to someone's brain if they believe in shitism
Title: Re: Qualities of Uthman (RA)
Post by: Furkan on March 23, 2015, 02:55:03 AM
edited
Title: Re: Qualities of Uthman (RA)
Post by: Optimus Prime on March 23, 2015, 02:57:39 AM
Ameen will give his daughter away for mutah even, since it's a sunnah of the twelvth imam.

Brother, I'd edit this post because I think a comment like this is uncalled for. It's getting personal a lil'.
Title: Re: Qualities of Uthman (RA)
Post by: Furkan on March 23, 2015, 03:00:38 AM
done
Title: Re: Qualities of Uthman (RA)
Post by: Hani on March 23, 2015, 11:53:50 AM
So when Usman married the Prophet's (pbuh) first daughter were the Shaikhain already connected to the Prophet (pbuh) through their daughters???

So how does superiority work here, the Shaikhain were more superior than Usman and Ali because their daughters were married to the Prophet (pbuh)??

So being married to the Prophet's (pbuh) daughter, does this make you superior or having your daughter married to the Prophet (pbuh)????



Doesn't matter which way, the Prophet (saw) obviously married the two girls to establish a connection with their fathers, it wasn't random.

When `Uthman's first wife died, he (saw) gave him her sister so that the connection may remain established.
Title: Re: Qualities of Uthman (RA)
Post by: Ameen on March 23, 2015, 03:56:17 PM
Gentlemen you need to calm down. You're getting personal and too carried away. This is not the sign of intelligent people.

I expect better from you and I know that you can deliver better. This is not about me being disturbed or rejecting anything.

It's not about virtues or merits. There was a post on a thread where it was said that Ali knew Usman was superior than him, above him. Why? Because he was married to two of the Prophet's (pbuh) daughters.

This is the statement I challenged. First of all superiority by such means only comes when the situation is the same, when the circumstances are equal.

Usman's first wife dies and the opportunity for him to marry to another daughter was available. But this opportunity was not available and present for Ali.

So there is no comparison here on such a basis. If such an opportunity was available and the circumstances did exist the, Ali was passed or overlooked the, one can consider this as a virtue and merit of Usman on the basis of superiority.

Otherwise you are just talking in the wind. You are trying to show connections and prove them as somekind of merit leading to superiority.

The Prophet (pbuh) married for various reasons and one of those reasons was to try and build a stable or make matters better with certain individuals because things weren't right and did go according to plan.Not because certain individuals were great and extraordinary.

Otherwise Abu Sufyan falls in to the same category as the Shaikhain and we all knew Abu Sufyan's stance and behaviour towards the Messenger (pbuh), Islam and the Muslims.

As for you question once again, why would the Prophet (pbuh) give his daughter to a good man like Usman when even better and greater individuals (Shaikhain) were available?

The Shaikhain did put a request forward for every daughter of the Prophet (pbuh) but were unfortunately turned down??? Why???

The excuse for the last daughter (Fatimah) is there (because they were already connected to the Prophet (pbuh)). But what about the request for the first three daughters???

Why were the Shaikhain overlooked each and every time????

All you gentlemen do is look for excuse rather than accepting or at least talking about reality and facts.

As far as Umar being married to Ali's daughter, I do not believe in this but I am not arrogant and stubborn as some that I don't leave room open and present for discussion.

Tell me when did Ali marry his daughter to Umar??? When did this marriage take place??? What were the exact ages of both Umar and Ali's daughter??? Who read the Nikkah?? And where did this marriage take place???
Title: Re: Qualities of Uthman (RA)
Post by: Ameen on March 23, 2015, 04:10:55 PM
Gentlemen just a few typing errors. Typing from my phone.

If the opportunity was available and the circumstances were present for Ali to marry another daughter of the Prophet (pbuh) after the death of Fatimah and Ali was overlooked, he was passed, only then one can use this virtue of Usman as a merit towards superiority and being above Ali.

As we all know this wasn't the case. Also the Prophet (pbuh) married certain women for the reason to establish better relations with their fathers, families and relations because things were not stable and had not gone according to plan.

This is why the Prophet (pbuh) married certain women to better relations and ease the bitternes, hatred, hesitation and or tensions that existed.
Title: Re: Qualities of Uthman (RA)
Post by: Optimus Prime on March 23, 2015, 04:18:00 PM
Gentlemen you need to calm down. You're getting personal and too carried away. This is not the sign of intelligent people.

I expect better from you and I know that you can deliver better. This is not about me being disturbed or rejecting anything.

It's not about virtues or merits. There was a post on a thread where it was said that Ali knew Usman was superior than him, above him. Why? Because he was married to two of the Prophet's (pbuh) daughters.

This is the statement I challenged. First of all superiority by such means only comes when the situation is the same, when the circumstances are equal.

Usman's first wife dies and the opportunity for him to marry to another daughter was available. But this opportunity was not available and present for Ali.

So there is no comparison here on such a basis. If such an opportunity was available and the circumstances did exist the, Ali was passed or overlooked the, one can consider this as a virtue and merit of Usman on the basis of superiority.

Otherwise you are just talking in the wind. You are trying to show connections and prove them as somekind of merit leading to superiority.

The Prophet (pbuh) married for various reasons and one of those reasons was to try and build a stable or make matters better with certain individuals because things weren't right and did go according to plan.Not because certain individuals were great and extraordinary.

Otherwise Abu Sufyan falls in to the same category as the Shaikhain and we all knew Abu Sufyan's stance and behaviour towards the Messenger (pbuh), Islam and the Muslims.

As for you question once again, why would the Prophet (pbuh) give his daughter to a good man like Usman when even better and greater individuals (Shaikhain) were available?

The Shaikhain did put a request forward for every daughter of the Prophet (pbuh) but were unfortunately turned down??? Why???

The excuse for the last daughter (Fatimah) is there (because they were already connected to the Prophet (pbuh)). But what about the request for the first three daughters???

Why were the Shaikhain overlooked each and every time????

All you gentlemen do is look for excuse rather than accepting or at least talking about reality and facts.

As far as Umar being married to Ali's daughter, I do not believe in this but I am not arrogant and stubborn as some that I don't leave room open and present for discussion.

Tell me when did Ali marry his daughter to Umar??? When did this marriage take place??? What were the exact ages of both Umar and Ali's daughter??? Who read the Nikkah?? And where did this marriage take place???

Ameen, you seriously are a lost cause.


Quote
It's not about virtues or merits. There was a post on a thread where it was said that Ali knew Usman was superior than him, above him. Why? Because he was married to two of the Prophet's (pbuh) daughters.

This is the statement I challenged. First of all superiority by such means only comes when the situation is the same, when the circumstances are equal.

Let me repeat myself for the FINAL time since you're too damn lazy to browsw the thread yourself. NO one said in this thread that Uthman's (RA) marriage to two daughters by default makes him higher in rank than Ali (RA). If someone has then SHOW us WHO made this statement? WhICH, page number in this thread? WHAT is the post number? Help us to filter and narrow the search so can we help put your feeble mind at rest.

You KEEP asking the same QUESTION, but fail miserably to read that no one said or meant to have said: "Uthman's (RA) marriage to the two daughters makes him superior". The fact we're questionning this should raise some alerts in your mind that these people clearly don't believe this, but, NO. You're just arguing for the sake of it aren't you?

Hello, the opportunity to marry Umm Khulthum (RA) wasn't presented to Ali (RA) because:

- He was ALREADY married
- Fatima (RA) did not want to life a polygamous lifestyle as per the narrartion that upset her thanks to Ali (RA) beign forgetful, and resulted in the Prophet (SAW) making that infamous statement "Fatima is apart of me, who upsets her upsets me, who upsets me upsets Allah" - the funny and ironic thing is you use this against ABu Bakr (RA) because of the Fadak squabble, not realisng it was Ali (RA) that brought it on, but that's another topic isn't it ;)


Seriously, your knowledge of the Prophet's (SAW) family is weak and dormant.

