The story of Fadak!

[Hani]

So Mr ha ha ha and hee hee hee, are you npt going off topic here??? Ooops, you're the global mpderator, you're incharge, so you can't  be going wrong a ywhere.

Hey I'm a cheerful guy, what can I say...

are you npt going off topic here??? Ooops

No, I'm commenting on the source you gave, which you didn't know its author or the book's name, you listed him as a "Sunni reference" even though he's a Mu`tazili Shia.

[Ameen]

So Mr ha ha ha and hee hee hee, are you npt going off topic here??? Ooops, you're the global mpderator, you're incharge, so you can't  be going wrong a ywhere.

Hey I'm a cheerful guy, what can I say...

are you npt going off topic here??? Ooops

No, I'm commenting on the source you gave, which you didn't know its author or the book's name, you listed him as a "Sunni reference" even though he's a Mu`tazili Shia.

A bit too cheerful wouldn't you say. But anyways, let me hurray you! Ok, so what is the books name and who is the author??? Mu'tazili Shia??? who are they???

[Ameen]

Your words,

 "My answer is, they didn't need Fadak because it wasn't the only source to fund the Muslims, there were plenty of other ways that they funded the armies."

My reply,

If they didn't need Fadak then what was their source of income to run government??? Where and from what source did the funds come from for them to run the state affairs??? How was the Muslim army funded???
With references please, thank you!

Your words,

"I add, if Fadak was the only source of funding as you claim, why'd he give it to Fatimah thus depriving the nation of an essential resource and key to military success?"

My reply,

When you decide to run a project, mission, company, organisation or government then, it is down to you to look for or create the income/funding. But humans, even nowa days look for the most easiest and cheapest route and way, so they don't have to make an effort or much effort. Looking for ways to grab on to some ones rights, property or belongings is not the way forward.

 Let me give you an example, why did the Prophet (pbuh) marry Khateeja (sa) Was Khateeja's (sa) wealth not used by the Prophet (pbuh) to fund Islamic projects and missions??? This is the way forward and everything was done by the will of Khateeja (sa). There is a right way of doing something and a wrong way of doing it. Or did the Prophet (pbuh) have other resources and didn't rely on and need Khateeja's (sa) wealth???

Your words,

Also, if Fadak belonged to Fatimah during the life of the Prophet (saw), no one had a right to take from it to fund the army, which means the Muslims remained during his life without any funding because the Prophet (saw) handed the only means of income to his daughter.

My reply,

Now when the following verse was revealed:

"And give unto one who is of Kin (to thee) that which is due”(17:26)

What did the Prophet (pbuh) to demonstrate this??? When prayers, fasting, zaka'ath etc was made compulsory,  the Prophet (pbuh) showed people by demonstrating how they should pray, fast etc. When this verse was revealed how did the Prophet (pbuh) demonstrate it??? It's obvious that the Prophet (pbuh) must have showed the Muslims! So what did he do and how did he do it??? What is the Ahle Sunnah point of view???

[sword_of_sunnah]

The decisive word on Fadak and Inheritance of Prophet Muhammad(saw).
http://youpuncturedtheark.wordpress.com/2014/09/11/the-decisive-word-on-fadak-and-inheritance-of-prophet-muhammadsaw/

[Hani]

Ok, so what is the books name and who is the author??? Mu'tazili Shia??? who are they???

"Sharh Nahj-ul-Balaghah" is a book written to interpret the popular Nahj-ul-Balaghah, this is the earliest interpretation for this book and the main one used by Shia scholars.


The author Ibn abi al-Hadeed is Mu`tazili in his Usoul and a Shia in his orientation.


Thus NOT A SUNNI SOURCE.

[Hani]

SubhanAllah, let me repeat,

If they didn't need Fadak then what was their source of income to run government??? Where and from what source did the funds come from for them to run the state affairs??? How was the Muslim army funded???
With references please, thank you!

And we said the Muslims fought countless wars before Fadak was acquired without any funding issues, Muslims lands were large and wide.

Let me give you an example, why did the Prophet (pbuh) marry Khateeja (sa) Was Khateeja's (sa) wealth not used by the Prophet (pbuh) to fund Islamic projects and missions??? This is the way forward and everything was done by the will of Khateeja (sa). There is a right way of doing something and a wrong way of doing it. Or did the Prophet (pbuh) have other resources and didn't rely on and need Khateeja's (sa) wealth???

