TwelverShia.net Forum
Sunni Shia Discussion Forum => Sahabah-AhlulBayt => Topic started by: Qamar Farooq on November 03, 2017, 10:25:56 PM
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The idiot Shia blade runner is back with more of his nonsense. Let the refutations commences!!!
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The idiot Shia blade runner is back with more of his nonsense. Let the refutations commences!!!
ARE THE SHIA LIKE THE KHAWARIJ? The answer is NO. Why? because Shias are not terrorists or carry out terrorist activities in the name of Islam to achieve their desired goals or results. Nor are the Shia cold blooded killers. You should know that. Sipa e Sahaba, Lashkar e Janghvi, ISIL or ISIS, Taliban, Al Qaidah etc are the Khawarij of these days and this generation. Man you are so far behind. You have so much to learn.
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- shia split from the majority so did khawarij
- shia hero killed a sahabi caliph so did khawarij hero
- shia love to make takfir of others so did khawarij
- shia was the first "islamic" group using method such as assasins, kidnap ransom, suicide bombing and khawarij copied it (the modern ones)
- shia hero was the first practitioner of suicide attack in the masjid (2nd caliph), khawarij copied it (4th caliph)
I could go on forever. In short, both are minority deviant sects which was built on hating & terrorising the majority of muslim.
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- shia split from the majority so did khawarij
- shia hero killed a sahabi caliph so did khawarij hero
- shia love to make takfir of others so did khawarij
- shia was the first "islamic" group using method such as assasins, kidnap ransom, suicide bombing and khawarij copied it (the modern ones)
- shia hero was the first practitioner of suicide attack in the masjid (2nd caliph), khawarij copied it (4th caliph)
I could go on forever. In short, both are minority deviant sects which was built on hating & terrorising the majority of muslim.
Of course you can go on for ever with such NONSENSE!
Al Qaidah are not Shia, Taliban are not Shia, Sipa e Sahaba are not Shia, ISIS are not Shia, Islamic Jihad are not Shia, Lashkar e Janghvi are not Shia, Hamas are not Shia, Lashkar e Tayiba ate not Shia, Fatah are not Shia and I will post you several more who aren't Shia.
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Al Nusra are not Shia, Al Shabaab are not Shia, Boko Haram are not Shia and would you like more?
Read history, after the death of Muhammad (s) and onwards who used means of violence and threatening behaviour to either have their demands met or to oppose the decision on others? It most certainly wasn't Ali or his Shia.
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Correction,
Or to impose the decision made on others.
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Al Qaidah are not Shia, Taliban are not Shia, Sipa e Sahaba are not Shia, ISIS are not Shia, Islamic Jihad are not Shia, Lashkar e Janghvi are not Shia, Hamas are not Shia, Lashkar e Tayiba ate not Shia, Fatah are not Shia and I will post you several more who aren't Shia.
The groups you have named are just as Islamic as they are Sunni. In other words, they are neither. However, your comment gives a glimpse of how you (and perhaps other Shias) think. It is no wonder that my Shia neighbor, who was a US lapdog, an interpreter translating for the US troops in Iraq, would post articles regarding these despicable groups to win favor in the sight of his American masters. To you they can be non-Muslim or they can be non-Shia. Whichever route yields the most profit is the route you take.
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Al Qaidah are not Shia, Taliban are not Shia, Sipa e Sahaba are not Shia, ISIS are not Shia, Islamic Jihad are not Shia, Lashkar e Janghvi are not Shia, Hamas are not Shia, Lashkar e Tayiba ate not Shia, Fatah are not Shia and I will post you several more who aren't Shia.
The groups you have named are just as Islamic as they are Sunni. In other words, they are neither. However, your comment gives a glimpse of how you (and perhaps other Shias) think. It is no wonder that my Shia neighbor, who was a US lapdog, an interpreter translating for the US troops in Iraq, would post articles regarding these despicable groups to win favor in the sight of his American masters. To you they can be non-Muslim or they can be non-Shia. Whichever route yields the most profit is the route you take.
The groups are who they claim they are. But one thing is for sure that they are definitely not Shia. As far as US Lapdogs or puppets are concerned, Saudi Arabia and the gulf states are at the top of the league. You forgot to mention them. This Anti Shia Mentality is really getting the better of most of you. There is no profit since we are all Muslims. This is something that is hard for you and them to understand and digest.
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The groups are who they claim they are. But one thing is for sure that they are definitely not Shia. As far as US Lapdogs or puppets are concerned, Saudi Arabia and the gulf states are at the top of the league. You forgot to mention them. This Anti Shia Mentality is really getting the better of most of you. There is no profit since we are all Muslims. This is something that is hard for you and them to understand and digest.
Oh, now we are all Muslims? The leaders of Gulf states and family of Saud can go to hell. Precisely my point that you have proven. Shias love to call out the leaders of Gulf States or the Saudis but they are working in conjunction with the Americans in Iraq. Who provided the road map for a "successful" invasion of Afghanistan in 2001? Iran!
I did not even know they offer $250,000 a year (all taxes paid) for being an interpreter, or lapdog, until I met my Iraqi neighbor. He suggested I do the same in Afghanistan (since I can speak Dari and Pashto). My exact reply to him was that I would rather see my family die of starvation than to take up such a despicable job.
You call out Saudis but you are no better.
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The groups are who they claim they are. But one thing is for sure that they are definitely not Shia. As far as US Lapdogs or puppets are concerned, Saudi Arabia and the gulf states are at the top of the league. You forgot to mention them. This Anti Shia Mentality is really getting the better of most of you. There is no profit since we are all Muslims. This is something that is hard for you and them to understand and digest.
Oh, now we are all Muslims? The leaders of Gulf states and family of Saud can go to hell. Precisely my point that you have proven. Shias love to call out the leaders of Gulf States or the Saudis but they are working in conjunction with the Americans in Iraq. Who provided the road map for a "successful" invasion of Afghanistan in 2001? Iran!
I did not even know they offer $250,000 a year (all taxes paid) for being an interpreter, or lapdog, until I met my Iraqi neighbor. He suggested I do the same in Afghanistan (since I can speak Dari and Pashto). My exact reply to him was that I would rather see my family die of starvation than to take up such a despicable job.
You call out Saudis but you are no better.
We have never had a problem with Muslims. And you can take a look at yourself. I am not familiar with your neighbor. So as far as i am concerned, it is made up fairy tale. I am familiar with current affairs and politics. Saudis called out America and its allies to sort out their former friend Saddam. Remember when the war with Iran ended Saddam turned on Kuwait and kicked the living daylights out of them. The former buddies Saudi, Iraq and Kuwait turned on each other. I wonder what that was all about? What ever it was about do you know how much the Americans charged the Saudis to save them from Saddam?
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I am not familiar with your neighbor. So as far as i am concerned, it is made up fairy tale.
Yeah, God forbid a Shia work as an American lapdog. Never!
What ever it was about do you know how much the Americans charged the Saudis to save them from Saddam?