Agreed to a certain extent that every women the Prophet (SAW) married doesn't mean their respective tribes or family are of great stature, but this is an exception for Abu Bakr (RA) and Umar (RA) as they are the GREATEST duo for a list of reasons that will make your head hurt. Having said that it doesn't mean the women themselves were not of great valor, Allah (SWT) would never choose a wife for the Prophet (SAW) except the most pious and virtue which, doesn't mean they have to infallible, Yes, I can deduce thought evil thoughts in your head right about now about throwing the verse 33:36 in the mix. Don't even think about it because we're cornerning you and your only escape to avoid further embarrassement is the need to jump topics. Carry out some research on some of these great women, and you'll learn why, Insh'Allah. The fact all of them are divinely titled as "Mother of the Believers" confirms they are higher in rank than YOUR mom and MY mom at the very least. :D

Quote
The Shaikhain did put a request forward for every daughter of the Prophet (pbuh) but were unfortunately turned down??? Why???

Give me a break, seriously. Go read my previous posts.

Do a seperate thread regarding Umar's (RA) marriage to Umm Khulthum bint Ali (RA), and we'll be more than happy to confirm how it's confirmed even in your OWN sources. Of course you won't believe because your internal system can't swallow such a reality that the companions and Ahlul Bhait lived harmoniously for much of the time.
Title: Re: Qualities of Uthman (RA)
Post by: Optimus Prime on March 23, 2015, 04:48:48 PM
Gentlemen just a few typing errors. Typing from my phone.

If the opportunity was available and the circumstances were present for Ali to marry another daughter of the Prophet (pbuh) after the death of Fatimah and Ali was overlooked, he was passed, only then one can use this virtue of Usman as a merit towards superiority and being above Ali.

As we all know this wasn't the case. Also the Prophet (pbuh) married certain women for the reason to establish better relations with their fathers, families and relations because things were not stable and had not gone according to plan.

This is why the Prophet (pbuh) married certain women to better relations and ease the bitternes, hatred, hesitation and or tensions that existed.

Yes, if marrying more than one daughter was a criterion for superiority, but it isn't. It's certainy contribiting factor, but that's it. That is the point we are making. Having said that your logic is still flawed. If the Prophet (SAW) wanted to marry Umm Khulthum (RA), and didn't choose Ali (RA) it doesn't mean the lucky groom is superior to him, but could be down to compatability. No doubt all the companions (RA) were pious at the time. They must be if they were willing to leave Makkah their home and travel to Madinah just so they can worship their Lord conveniently, right?
Title: Re: Qualities of Uthman (RA)
Post by: Optimus Prime on March 23, 2015, 05:03:38 PM


Watch this clip and learn of two companions. Both of them were deformed yet the Prophet (SAW) got them married to prestigious women.

One was known for her beauty and, the other was from the Prophet's (SAW) family. Now this second companion who was called Sa'ad (forgot full name) was married in the Prophet's (SAW) family, her cousin. Now you don't see any Sunni stating he is NOW superior than Abu Bakr and Umar (RA) since neither of them got married in the family.

Why? Because it's not the case.
Title: Re: Qualities of Uthman (RA)
Post by: Ameen on March 23, 2015, 05:12:45 PM
listen, I'm not interested in your sarcastic nonsense and your personal grudge.

Why was Umar's marriage to Umme Qulsoom mentioned in this thread to begin with???

Question and jump up and down on the one who mentioned this and accuse him of going off topic.

If you want to mention and convince me of my first Imam marrying off one of his daughters to Umar then, you need to answer questions and bring forward facts to prove this.

I don't need to do or start anything.Either stop yourself and your pals of mentioning things unrelated to the thread and going off topic or get a grip on yourself.

The rest of your post I will comment on later.
Title: Re: Qualities of Uthman (RA)
Post by: Optimus Prime on March 23, 2015, 05:32:23 PM
listen, I'm not interested in your sarcastic nonsense and your personal grudge.

Why was Umar's marriage to Umme Qulsoom mentioned in this thread to begin with???

Question and jump up and down on the one who mentioned this and accuse him of going off topic.

If you want to mention and convince me of my first Imam marrying off one of his daughters to Umar then, you need to answer questions and bring forward facts to prove this.

I don't need to do or start anything.Either stop yourself and your pals of mentioning things unrelated to the thread and going off topic or get a grip on yourself.

The rest of your post I will comment on later.

Ameen, I implore you to read thoroughly our replies before you post a reply because it's the same thing that's been addressed many times.

I admit Umar's (RA) marriage to Umm Khlthum bint Ali (RA) was irrelevant to the thread, but Hadrami mentioned since you were refusing to answer his question which, confirmed beyond a spec of doubt that Uthman (WAS) was an okay man at the very least, but since you refused and kept drawing comparisons with Umar (RA) being turned down for marrying Fatima (RA) he made you pyschologically bleed by affirming and reminding you that Ali (RA) married Umm Khulthum bint Ali (RA) to Umar (RA), why? Because Umar (RA) is a man of solid taqwa otherwise it makes Ali (RA) look like a rotten father to marry his daughter to an alleged murder, and who was was responsible for killing the bride's mother.

This shows how Rafidhi logic is flawed, ROFL.
Title: Re: Qualities of Uthman (RA)
Post by: Hani on March 23, 2015, 08:52:19 PM
@Ameen,

Everything you guys are discussing is off-topic and useless, the topic is not whether `Ali is superior to `Uthman or vice-versa, the issue with the Rafidah is not that they prefer `Ali over `Uthman, their issue is that they curse `Uthman and accuse him of being a filthy corrupt man.

Now we go back to the topic of:

Would the Prophet (saw) who is divinely guided, marry-off two of his daughters to `Uthman, if `Uthman was a corrupt impious man with filthy character?

Yes or No?

Title: Re: Qualities of Uthman (RA)
Post by: Optimus Prime on March 23, 2015, 09:17:55 PM
@Ameen,

Everything you guys are discussing is off-topic and useless, the topic is not whether `Ali is superior to `Uthman or vice-versa, the issue with the Rafidah is not that they prefer `Ali over `Uthman, their issue is that they curse `Uthman and accuse him of being a filthy corrupt man.

Now we go back to the topic of:

Would the Prophet (saw) who is divinely guided, marry-off two of his daughters to `Uthman, if `Uthman was a corrupt impious man with filthy character?

Yes or No?



Hani, Asalamualaikum.

It is a little off-topic, but I think it's and was necessary to give Ameen some perspective.

Yes/No questions doesn't suit him, watch, he'll answer with a question or an explanation about somethng that has no bearing on this discussion.
Title: Re: Qualities of Uthman (RA)
Post by: Hadrami on March 24, 2015, 01:29:46 AM
@Ameen,

Everything you guys are discussing is off-topic and useless, the topic is not whether `Ali is superior to `Uthman or vice-versa, the issue with the Rafidah is not that they prefer `Ali over `Uthman, their issue is that they curse `Uthman and accuse him of being a filthy corrupt man.

Now we go back to the topic of:

Would the Prophet (saw) who is divinely guided, marry-off two of his daughters to `Uthman, if `Uthman was a corrupt impious man with filthy character?

Yes or No?



I have asked him that simple question several times. If Ammeen will answer yours, then you have very very special skill :D
Title: Re: Qualities of Uthman (RA)
Post by: Ameen on March 24, 2015, 01:03:25 PM
Ok my dear brother Imam Ali, this is what brother Hadrami said on the thread,

"Hassan and Hussain got slapped by their father",

Actions

Re: Hassan (RA) & Hussain (RA) got slapped by their father
« Reply #4 on: March 16, 2015, 10:10:07 PM »
Quote from: Hadrami on March 16, 2015, 09:59:21 PM
this is one of the reason why i admire him so much. The only man whom Rasulullah shallallahu alaihi wasallam considered good enough to marry 2, not just 1 of his noble daughters. The only leader of a superpower nation in history who would rather die than having someone else fight for him. It is insane not to at least recognise that instead of cursing him RA.

