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Shia view on sahabah

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fgss

Shia view on sahabah
« on: June 12, 2017, 07:41:33 PM »
This is interesting. It clearly shows their ignorance in this very important part of Islamic history.


http://www.shiachat.com/forum/blogs/entry/233-did-the-sahaba-become-kafir/

Any thoughts or refutations?
إِنَّ أَصْدَقَ الْحَدِيثِ كِتَابُ اللَّهِ وَأَحْسَنَ الْهَدْىِ هَدْىُ مُحَمَّدٍ وَشَرَّ الأُمُورِ مُحْدَثَاتُهَا وَكُلَّ مُحْدَثَةٍ بِدْعَةٌ وَكُلَّ بِدْعَةٍ ضَلاَلَةٌ وَكُلَّ ضَلاَلَةٍ فِي النَّارِ

May Allah guide us to the true teachings of Quran and Sunnah of His beloved Prophet (s.a.w.w). Ameen

Rationalist

Re: Shia view on sahabah
« Reply #1 on: June 13, 2017, 07:13:24 AM »
To say that turning away from Waliyah is not turning away from Islam, is trying to sugar coat the 12er Shia view on the sahaba.  To understand that the 12er Shia view that they left Islam is the real interpretation and this is the interpretation which had a consensus.

fgss

Re: Shia view on sahabah
« Reply #2 on: June 13, 2017, 12:20:54 PM »
To say that turning away from Waliyah is not turning away from Islam, is trying to sugar coat the 12er Shia view on the sahaba.  To understand that the 12er Shia view that they left Islam is the real interpretation and this is the interpretation which had a consensus.

Any quotes from their classic scholars against their sugar caoting? Or any more narrations from their Imams?
إِنَّ أَصْدَقَ الْحَدِيثِ كِتَابُ اللَّهِ وَأَحْسَنَ الْهَدْىِ هَدْىُ مُحَمَّدٍ وَشَرَّ الأُمُورِ مُحْدَثَاتُهَا وَكُلَّ مُحْدَثَةٍ بِدْعَةٌ وَكُلَّ بِدْعَةٍ ضَلاَلَةٌ وَكُلَّ ضَلاَلَةٍ فِي النَّارِ

May Allah guide us to the true teachings of Quran and Sunnah of His beloved Prophet (s.a.w.w). Ameen

Farid

Re: Shia view on sahabah
« Reply #3 on: June 13, 2017, 12:31:21 PM »
Al Mufeed quotes the Shia consensus that rejecting any Imam makes you a kaffir.

This is supported by narrations of their Imams that say that he who doesn't know the Imam of his time dies the death of jahilliyah of Kufr and Nifaq.

Rationalist

Re: Shia view on sahabah
« Reply #4 on: June 14, 2017, 02:01:48 AM »
To say that turning away from Waliyah is not turning away from Islam, is trying to sugar coat the 12er Shia view on the sahaba.  To understand that the 12er Shia view that they left Islam is the real interpretation and this is the interpretation which had a consensus.

Any quotes from their classic scholars against their sugar caoting? Or any more narrations from their Imams?

Look at Al Khoei's fatwa.

Grand Ayatollah Al Khoei, he goes on to say that all non-12rs (even including other shia sects) are Muslims in the Dunya and kaffirs in the Akhira:

"We had already spoke about The Najasah(uncleanliness) of all the teams who differ with the Twelver Shias and their Tahara. And in brief that denying the Wilayah for ''all'' the Imams PBUT or ''some of them'''' is like denying the message and it brings Kufr and Najasah? Or that Denying The Wilayah necessarily means leaving Iman (Belief) with the Hukm of his Islam and Tahara. What is popular amongst the scholars Is the Tahara of those who differ with us Although the author of the book "Al Hada'eq" May Allah sanctify his secret has attributed to the modern scholars like al Sayyed al murtada that it was popular amongst them That those who differ are Kouffar and Najis even the ''other'' Shia teams(1). What we can use to prove the Najasah of those who differ with us is divided into three parts, Firstly what we Read in Countless and plenty of Narrations that those who differ with the Imams are Kouffar."