Maybe you have that information, the exact dollar amount, because the celebrations were felt in Iran as well where the after-party was held. The party went into the early hours of the morning as they continued to get rid of Hosni Mubarak and Gadhafi. However, we heard crickets in Iran followed by screams when the same was dished to Bashar Al-Assad. For the record, I stand by the people of Syria and with Bashar Al-Assad because I do not want another Iraq or another Libya. At a very early point during the "Arab Spring", it was clear to me that it was all a sham while Ayatollah Khamenei kept citing the revolution staged by Imam Khomeini to take credit for what was happening in the Middle East (insinuating that they learned from the example of Imam Khomeini). It was all good-and-dandy until it was time for Bashar Al-Assad to face the music; that is when you started dancing to a different beat.
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The groups are who they claim they are. But one thing is for sure that they are definitely not Shia. As far as US Lapdogs or puppets are concerned, Saudi Arabia and the gulf states are at the top of the league. You forgot to mention them. This Anti Shia Mentality is really getting the better of most of you. There is no profit since we are all Muslims. This is something that is hard for you and them to understand and digest.
Oh, now we are all Muslims? The leaders of Gulf states and family of Saud can go to hell. Precisely my point that you have proven. Shias love to call out the leaders of Gulf States or the Saudis but they are working in conjunction with the Americans in Iraq. Who provided the road map for a "successful" invasion of Afghanistan in 2001? Iran!
I did not even know they offer $250,000 a year (all taxes paid) for being an interpreter, or lapdog, until I met my Iraqi neighbor. He suggested I do the same in Afghanistan (since I can speak Dari and Pashto). My exact reply to him was that I would rather see my family die of starvation than to take up such a despicable job.
You call out Saudis but you are no better.
SNAP......me too i know an interpreter from Iraq who came to UK because of the war, Shiite too.
He never regrets in helping amreekans even when we talked about western conspiracies against Islam.
It always used to bug me why? Why would you work for kafir at the behest of Muslims? I just couldn't get my head around it or my other friends and some are British white. The Shiites answer was simple ......money and visa.
I guess this is the latest tragedy in the history of Muslims of how the Shiites have always helped the kaafirs to destroy Muslim nations.
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Oh, now we are all Muslims? The leaders of Gulf states and family of Saud can go to hell. Precisely my point that you have proven. Shias love to call out the leaders of Gulf States or the Saudis but they are working in conjunction with the Americans in Iraq. Who provided the road map for a "successful" invasion of Afghanistan in 2001? Iran!
I did not even know they offer $250,000 a year (all taxes paid) for being an interpreter, or lapdog, until I met my Iraqi neighbor. He suggested I do the same in Afghanistan (since I can speak Dari and Pashto). My exact reply to him was that I would rather see my family die of starvation than to take up such a despicable job.
You call out Saudis but you are no better.
Not only this, but even the Bush administration's WMD fear-mongering of Saddam was provided by Double-Agent Shias like Chalabi and others, who up to the end maintained that their lies were 'worth it'.
Even beyond that, when any socially unacceptable matter of Islam becomes public to the world, one will surely find some or the other Twelver speaker attributing it back to Abu Bakr (RAA) or 'Umar (RAA) while saying 'This is never part of Islam!', even if the source of it is obviously in the Quran. The peak of political opportunism one must say, whatever they may think of other geopolitical realities and alliances.
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Wow, some Anti Shia mentality we have running loose here. I don't think it is possible for you to discuss anything without bringing Shias and Iran in to it.
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Wow, some Anti Shia mentality we have running loose here. I don't think it is possible for you to discuss anything without bringing Shias and Iran in to it.
oh please, the takfiri shia playing victim again. Shia were brought up to hate thee sahaba, ummulmukminin and tje belief of majorty of muslim since childhood and when the majority found out about those hateful beliefs and then hating you back, all shia do is complain and play innocent victim. Most muslim who hate shia only do so after they found out about your sect's belief without taqiyya mask. Reform shia belief if shia dont want to be hated, otherwise live with it.
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Wow, some Anti Shia mentality we have running loose here. I don't think it is possible for you to discuss anything without bringing Shias and Iran in to it.
This is a discussion forum all about Twelverism and Iran; what else do you expect the people here to talk about, ya Ameen?
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So how well have you done and how far have you got? Analysis?
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Al Qaidah are not Shia, Taliban are not Shia, Sipa e Sahaba are not Shia, ISIS are not Shia, Islamic Jihad are not Shia, Lashkar e Janghvi are not Shia, Hamas are not Shia, Lashkar e Tayiba ate not Shia, Fatah are not Shia and I will post you several more who aren't Shia.
The groups you have named are just as Islamic as they are Sunni. In other words, they are neither. However, your comment gives a glimpse of how you (and perhaps other Shias) think. It is no wonder that my Shia neighbor, who was a US lapdog, an interpreter translating for the US troops in Iraq, would post articles regarding these despicable groups to win favor in the sight of his American masters. To you they can be non-Muslim or they can be non-Shia. Whichever route yields the most profit is the route you take.
You can't just exclude someone from Sunnism just because they do things that embarrass you or Sunnis generally. The main point is that they define themselves as Sunnis and in opposition to Shias, make extensive use Sunni ideas and source texts, etc.. Deflecting on this issue may work when you do it with white people, because white people won't press on the point for fear of seeming "islamophobic". But don't expect Shias not to openly point out the obvious, i.e. all of these groups like ISIS come exclusively from your people.
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oh please, the takfiri shia playing victim again. Shia were brought up to hate thee sahaba, ummulmukminin and tje belief of majorty of muslim since childhood and when the majority found out about those hateful beliefs and then hating you back, all shia do is complain and play innocent victim. Most muslim who hate shia only do so after they found out about your sect's belief without taqiyya mask. Reform shia belief if shia dont want to be hated, otherwise live with it.
This is the main issue the Twelvers have to face: That yes, just like the Khawarij of old, they think themselves arrogantly privy to some truth that the rest of the Ummah did not see, and thus the Takfeer of the Ummah flows naturally from this viewpoint. However, the Sunni group could be much more accepting of a good number of quasi-Shia positions as possibilities of faith than the other way around, due to the mere fact that Shiaism's minority sectarian nature drives them to ever-more outlandish and recalcitrant positions simply to differentiate themselves from the rest and to feel good about anathematizing the Ummah at large.
And concerning the "terrorist Sunni groups", the leadership of the Shias seems quite happy to make deals and even use groups like Al-Qaeda, or the Taliban or even ISIS whenever it suits their larger goals (leaving aside the substantial homegrown Shia terrorists) so one has to wonder where the reality of a lot of anti-Sunni rhetoric is really about.
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oh please, the takfiri shia playing victim again. Shia were brought up to hate thee sahaba, ummulmukminin and tje belief of majorty of muslim since childhood and when the majority found out about those hateful beliefs and then hating you back, all shia do is complain and play innocent victim. Most muslim who hate shia only do so after they found out about your sect's belief without taqiyya mask. Reform shia belief if shia dont want to be hated, otherwise live with it.