And this is what you said in your reply,

"Yes, Ali (RA) knew Uthman (RA) was superior to him.

The only person to have married 2 daughters of a Prophet.
Report to moderator     Logged".

This is what I was responding to all this time and chasing you for a reply. and all you have done is twist and turn things around and started to jump up and down from one place to the other. Now you are denying it and rejecting that anybody said this.

Well here it is. It's in black and white and right in front of you. Just pull yourself together and get your act right instead of mouthing off.
Title: Re: Qualities of Uthman (RA)
Post by: Optimus Prime on March 24, 2015, 01:40:20 PM
Ok my dear brother Imam Ali, this is what brother Hadrami said on the thread,

"Hassan and Hussain got slapped by their father",

Actions

Re: Hassan (RA) & Hussain (RA) got slapped by their father
« Reply #4 on: March 16, 2015, 10:10:07 PM »
Quote from: Hadrami on March 16, 2015, 09:59:21 PM
this is one of the reason why i admire him so much. The only man whom Rasulullah shallallahu alaihi wasallam considered good enough to marry 2, not just 1 of his noble daughters. The only leader of a superpower nation in history who would rather die than having someone else fight for him. It is insane not to at least recognise that instead of cursing him RA.

And this is what you said in your reply,

"Yes, Ali (RA) knew Uthman (RA) was superior to him.

The only person to have married 2 daughters of a Prophet.
Report to moderator     Logged".

This is what I was responding to all this time and chasing you for a reply. and all you have done is twist and turn things around and started to jump up and down from one place to the other. Now you are denying it and rejecting that anybody said this.

Well here it is. It's in black and white and right in front of you. Just pull yourself together and get your act right instead of mouthing off.

Ameen, thank you for addressing me so kindly, but the feeling is not mutual. Just, so you know. :)

My response ""Yes, Ali (RA) knew Uthman (RA) was superior to him." was in connection with Hadrami's final post regarding how he was not able to cause bloodhshed at his own expense. He made more than one point here didn't he.

I can see how it wasn't quite clear, and why you'd question it. Having said that, I told you enough times that this is not the case yet you persisted asking the same thing about 4 or 5 times. If you had brought this up earlier then this whole thing could've been avoided, but it's been fun and educational.

Let the matter rest now. You now know on the basis Uthman (RA) is superior to Ali (RA).
Title: Re: Qualities of Uthman (RA)
Post by: Hadrami on March 24, 2015, 02:33:41 PM
Hani, looks like Ameen ignores your simple question too, punk :D
Title: Re: Qualities of Uthman (RA)
Post by: Optimus Prime on March 24, 2015, 03:02:10 PM
Hani, looks like Ameen ignores your simple question too, punk :D

Praising companions unless he was a supporter of Ali (RA) is frowned upon brother.

Uthman (RA) married members of the Ahlul Bhait, and they can't even regard that as an honour. What a weird religion, innit.
Title: Re: Qualities of Uthman (RA)
Post by: Furkan on March 24, 2015, 06:08:31 PM
I will try asking it too maybe :p
Title: Re: Qualities of Uthman (RA)
Post by: ahlebaitlover on March 24, 2015, 06:55:15 PM
What bigger Honour than to marry TWO of the daughter of the Prophet peace be upon him???

Talking about ahle bait, even shias don't call of the family ahlebait, only the 11 imams and 12th legendary spiderman who is to come. Even some of Hassan RA family is not regarded as ahlebait.
Title: Re: Qualities of Uthman (RA)
Post by: Optimus Prime on March 24, 2015, 07:01:59 PM
What bigger Honour than to marry TWO of the daughter of the Prophet peace be upon him???

Talking about ahle bait, even shias don't call of the family ahlebait, only the 11 imams and 12th legendary spiderman who is to come. Even some of Hassan RA family is not regarded as ahlebait.

Not to forget the progeny of Abbas ibn Abu Mutalib (RA).
Title: Re: Qualities of Uthman (RA)
Post by: ahlebaitlover on March 24, 2015, 07:18:52 PM
Shias hate Abdullah Ibn Abbas, yasir al habeeb the hell bound scum calls him a munafiq. WHY? because he called Muaviyaa RA a FAQIH as per Saheeh AL Bukhari.

SO when talking about ahle bait, it doesn't matter if it the Prophets WIFE or his daughter, if it goes against their cursed creed then they are not part of the ahle bait.
Title: Re: Qualities of Uthman (RA)
Post by: Ameen on March 24, 2015, 08:26:15 PM
Ok my dear brother Imam Ali, this is what brother Hadrami said on the thread,

"Hassan and Hussain got slapped by their father",

Actions

Re: Hassan (RA) & Hussain (RA) got slapped by their father
« Reply #4 on: March 16, 2015, 10:10:07 PM »
Quote from: Hadrami on March 16, 2015, 09:59:21 PM
this is one of the reason why i admire him so much. The only man whom Rasulullah shallallahu alaihi wasallam considered good enough to marry 2, not just 1 of his noble daughters. The only leader of a superpower nation in history who would rather die than having someone else fight for him. It is insane not to at least recognise that instead of cursing him RA.

And this is what you said in your reply,

"Yes, Ali (RA) knew Uthman (RA) was superior to him.

The only person to have married 2 daughters of a Prophet.
Report to moderator     Logged".

This is what I was responding to all this time and chasing you for a reply. and all you have done is twist and turn things around and started to jump up and down from one place to the other. Now you are denying it and rejecting that anybody said this.

Well here it is. It's in black and white and right in front of you. Just pull yourself together and get your act right instead of mouthing off.

Ameen, thank you for addressing me so kindly, but the feeling is not mutual. Just, so you know. :)

My response ""Yes, Ali (RA) knew Uthman (RA) was superior to him." was in connection with Hadrami's final post regarding how he was not able to cause bloodhshed at his own expense. He made more than one point here didn't he.

I can see how it wasn't quite clear, and why you'd question it. Having said that, I told you enough times that this is not the case yet you persisted asking the same thing about 4 or 5 times. If you had brought this up earlier then this whole thing could've been avoided, but it's been fun and educational.

Let the matter rest now. You now know on the basis Uthman (RA) is superior to Ali (RA).

The feeling is not mutual, just so I know???? Tell me something that I am not aware of. I am aware of the ideology that I am dealing with and the people who I am up against. How can our feelings or behaviour towards each other be mutual. We are very different.

Where we take Quran and Sunnah from is different and our teachings are different. But thanks anyway. Just to let you know these things and such behaviour doesn't bother me. They never have and they never will. I see such things and to dwell on them as an obstruction to my aim and goal.

As far as I am concerned the matter is settled and my job is done. Just a note to the audience/viewers, my brothers believe if half principals and half statements. For example,

"Yes, Ali (RA) knew Uthman (RA) was superior to him.

The only person to have married 2 daughters of a Prophet",

And this was a back up response to,

"this is one of the reason why i admire him so much. The only man whom Rasulullah shallallahu alaihi wasallam considered good enough to marry 2, not just 1 of his noble daughters".

Now the full statement is that,

"Ali knew Usman was superior to him because he married two of the Prophet's (pbuh) daughters. And the Shaikhain knew that both Ali and Usman were superior to them because Ali married one and Usman married two of the Prophet's (pbuh) daughters and the Shaikhain didn't get the privilege to marry any. So the Shaikhain both are inferior to Ali and Usman, due to this virtue and merit.

