Saqifa - ATT: Iceman

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@iceman,

Quick one. Just want to ask you what are the factors that you think motivate both Abu Bakr and Umar to be the caliphs?

I will see what he answers, but according to my research, Abu Baker and Umar were two sorcerers and were chosen to leaders by the dark forces, not normal leaders, but leaders that think they are avatars and think they are care takers of humanity, and they did it to harm Islam, not out of greed for power or anything, but used power a means to slowly but surely poison Islam.  They had a plan during Prophet lifetime to make a mass propaganda that does away with a very well known miracle of the Prophet (that he had a supernatural good scent), and the only way to seal the deal with that propaganda would be to finally kill him.  They wanted him dead and that to mass propagate that all the miracles claimed were lies but when Suratal Tahreem was revealed, they saw that their plans were misguided and that it was turning against them. Also Aisha and Hafsa turned to repentance that time and took side of the Nabi while these two were essential in the original plan.

These two believed in the Shayateen and Jinn, and didn't believe in Mohammad (pbuh&hf). They instigated their daughters to turn against the Prophet by which God revealed a revelation, in which showed God and his Messenger aware of the plans of they hypocrites but at the same, trying to save these two woman, to not be like the wives of Nuh and Lut, and to be obey the Prophet and with respect to the Pharoah, be like Asiya and ask God to save them from the ones commanding to them to plan against the Nabi.

Read Suratal Tahreem, indeed it showed a plot during his lifetime let alone after.

[zaid_ibn_ali]

@iceman,

Quick one. Just want to ask you what are the factors that you think motivate both Abu Bakr and Umar to be the caliphs?

I will see what he answers, but according to my research, Abu Baker and Umar were two sorcerers and were chosen to leaders by the dark forces, not normal leaders, but leaders that think they are avatars and think they are care takers of humanity, and they did it to harm Islam, not out of greed for power or anything, but used power a means to slowly but surely poison Islam.  They had a plan during Prophet lifetime to make a mass propaganda that does away with a very well known miracle of the Prophet (that he had a supernatural good scent), and the only way to seal the deal with that propaganda would be to finally kill him.  They wanted him dead and that to mass propagate that all the miracles claimed were lies but when Suratal Tahreem was revealed, they saw that their plans were misguided and that it was turning against them. Also Aisha and Hafsa turned to repentance that time and took side of the Nabi while these two were essential in the original plan.

These two believed in the Shayateen and Jinn, and didn't believe in Mohammad (pbuh&hf). They instigated their daughters to turn against the Prophet by which God revealed a revelation, in which showed God and his Messenger aware of the plans of they hypocrites but at the same, trying to save these two woman, to not be like the wives of Nuh and Lut, and to be obey the Prophet and with respect to the Pharoah, be like Asiya and ask God to save them from the ones commanding to them to plan against the Nabi.

Read Suratal Tahreem, indeed it showed a plot during his lifetime let alone after.

Right leaders of darkness that lead the ummah to its greatest period. Yeh okay.

Here's the thing. Ali & rest of ahle bayt weren't perfect.
Its easy to pick out the faults of any human being. But ahlus sunnah love ahle bayt & are not in the business of exposing their faults.

Heck, even many members of ahle bayt/Ali's offspring did not get on with eachother.

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Suratal Tahreem shows the darkest of all plots.

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Abu Baker period:

1. Burned hadith books and forbid the writting of ahadith and we hear lame excuses to this.
2. Killed people for believing in a false Prophet and go against the whole argument of freedom of religion in Quran, by which killing people for leaving Islam would have to be justified.
3. Killed people for not giving him zakat.

What was so great about this?

[Mythbuster1]

@iceman,

Quick one. Just want to ask you what are the factors that you think motivate both Abu Bakr and Umar to be the caliphs?

I will see what he answers, but according to my research, Abu Baker and Umar were two sorcerers and were chosen to leaders by the dark forces, not normal leaders, but leaders that think they are avatars and think they are care takers of humanity, and they did it to harm Islam, not out of greed for power or anything, but used power a means to slowly but surely poison Islam.  They had a plan during Prophet lifetime to make a mass propaganda that does away with a very well known miracle of the Prophet (that he had a supernatural good scent), and the only way to seal the deal with that propaganda would be to finally kill him.  They wanted him dead and that to mass propagate that all the miracles claimed were lies but when Suratal Tahreem was revealed, they saw that their plans were misguided and that it was turning against them. Also Aisha and Hafsa turned to repentance that time and took side of the Nabi while these two were essential in the original plan.