This is the main issue the Twelvers have to face: That yes, just like the Khawarij of old, they think themselves arrogantly privy to some truth that the rest of the Ummah did not see, and thus the Takfeer of the Ummah flows naturally from this viewpoint. However, the Sunni group could be much more accepting of a good number of quasi-Shia positions as possibilities of faith than the other way around, due to the mere fact that Shiaism's minority sectarian nature drives them to ever-more outlandish and recalcitrant positions simply to differentiate themselves from the rest and to feel good about anathematizing the Ummah at large.
And concerning the "terrorist Sunni groups", the leadership of the Shias seems quite happy to make deals and even use groups like Al-Qaeda, or the Taliban or even ISIS whenever it suits their larger goals (leaving aside the substantial homegrown Shia terrorists) so one has to wonder where the reality of a lot of anti-Sunni rhetoric is really about.
Yes, Iran, like the West, use your terrorist groups. They use them because it benefits them. But the problem comes from you, not Iran and the West. as for Shia terrorists, I'll just remind you that revenge is not the same as terror. Shias have been robbed of trillions of dollars of oil wealth, have been abused and massacred, and your bastard satanic leader Saddam killed 100s of 1000s, by some counts over a million, Shias. What you're getting now is merely a hard, bitter taste of your own medicine, and nothing more.
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Yes, Iran, like the West, use your terrorist groups. They use them because it benefits them. But the problem comes from you, not Iran and the West. as for Shia terrorists, I'll just remind you that revenge is not the same as terror. Shias have been robbed of trillions of dollars of oil wealth, have been abused and massacred, and your bastard satanic leader Saddam killed 100s of 1000s, by some counts over a million, Shias. What you're getting now is merely a hard, bitter taste of your own medicine, and nothing more.
^ Saddam killed a million Shia? That is as true as the number of people that your sect claims were present in Ghadir Khum. Multiplying the actual number by 10s and 100s is a known trait of your takfiri sect. Oppressive Saddam killed more Sunni Kurds than Shia and their number were not even a million.
At least you admit that your brothers in faith are massacring and killing the Sunnis in their thousands etc (at taste of "our own" medicine).
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Yes, Iran, like the West, use your terrorist groups. They use them because it benefits them. But the problem comes from you, not Iran and the West. as for Shia terrorists, I'll just remind you that revenge is not the same as terror. Shias have been robbed of trillions of dollars of oil wealth, have been abused and massacred, and your bastard satanic leader Saddam killed 100s of 1000s, by some counts over a million, Shias. What you're getting now is merely a hard, bitter taste of your own medicine, and nothing more.
At least the Shia member did admit that Shias like Iranian government do use terror groups for their own goals- I would say, thus they are terrorist-enablers and sympathizers, and this is very obvious with those same people they claim to oppose no less. What they do with their own home-bred terrorists is quite more expansive.
Secondly, the appetite for revenge is mostly linked with Terrorism, this is a recurring fact. One only needs to see Israeli Jews, who in their history did go through pogroms in their history, yet at the very first opportunity turned to their own forms of terror in order to affirm themselves and their group; Twelver Shias are following the Jews in this respect pretty much step by step, and even their calendar of mourning [which easily leads to terror-revenge] closely resembles in an analogous fashion the Israeli one.
About the "trillions of dollars of oil wealth" this is a very amazing claim, I doubt there is such amount of oil wealth in the world to begin with, so that Shias or anyone else would be robbed of it. Besides, now we see Shia terrorist government in Iraq and their puppet-masters in Iran abusing the Kurdish Oil-producing regions- we will see who is getting robbed of billions (or trillions, if one insists) of dollars in different Muslim regions of the world.
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Yes, Iran, like the West, use your terrorist groups. They use them because it benefits them. But the problem comes from you, not Iran and the West. as for Shia terrorists, I'll just remind you that revenge is not the same as terror. Shias have been robbed of trillions of dollars of oil wealth, have been abused and massacred, and your bastard satanic leader Saddam killed 100s of 1000s, by some counts over a million, Shias. What you're getting now is merely a hard, bitter taste of your own medicine, and nothing more.
^ Saddam killed a million Shia? That is as true as the number of people that your sect claims were present in Ghadir Khum. Multiplying the actual number by 10s and 100s is a known trait of your takfiri sect. Oppressive Saddam killed more Sunni Kurds than Shia and their number were not even a million.
At least you admit that your brothers in faith are massacring and killing the Sunnis in their thousands etc (at taste of "our own" medicine).
I'm not even counting the innumerable Iraqi Shia that he killed - I'm mainly referencing the Iran-Iraq War. And yes, according to some counts, 1,000,000+ Iranians died due to the war that Saddam started. Or do you think that it is some kind of coincidence that today, right now, nearly every person calling the shots in Iran with respect to their regional polices were in some way touched by that war? There's no doubt they want revenge - and they are getting it. They are taking revenge on the Iraqi Sunnis, and they are taking revenge on the Bedouins who financed the war against Iran that the Iraqi Sunnis started.
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^
Yes, Iran, like the West, use your terrorist groups. They use them because it benefits them. But the problem comes from you, not Iran and the West. as for Shia terrorists, I'll just remind you that revenge is not the same as terror. Shias have been robbed of trillions of dollars of oil wealth, have been abused and massacred, and your bastard satanic leader Saddam killed 100s of 1000s, by some counts over a million, Shias. What you're getting now is merely a hard, bitter taste of your own medicine, and nothing more.
At least the Shia member did admit that Shias like Iranian government do use terror groups for their own goals- I would say, thus they are terrorist-enablers and sympathizers, and this is very obvious with those same people they claim to oppose no less. What they do with their own home-bred terrorists is quite more expansive.
Secondly, the appetite for revenge is mostly linked with Terrorism, this is a recurring fact. One only needs to see Israeli Jews, who in their history did go through pogroms in their history, yet at the very first opportunity turned to their own forms of terror in order to affirm themselves and their group; Twelver Shias are following the Jews in this respect pretty much step by step, and even their calendar of mourning [which easily leads to terror-revenge] closely resembles in an analogous fashion the Israeli one.
About the "trillions of dollars of oil wealth" this is a very amazing claim, I doubt there is such amount of oil wealth in the world to begin with, so that Shias or anyone else would be robbed of it. Besides, now we see Shia terrorist government in Iraq and their puppet-masters in Iran abusing the Kurdish Oil-producing regions- we will see who is getting robbed of billions (or trillions, if one insists) of dollars in different Muslim regions of the world.
Nearly every single drop of oil in the Middle East is concentrated in Shia territory. And no, I don't believe that it is implausible to say that the value of every drop extracted from those oil fields concentrated in Shia territory amount to over 1 trillion dollars. Shias have achieved sovereignty over their natural resources in Iraq; the next step is for Shias to acquire sovereignty over their natural resources elsewhere, especially Saudi Arabia and Bahrain.