It is crystal clear that the brothers should also believe in this but are two hesitant and shy to believe in the whole principal and give a full statement. Or they just have double standards!
Title: Re: Qualities of Uthman (RA)
Post by: Optimus Prime on March 24, 2015, 09:45:49 PM
Ok my dear brother Imam Ali, this is what brother Hadrami said on the thread,

"Hassan and Hussain got slapped by their father",

Actions

Re: Hassan (RA) & Hussain (RA) got slapped by their father
« Reply #4 on: March 16, 2015, 10:10:07 PM »
Quote from: Hadrami on March 16, 2015, 09:59:21 PM
this is one of the reason why i admire him so much. The only man whom Rasulullah shallallahu alaihi wasallam considered good enough to marry 2, not just 1 of his noble daughters. The only leader of a superpower nation in history who would rather die than having someone else fight for him. It is insane not to at least recognise that instead of cursing him RA.

And this is what you said in your reply,

"Yes, Ali (RA) knew Uthman (RA) was superior to him.

The only person to have married 2 daughters of a Prophet.
Report to moderator     Logged".

This is what I was responding to all this time and chasing you for a reply. and all you have done is twist and turn things around and started to jump up and down from one place to the other. Now you are denying it and rejecting that anybody said this.

Well here it is. It's in black and white and right in front of you. Just pull yourself together and get your act right instead of mouthing off.

Ameen, thank you for addressing me so kindly, but the feeling is not mutual. Just, so you know. :)

My response ""Yes, Ali (RA) knew Uthman (RA) was superior to him." was in connection with Hadrami's final post regarding how he was not able to cause bloodhshed at his own expense. He made more than one point here didn't he.

I can see how it wasn't quite clear, and why you'd question it. Having said that, I told you enough times that this is not the case yet you persisted asking the same thing about 4 or 5 times. If you had brought this up earlier then this whole thing could've been avoided, but it's been fun and educational.

Let the matter rest now. You now know on the basis Uthman (RA) is superior to Ali (RA).

The feeling is not mutual, just so I know???? Tell me something that I am not aware of. I am aware of the ideology that I am dealing with and the people who I am up against. How can our feelings or behaviour towards each other be mutual. We are very different.

Where we take Quran and Sunnah from is different and our teachings are different. But thanks anyway. Just to let you know these things and such behaviour doesn't bother me. They never have and they never will. I see such things and to dwell on them as an obstruction to my aim and goal.

As far as I am concerned the matter is settled and my job is done. Just a note to the audience/viewers, my brothers believe if half principals and half statements. For example,

"Yes, Ali (RA) knew Uthman (RA) was superior to him.

The only person to have married 2 daughters of a Prophet",

And this was a back up response to,

"this is one of the reason why i admire him so much. The only man whom Rasulullah shallallahu alaihi wasallam considered good enough to marry 2, not just 1 of his noble daughters".

Now the full statement is that,

"Ali knew Usman was superior to him because he married two of the Prophet's (pbuh) daughters. And the Shaikhain knew that both Ali and Usman were superior to them because Ali married one and Usman married two of the Prophet's (pbuh) daughters and the Shaikhain didn't get the privilege to marry any. So the Shaikhain both are inferior to Ali and Usman, due to this virtue and merit.

It is crystal clear that the brothers should also believe in this but are two hesitant and shy to believe in the whole principal and give a full statement. Or they just have double standards!

Ameen, I think our clarification addressing your points is/are very clear and more than sufficient. We'll leave the thread open and let the audience judge for themselves.

The main thing, I urge people to take from this thread, particularly Shias is the unique status, and position of this man. To learn how Uthman (RA) was someone very VERY special in Islamic history and to the Prophet (SAW). We'll continue to post authentic narrations that confirm his virtues to prove our points, and Insh'Allah people with a functional akal will acknowledge these facts. Something you refused to do.

Kher, your choice. :)
Title: Re: Qualities of Uthman (RA)
Post by: Furkan on March 24, 2015, 10:12:03 PM
Ameen, are you ignoring some posts on purpose?
Title: Re: Qualities of Uthman (RA)
Post by: Optimus Prime on March 24, 2015, 10:18:33 PM
Ameen, are you ignoring some posts on purpose?

Let it go, akhi.

Let's focus on Uthman (RA), and not Ameen.

He's been defeated. Let's big up Uthman (RA) in this thread.
Title: Re: Qualities of Uthman (RA)
Post by: Ameen on March 24, 2015, 11:51:35 PM
Defeated??? LOL! Like you said, let the people be the judge of that. Yes, talk about the virtues and merits of Usman or any other companion and just stick to that. But if you do go in to superiority again then make sure you get your facts right next time.

Carry on!
Title: Re: Qualities of Uthman (RA)
Post by: Ameen on March 24, 2015, 11:58:56 PM
Shias hate Abdullah Ibn Abbas, yasir al habeeb the hell bound scum calls him a munafiq. WHY? because he called Muaviyaa RA a FAQIH as per Saheeh AL Bukhari.

SO when talking about ahle bait, it doesn't matter if it the Prophets WIFE or his daughter, if it goes against their cursed creed then they are not part of the ahle bait.

What we think, how we define and who we consider as the Ahlul Baith is one matter but when it comes to Allah then this is another matter. You stick to and follow your thinking and we will stick to and follow Ayath e Tatheer (Allah's thinking).

You need to learn a lot about Shiaism and the Shias. Vast majority of you are brain washed right from the very beginning about Shiaism and the Shias, based on gossip and rumours. Some of you need to Learn and educate yourselves. And I know that some of you don't care and their ambition is to raise suspicion and cast doubt about Shiaism and the Shias. Because if they don't people will start turning towards this sect.
Title: Re: Qualities of Uthman (RA)
Post by: Hadrami on March 25, 2015, 12:05:52 AM
My suggestion to bro "Imam Ali", just say yes you believe Uthman RA was better than Ali RA, then Abu Bakar RA & Umar RA, for argument sake.  That way we can get on with THE question which Ameen has been avoiding (I'll quote Hani's)

"Would the Prophet (saw) who is divinely guided, marry-off two of his daughters to `Uthman, if `Uthman was a corrupt impious man with filthy character?

Yes or No?"
Title: Re: Qualities of Uthman (RA)
Post by: Ameen on March 25, 2015, 12:21:58 AM
@Ameen,

Everything you guys are discussing is off-topic and useless, the topic is not whether `Ali is superior to `Uthman or vice-versa, the issue with the Rafidah is not that they prefer `Ali over `Uthman, their issue is that they curse `Uthman and accuse him of being a filthy corrupt man.

Now we go back to the topic of:

Would the Prophet (saw) who is divinely guided, marry-off two of his daughters to `Uthman, if `Uthman was a corrupt impious man with filthy character?

Yes or No?



Let me give you a very simple response. Since we are talking about Usman and I am going to use him as an example. The Prophet (pbuh) married not one but two daughters to him. Why??? Because he was a good man by nature and character. Otherwise the Prophet (pbuh) wouldn't have bothered. Who would marry their daughter if they knew he was of bad nature and character???

Does this mean that Usman will remain good??? Does this mean there is no possibility of him or any other man to turn bad or violent or even adapt some kind of bad habit??? I have seen a lot of marriages turn from good to bad and even worse.

Now obviously this wouldn't apply to Usman because he got the privilege of marrying another daughter of the Prophet (pbuh). So turning bad (violent or aggressive) towards your wife would be out of the question. But where does it say or how does this virtue prove that Usman, when he becomes Khalif, will be a good Khalif??? He will get everything right and absolutely nothing wrong???

Where does it say or how does this virtue prove that when Usman gets authority and power he will remain 100 % good and will use his authority and power100% right and accurate??? Or even before coming Khalif he will remain and be a good person all the way through to Khilafath and right after up to his death???