Khadeeja's wealth was useful ONLY at the very beginning of the Da`wah, later it never served any purpose. The believers also paid with their own wealth, such as Abu Bakr and `Uthman who also paid large sums of money to help prepare Muslim armies and buy slaves and wells.


If Khadeeja's wealth was sufficient he (saw) would not have needed to rely on the wealth of the believers.

"And give unto one who is of Kin (to thee) that which is due”(17:26)


What did the Prophet (pbuh) to demonstrate this??? When prayers, fasting, zaka'ath etc was made compulsory,  the Prophet (pbuh) showed people by demonstrating how they should pray, fast etc. When this verse was revealed how did the Prophet (pbuh) demonstrate it??? It's obvious that the Prophet (pbuh) must have showed the Muslims! So what did he do and how did he do it??? What is the Ahle Sunnah point of view???

I need to go now, I'll show you later what Ahlul-Sunnah's view is, make sure to remind me.


(Narration about him giving it to Fatimah (as) has fabricated chains)

[Ameen]

Abu Bakar (ra)

I thought you were a Shi`ah?

Off topic brother but i have answered it.

[Ameen]

I thought you were a Shi`ah?

He is a Shia. He even use ra for Muawiyah.

I don't know the reason

Isn't this off topic bro??? Since you mention and point out a lot about off topic.

[Ameen]

, lSubhanAllahet me repeat,

If they didn't need Fadak then what was their source of income to run government??? Where and from what source did the funds come from for them to run the state affairs??? How was the Muslim army funded???
With references please, thank you!

And we said the Muslims fought countless wars before Fadak was acquired without any funding issues, Muslims lands were large and wide.

Let me give you an example, why did the Prophet (pbuh) marry Khateeja (sa) Was Khateeja's (sa) wealth not used by the Prophet (pbuh) to fund Islamic projects and missions??? This is the way forward and everything was done by the will of Khateeja (sa). There is a right way of doing something and a wrong way of doing it. Or did the Prophet (pbuh) have other resources and didn't rely on and need Khateeja's (sa) wealth???

Khadeeja's wealth was useful ONLY at the very beginning of the Da`wah, later it never served any purpose. The believers also paid with their own wealth, such as Abu Bakr and `Uthman who also paid large sums of money to help prepare Muslim armies and buy slaves and wells.


If Khadeeja's wealth was sufficient he (saw) would not have needed to rely on the wealth of the believers.

"And give unto one who is of Kin (to thee) that which is due”(17:26)


What did the Prophet (pbuh) to demonstrate this??? When prayers, fasting, zaka'ath etc was made compulsory,  the Prophet (pbuh) showed people by demonstrating how they should pray, fast etc. When this verse was revealed how did the Prophet (pbuh) demonstrate it??? It's obvious that the Prophet (pbuh) must have showed the Muslims! So what did he do and how did he do it??? What is the Ahle Sunnah point of view???

I need to go now, I'll show you later what Ahlul-Sunnah's view is, make sure to remind me.


(Narration about him giving it to Fatimah (as) has fabricated chains)

You said,

"SubhanAllaha let me repeat, And we said the Muslims fought countless wars before Fadak was acquired without any funding issues, Muslims lands were large and wide".

My reply,

Rather than just repeating put forward references, which I have already asked for, to back your claim. Otherwise it's just words and nothing more.

You said,

"Khadeeja's wealth was useful ONLY at the very beginning of the Da`wah, later it never served any purpose. The believers also paid with their own wealth, such as Abu Bakr and `Uthman who also paid large sums of money to help prepare Muslim armies and buy slaves and wells."

My reply,

What do you mean by" USEFUL ONLY and LATER IT NEVER SERVED ANY PURPOSE"

It sounds like you want to water and wash Khadeeja's (sa) commitments and contributions down and make them look so little and small by the words you are using. Where would Islam and the Muslims be, if it wasn't for Khateeja's (sa) wealth??? Secondly the two names you have mentioned were also their at the very beginning of Islam, where was their financial commitments and contributions and the very beginning???

You said,

"If Khadeeja's wealth was sufficient he (saw) would not have needed to rely on the wealth of the believers."

