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The term Rafidah

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Hadrami

Re: The term Rafidah
« Reply #20 on: November 12, 2015, 09:52:39 PM »
belittling, cursing & hating the shahaba is one of the CORE practices & belief of 12er shia. For you to not know this then you must be a quite uninformed & isolated 12er. Where do you live?

I live in Pakistan and yes I do know shias belittle, curse and hate Sahabas. The only thing I am saying is like you I also believe that they are wrong. These people do this kind of things due to ignorance. They don't know what their Prophet (s.a.w.w) and Imams (a.s) said regarding cursing and mocking Sahabas. The thing that I say is to engage with them and preach them so that they avoid cursing, belittling and mocking Sahabas

Very noble aim, however there is a huge problem. Those people you refer to as ignorants are practising it due to the teaching of the giants of shia scholars.

How can you say they were ignorant shias when the group of shias who were in agreement with those practices were the giants of shiaism?

We are talking about scholars whose status in shiaism are probably as important if not higher than imam abu hanifa, malik etc for ahlussunnah.

Do you know according to shia hadith that denying their mahdi is compared to denying nubuwwah of Rasulullah shallallahu alaihi wasallam? That is a blanket takfir, so not just the shahaba but everyone who do not believe in 12er Mahdi, including other shoa sects.

Optimus Prime

Re: The term Rafidah
« Reply #21 on: November 12, 2015, 10:19:33 PM »
Thank you Imam Ali for your answers.

Can you please list those beliefs of Rafidah which makes them out of fold of Islam.

Can anyone please answer my question?

Sure.

- This fundamental belief in Imamat when there's no trace of such a concept in the Qur'an.
- How the Imams are superior to Prophets which, goes against the Qur'an.
- The way Rawafidhs venerate their Imams, and attribute qualities that are beffiting for Allah, which is one of the symptoms of shirk according to many scholars of this Ummah.
- Their belief that the Qur'an is distorted, and how the Mahdi the final Imam will come with the real edition - this also goes against the Qur'an, when Allah has promised to safeguard his sacred text/scripture.
- How they believe all Sahabas with the exception of how a handful all become murtads (astagfirullah), this also goes against the theme in the Qur'an whereby Allah has complimented these very same people (RA), and promised them Jannah.

And, array of other things as well which, don't spring to mind right now.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2015, 10:24:53 PM by Imam Ali »

Khalifa

Re: The term Rafidah
« Reply #22 on: November 12, 2015, 11:15:28 PM »
*I want to clear one point. We Shias are strictly forbidden by our Imams (a.s) to curse or bad-mouth any Sahaba (r.a) or Ummul Momineen Hadhrat Aisha (r.a) & Ummul Momineen Hadrat Hafsa (r.a). I have myself seen narration of Imam (a.s) getting angry and condemning those people who publicly curse Hadhrat Abu Bakr (r.a) and Hadhrat Umar (r.a).

Did Imam Baqir Rh and Imam Jafar Rh forbid to curse Companions? Specially Abu Bakar Ra Umar Ra and Ayesha Ra ?
 

Hani

Re: The term Rafidah
« Reply #23 on: November 12, 2015, 11:46:45 PM »
Salaam Brothers and Sisters.

I have a question regarding the term 'Rafidah.' I know the incident when this term was coined i.e. when Hadhrat Zayd (r.a) bin Ali (a.s) was uprising against Banu Ummayah and he wanted people to aid him against them. But when some people said to him to renounce Sheikhain (First 2 Caliphs) he reject their request and said that they were Rafida.

From what I know (please correct me if I am wrong) following terms are used for following people:

01. Ahlul Sunnah wal Jamaat - People who follow Islam as practiced by Prophet Mohammed (s.a.w.w) and Four Righteous Caliphs (r.a) and Sahabas (r.a)

02. Shia - People who consider imam Ali (a.s) superior to Hadhrat Uthman (r.a)

03. Rafidah - People who consider Imam Ali (a.s) and his Chosen Descendants (a.s) superior to all others including Sheikhan (r.a), Hadhrat Uthman (r.a) and all others.

Now my question is about third group - Rafidah.

01. Are they consider out of the fold of Islam if they consider Imam Ali (a.s) and His Chosen Descendants (a.s) to be superior to all Sahabas?

02. Are there any authentic hadiths or reports which states anyone who considers anyone superior to Hadhrat Abu Bakr (r.a), Hadhrat Umar (r.a) and Hadhrat Uthman (r.a) are to be considered outside the fold of Islam?

03. Lastly, I want to know whether the term Rafidah also applies on the person who considers some other Sahaba to be superior to Hadhrat Abu Bakr (r.a), Hadhrat Umar (r.a) or Hadhrat Usman (r.a)? For e.g. if a person says that Ameer Mauwiya is superior to Hadhrat Umar (r.a)... will that person considered to be Rafidah or not?


Let me add to those terms and give more accurate definitions since your definitions are not accurate:

Ahlul-Sunnah: People who are upon the guidance and authentic teachings of the Prophet (saw). It is a general term with many sub-categories.