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^
Yes, Iran, like the West, use your terrorist groups. They use them because it benefits them. But the problem comes from you, not Iran and the West. as for Shia terrorists, I'll just remind you that revenge is not the same as terror. Shias have been robbed of trillions of dollars of oil wealth, have been abused and massacred, and your bastard satanic leader Saddam killed 100s of 1000s, by some counts over a million, Shias. What you're getting now is merely a hard, bitter taste of your own medicine, and nothing more.
At least the Shia member did admit that Shias like Iranian government do use terror groups for their own goals- I would say, thus they are terrorist-enablers and sympathizers, and this is very obvious with those same people they claim to oppose no less. What they do with their own home-bred terrorists is quite more expansive.
Secondly, the appetite for revenge is mostly linked with Terrorism, this is a recurring fact. One only needs to see Israeli Jews, who in their history did go through pogroms in their history, yet at the very first opportunity turned to their own forms of terror in order to affirm themselves and their group; Twelver Shias are following the Jews in this respect pretty much step by step, and even their calendar of mourning [which easily leads to terror-revenge] closely resembles in an analogous fashion the Israeli one.
About the "trillions of dollars of oil wealth" this is a very amazing claim, I doubt there is such amount of oil wealth in the world to begin with, so that Shias or anyone else would be robbed of it. Besides, now we see Shia terrorist government in Iraq and their puppet-masters in Iran abusing the Kurdish Oil-producing regions- we will see who is getting robbed of billions (or trillions, if one insists) of dollars in different Muslim regions of the world.
Nearly every single drop of oil in the Middle East is concentrated in Shia territory. And no, I don't believe that it is implausible to say that the value of every drop extracted from those oil fields concentrated in Shia territory amount to over 1 trillion dollars. Shias have achieved sovereignty over their natural resources in Iraq; the next step is for Shias to acquire sovereignty over their natural resources elsewhere, especially Saudi Arabia and Bahrain.
G'luck with that mate.
Insh'Allah, a day will come when this world will be cleaned of Shias - one way or the other. I can't wait! :D
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^
Yes, Iran, like the West, use your terrorist groups. They use them because it benefits them. But the problem comes from you, not Iran and the West. as for Shia terrorists, I'll just remind you that revenge is not the same as terror. Shias have been robbed of trillions of dollars of oil wealth, have been abused and massacred, and your bastard satanic leader Saddam killed 100s of 1000s, by some counts over a million, Shias. What you're getting now is merely a hard, bitter taste of your own medicine, and nothing more.
At least the Shia member did admit that Shias like Iranian government do use terror groups for their own goals- I would say, thus they are terrorist-enablers and sympathizers, and this is very obvious with those same people they claim to oppose no less. What they do with their own home-bred terrorists is quite more expansive.
Secondly, the appetite for revenge is mostly linked with Terrorism, this is a recurring fact. One only needs to see Israeli Jews, who in their history did go through pogroms in their history, yet at the very first opportunity turned to their own forms of terror in order to affirm themselves and their group; Twelver Shias are following the Jews in this respect pretty much step by step, and even their calendar of mourning [which easily leads to terror-revenge] closely resembles in an analogous fashion the Israeli one.
About the "trillions of dollars of oil wealth" this is a very amazing claim, I doubt there is such amount of oil wealth in the world to begin with, so that Shias or anyone else would be robbed of it. Besides, now we see Shia terrorist government in Iraq and their puppet-masters in Iran abusing the Kurdish Oil-producing regions- we will see who is getting robbed of billions (or trillions, if one insists) of dollars in different Muslim regions of the world.
Nearly every single drop of oil in the Middle East is concentrated in Shia territory. And no, I don't believe that it is implausible to say that the value of every drop extracted from those oil fields concentrated in Shia territory amount to over 1 trillion dollars. Shias have achieved sovereignty over their natural resources in Iraq; the next step is for Shias to acquire sovereignty over their natural resources elsewhere, especially Saudi Arabia and Bahrain.
G'luck with that mate.
Insh'Allah, a day will come when this world will be cleaned of Shias - one way or the other. I can't wait! :D
People have been waiting for 1400 years and it still didn't happen. You've got a very long wait and at the end it still won't be happening. But there's nothing wrong in dreaming. But the mess that Saqifa made and your Caliphate brought is still there to be witnessed.
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If you mean the spreading of Islam throughout Arabia, to the Atlantic ocean, then to he edges of China, is what you call a mess, then we whole-heartedly accept that mess with open arms. ;)
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^
Yes, Iran, like the West, use your terrorist groups. They use them because it benefits them. But the problem comes from you, not Iran and the West. as for Shia terrorists, I'll just remind you that revenge is not the same as terror. Shias have been robbed of trillions of dollars of oil wealth, have been abused and massacred, and your bastard satanic leader Saddam killed 100s of 1000s, by some counts over a million, Shias. What you're getting now is merely a hard, bitter taste of your own medicine, and nothing more.
At least the Shia member did admit that Shias like Iranian government do use terror groups for their own goals- I would say, thus they are terrorist-enablers and sympathizers, and this is very obvious with those same people they claim to oppose no less. What they do with their own home-bred terrorists is quite more expansive.
Secondly, the appetite for revenge is mostly linked with Terrorism, this is a recurring fact. One only needs to see Israeli Jews, who in their history did go through pogroms in their history, yet at the very first opportunity turned to their own forms of terror in order to affirm themselves and their group; Twelver Shias are following the Jews in this respect pretty much step by step, and even their calendar of mourning [which easily leads to terror-revenge] closely resembles in an analogous fashion the Israeli one.
About the "trillions of dollars of oil wealth" this is a very amazing claim, I doubt there is such amount of oil wealth in the world to begin with, so that Shias or anyone else would be robbed of it. Besides, now we see Shia terrorist government in Iraq and their puppet-masters in Iran abusing the Kurdish Oil-producing regions- we will see who is getting robbed of billions (or trillions, if one insists) of dollars in different Muslim regions of the world.
Nearly every single drop of oil in the Middle East is concentrated in Shia territory. And no, I don't believe that it is implausible to say that the value of every drop extracted from those oil fields concentrated in Shia territory amount to over 1 trillion dollars. Shias have achieved sovereignty over their natural resources in Iraq; the next step is for Shias to acquire sovereignty over their natural resources elsewhere, especially Saudi Arabia and Bahrain.
G'luck with that mate.
Insh'Allah, a day will come when this world will be cleaned of Shias - one way or the other. I can't wait! :D
People have been waiting for 1400 years and it still didn't happen. You've got a very long wait and at the end it still won't be happening. But there's nothing wrong in dreaming. But the mess that Saqifa made and your Caliphate brought is still there to be witnessed.
We're making good progress. Let's hope your deserted 12th Imam can jump out of his cave, and save the day.
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Nearly every single drop of oil in the Middle East is concentrated in Shia territory. And no, I don't believe that it is implausible to say that the value of every drop extracted from those oil fields concentrated in Shia territory amount to over 1 trillion dollars. Shias have achieved sovereignty over their natural resources in Iraq; the next step is for Shias to acquire sovereignty over their natural resources elsewhere, especially Saudi Arabia and Bahrain.