My reply,

Where was the wealth of these believers when it was most urgent and needed at the very beginning??? The Lady and her wealth is being undermined here and the believers are being pushed up, who played no role by the sounds of it at the very beginning.

The two great ladies Khadeeja (sa) and Fatimah (sa), it was because of the first's wealth that Islam and the Muslims grew and prevailed. And it was due to the second's wealth that Khilafath and the Muslims were secured. This is reality and facts. Anything other than this has to be proven, otherwise it's just words.


"


"

[Hani]

There's a limit to how weak a person's reply can be, you reached that limit so I won't answer anything in your last post, believe it or not nothing there merits an answer because the answer to all your questions is either something that is common sense, something which is common knowledge or something you can easily find out by using google for five minutes.


When you bring us important valuable questions we'll address them, until then peace.

[Husayn]

Hani,

Is it possible to just create a thread for Ameen, where he can post whatever questions he wants, rather than have him spamming 10 threads?

[Ameen]

There's a limit to how weak a person's reply can be, you reached that limit so I won't answer anything in your last post, believe it or not nothing there merits an answer because the answer to all your questions is either something that is common sense, something which is common knowledge or something you can easily find out by using google for five minutes.


When you bring us important valuable questions we'll address them, until then peace.

I asked you for references as evidence and proof for you to back your claims but you give me a childish response in return. Bravo! Well done! Weak reply??? Well a weak reply is something put forward without any references and that applies to your post/s. It's not that "you won't answer", it's actually "you can't answer", well for the time being that is. Five minutes??? Well it takes you less than five minutes to slander, attack, humiliate, insult, pick on, be sarcastic towards and to issue challenges to Shiaism and the Shias. But take all the time you need my friend. You have a lot to answer. Keep this in mind, you are falling behind. You are intelligent and I'm sure you can do better, much better than these childish responses.

[Ameen]

Did The Prophet (Pbuh) Present The Land To Fatimah (sa) ?

The Prophet (pbuh) in his life time with the instructions from Allah the almighty presented this Land to Hazrath Fatimah (sa), as is found in the Commentary of the respected Sunni Scholar, Jalaluddin al-Suyuti. Here is the historical background for the Land of Fadak, and after that is the text for the Tafseer for the Verse 26 Chapter XVII.

Imam ‘Ali (as) was sent to Fadak, a Jewish town not far from Khaibar to take it. But, before the use of any force, the inhabitants tendered their submission, ceding half of their property to the prophet (pbuh). When the Angel Gabriel revealed to the Prophet the Divine Command as in the Verse 26 of Chapter XVII (17)

"And give unto one who is of Kin (to thee) that which is due”(17:26)

and the Prophet (pbuh) asked as to who was meant as "being of Kin". the Angel named Hazrath Fatimah (sa) and told the Prophet (pbuh) to give Fadak to her (as), as the Income from Fadak belonged wholly to him on account of its being ceded to him without the use of force. the Prophet (pbuh) accordingly bestowed upon Hazrath Fatimah (sa) his estate of Fadak for the subsistence of herself and her children.

With reference to the above Qur’anic Verse, many Sunni commentators have written that:

when the Verse was revealed, the Holy Prophet (Pbuh) asked the Angel Gabriel: "Who are the Kinsmen and what is their due?”The Angel Gibrael replied "Give Fadak to Fatimah for it is her due, and whatever is due to Allah and the Prophet (Pbuh) out of Fadak, that also belongs to her, so entrust to her also."

The above is narrated through al Bazzar, Abu Yala, Ibn Abi Hatim, Ibn Marduwayh and others from Abu Said al Khudri and through Ibn Marduwayh from Abdullah ibn al Abbas for the above verse.

Sunni references:

- Tafsir Durr al-Mansur, v4, p177
- Kanz al-Ummal, v2, p158
- Sawaiq al Muhriqah Chapter 15 p 21-22
- Rozatul Safaa vol 2 p 135
- Sharah e Muwaqif p 735
- Tareekh Ahmadi p45
- Ruh al ma’ani, vol 15 p 62

It leaves no room for us to believe that the Land of Fadak was not the personal belonging of Hazrath Fatimah (sa)!