Exactly the same applies to all the other companions and Khalifs. The sooner you understand and or accept these basic things concerning reality and facts, these things which have to do and are attached to human nature itself, the better it will be for you and everyone else.
Title: Re: Qualities of Uthman (RA)
Post by: Ameen on March 25, 2015, 12:30:14 AM
Absolutely yes my beloved brothers, Usman was a good person at the time when the Prophet (pbuh) decide to marry his daughter to him. And he also remained a good person or even became a better person that the Prophet (pbuh) decided to give him his second daughter, after the demise of the first one.

Now my question to you is, how does this virtue prove that he remained a good person after the demise of the Messenger(pbuh)??? How does this virtue prove that he remained a good person when he became Khalif??? How does this virtue prove that he used his authority and power 100% accurately and right after becoming Khalif??? How does this virtue prove that he got absolutely nothing wrong??? What has this virtue got to do with any of this and what are you trying to prove???
Title: Re: Qualities of Uthman (RA)
Post by: Ameen on March 25, 2015, 12:34:50 AM
I was just making a few points and getting certain matters to your attention at first. Now here you are gentlemen, you have two of my posts before this. Lets get the ball rolling!
Title: Re: Qualities of Uthman (RA)
Post by: Hani on March 25, 2015, 12:43:23 AM

Let me give you a very simple response. Since we are talking about Usman and I am going to use him as an example. The Prophet (pbuh) married not one but two daughters to him. Why??? Because he was a good man by nature and character. Otherwise the Prophet (pbuh) wouldn't have bothered. Who would marry their daughter if they knew he was of bad nature and character???

Does this mean that Usman will remain good??? Does this mean there is no possibility of him or any other man to turn bad or violent or even adapt some kind of bad habit??? I have seen a lot of marriages turn from good to bad and even worse.

Now obviously this wouldn't apply to Usman because he got the privilege of marrying another daughter of the Prophet (pbuh). So turning bad (violent or aggressive) towards your wife would be out of the question. But where does it say or how does this virtue prove that Usman, when he becomes Khalif, will be a good Khalif??? He will get everything right and absolutely nothing wrong???

Where does it say or how does this virtue prove that when Usman gets authority and power he will remain 100 % good and will use his authority and power100% right and accurate??? Or even before coming Khalif he will remain and be a good person all the way through to Khilafath and right after up to his death???

Exactly the same applies to all the other companions and Khalifs. The sooner you understand and or accept these basic things concerning reality and facts, these things which have to do and are attached to human nature itself, the better it will be for you and everyone else.

Great so what we concluded is that the Prophet (saw) married his daughters to `Uthman because of the man's good character and nature. I'm glad you admitted this.


Does it mean he'll remain good? As you said it does not necessarily prove he'll remain good, but that he was at the time a pious believer with good character.


Of course marrying the Prophet's (saw) daughter does not mean a man will remain good, whether `Ali or `Uthman or any of the others.
Title: Re: Qualities of Uthman (RA)
Post by: Ameen on March 25, 2015, 12:58:36 AM
Brother when it comes to me there is nothing great about it. And there is nothing to admit. Reality and facts are reality and facts and this is who I am.
Title: Re: Qualities of Uthman (RA)
Post by: Furkan on March 25, 2015, 01:23:05 AM
Ameen, then I wonder why we have 5 pages for this simple topic.
Title: Re: Qualities of Uthman (RA)
Post by: Optimus Prime on March 25, 2015, 01:23:50 AM
Absolutely yes my beloved brothers, Usman was a good person at the time when the Prophet (pbuh) decide to marry his daughter to him. And he also remained a good person or even became a better person that the Prophet (pbuh) decided to give him his second daughter, after the demise of the first one.

Now my question to you is, how does this virtue prove that he remained a good person after the demise of the Messenger(pbuh)??? How does this virtue prove that he remained a good person when he became Khalif??? How does this virtue prove that he used his authority and power 100% accurately and right after becoming Khalif??? How does this virtue prove that he got absolutely nothing wrong??? What has this virtue got to do with any of this and what are you trying to prove???

Who drew comparisons between his marriage and his Caliphate? Who implied or said that because he was marriage material he'd make an astute leader? Once, more I ask you clarify or annotate the post in question.

Being an awesome husband doensn't mean you have the skills to become a leader of an entire nation in practice. However, Uthman (RA) is an exception for the following reasons:

- The Prophet (SAW) prophesied his Caliphate and gave him clear-cut instructions when the people of the time ask you to forfeit to stand his ground and not to succumb to unwanted demand - I wonder why he was instructed unless he wasn't a just leader?
- The Prophet (SAW) foretold the fitna to take place at that time, and said Uthman (RA) will be on haq, which is further strengthened by the narration where the Prophet (SAW) for the first 30 years, the Caliphs elected will be on haq
- The Prophet (SAW) promised him Jannah, therefore someone of his status was always going to be make the decisions in the best interest of the Ummah, disagreeing with his political strategic ways is one thing, but to accusse him on foul play is to defy the words of the Prophet (SAW)

Each point can be presented with a narration. I'm sure you've come across some of them already? Would you like me to represent them? Oh, wait you're going to accusse us "of automatically of accepting what suits our view and neglecting Rafidhi logic and faculy of reason", right? :D

Title: Re: Qualities of Uthman (RA)
Post by: Hadrami on March 25, 2015, 05:16:08 AM
Of course marrying the Prophet's (saw) daughter does not mean a man will remain good, whether `Ali or `Uthman or any of the others.

True, but of course there are too many proofs that he remained good, unlike what Shia think of him. I wish Ameen didnt waste so much time just to answer that.

Now, I don't think Uthman RA marriage example as much of a damning proof against Shiaism as Umar RA marriage to Ali RA daughter though. Isn't that correct Ameen?

Was Umar RA also bad (pre-Islam) then good (Islam) then bad again (after Rasulullah shallallahu alaihi wasallam death) and then good again just before Ali RA marry his daughter to him and then bad again until he died? Looks so ridiculous isn't it? :D
Title: Re: Qualities of Uthman (RA)
Post by: Furkan on March 25, 2015, 10:15:23 AM
good bad good bad .... Hhahaha
Title: Re: Qualities of Uthman (RA)
Post by: Mythbuster1 on March 25, 2015, 01:43:53 PM
Sorry but hahahaha at bro hadrami you had me in stitches
Title: Re: Qualities of Uthman (RA)
Post by: Optimus Prime on March 25, 2015, 04:04:11 PM
Of course marrying the Prophet's (saw) daughter does not mean a man will remain good, whether `Ali or `Uthman or any of the others.

True, but of course there are too many proofs that he remained good, unlike what Shia think of him. I wish Ameen didnt waste so much time just to answer that.

Now, I don't think Uthman RA marriage example as much of a damning proof against Shiaism as Umar RA marriage to Ali RA daughter though. Isn't that correct Ameen?

Was Umar RA also bad (pre-Islam) then good (Islam) then bad again (after Rasulullah shallallahu alaihi wasallam death) and then good again just before Ali RA marry his daughter to him and then bad again until he died? Looks so ridiculous isn't it? :D

Let me break it down for Ameen in case he makes a folly excuse, and says he is unable to answer it.

- Pre-Islam when he hadn't accepted Islam = bad
- Then when he was Muslim he obviously made some significant strides like standing up to the persecution of Quraish, and all his other accomplishments whilst the Prophet (SAW) was alive = good
- Then he apparently conspired with Abu Bakr (RA) to usurp the right of Ali (RA) of leadership, killed Fatima (RA) and played a role in poisoning the Prophet (SAW), astagfirullah = bad
- Then he married the daughter of Ali (RA), so the murderer of his wife and father in law becomes his father in law? = bad
- Finally he was killed when leading salah by a fire worshipper whom your people praise to this day by visiting his tomb because of the injustice he caused and spread to foreign lands that were recently conquered by the Muslims i.e. your Persian ancestors= bad

You're hereby commanded to answer Hadrami's question accordingly.