It is quite strange to claim Shias sit on 'trillions of dollars' of oil, then revise it to '1 trillion' (OK, I say) and claiming Shias have now claimed their Iraqi oil wealth, especially since the Iraqi government itself is admitting to theft of its oil due to faulty and inoperative counters, illegal smuggling by mafia groups, plus incessant intra-Shia corruption and gangsterism - thus, officially the Iraqi government itself does not know how much oil they produce and how much is stolen by gangs.
Readers may refer to the following (and much more is available online):
http://www.thebaghdadpost.com/en/story/5162/Iraqi-parliament-admits-crude-oil-theft-via-Basra-harbors
https://www.ft.com/content/b2e05e80-8723-11e6-a75a-0c4dce033ade
And moving on to the Oil reserves, I am sure we can look at the maps of proven oil reserves [such as: https://assets.geoexpro.com/uploads/b2a82836-ccc9-4e4f-97f1-2a250472471f/ME_9__Box2_GiantFieldsMap_MikeHorn.jpg], and there is very little doubt that Non-Shias sit on top of a lot of the Oil in the region- even forgetting propagandists lies like Eastern Saudi Arabia being Shia, which any Saudi (Sunni or Shia) will know is untrue. Many of us also live or have lived in the region, and we have a good idea of who is who, we cannot be fooled so easily with outrageous claims.
-
^
Yes, Iran, like the West, use your terrorist groups. They use them because it benefits them. But the problem comes from you, not Iran and the West. as for Shia terrorists, I'll just remind you that revenge is not the same as terror. Shias have been robbed of trillions of dollars of oil wealth, have been abused and massacred, and your bastard satanic leader Saddam killed 100s of 1000s, by some counts over a million, Shias. What you're getting now is merely a hard, bitter taste of your own medicine, and nothing more.
At least the Shia member did admit that Shias like Iranian government do use terror groups for their own goals- I would say, thus they are terrorist-enablers and sympathizers, and this is very obvious with those same people they claim to oppose no less. What they do with their own home-bred terrorists is quite more expansive.
Secondly, the appetite for revenge is mostly linked with Terrorism, this is a recurring fact. One only needs to see Israeli Jews, who in their history did go through pogroms in their history, yet at the very first opportunity turned to their own forms of terror in order to affirm themselves and their group; Twelver Shias are following the Jews in this respect pretty much step by step, and even their calendar of mourning [which easily leads to terror-revenge] closely resembles in an analogous fashion the Israeli one.
About the "trillions of dollars of oil wealth" this is a very amazing claim, I doubt there is such amount of oil wealth in the world to begin with, so that Shias or anyone else would be robbed of it. Besides, now we see Shia terrorist government in Iraq and their puppet-masters in Iran abusing the Kurdish Oil-producing regions- we will see who is getting robbed of billions (or trillions, if one insists) of dollars in different Muslim regions of the world.
Nearly every single drop of oil in the Middle East is concentrated in Shia territory. And no, I don't believe that it is implausible to say that the value of every drop extracted from those oil fields concentrated in Shia territory amount to over 1 trillion dollars. Shias have achieved sovereignty over their natural resources in Iraq; the next step is for Shias to acquire sovereignty over their natural resources elsewhere, especially Saudi Arabia and Bahrain.
G'luck with that mate.
Insh'Allah, a day will come when this world will be cleaned of Shias - one way or the other. I can't wait! :D
People have been waiting for 1400 years and it still didn't happen. You've got a very long wait and at the end it still won't be happening. But there's nothing wrong in dreaming. But the mess that Saqifa made and your Caliphate brought is still there to be witnessed.
We're making good progress. Let's hope your deserted 12th Imam can jump out of his cave, and save the day.
[/quote
You're making good progress? How are the Muslims and Islam seen and viewed globally? Things have gone from bad, to worse and even worse towards horrible and terrible, and you call this progress? This is exactly what happens when you disregard Allah and his Messenger and take matters in to your own hands [Saqifa etc].
The 12th Imam, we call it occultation and you call it hiding. But there is one thing you keep forgetting, there are two more who went in to hiding well before he did and that is Eesaa and Khizar. You don't seem to mention and talk about them. Why is it that you cherry pick when it comes to individuals and personalities but don't want to get into a discussion based on merits and qualities solely depending on character, performance and achievement?
You pick and choose and want to comment and question on that rather than having a broader discussion. You start a thread and you never stick to the subject and topic being discussed. There are a set of rules for us and a set of rules for yourself. You want us to provide evidence from Qoran and Sunah for this ,that and the other but refrain from doing yourself. You want to start a discussion then just stick to it which you obviously won't. Because you know that you will be cornered.
-
^
Yes, Iran, like the West, use your terrorist groups. They use them because it benefits them. But the problem comes from you, not Iran and the West. as for Shia terrorists, I'll just remind you that revenge is not the same as terror. Shias have been robbed of trillions of dollars of oil wealth, have been abused and massacred, and your bastard satanic leader Saddam killed 100s of 1000s, by some counts over a million, Shias. What you're getting now is merely a hard, bitter taste of your own medicine, and nothing more.
At least the Shia member did admit that Shias like Iranian government do use terror groups for their own goals- I would say, thus they are terrorist-enablers and sympathizers, and this is very obvious with those same people they claim to oppose no less. What they do with their own home-bred terrorists is quite more expansive.
Secondly, the appetite for revenge is mostly linked with Terrorism, this is a recurring fact. One only needs to see Israeli Jews, who in their history did go through pogroms in their history, yet at the very first opportunity turned to their own forms of terror in order to affirm themselves and their group; Twelver Shias are following the Jews in this respect pretty much step by step, and even their calendar of mourning [which easily leads to terror-revenge] closely resembles in an analogous fashion the Israeli one.
About the "trillions of dollars of oil wealth" this is a very amazing claim, I doubt there is such amount of oil wealth in the world to begin with, so that Shias or anyone else would be robbed of it. Besides, now we see Shia terrorist government in Iraq and their puppet-masters in Iran abusing the Kurdish Oil-producing regions- we will see who is getting robbed of billions (or trillions, if one insists) of dollars in different Muslim regions of the world.
Nearly every single drop of oil in the Middle East is concentrated in Shia territory. And no, I don't believe that it is implausible to say that the value of every drop extracted from those oil fields concentrated in Shia territory amount to over 1 trillion dollars. Shias have achieved sovereignty over their natural resources in Iraq; the next step is for Shias to acquire sovereignty over their natural resources elsewhere, especially Saudi Arabia and Bahrain.
G'luck with that mate.
Insh'Allah, a day will come when this world will be cleaned of Shias - one way or the other. I can't wait! :D
If shias are cleaned out, it won't be because of your ilk. What's the last time you guys won a war? Almost 1000 years, no?