These two believed in the Shayateen and Jinn, and didn't believe in Mohammad (pbuh&hf). They instigated their daughters to turn against the Prophet by which God revealed a revelation, in which showed God and his Messenger aware of the plans of they hypocrites but at the same, trying to save these two woman, to not be like the wives of Nuh and Lut, and to be obey the Prophet and with respect to the Pharoah, be like Asiya and ask God to save them from the ones commanding to them to plan against the Nabi.

Read Suratal Tahreem, indeed it showed a plot during his lifetime let alone after.

WHAT A  RIGHTLOAD OF CODSWALLOP
YOU EVIL MAN

Please mods if this guy hasn't any proof to back his lies of our Sahaba ra then please could you delete such posts.........whether he is mental or not.

I would rather see arguments with proof and not just hearsay and lies like this guy has been doing for ages and getting away with it.

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You wouldn't accept proof of this no matter how clear the case is made.

We see you don't accept the Leadership and Authority of Ahlulbayt (as) in the first place.

And among the proofs:

http://www.duas.org/alaviya/dua-120.htm

[zaid_ibn_ali]

Abu Baker period:

1. Burned hadith books and forbid the writting of ahadith and we hear lame excuses to this.
2. Killed people for believing in a false Prophet and go against the whole argument of freedom of religion in Quran, by which killing people for leaving Islam would have to be justified.
3. Killed people for not giving him zakat.

What was so great about this?

1) hadiths should never have been written down. Its only because the later on the ummah had no choice due to the amount of liars.

Abu Bakr couldn't stop every recording of a hadith being written down even if he wanted.

So that argument is weak.

2) those who believed in the false prophet fought the muslims hence why they were dealt with

3) these people rebelled against the state. Again they were dealt with accordingly.


Now how about we go through the great achievements of Abu Bakr & Umar's leadership?

Here one that alone will shine bright way over your cult:


The islamic lands spread to such size & strength, with all prominent sahaba & figures UNITED under their leadership INCLUDING ALI & HIS SONS.

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No need to write hadith books is laughable.  There was plenty of DIRE NEED.

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And if there was no need, doesn't mean you forbid it.

[zaid_ibn_ali]

No need to write hadith books is laughable.  There was plenty of DIRE NEED.

Why was there a need to write hadith if you had a living infallible Imam with another 11 to succeed him?

[Link]

Abu Baker period:

1. Burned hadith books and forbid the writting of ahadith and we hear lame excuses to this.
2. Killed people for believing in a false Prophet and go against the whole argument of freedom of religion in Quran, by which killing people for leaving Islam would have to be justified.
3. Killed people for not giving him zakat.

What was so great about this?

1) hadiths should never have been written down. Its only because the later on the ummah had no choice due to the amount of liars.

Abu Bakr couldn't stop every recording of a hadith being written down even if he wanted.

So that argument is weak.

2) those who believed in the false prophet fought the muslims hence why they were dealt with

3) these people rebelled against the state. Again they were dealt with accordingly.


Now how about we go through the great achievements of Abu Bakr & Umar's leadership?

Here one that alone will shine bright way over your cult:


The islamic lands spread to such size & strength, with all prominent sahaba & figures UNITED under their leadership INCLUDING ALI & HIS SONS.

Ok, suppose you justify all the history recorded by YOUR books.

According to the following Du'a: http://www.duas.org/alaviya/dua-120.htm

"have killed their supporters"

So the supporters of Ali according to this Du'a maybe those who refused Zakat? Maybe really it was nothing to do with zakat, but zakat was just an outward reality of their rebellion and holding on to supporting Ali?

You keep claiming unity except:

1. Those who refused zakat.

By what reasons did they have to refuse zakat? What reason did they have to rebel?

Was it just interpretation of whether zakat goes to government or not, and if so, was that worth killing them? Or was it they believed Zakat was no longer a pillar because Nabi was not in power, but that hardly makes sense....

Don't you see something fishy when hadith books are burned and they are forbidden to be recorded....don't you find all this talk of unity just that talk, when perhaps many people were killed ON EXCUSE of not paying zakat?

What better way to cover up some people supported Ali and were killed but to make it soley about zakat?