Al-Jama`ah: The united body of Muslims who stick together behind one leader and never divide as Allah instructed.

Ahlul-Hadith: A sub-category of Ahlul-Sunnah: People who transmit and preserve the prophetic-traditions and knowledge.

Shi`ah: Followers of a certain leader, such as `Uthman's Shi`ah or `Ali's Shi`ah. It is a very general term with many sub-categories.

Rafidah: A sub-category of Shi`ah: Those who reject the leadership of Abu Bakr and `Umar and all that it entails from cursing or hatred.

Now let's try answering your questions:

01- Considering `Ali as the greatest Sahabi does not take you out of the fold of Islam but you would be opposing `Ali as he did not view himself as the greatest Sahabi. Considering his descendants better than all Sahabah would not take you out of the fold of Islam but it shows ignorance of Allah's book where the Sahabah are praised and it shows ignorance about the Sunnah since Rasul-Allah (saw) excessively praised his Sahabah so placing some random folks who came after them above all of them is an act of ignorance.

02- No such narration exists. However, there are verses and narrations showing their great piety and high rank as believers and as Sahabah so placing a non-Sahabi above them is an act of ignorance.

03- Rafidah is a term unrelated to superiority. It is about rejecting the leadership of the first two Imams of the Muslims and whatever that entails of cursing or hatred.
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

Hani

Re: The term Rafidah
« Reply #24 on: November 12, 2015, 11:49:49 PM »
*I want to clear one point. We Shias are strictly forbidden by our Imams (a.s) to curse or bad-mouth any Sahaba (r.a) or Ummul Momineen Hadhrat Aisha (r.a) & Ummul Momineen Hadrat Hafsa (r.a). I have myself seen narration of Imam (a.s) getting angry and condemning those people who publicly curse Hadhrat Abu Bakr (r.a) and Hadhrat Umar (r.a).

Did Imam Baqir Rh and Imam Jafar Rh forbid to curse Companions? Specially Abu Bakar Ra Umar Ra and Ayesha Ra ?
 

They themselves cursed them in Shia books.

Here you can download a book with thousands of narrations of Shia Imams and scholars cursing and insulting the Sahabah:
http://www.fnoor.com/main/articles.aspx?article_no=7742#.VkT7E3arS00
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

Khalifa

Re: The term Rafidah
« Reply #25 on: November 14, 2015, 10:03:29 PM »
*I want to clear one point. We Shias are strictly forbidden by our Imams (a.s) to curse or bad-mouth any Sahaba (r.a) or Ummul Momineen Hadhrat Aisha (r.a) & Ummul Momineen Hadrat Hafsa (r.a). I have myself seen narration of Imam (a.s) getting angry and condemning those people who publicly curse Hadhrat Abu Bakr (r.a) and Hadhrat Umar (r.a).

Did Imam Baqir Rh and Imam Jafar Rh forbid to curse Companions? Specially Abu Bakar Ra Umar Ra and Ayesha Ra ?
 

They themselves cursed them in Shia books.

Here you can download a book with thousands of narrations of Shia Imams and scholars cursing and insulting the Sahabah:
http://www.fnoor.com/main/articles.aspx?article_no=7742#.VkT7E3arS00

yes brother  because they consider Abu bakar R.a , Umar R.a and Sahabah  are the  enemies of Ahl Bait. I am amazed how he is trying to deny Cursing which is like a Worship and base of  Shia religion. 

Khalifa

Re: The term Rafidah
« Reply #26 on: November 14, 2015, 10:35:45 PM »
I have myself seen narration of Imam (a.s) getting angry and condemning those people who publicly curse Hadhrat Abu Bakr (r.a) and Hadhrat Umar (r.a).

yes Shia scholars also says that you should curse in private gathering and avoid cursing Publicly
 
thats why Imam got angry with those who were not practicing Taqqiya and openly cursing in public   
« Last Edit: November 14, 2015, 10:37:48 PM by Khalifa »

Ijtaba

Re: The term Rafidah
« Reply #27 on: November 18, 2015, 11:49:56 PM »
Hadrami wrote:

"Very noble aim, however there is a huge problem. Those people you refer to as ignorants are practising it due to the teaching of the giants of shia scholars.

How can you say they were ignorant shias when the group of shias who were in agreement with those practices were the giants of shiaism?

We are talking about scholars whose status in shiaism are probably as important if not higher than imam abu hanifa, malik etc for ahlussunnah."

Sorry for my ignorance of not knowing those Shia giant scholars. However I did like for you to list their names or if possible give me internet website link stating their names so that I may research into this topic and thereby increase my knowledge.

Now coming to your question I did like to clear one thing that for us Shias.. Holy Prophet (s.a.w.w), 12 Imams (a.s) and Holy Quran are Authority. If any Giant Shia Scholar(s) says something contradictory to Holy Prophet (s.a.w.w), 12 Imams (a.s) and Holy Quran then we would reject their saying.