-
Nearly every single drop of oil in the Middle East is concentrated in Shia territory. And no, I don't believe that it is implausible to say that the value of every drop extracted from those oil fields concentrated in Shia territory amount to over 1 trillion dollars. Shias have achieved sovereignty over their natural resources in Iraq; the next step is for Shias to acquire sovereignty over their natural resources elsewhere, especially Saudi Arabia and Bahrain.
It is quite strange to claim Shias sit on 'trillions of dollars' of oil, then revise it to '1 trillion' (OK, I say) and claiming Shias have now claimed their Iraqi oil wealth, especially since the Iraqi government itself is admitting to theft of its oil due to faulty and inoperative counters, illegal smuggling by mafia groups, plus incessant intra-Shia corruption and gangsterism - thus, officially the Iraqi government itself does not know how much oil they produce and how much is stolen by gangs.
Readers may refer to the following (and much more is available online):
http://www.thebaghdadpost.com/en/story/5162/Iraqi-parliament-admits-crude-oil-theft-via-Basra-harbors
https://www.ft.com/content/b2e05e80-8723-11e6-a75a-0c4dce033ade
And moving on to the Oil reserves, I am sure we can look at the maps of proven oil reserves [such as: https://assets.geoexpro.com/uploads/b2a82836-ccc9-4e4f-97f1-2a250472471f/ME_9__Box2_GiantFieldsMap_MikeHorn.jpg], and there is very little doubt that Non-Shias sit on top of a lot of the Oil in the region- even forgetting propagandists lies like Eastern Saudi Arabia being Shia, which any Saudi (Sunni or Shia) will know is untrue. Many of us also live or have lived in the region, and we have a good idea of who is who, we cannot be fooled so easily with outrageous claims.
You can keep your shamefaced lies up, but we all know the truth.
-
Nearly every single drop of oil in the Middle East is concentrated in Shia territory. And no, I don't believe that it is implausible to say that the value of every drop extracted from those oil fields concentrated in Shia territory amount to over 1 trillion dollars. Shias have achieved sovereignty over their natural resources in Iraq; the next step is for Shias to acquire sovereignty over their natural resources elsewhere, especially Saudi Arabia and Bahrain.
It is quite strange to claim Shias sit on 'trillions of dollars' of oil, then revise it to '1 trillion' (OK, I say) and claiming Shias have now claimed their Iraqi oil wealth, especially since the Iraqi government itself is admitting to theft of its oil due to faulty and inoperative counters, illegal smuggling by mafia groups, plus incessant intra-Shia corruption and gangsterism - thus, officially the Iraqi government itself does not know how much oil they produce and how much is stolen by gangs.
Readers may refer to the following (and much more is available online):
http://www.thebaghdadpost.com/en/story/5162/Iraqi-parliament-admits-crude-oil-theft-via-Basra-harbors
https://www.ft.com/content/b2e05e80-8723-11e6-a75a-0c4dce033ade
And moving on to the Oil reserves, I am sure we can look at the maps of proven oil reserves [such as: https://assets.geoexpro.com/uploads/b2a82836-ccc9-4e4f-97f1-2a250472471f/ME_9__Box2_GiantFieldsMap_MikeHorn.jpg], and there is very little doubt that Non-Shias sit on top of a lot of the Oil in the region- even forgetting propagandists lies like Eastern Saudi Arabia being Shia, which any Saudi (Sunni or Shia) will know is untrue. Many of us also live or have lived in the region, and we have a good idea of who is who, we cannot be fooled so easily with outrageous claims.
You can keep your shamefaced lies up, but we all know the truth.
Look whose talking?
Shamefaced lies is an integral of your slimy faith! :D
-
^
Yes, Iran, like the West, use your terrorist groups. They use them because it benefits them. But the problem comes from you, not Iran and the West. as for Shia terrorists, I'll just remind you that revenge is not the same as terror. Shias have been robbed of trillions of dollars of oil wealth, have been abused and massacred, and your bastard satanic leader Saddam killed 100s of 1000s, by some counts over a million, Shias. What you're getting now is merely a hard, bitter taste of your own medicine, and nothing more.
At least the Shia member did admit that Shias like Iranian government do use terror groups for their own goals- I would say, thus they are terrorist-enablers and sympathizers, and this is very obvious with those same people they claim to oppose no less. What they do with their own home-bred terrorists is quite more expansive.
Secondly, the appetite for revenge is mostly linked with Terrorism, this is a recurring fact. One only needs to see Israeli Jews, who in their history did go through pogroms in their history, yet at the very first opportunity turned to their own forms of terror in order to affirm themselves and their group; Twelver Shias are following the Jews in this respect pretty much step by step, and even their calendar of mourning [which easily leads to terror-revenge] closely resembles in an analogous fashion the Israeli one.
About the "trillions of dollars of oil wealth" this is a very amazing claim, I doubt there is such amount of oil wealth in the world to begin with, so that Shias or anyone else would be robbed of it. Besides, now we see Shia terrorist government in Iraq and their puppet-masters in Iran abusing the Kurdish Oil-producing regions- we will see who is getting robbed of billions (or trillions, if one insists) of dollars in different Muslim regions of the world.
Nearly every single drop of oil in the Middle East is concentrated in Shia territory. And no, I don't believe that it is implausible to say that the value of every drop extracted from those oil fields concentrated in Shia territory amount to over 1 trillion dollars. Shias have achieved sovereignty over their natural resources in Iraq; the next step is for Shias to acquire sovereignty over their natural resources elsewhere, especially Saudi Arabia and Bahrain.
G'luck with that mate.
Insh'Allah, a day will come when this world will be cleaned of Shias - one way or the other. I can't wait! :D
If shias are cleaned out, it won't be because of your ilk. What's the last time you guys won a war? Almost 1000 years, no?
You need to rewind 1000 years in history, and make your way to the present! You might end up learning something.
-
^
Yes, Iran, like the West, use your terrorist groups. They use them because it benefits them. But the problem comes from you, not Iran and the West. as for Shia terrorists, I'll just remind you that revenge is not the same as terror. Shias have been robbed of trillions of dollars of oil wealth, have been abused and massacred, and your bastard satanic leader Saddam killed 100s of 1000s, by some counts over a million, Shias. What you're getting now is merely a hard, bitter taste of your own medicine, and nothing more.
At least the Shia member did admit that Shias like Iranian government do use terror groups for their own goals- I would say, thus they are terrorist-enablers and sympathizers, and this is very obvious with those same people they claim to oppose no less. What they do with their own home-bred terrorists is quite more expansive.
Secondly, the appetite for revenge is mostly linked with Terrorism, this is a recurring fact. One only needs to see Israeli Jews, who in their history did go through pogroms in their history, yet at the very first opportunity turned to their own forms of terror in order to affirm themselves and their group; Twelver Shias are following the Jews in this respect pretty much step by step, and even their calendar of mourning [which easily leads to terror-revenge] closely resembles in an analogous fashion the Israeli one.