To be fair also, I believe Ameen did confirm he does not believe any of the companions (RA) or Mother of the Believers (RA) had anything to do with the Prophet' (SAW) death.
Title: Re: Qualities of Uthman (RA)
Post by: Optimus Prime on March 25, 2015, 05:01:04 PM
Update on the narrations where the Prophet (SAW) has been reported to have married more daughters to Uthman (RA) are weak. Here is the response:

Question

What is the source and grading of the narration where Nabi (sallallahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) is reported to have said if he had anymore daughters he would’ve given them all to Sayyiduna ‘Uthman (radiyallahu ‘anhu)


Answer

There are various different versions of this narration, Among them are the following:

1) Rasulullah (sallallahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) said:

Marry ‘Uthman, If I had a third daughter I would have married him (to
her) and I have only married him to my daughters through divine revelation (wahy).

(Al Mu’jamul Kabir, Hadith: 490, -vol. 11-)



2) Sayyiduna ‘Uthman (radiyallahu ‘anhu) said to Sayyiduna ‘Abdullah Ibn ‘Abbas (radiyallahu ‘anhuma) that Rasulullah (sallallahu ‘alayhi wa
sallam) said to me when he got me married to his second daughter, “If I had ten (daughters), I would have married them to you one at a time, for I am pleased with you”.

(Al Mu’jamul Awsat, Hadith: 6112)



3) Sayyiduna Abu Hurayrah (radiyallahu ‘anhu) reports that Nabi (sallallahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) said:

…”If I had ten daughters, I would have married them to ‘Uthman and I only got him married to my daughters through divine revelation (wahy)”

(Al Mu’jamul Kabir, Hadith: 1063 -vol. 15-)



4) Nabi (sallallahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) said:

If I had forty daughters, I would have married them one after the other to ‘Uthman.

(Tarikh Ibn ‘Asakir, vol. 39 pg. 43)



The above narrations although weak, support each other sufficiently.

(Refer: Majma’uz Zawaid, vol. 5 pg. 264 and Al Bidayah Wan Nihayah of Hafiz Ibn Kathir, vol. 7 pg. 377)



And Allah Ta’ala knows best



Answered by: Moulana Suhail Motala



Approved by: Moulana Muhammad Abasoomar
Title: Re: Qualities of Uthman (RA)
Post by: imamhussainlover on March 26, 2015, 01:00:12 AM
Hazrat Usman the son in law of the Prophet saw
Title: Re: Qualities of Uthman (RA)
Post by: Ameen on March 26, 2015, 10:40:03 AM
Oh my dear beloved brothers, may the Lord forgive you for you don't know what you are saying.

Since when did I say that this peron was good or that person was bad??? When did I say that this person was a true believer and he became a murtad???

Brothers these are your statements and accusations. You label who are true and whole believers and who became Murtad and contributed towards fitna.

This is your style and method but you don't even stick to it. You have one principal and opinion for the opponents/opposition of one Khalif and another for the others.

Once again to brother Imam Ali, you said "let the matter rest", why are you not doing that???

You are the one who claimed Usman's superiority above Ali through marriage. And it was brother Hadrami who calimed that there was ONLY ONE GOD MAN that was available for the Prophet (pbuh) to marry his first daughter.

Then the Prophet (pbuh) saw this only good man again to give him a second daughter.

According to brother Hadrami there were no other good men available or there were others available but Usman was better and more worthy than the others.

That was to refresh your memory my dear brother Imam Ali. Now stop denying by saying "who used marriage to claim superiority".

Brother Hadrami's statement is there that Usman was the ONLY GOOD MAN. In other words the Prophet (pbuh) couldn't find anyone else. So where does this put the Shaikhain???
Title: Re: Qualities of Uthman (RA)
Post by: Hadrami on March 26, 2015, 11:11:41 AM
According to brother Hadrami there were no other good men available or there were others available but Usman was better and more worthy than the others.

Brother Hadrami's statement is there that Usman was the ONLY GOOD MAN. In other words the Prophet (pbuh) couldn't find anyone else. So where does this put the Shaikhain???

Please pinpoint where I wrote that. I know you're a rafidi & lying is 9/10 of your deen, but let's cut the lying habit in this forum will you?
Title: Re: Qualities of Uthman (RA)
Post by: Hadrami on March 26, 2015, 11:27:29 AM
Oh my dear beloved brothers, may the Lord forgive you for you don't know what you are saying.

Since when did I say that this peron was good or that person was bad??? When did I say that this person was a true believer and he became a murtad???

You are as thick as a shia can be Ameen. It is a belief of shia that Uthman RA & Umar RA were bad bad people even before Rasulullah shallallahu alaihi wasallam passed away. They were condemned so many times by shia scholars.

Especially Umar RA, he was so bad that shia made up story about him abusing Fatimah RA and that this bad person usurped Ali RA and after all those evil things which shia said he did, unfortunately shia also narrated Ali RA married off his daughter to him. Now, what are you going to believe?

Believe your lying scholars who shot themselves in their foot so many times or the TRUE FACT. Since you talk about FACT this FACT that. Why can't you yourself face that FACT?
Title: Re: Qualities of Uthman (RA)
Post by: Ameen on March 26, 2015, 12:28:55 PM
First of all when did I accuse you of what you have said??? Stop trying to derail the matter and stick to what you said.

Either admit and stand by it because it's there in black and white, or admit that you've got it wrong and take responsibility for it.

Why did the Prophet (pbuh) not marry his first daughter to one of the Shaikhain instead of Usman???

Or even his next daughter to one of the Shaikhain instead of Usman again???

This is going to be too painfull for you but you already said it.

"because Usman was the ONLY GOOD MAN AROUND". Your words and not mine.

Either stand by it, let it rest and move on. Or just admit that you shot yourself in the foot.

Shias say this and Shias say that, well you are just the same. But in fact far ahead when it comes to accusations.

Who said that the companions didn't have anything good in them or about them??? Who said they didn't get anything right and proper???
Title: Re: Qualities of Uthman (RA)
Post by: Ameen on March 26, 2015, 12:44:01 PM
The Shias don't believe in what you said but point out certain matters in history and with in your authentic books.

If those are made up stories then why have your top scholars in history recorded and metioned certain incidents and events in their books???

Use you sense brother, use your sense. Why on earth would Shias accuse Umar of injuring Fatimah, arresting Ali and interrogating him about the acceptance and baya of Abu Bakar and his Khilafath then further down the road marry his daughter to Umar??? Why on earth would Shias believe in both??? It should be either one or the other from you.

Now as far as Ali marrying his daughter to Umar is concerned, you mention and believe in this, so it lies on you to prove it by backing it up.

What was the exact age of Umar and Ali's daughter at the time of this marriage??? When and where did this marriage take place??? Who read the Nikah??? Lets just start of with this.

Start a new thread and start answering.
Title: Re: Qualities of Uthman (RA)
Post by: Hadrami on March 26, 2015, 03:19:41 PM
According to brother Hadrami there were no other good men available or there were others available but Usman was better and more worthy than the others.

Brother Hadrami's statement is there that Usman was the ONLY GOOD MAN. In other words the Prophet (pbuh) couldn't find anyone else. So where does this put the Shaikhain???

Please pinpoint where I wrote that. I know you're a rafidi & lying is 9/10 of your deen, but let's cut the lying habit in this forum will you?

Im still waiting liar liar pants on fire :D
Wheres that quote taqiyah freak?
Title: Re: Qualities of Uthman (RA)
Post by: Optimus Prime on March 26, 2015, 08:09:29 PM
Defeated??? LOL! Like you said, let the people be the judge of that. Yes, talk about the virtues and merits of Usman or any other companion and just stick to that. But if you do go in to superiority again then make sure you get your facts right next time.

Carry on!