"And thus Other Shia teams like Zaidiyah, Kisaniyah, Ismaliyah and others their ruling is the same as that of those who differ with us because there is no difference between denying Wilayah of the Imams altogether and between accepting it for ''some ''Imams and denying it for other Imams, and it was mentioned that he who denies'' one'' denies'' all'', and I know that Denying this Wilayah does not mean Kufr or Najasah nor does denying Wilayah for some of the Imams, What is correct is The Tahara of all those who differ with the Twelver Shia and their Islam Based on what is ''Apparent'' Although ÍN REALITY They are All Kouffar and we have called them Muslims in The Dunyah and Kaffirs on The Day of judgement."

-Source: kitab al tahara, Khoei, 2/87.
sheikh Muhammad Hassan Jawahiri in his book "Jawahir al-kalam" 6/67 quoted hadith:

MuslimAnswers

Re: Shia view on sahabah
« Reply #5 on: June 14, 2017, 04:11:53 AM »
To say that turning away from Waliyah is not turning away from Islam, is trying to sugar coat the 12er Shia view on the sahaba.  To understand that the 12er Shia view that they left Islam is the real interpretation and this is the interpretation which had a consensus.

That would still seem to be within the bounds of how the 12ers speak and present these matters, in that one could be a Muslim yet bound for Eternal Hellfire - by making a distinction between a Muslim and a Believer, by equating most Muslims with Munaafiqs.

The real 'Unity' can start to take place when they consider that someone who thoroughly studies yet rejects the evidences for their Imams' Wilaayah can still find salvation in the Hereafter, anything else the Twelvers might say is cosmetic.

fgss

Re: Shia view on sahabah
« Reply #6 on: June 14, 2017, 08:35:54 AM »
Al Mufeed quotes the Shia consensus that rejecting any Imam makes you a kaffir.

This is supported by narrations of their Imams that say that he who doesn't know the Imam of his time dies the death of jahilliyah of Kufr and Nifaq.


Can you share Al Mufeed's quote in detail?
إِنَّ أَصْدَقَ الْحَدِيثِ كِتَابُ اللَّهِ وَأَحْسَنَ الْهَدْىِ هَدْىُ مُحَمَّدٍ وَشَرَّ الأُمُورِ مُحْدَثَاتُهَا وَكُلَّ مُحْدَثَةٍ بِدْعَةٌ وَكُلَّ بِدْعَةٍ ضَلاَلَةٌ وَكُلَّ ضَلاَلَةٍ فِي النَّارِ

May Allah guide us to the true teachings of Quran and Sunnah of His beloved Prophet (s.a.w.w). Ameen

Rationalist

Re: Shia view on sahabah
« Reply #7 on: June 15, 2017, 05:06:09 AM »

Noor-us-Sunnah

Re: Shia view on sahabah
« Reply #8 on: June 15, 2017, 07:53:11 AM »
Al Mufeed quotes the Shia consensus that rejecting any Imam makes you a kaffir.

This is supported by narrations of their Imams that say that he who doesn't know the Imam of his time dies the death of jahilliyah of Kufr and Nifaq.


Can you share Al Mufeed's quote in detail?

 Shia scholar Al-Mufeed stated in his book:

16 – Speech about Innovators and the titles and the rules they deserve:

Imamia agree that all innovators are Kafir. It is necessary for the Imam, when in power, to make them do repentance, after inviting(dawah) them(to reject biddah) and reasoning with them and providing them evidence. If they repent and return to the straight path, they will be freed, otherwise, on the ground of turning back from the faith, they will be killed. And if anyone of them dies in a state of innovation is from the people of hell.  (Awail al-Maqalat., point 16. Page 65)

 

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