About the "trillions of dollars of oil wealth" this is a very amazing claim, I doubt there is such amount of oil wealth in the world to begin with, so that Shias or anyone else would be robbed of it. Besides, now we see Shia terrorist government in Iraq and their puppet-masters in Iran abusing the Kurdish Oil-producing regions- we will see who is getting robbed of billions (or trillions, if one insists) of dollars in different Muslim regions of the world.
Nearly every single drop of oil in the Middle East is concentrated in Shia territory. And no, I don't believe that it is implausible to say that the value of every drop extracted from those oil fields concentrated in Shia territory amount to over 1 trillion dollars. Shias have achieved sovereignty over their natural resources in Iraq; the next step is for Shias to acquire sovereignty over their natural resources elsewhere, especially Saudi Arabia and Bahrain.
G'luck with that mate.
Insh'Allah, a day will come when this world will be cleaned of Shias - one way or the other. I can't wait! :D
If shias are cleaned out, it won't be because of your ilk. What's the last time you guys won a war? Almost 1000 years, no?
You need to rewind 1000 years in history, and make your way to the present! You might end up learning something.
It depends on who we're talking about. Arab Sunnis really haven't won a war since the early Islamic conquests. Since then they've consistently been getting smacked around and bullied. All they've managed to do since those early conquests is win a few defensive battles, and even then, their armies in those cases were led my non-Arabs (Salahuddin, Mamlucks). Sunnis generally haven't won a war since conquest of Constantinople.
If I were mean, I'd point out that your little rebellion in Syria was just crushed by a bunch of Afghan refugee conscripts, but no, that's too rude....
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You can keep your shamefaced lies up, but we all know the truth.
I provided maps from oil-related sites, and links even from Iraqi sources and business sites who could care less about religion (as I mentioned there are many more links available for those who want to research the matter further). If Shias cannot face their own contemporary witnesses concerning their criminal and corrupt activity today, this is not our problem, but it does show that they have the impetus to hide facts and are not trustworthy for Muslims or for the world at large.
From my side, it shows the truth of the OP: Yes, there is a tendency within Shiaism that is Kharijite, threatening and executing those they don't like, even their fellow Shias if things don't go well, which says a lot about what they would be willing to do with the Ummah at large.
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You can't just exclude someone from Sunnism just because they do things that embarrass you or Sunnis generally.
Just Sunnism? We have declared them to be outside the fold of Islam altogether. With Shias, it is damned if you do, damned if you don't. When we (Sunnis) exercise patience as these despicable organizations visit tragedies upon innocent Muslims, the Shias claim that we are not doing anything and demand for us to condemn them. When we prove that these organizations have renegaded from Islam and condemn them on an international level, the Shias come back to remind us that these are from among us.
The main point is that they define themselves as Sunnis and in opposition to Shias, make extensive use Sunni ideas and source texts, etc..
They also define themselves as Muslims, primarily and use Islamic texts, namely the Qur'an, to justify their crimes. Would you now say they are Muslim?
Deflecting on this issue may work when you do it with white people, because white people won't press on the point for fear of seeming "islamophobic". But don't expect Shias not to openly point out the obvious, i.e. all of these groups like ISIS come exclusively from your people.
Deflecting? Deflection and defection are for the Shias, my brother. Your ancestors defected from mainstream Islam and you are masters at deflection. To the white people you say that ISIS is not an Islamic entity; to the Sunnis you say that it is not a Shia entity. You keep deflecting issues that affect the ummah while claiming that you are all for unity, or at least for the betterment and improvement on this ummah.
Your entire ideology is based on deflection. I have cited this example before and I have seen it on many YouTube videos as well where the speaker will go off tangent, to that which is irrelevant, to fan the flames of hatred. I was at a Shia mosque in 2015 during Muharram listening to a lecture in which the speaker intended to highlight the qualities of Umm Salama (ra). He spent half the time, if not more, attacking Aisha (ra) and Hafsa (ra). Must we lower the other wives (ra) of the Prophet (saw) in order for Umm Salama (ra) to stand out? Umm Salama's (ra) rank is not contingent upon what Aisha (ra) did or what Hafsa (ra) said. And then I hear Shias moan that we elevate other Sahaba (ra) while trying to lower the rank of Imam Ali (ra) when they are guilty of what they charge us with.
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You can't just exclude someone from Sunnism just because they do things that embarrass you or Sunnis generally.
Just Sunnism? We have declared them to be outside the fold of Islam altogether. With Shias, it is damned if you do, damned if you don't. When we (Sunnis) exercise patience as these despicable organizations visit tragedies upon innocent Muslims, the Shias claim that we are not doing anything and demand for us to condemn them. When we prove that these organizations have renegaded from Islam and condemn them on an international level, the Shias come back to remind us that these are from among us.
The main point is that they define themselves as Sunnis and in opposition to Shias, make extensive use Sunni ideas and source texts, etc..
They also define themselves as Muslims, primarily and use Islamic texts, namely the Qur'an, to justify their crimes. Would you now say they are Muslim?
Deflecting on this issue may work when you do it with white people, because white people won't press on the point for fear of seeming "islamophobic". But don't expect Shias not to openly point out the obvious, i.e. all of these groups like ISIS come exclusively from your people.
Deflecting? Deflection and defection are for the Shias, my brother. Your ancestors defected from mainstream Islam and you are masters at deflection. To the white people you say that ISIS is not an Islamic entity; to the Sunnis you say that it is not a Shia entity. You keep deflecting issues that affect the ummah while claiming that you are all for unity, or at least for the betterment and improvement on this ummah.
The fact that these organizations constantly emerge from your community suggests that no matter what you or others may say, they represent at least one expression of Sunni Islam. Also orthodox Sunni usually don't back up their denunciations of groups like AQ or ISIS with conclusive evidences from their own books. Perhaps it is because they haven't got any.
[url]This[/https://maskedavenger1.wordpress.com/2017/08/01/ya-baghdadi/url] is probably the most eloquent denunciation I've read of ISIS from a Sunni. Judging by that standard , though, it is clear that Sunnis don't have any real grounds on which to denounce ISIS and groups like them. Masked Avenger's argument is based on emotion; he has little to support his denunciation of Baghdadi.
Essentially, I don't think it is accurate to say that they are not an Islamic entity. Clearly they are not Hindu or Christian. I think they are Sunni Islam taken to a logical conclusion. I regard Sunnis as Muslims, so I have to regard them in some sense as Muslims as well.
I don't believe in unconditional unity. I don't want to unite with people who consider me an apostate and who want to continue to steal from me and to kill me. Sunnis provoked this war, and until they are subdued I don't want to talk about unity.
-
You can't just exclude someone from Sunnism just because they do things that embarrass you or Sunnis generally.
Just Sunnism? We have declared them to be outside the fold of Islam altogether. With Shias, it is damned if you do, damned if you don't. When we (Sunnis) exercise patience as these despicable organizations visit tragedies upon innocent Muslims, the Shias claim that we are not doing anything and demand for us to condemn them. When we prove that these organizations have renegaded from Islam and condemn them on an international level, the Shias come back to remind us that these are from among us.