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No need to write hadith books is laughable.  There was plenty of DIRE NEED.

Why was there a need to write hadith if you had a living infallible Imam with another 11 to succeed him?

There is plenty of reasons and not one reason not to be not recording hadith given that case.  The Imams aren't just hear to repeat the Sunnah, they were here to implement it, perfect the light of leadership of God through his chosen ones, perfect the Quranic leadership which is intertwined with them.

And what they emphasize on, during their time, their words given their situation, all that is important and vital.

[zaid_ibn_ali]

Abu Baker period:

1. Burned hadith books and forbid the writting of ahadith and we hear lame excuses to this.
2. Killed people for believing in a false Prophet and go against the whole argument of freedom of religion in Quran, by which killing people for leaving Islam would have to be justified.
3. Killed people for not giving him zakat.

What was so great about this?

1) hadiths should never have been written down. Its only because the later on the ummah had no choice due to the amount of liars.

Abu Bakr couldn't stop every recording of a hadith being written down even if he wanted.

So that argument is weak.

2) those who believed in the false prophet fought the muslims hence why they were dealt with

3) these people rebelled against the state. Again they were dealt with accordingly.


Now how about we go through the great achievements of Abu Bakr & Umar's leadership?

Here one that alone will shine bright way over your cult:


The islamic lands spread to such size & strength, with all prominent sahaba & figures UNITED under their leadership INCLUDING ALI & HIS SONS.

Ok, suppose you justify all the history recorded by YOUR books.

According to the following Du'a: http://www.duas.org/alaviya/dua-120.htm

"have killed their supporters"

So the supporters of Ali according to this Du'a maybe those who refused Zakat? Maybe really it was nothing to do with zakat, but zakat was just an outward reality of their rebellion and holding on to supporting Ali?

You keep claiming unity except:

1. Those who refused zakat.

By what reasons did they have to refuse zakat? What reason did they have to rebel?

Was it just interpretation of whether zakat goes to government or not, and if so, was that worth killing them? Or was it they believed Zakat was no longer a pillar because Nabi was not in power, but that hardly makes sense....

Don't you see something fishy when hadith books are burned and they are forbidden to be recorded....don't you find all this talk of unity just that talk, when perhaps many people were killed ON EXCUSE of not paying zakat?

What better way to cover up some people supported Ali and were killed but to make it soley about zakat?

Why do you think everything that has ever occurred on this planet is linked to Ali?
In fact don't answer that on second thoughts...

[Mythbuster1]

You wouldn't accept proof of this no matter how clear the case is made.

We see you don't accept the Leadership and Authority of Ahlulbayt (as) in the first place.

And among the proofs:

http://www.duas.org/alaviya/dua-120.htm

You haven't got proof you've got a load of old unsubstantiated fairytale garbage stories backed up by your dead brain which feeds off the whisperings of the devil.

The leadership the authority is gone long gone let's talk here and now, we will not be asked about authority or leadership once your eating dust 6 feet under, Ali ra nor any ahlebaith ra can help you no imams nothing, it's boring its old and your brains getting worse thinking of what could've been should've been would've been.......snap out of it.

You call that proof???
You have no chains, reaffirming what I say about you lying, you have so much hate inside you that the devils love playing with your emotions hence your all over the place like a ship stuck in heavy seas without a sale or captain just sailing hitting every rock it comes across ready to sink.......beaware your not far from sinking either if you don't provide evidence, a sale to steer your ship.

😜

[zaid_ibn_ali]

No need to write hadith books is laughable.  There was plenty of DIRE NEED.

Why was there a need to write hadith if you had a living infallible Imam with another 11 to succeed him?

There is plenty of reasons and not one reason not to be not recording hadith given that case.  The Imams aren't just hear to repeat the Sunnah, they were here to implement it, perfect the light of leadership of God through his chosen ones, perfect the Quranic leadership which is intertwined with them.

And what they emphasize on, during their time, their words given their situation, all that is important and vital.

Okay so I have a living infallible leader yet I need to record hadith even though there will be another living infallible guide after him & so on & so on...

Yeh you're making a lot of sense.

Sorcerers, dark people, ghosts, bumps through the night...lay off the hard stuff mate!

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The name of God is by which people perish or attain salvation.

Ali held that station.  Dark forces have been trying to hide people from that station always, they always try to put out God's light by slogans and words.