Historians also write that

Certainly, Abu Bakar (ra) snatched Fadak from Fatimah (sa)

Sunni references:

- Sharah, vol 16 p 219

- Wafa al Wafa (as Samhudi), vol 3 p1000

- Sawaiq al Muhriqah, p 32

If anybody claims that the above story is no where to be found in the hadith books, I would like you to refer to these books, that are termed as authentic and reliable by the Sunni scholars that contains the very event that you have had mentioned.

- Commentary of the Qur’an by Fakhr al-Din al-Razi , v8, p125 (Under the Tafseer of Surah Hashr)
- Sawaiq al-Muhriqah by Ibn Hajar Haythmi, p21

Fatimah (sa) raised a voice when Fadak was stolen from her, protesting to Abu Bakar (ra), she said:

You have taken over possesion of Fadak although the Prophet had gifted it to me during his life time.

On this Abu Bakar (ra) asked her to produce witnesses of the gift. Consequently, Imam ‘Ali (as) and Umm Ayman gave evidence on her favor. Umm Ayman was the freed bond maid and the dry nurse for the Holy Prophet (pbuh), She was the mother of Usamah ibn Zayd ibn al Harith. The Holy Prophet (pbuh) usted to say Umm Ayman is my mother after my mother. The Holy Prophet (pbuh) also bore witness that she is among the people of paradise.

Sunni references:

- al Mustadrak, vol 4 p 63
- History of Tabari, vol 3 p 3460
- al Istiab, vol 4 p 1793
- Usud al Ghabah, vol 5 p 567
- Tabaqat, vol 8 p 192
- al Isabah, vol 4 p 432

My dear brother Hani, all the references I've given you here, are you telling me they have all turned in to Shias or are influenced by Shiaism??? Dear audience/viewers take this in to account, we have Ahle Sunnah authentic books, let me repeat, not just Ahle Sunnah but also labelled authentic by themselves. Now when ever a Shia comes along and provides a reference from these books to back their claim then, one of the following is said:
Either the narration goes under suspicion and doubt or the writer is accused of being influenced by Shiaism. But the book still stays, remains and continues to be labelled authentic. And reference from books are still used by the Ahle Sunnah to back their claims. But when it comes to Shias, suspicion is raised and doubt is cast. Suddenly the writers have turned in to Mutazilla Shias.?? Well I've definitely heard of, know and social with Mutazilla Sunnis but Shias???

[Ameen]

Just got a few minutes before i finish my break.   Brothers Khoursani and Taha, to be a shia is it compulsory not to put (ra) with companions of the Prophet (pbuh) Is it among the Shia principals, rules and regulations that certain companions of the Prophet (pbuh) have to be spoken about and discussed in this particular manner only??? Everybody has their own language, tone and way they want to use when speaking about certain individuals. This is mine. The moderators and certain members of this forum and especially the Haq Char Yaar forum, who are you me or anyone else to decide who is what and who isn't what. Each and every individual knows who and what they are. We can call whp ever we want what ever we want. But calling someone by any particular name or giving someone our desired identity, doesn't make that person become that.

See what we mean when we say that every different Shia person has their own set of beliefs?

Yes, to be a "Shia" is to curse the companions, especially Abu Bakr (ra) - its called Tabarra, or haven't you heard of it?

Different Shia person has their own set of beliefs??? This is where you are wrong by misunderstanding and misconception. Ahle Sunnah Wal Jama'ath are a group of people put together with differences of all kinds, Faith, belief, sect, groups, school of thought and political movement. The Shias are not as such. Their are no groups or sects etc with in Shias. But you can say and must say that different groups and sects call themselves Shias. The two statements are absolutely different and have the opposite meaning. To be Shia you do not have to curse anyone. Cursing is permissible and allowed. And Tabarra, yes I have heard of it. This was done in early Islam during Jamal and Safeen. It was an act that was practiced in Damascus, Syria during the Umayad dynasty. It was made compulsory during friday prayers on and against Hazrath Ali (as). Well that is what is in history. I will provide references.

[Ameen]

اسلام علیکم

They are Ahle Sunnah well known scholars and those are Ahle Sunnah authentic books. Now there is something called research, putting both arguments forward, seeing and looking at things with an open mind etc.

Have you really done your research? Then name the author of the book 'Sharah' and quote Arabic texts for other references. If you can't do that then tell us. Nothing wrong with it.  After all we are humans and make mistake.