Let me explain why and how you've been defeated, Ameen.

I never argued against your point, but I agreed with you the entire time. It was you who was insisting that I claimed that marriage to two daughters of a Prophet surpasses everyone else walking the face of the Earth. You mis-understood when reading a certain response to a post of brother Hadrami. I even confessed it was not clear on my part, and clarified my position that his marriage alone to two daughters does not elevate his status higher than Ali (RA) or anyone else. I also said if Hadrami thinks otherwise then that's his opinion, and you need to take it up with him. This point has been repeated countless times. Shall, I try explaining this in Urdu? Maybe then it'll sink in if you're genuinely lost.

So, why're you not letting the matter rest when referencing that I claimed no one made such a statement? I was speaking for myself much of the time not everyone else who've contributed to the thread.

The main purpose of this thread has served it's purpose, and shall continue in the coming weeks.

Now, front up to brother Hadrami's questions regarding Umar's (RA) marriage to Umm Khumtum bint Ali (RA) if you dare. ;)
Title: Re: Qualities of Uthman (RA)
Post by: Ameen on March 26, 2015, 09:33:53 PM
Ameen, then I wonder why we have 5 pages for this simple topic.

It seems to me that you're having difficulty understanding. Now pay attention,

Usman wasn't married to one of the Prophet's (pbuh) daughters, but in fact to two of them. This is a virtue towards privilege and an honour, not a merit towards superiority and highness.

Usman was a good man, in fact a very good man. This is why the Prophet (pbuh) married not one but two of his daughters to him. This is not a seal of approval to remain good for ever.

Usman was of a companion of the Prophet (pbuh) and a good man. This is not proof that he became a great Khalifa and got absolutely everything right and in order.

You are using his companionship, his relation to the Prophet (pbuh) as son in law and having the privilege to be married to two of the Prophte's (pbuh) daughters, as some kind of evidence to prove that he remained good and carried on to become a great Khalif, with no set backs and without getting anything wrong and out of control.

Gentlemen the man was a companion and son in law to the Prophet (pbuh), but this doesn't make him a saint or he didn't become a saint because of this privilege. Brothers, get use to reality and facts. You've been taught things which are not true, right from the very start and it's obvious you've become adapted to them.
Title: Re: Qualities of Uthman (RA)
Post by: Ameen on March 26, 2015, 09:49:45 PM
Update on the narrations where the Prophet (SAW) has been reported to have married more daughters to Uthman (RA) are weak. Here is the response:

Question

What is the source and grading of the narration where Nabi (sallallahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) is reported to have said if he had anymore daughters he would’ve given them all to Sayyiduna ‘Uthman (radiyallahu ‘anhu)


Answer

There are various different versions of this narration, Among them are the following:

1) Rasulullah (sallallahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) said:

Marry ‘Uthman, If I had a third daughter I would have married him (to
her) and I have only married him to my daughters through divine revelation (wahy).

(Al Mu’jamul Kabir, Hadith: 490, -vol. 11-)



2) Sayyiduna ‘Uthman (radiyallahu ‘anhu) said to Sayyiduna ‘Abdullah Ibn ‘Abbas (radiyallahu ‘anhuma) that Rasulullah (sallallahu ‘alayhi wa
sallam) said to me when he got me married to his second daughter, “If I had ten (daughters), I would have married them to you one at a time, for I am pleased with you”.

(Al Mu’jamul Awsat, Hadith: 6112)



3) Sayyiduna Abu Hurayrah (radiyallahu ‘anhu) reports that Nabi (sallallahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) said:

…”If I had ten daughters, I would have married them to ‘Uthman and I only got him married to my daughters through divine revelation (wahy)”

(Al Mu’jamul Kabir, Hadith: 1063 -vol. 15-)



4) Nabi (sallallahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) said:

If I had forty daughters, I would have married them one after the other to ‘Uthman.

(Tarikh Ibn ‘Asakir, vol. 39 pg. 43)



The above narrations although weak, support each other sufficiently.

(Refer: Majma’uz Zawaid, vol. 5 pg. 264 and Al Bidayah Wan Nihayah of Hafiz Ibn Kathir, vol. 7 pg. 377)



And Allah Ta’ala knows best



Answered by: Moulana Suhail Motala



Approved by: Moulana Muhammad Abasoomar


Well there you go! This is absolute and clear evidence that Usman was, is and will remain greater than the Shaikhain. This openly tells you who was the better man and who was number one in the Prophet's (pbuh) eyes. Was it Abu Bakar??? No. Was it Umar??? No. It can't be Ali because according to you he was number four. So it was most definitely Usman.

Why didn't the Prophet (pbuh) consider Abu Bakar and or Umar worthy for his daughters??? You mentioned that the marriage of Usman to the Prophet's (pbuh) daughters was according to divine revelation then, this order is from Allah and those marriages took place because of Allah's will. Yes??? If yes then you have to accept that Usman was far better and greater than the Shaikhain.

This didn't settle well with the Shaikhain. They were unhappy and disappointed over this. Unhappiness and disappointment causes resentment and this brings jealousy and hatred to a certain degree. The Shaikhain were jealous of Usman and did hold a grudge against him, over this.
Title: Re: Qualities of Uthman (RA)
Post by: Ameen on March 26, 2015, 09:55:41 PM
According to brother Hadrami there were no other good men available or there were others available but Usman was better and more worthy than the others.

Brother Hadrami's statement is there that Usman was the ONLY GOOD MAN. In other words the Prophet (pbuh) couldn't find anyone else. So where does this put the Shaikhain???

Please pinpoint where I wrote that. I know you're a rafidi & lying is 9/10 of your deen, but let's cut the lying habit in this forum will you?

Im still waiting liar liar pants on fire :D
Wheres that quote taqiyah freak?

You sound like someone who's just been knocked out cold. Come on, you can do better than that. You're a grown man. This doesn't suit you.
Title: Re: Qualities of Uthman (RA)
Post by: Hani on March 26, 2015, 10:10:27 PM
I want to be honest and say this discussion is getting really stupid, I can't figure out what is being discussed anymore, what's the exact topic? Does it need so many pages to prove that the Prophet (saw) thought highly of `Uthman?
Title: Re: Qualities of Uthman (RA)
Post by: Optimus Prime on March 26, 2015, 10:13:00 PM
Ameen, then I wonder why we have 5 pages for this simple topic.

It seems to me that you're having difficulty understanding. Now pay attention,

Usman wasn't married to one of the Prophet's (pbuh) daughters, but in fact to two of them. This is a virtue towards privilege and an honour, not a merit towards superiority and highness.

Usman was a good man, in fact a very good man. This is why the Prophet (pbuh) married not one but two of his daughters to him. This is not a seal of approval to remain good for ever.

Usman was of a companion of the Prophet (pbuh) and a good man. This is not proof that he became a great Khalifa and got absolutely everything right and in order.

You are using his companionship, his relation to the Prophet (pbuh) as son in law and having the privilege to be married to two of the Prophte's (pbuh) daughters, as some kind of evidence to prove that he remained good and carried on to become a great Khalif, with no set backs and without getting anything wrong and out of control.

Gentlemen the man was a companion and son in law to the Prophet (pbuh), but this doesn't make him a saint or he didn't become a saint because of this privilege. Brothers, get use to reality and facts. You've been taught things which are not true, right from the very start and it's obvious you've become adapted to them.

The authentic narrations by the Prophet (SAW) confirm otherwise and his words carry more weight than yours - end of. :)
Title: Re: Qualities of Uthman (RA)
Post by: Optimus Prime on March 26, 2015, 10:13:13 PM
Update on the narrations where the Prophet (SAW) has been reported to have married more daughters to Uthman (RA) are weak. Here is the response:

Question

What is the source and grading of the narration where Nabi (sallallahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) is reported to have said if he had anymore daughters he would’ve given them all to Sayyiduna ‘Uthman (radiyallahu ‘anhu)


Answer

There are various different versions of this narration, Among them are the following:

1) Rasulullah (sallallahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) said:

Marry ‘Uthman, If I had a third daughter I would have married him (to
her) and I have only married him to my daughters through divine revelation (wahy).