The truth is with Ali and Ali is with truth, and hence, everything has become related to him. Prophets were rejected because dark forces didn't want to see the just leadership of the chosen ones occur.

They didn't want the world to be prepared for Mohammad and the Mastership and Leadership he would preach, and which Quran would call to.

According to Quran, dark forces succeeded over all in misguiding humanity and doing away with the truth.

You guys want to believe everything turned rosey after Prophet's death but everything Quran exposes, shows, the opposite.

It shows it's impossible for it to have been rosy history unless Satan went to sleep or something or started to love humanity or something.  The only way it would of made it to justice and been on course to guiding humanity would be through the Navigators and Captains of the covenant of God, mainly the Twelve Successors.

[zaid_ibn_ali]

The name of God is by which people perish or attain salvation.

Ali held that station.  Dark forces have been trying to hide people from that station always, they always try to put out God's light by slogans and words.

The truth is with Ali and Ali is with truth, and hence, everything has become related to him. Prophets were rejected because dark forces didn't want to see the just leadership of the chosen ones occur.

They didn't want the world to be prepared for Mohammad and the Mastership and Leadership he would preach, and which Quran would call to.

According to Quran, dark forces succeeded over all in misguiding humanity and doing away with the truth.

You guys want to believe everything turned rosey after Prophet's death but everything Quran exposes, shows, the opposite.

It shows it's impossible for it to have been rosy history unless Satan went to sleep or something or started to love humanity or something.  The only way it would of made it to justice and been on course to guiding humanity would be through the Navigators and Captains of the covenant of God, mainly the Twelve Successors.

No it wasn't all rosey.

It was as close to rosey as you can get though during the rule of the first two caliphs.

Not perfect but the best leaders this ummah has ever had since the prophet (saw).

You've been watching too many underworld vampire movies...

[Mythbuster1]

Your the one who shows the attributes of the shaytaan........HATE!
You represent that hate by manifesting and using it on people you have no proof or evidence that they worked against Islam or Prophet saw, hence reaffirming my belief that you have devils whispering in your ear daily nightly without you being aware.

Your proof to me was a dua written nearly a millennia later and MAGICALLY it is a proof against whom you accuse?? Are you for real? People in here think your on drugs, I don't, I genuinely believe some devils knocking your nugget around in that empty skull of yours making you feel like your on a trip......sailing.

[iceman]

Your the one who shows the attributes of the shaytaan........HATE!
You represent that hate by manifesting and using it on people you have no proof or evidence that they worked against Islam or Prophet saw, hence reaffirming my belief that you have devils whispering in your ear daily nightly without you being aware.

Your proof to me was a dua written nearly a millennia later and MAGICALLY it is a proof against whom you accuse?? Are you for real? People in here think your on drugs, I don't, I genuinely believe some devils knocking your nugget around in that empty skull of yours making you feel like your on a trip......sailing.

LOL! And this is the camp that Kian has joined. LOL!

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how do you prove that without circular reasoning?

We are right because we follow Abu Baker and Umar as opposed to the Shiites who reject them.
How do you know they are good? Because our hadiths say so, our history says, our scholars say so....

etc. etc...

I showed a Du'a attributed to Ali that shows alternative history view. How do you know which one is correct?

It's time to refer things back to Quran primarily, and use Sunnah to unlock it's bright signs.

No more conjecture, forget your books for one second, forget the conjecture of Rijaal which you call ilmel rijaal for one second....

Is Quran showing something that cannot be proven? Or is showing a sacred history that is the only thing that could have possibly happened given what we know about God and his signs, and what we know about how the world is all over the place?

Is it showing history from the viewpoint of things that are possible to happen but possible to not happen, or it showing given what we know of the world today,   this is surely what must have happened.

When God tells us of the sacred history of his Messengers, he is emphasizing on essential truths, revealing the structure of the world from it's evil side as well as it's bright side.

He reveals his plan and why his plan has not occurred and been fulfilled, but that he plans and plans again and again,  always in benefit of humanity.

Hardly anyone moves an ounce to help him because they become fatalists. They turn away from the proof offered in Quran because it goes against their caprice and requires humility in form of sincere grief and repentance.

And the Navigators to the just city, the doors to ascension, the leaders who guide by his command, and the Captains are vitally important.

Their number in each covenant after the founder is also important.   All this has been clearly emphasized and explained, and with the sacred history, the truth has been proven and admonishment has occurred to the believers.