You're quoting from a book, don't you know who its author is? I asked you a simple question brother. Answer me as far as this Sunni source called "Sharah".


As for al-Wafa and al-Sawa`iq, I'd like to know WHERE they wrote "Certainly, Abu Bakar (ra) snatched Fadak from Fatimah (sa)."


Can you provide the Arabic texts of these statements? Otherwise, they're unacceptable in this format you presented, and IF it should turn out that they never said such things, then do you prefer to be accused of "Lying" or "Ignorance"?

+1

I am sure you are well capable of looking them up and if they come out to be wrong then you would be quick to bring them forward and clarify the matter. Unacceptable in this format??? Accused of lying or ignorance??? Why don't you look them up then by all means clarify the matter with your big talk. I'm sure the audience/viewers would be keen to see and know.

[Ameen]

Hani,

Is it possible to just create a thread for Ameen, where he can post whatever questions he wants, rather than have him spamming 10 threads?

That would be really nice. But the question is "ARE THE TOP GUNS UP FOR IT???"

[Hani]

Hani,

Is it possible to just create a thread for Ameen, where he can post whatever questions he wants, rather than have him spamming 10 threads?

That won't be very practical haha, I can just imagine : )


As far as this thread we've reached a dead end, when I feel that a person is asking just for the sake of it I lose interest.


He can review the detailed Fadak research on our website: http://twelvershia.net/detailed-research-on-prophetic-inheritance/

[Ameen]

Hani,

Is it possible to just create a thread for Ameen, where he can post whatever questions he wants, rather than have him spamming 10 threads?

That won't be very practical haha, I can just imagine : )


As far as this thread we've reached a dead end, when I feel that a person is asking just for the sake of it I lose interest.


He can review the detailed Fadak research on our website: http://twelvershia.net/detailed-research-on-prophetic-inheritance/

Dear audience/viewers, here you have our beloved brother Hani, the global moderator. He is just not the global moderator but he is also the judge, the jury and the executioner all in one and all by himself. Just what can we say about. Bravo brother Hani and well done. Thank you very much for such a beautiful challenge.

[Hani]

Dear audience/viewers, here you have our beloved brother Hani, the global moderator. He is just not the global moderator but he is also the judge, the jury and the executioner all in one and all by himself. Just what can we say about. Bravo brother Hani and well done. Thank you very much for such a beautiful challenge.

Wait wait... you come here, we welcome you, you ask unqualified questions (according to me) and you want to force me to answer?


I didn't lock the thread, nor did I ban you, nor did I delete your posts, I just said I don't think your questions are of any value so I respectfully refrained from answering them.


Then you conclude I'm judge, jury and executioner???


You think that if your questions posed any threat to the religion or if I thought they'd confuse any Muslim or make him doubt, do you think I'd leave them unanswered? The reason I left them is because they're seriously not worth answering.


So wait for someone else to bother answering or ask something more intelligent.

[Ameen]

Dear audience/viewers, here you have our beloved brother Hani, the global moderator. He is just not the global moderator but he is also the judge, the jury and the executioner all in one and all by himself. Just what can we say about. Bravo brother Hani and well done. Thank you very much for such a beautiful challenge.

Wait wait... you come here, we welcome you, you ask unqualified questions (according to me) and you want to force me to answer?


I didn't lock the thread, nor did I ban you, nor did I delete your posts, I just said I don't think your questions are of any value so I respectfully refrained from answering them.


Then you conclude I'm judge, jury and executioner???


You think that if your questions posed any threat to the religion or if I thought they'd confuse any Muslim or make him doubt, do you think I'd leave them unanswered? The reason I left them is because they're seriously not worth answering.


So wait for someone else to bother answering or ask something more intelligent.

Hold on a minute cowboy, to ban or delete etc, you need a genuine reason to do that, what reason have i given you??? Any principals that i have violated??? Or any rules and regulations that i have broken??? It's your side kicks on Shiachat who issue challenges by your name and on your behalf and you start to and make excuses. I just asked you for references for you to prove your claim, that's all. What's the crime here??? What seems to be the problem??? You can carry on trying to derail the subject and to avoid me with your excuses but the audience/viewers are watching and keep this in mind. You're not doing yourself any favours by behaving in such a manner. If you and other brothers concerned can't answer then, just say so. Don't go beating around the bush.