The main point is that they define themselves as Sunnis and in opposition to Shias, make extensive use Sunni ideas and source texts, etc..
They also define themselves as Muslims, primarily and use Islamic texts, namely the Qur'an, to justify their crimes. Would you now say they are Muslim?
Deflecting on this issue may work when you do it with white people, because white people won't press on the point for fear of seeming "islamophobic". But don't expect Shias not to openly point out the obvious, i.e. all of these groups like ISIS come exclusively from your people.
Deflecting? Deflection and defection are for the Shias, my brother. Your ancestors defected from mainstream Islam and you are masters at deflection. To the white people you say that ISIS is not an Islamic entity; to the Sunnis you say that it is not a Shia entity. You keep deflecting issues that affect the ummah while claiming that you are all for unity, or at least for the betterment and improvement on this ummah.
The fact that these organizations constantly emerge from your community suggests that no matter what you or others may say, they represent at least one expression of Sunni Islam. Also orthodox Sunni usually don't back up their denunciations of groups like AQ or ISIS with conclusive evidences from their own books. Perhaps it is because they haven't got any.
[url]This[/https://maskedavenger1.wordpress.com/2017/08/01/ya-baghdadi/url] is probably the most eloquent denunciation I've read of ISIS from a Sunni. Judging by that standard , though, it is clear that Sunnis don't have any real grounds on which to denounce ISIS and groups like them. Masked Avenger's argument is based on emotion; he has little to support his denunciation of Baghdadi.
Essentially, I don't think it is accurate to say that they are not an Islamic entity. Clearly they are not Hindu or Christian. I think they are Sunni Islam taken to a logical conclusion. I regard Sunnis as Muslims, so I have to regard them in some sense as Muslims as well.
I don't believe in unconditional unity. I don't want to unite with people who consider me an apostate and who want to continue to steal from me and to kill me. Sunnis provoked this war, and until they are subdued I don't want to talk about unity.
Agreed 100%.
All Shias will eventually be defeated, and Karbala will be under Sunni control once more.
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The fact that these organizations constantly emerge from your community suggests that no matter what you or others may say, they represent at least one expression of Sunni Islam.
Another fact is that the non-Muslims too nearly say the same thing; that these organizations constantly emerge from your religion. However, we know that at the end of the day, these are claims that carry no weight whether said by a Shia or non-Muslim.
Also orthodox Sunni usually don't back up their denunciations of groups like AQ or ISIS with conclusive evidences from their own books. Perhaps it is because they haven't got any.
Let me not go too far and allow my teacher (whom I personally know and put questions to) answer you. This man alone held weekly seminars (over the weekends, stretching months across the year 2015) to teach Muslims the correct aqeedah (so that they are better prepared not to fall into extremist ideologies) and introduce Islam to non-Muslims (including law enforcement agencies).
Judging by that standard , though, it is clear that Sunnis don't have any real grounds on which to denounce ISIS and groups like them.
I think you have been provided evidence which is not only rooted in "real grounds" but one that is first-hand. In other words, this is one scholar I know who has taken it upon himself to condemn these groups. He is one of the many in the Washington DC Metropolitan Area. There are many more like him.
Essentially, I don't think it is accurate to say that they are not an Islamic entity. Clearly they are not Hindu or Christian. I think they are Sunni Islam taken to a logical conclusion.
And what is that logical conclusion?
so I have to regard them in some sense as Muslims as well.
Oh, so now they are Muslims, according to you? The flip-flop and the art of making up rules as you go along! Now that you are forcing them upon us, you have no choice but to say that they are Muslim while your scholars are calling them the exact opposite.
I don't want to unite with people who consider me an apostate and who want to continue to steal from me and to kill me.
You are not an apostate. Refer to Dr. Tarek Elgawhary's aqeedah lectures.
Sunnis provoked this war, and until they are subdued I don't want to talk about unity.
Which war? I hope you have a far-sighted view and not restrict history to the time from where on ISIS came into existence.
-
The fact that these organizations constantly emerge from your community suggests that no matter what you or others may say, they represent at least one expression of Sunni Islam.
Another fact is that the non-Muslims too nearly say the same thing; that these organizations constantly emerge from your religion. However, we know that at the end of the day, these are claims that carry no weight whether said by a Shia or non-Muslim.
Also orthodox Sunni usually don't back up their denunciations of groups like AQ or ISIS with conclusive evidences from their own books. Perhaps it is because they haven't got any.
Let me not go too far and allow my teacher (whom I personally know and put questions to) answer you. This man alone held weekly seminars (over the weekends, stretching months across the year 2015) to teach Muslims the correct aqeedah (so that they are better prepared not to fall into extremist ideologies) and introduce Islam to non-Muslims (including law enforcement agencies).
Judging by that standard , though, it is clear that Sunnis don't have any real grounds on which to denounce ISIS and groups like them.
I think you have been provided evidence which is not only rooted in "real grounds" but one that is first-hand. In other words, this is one scholar I know who has taken it upon himself to condemn these groups. He is one of the many in the Washington DC Metropolitan Area. There are many more like him.
Essentially, I don't think it is accurate to say that they are not an Islamic entity. Clearly they are not Hindu or Christian. I think they are Sunni Islam taken to a logical conclusion.
And what is that logical conclusion?
so I have to regard them in some sense as Muslims as well.
Oh, so now they are Muslims, according to you? The flip-flop and the art of making up rules as you go along! Now that you are forcing them upon us, you have no choice but to say that they are Muslim while your scholars are calling them the exact opposite.
I don't want to unite with people who consider me an apostate and who want to continue to steal from me and to kill me.
You are not an apostate. Refer to Dr. Tarek Elgawhary's aqeedah lectures.
Sunnis provoked this war, and until they are subdued I don't want to talk about unity.
Which war? I hope you have a far-sighted view and not restrict history to the time from where on ISIS came into existence.
I acknowledge what your teacher is saying, but his point of view does not represent some sort of consensus among Sunnis. Whether you like it or not ISIS, AQ, all of them, emerge exclusively from your community, and even if they don't have unanimous support, these groups are very adept at using sources from your own books to back up their actions. So at minimum they represent at least one faction within the Sunni Islamic world. Nothing you say is going to refute that. Unfortunately, non-Muslims in the West are usually too concerned about political correctness to emphasize this fact, but to the extent that they blame the problem on your community, they are right.
I never said Sunnis are not Muslim, so I don't get why you're so surprised by my statement. I think much of the reason why everyone is takfiring each other is because Muslims, Sunni or Shia, always want to have a religious justification for war. I don't have that problem. My problem with Sunnis is not that they are not Muslim, it is that they want to kill me.
"Which war?" You act like the entire post-colonial Arab order hasn't been rooted in oppression of Shia, and theft of their natural resources. Or that Sunnis didn't constantly massacre and invade Shia. Or that Pakistan hasn't been smacking the Shia around consistently since 1977. I'm not even counting Zarqawi and his ilk, who initiated the current war in Iraq.