(Al Mu’jamul Kabir, Hadith: 490, -vol. 11-)



2) Sayyiduna ‘Uthman (radiyallahu ‘anhu) said to Sayyiduna ‘Abdullah Ibn ‘Abbas (radiyallahu ‘anhuma) that Rasulullah (sallallahu ‘alayhi wa
sallam) said to me when he got me married to his second daughter, “If I had ten (daughters), I would have married them to you one at a time, for I am pleased with you”.

(Al Mu’jamul Awsat, Hadith: 6112)



3) Sayyiduna Abu Hurayrah (radiyallahu ‘anhu) reports that Nabi (sallallahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) said:

…”If I had ten daughters, I would have married them to ‘Uthman and I only got him married to my daughters through divine revelation (wahy)”

(Al Mu’jamul Kabir, Hadith: 1063 -vol. 15-)



4) Nabi (sallallahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) said:

If I had forty daughters, I would have married them one after the other to ‘Uthman.

(Tarikh Ibn ‘Asakir, vol. 39 pg. 43)



The above narrations although weak, support each other sufficiently.

(Refer: Majma’uz Zawaid, vol. 5 pg. 264 and Al Bidayah Wan Nihayah of Hafiz Ibn Kathir, vol. 7 pg. 377)



And Allah Ta’ala knows best



Answered by: Moulana Suhail Motala



Approved by: Moulana Muhammad Abasoomar


Well there you go! This is absolute and clear evidence that Usman was, is and will remain greater than the Shaikhain. This openly tells you who was the better man and who was number one in the Prophet's (pbuh) eyes. Was it Abu Bakar??? No. Was it Umar??? No. It can't be Ali because according to you he was number four. So it was most definitely Usman.

Why didn't the Prophet (pbuh) consider Abu Bakar and or Umar worthy for his daughters??? You mentioned that the marriage of Usman to the Prophet's (pbuh) daughters was according to divine revelation then, this order is from Allah and those marriages took place because of Allah's will. Yes??? If yes then you have to accept that Usman was far better and greater than the Shaikhain.

This didn't settle well with the Shaikhain. They were unhappy and disappointed over this. Unhappiness and disappointment causes resentment and this brings jealousy and hatred to a certain degree. The Shaikhain were jealous of Usman and did hold a grudge against him, over this.

Ameen, you've seriously lost the plot. The scholar is not even referring to superiority, but is grading the narrations. That's it.

I'm going to ask politely you refrain from posting this thread because you're going on about the same thing that's been addressed again, again and again.

Enough is enough.

In summary, Ali (RA) or any other companion never had the privilege of marrying two daughters of a Prophet = fact. Just like no other companion had the privilege of being born in the Kab'bah, but that on it's own does not make him superior to anyone else - naw' what I mean?

Superiority of one over the other is down to all other forms of virtues that the Prophet (SAW) confirmed and praised.
Title: Re: Qualities of Uthman (RA)
Post by: Optimus Prime on March 26, 2015, 10:17:45 PM
I want to be honest and say this discussion is getting really stupid, I can't figure out what is being discussed anymore, what's the exact topic? Does it need so many pages to prove that the Prophet (saw) thought highly of `Uthman?

Hani, you're right. This thread is getting a little tedious, but no thanks to Ameen's endless drivel of the same thing.

From now, I'll be posting narrations to confirm Uthman's (RA) virtues.

Insh'Allah.
Title: Re: Qualities of Uthman (RA)
Post by: Ameen on March 26, 2015, 11:37:39 PM
Update on the narrations where the Prophet (SAW) has been reported to have married more daughters to Uthman (RA) are weak. Here is the response:

Question

What is the source and grading of the narration where Nabi (sallallahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) is reported to have said if he had anymore daughters he would’ve given them all to Sayyiduna ‘Uthman (radiyallahu ‘anhu)


Answer

There are various different versions of this narration, Among them are the following:

1) Rasulullah (sallallahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) said:

Marry ‘Uthman, If I had a third daughter I would have married him (to
her) and I have only married him to my daughters through divine revelation (wahy).

(Al Mu’jamul Kabir, Hadith: 490, -vol. 11-)



2) Sayyiduna ‘Uthman (radiyallahu ‘anhu) said to Sayyiduna ‘Abdullah Ibn ‘Abbas (radiyallahu ‘anhuma) that Rasulullah (sallallahu ‘alayhi wa
sallam) said to me when he got me married to his second daughter, “If I had ten (daughters), I would have married them to you one at a time, for I am pleased with you”.

(Al Mu’jamul Awsat, Hadith: 6112)



3) Sayyiduna Abu Hurayrah (radiyallahu ‘anhu) reports that Nabi (sallallahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) said:

…”If I had ten daughters, I would have married them to ‘Uthman and I only got him married to my daughters through divine revelation (wahy)”

(Al Mu’jamul Kabir, Hadith: 1063 -vol. 15-)



4) Nabi (sallallahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) said:

If I had forty daughters, I would have married them one after the other to ‘Uthman.

(Tarikh Ibn ‘Asakir, vol. 39 pg. 43)



The above narrations although weak, support each other sufficiently.

(Refer: Majma’uz Zawaid, vol. 5 pg. 264 and Al Bidayah Wan Nihayah of Hafiz Ibn Kathir, vol. 7 pg. 377)



And Allah Ta’ala knows best



Answered by: Moulana Suhail Motala



Approved by: Moulana Muhammad Abasoomar


Well there you go! This is absolute and clear evidence that Usman was, is and will remain greater than the Shaikhain. This openly tells you who was the better man and who was number one in the Prophet's (pbuh) eyes. Was it Abu Bakar??? No. Was it Umar??? No. It can't be Ali because according to you he was number four. So it was most definitely Usman.

Why didn't the Prophet (pbuh) consider Abu Bakar and or Umar worthy for his daughters??? You mentioned that the marriage of Usman to the Prophet's (pbuh) daughters was according to divine revelation then, this order is from Allah and those marriages took place because of Allah's will. Yes??? If yes then you have to accept that Usman was far better and greater than the Shaikhain.

This didn't settle well with the Shaikhain. They were unhappy and disappointed over this. Unhappiness and disappointment causes resentment and this brings jealousy and hatred to a certain degree. The Shaikhain were jealous of Usman and did hold a grudge against him, over this.

Ameen, you've seriously lost the plot. The scholar is not even referring to superiority, but is grading the narrations. That's it.

I'm going to ask politely you refrain from posting this thread because you're going on about the same thing that's been addressed again, again and again.

Enough is enough.

In summary, Ali (RA) or any other companion never had the privilege of marrying two daughters of a Prophet = fact. Just like no other companion had the privilege of being born in the Kab'bah, but that on it's own does not make him superior to anyone else - naw' what I mean?

Superiority of one over the other is down to all other forms of virtues that the Prophet (SAW) confirmed and praised.

This is exactly what I've been trying to tell you. Finally we have come to a conclusion. You don't need to ask me, just don't start me again. As far as I am concerned, subject closed. End off!
Title: Re: Qualities of Uthman (RA)
Post by: Ameen on March 26, 2015, 11:38:43 PM
I want to be honest and say this discussion is getting really stupid, I can't figure out what is being discussed anymore, what's the exact topic? Does it need so many pages to prove that the Prophet (saw) thought highly of `Uthman?

Absolutely. No more to be said from me!
Title: Re: Qualities of Uthman (RA)
Post by: Hadrami on March 26, 2015, 11:43:35 PM
just close the thread Hani. Its too long