Hadrami wrote:

"Do you know according to shia hadith that denying their mahdi is compared to denying nubuwwah of Rasulullah shallallahu alaihi wasallam? That is a blanket takfir, so not just the shahaba but everyone who do not believe in 12er Mahdi, including other shoa sects."

Not knowing about Imam Mehdi (a.s) is different than Denying Imam Mehdi (a.s). Even Sunnis believe in the End of times there will be Imam of Muslims with the name of Mehdi (a.s). There is ahadith which most Shias use whenever asked this question. The ahadith states that anyone who dies without knowing Imam of his time is as if he/she died in the age of ignorance. About the authenticity of this ahadith I don't know so I would like someone to enlighten us about authenticity of this ahadith.

Imam Ali wrote:

"- This fundamental belief in Imamat when there's no trace of such a concept in the Qur'an."

Before answering your above question and remaining questions I want to clear one thing and that is my answers are my views and it is not necessary that every Shi'a would agree with me. So what I write is what I believe to be true which may or may not be correct.

Now coming to your question on Imamat in Quran. There are some verses in Quran which indicate about the concept of Imamat such as Nabi Ibrahim (a.s) becoming Imam for Humans, Nabi Ibrahim (a.s) praying Imamate to continue in his (a.s) descendants, Imams being made in Children of Israel, Du'a in which a pray is being made to make the person who is praying Imam ul Muttaqin. Similarly Pharaohs are called Imams inviting to hell.

Imam Ali wrote:

"- How the Imams are superior to Prophets which, goes against the Qur'an."

12 Imams (a.s) are considered superior to Prophets (a.s) other than Prophet Mohammed (s.a.w.w) by Shias because they believe that Prophet Mohammed (s.a.w.w) is Leader of All Prophets (a.s) so his (s.a.w.w) Children (a.s) would also be superior to all Prophets (a.s) like Prophet Mohammed (s.a.w.w) said that his (s.a.w.w) daughter Hadhrat Fatima (s.a) is Syeda tun-Nisa al-Alameen and his Grandchildren (a.s) are Leaders of the Youth of Paradise. And Prophet (s.a.w.w) loved his Children (a.s) and Grandchildren (a.s) to such an extent that he (s.a.w.w) said that they are his (s.a.w.w) part and hurting them (a.s) is to hurt him (s.a.w.w).

Imam Ali wrote:

"- The way Rawafidhs venerate their Imams, and attribute qualities that are beffiting for Allah, which is one of the symptoms of shirk according to many scholars of this Ummah."

Please do list those attributes so that I may know them.

Imam Ali wrote:

"- Their belief that the Qur'an is distorted, and how the Mahdi the final Imam will come with the real edition - this also goes against the Qur'an, when Allah has promised to safeguard his sacred text/scripture."

It is true that we believe Imam Ali (a.s) also had Al-Quran which is same as the Al-Quran which is in our hands today. Only the thing is that the Quran of Imam Ali (a.s) has interpretation of each verse as well as the time of its revelation and the purpose of its revelation. You may disagree with this view but its not a problem because Al-Quran is same whether Quran of Imam Ali (a.s) or Quran in hands of Muslims today. Its like Hadhrat Abdullah Ibn Masud (r.a) having his Quran which again is same as Qur'an which is in Muslims hands today.

Imam Ali wrote:
"- How they believe all Sahabas with the exception of how a handful all become murtads (astagfirullah), this also goes against the theme in the Qur'an whereby Allah has complimented these very same people (RA), and promised them Jannah."

We believe that they had to chose Imam Ali (a.s) as Khalifah of Rasullah (s.a.w.w) based on Event of Ghadeer. But not selecting him (a.s) didn't make them apostates. If such was the case then Imam Ali (a.s), Imam Hassan (a.s) and Imam Hussain (a.s) would had considered them Non-Muslims but as one can clearly see that such was not the case. Sahabas (r.a) were Muslims and not Apostates.

Imam Ali wrote:

"And, array of other things as well which, don't spring to mind right now."

Do let me know so that I may research about them.

Ijtaba

Re: The term Rafidah
« Reply #28 on: November 18, 2015, 11:53:46 PM »
Salaam Brothers and Sisters.

I have a question regarding the term 'Rafidah.' I know the incident when this term was coined i.e. when Hadhrat Zayd (r.a) bin Ali (a.s) was uprising against Banu Ummayah and he wanted people to aid him against them. But when some people said to him to renounce Sheikhain (First 2 Caliphs) he reject their request and said that they were Rafida.

From what I know (please correct me if I am wrong) following terms are used for following people:

01. Ahlul Sunnah wal Jamaat - People who follow Islam as practiced by Prophet Mohammed (s.a.w.w) and Four Righteous Caliphs (r.a) and Sahabas (r.a)

02. Shia - People who consider imam Ali (a.s) superior to Hadhrat Uthman (r.a)

03. Rafidah - People who consider Imam Ali (a.s) and his Chosen Descendants (a.s) superior to all others including Sheikhan (r.a), Hadhrat Uthman (r.a) and all others.

Now my question is about third group - Rafidah.

01. Are they consider out of the fold of Islam if they consider Imam Ali (a.s) and His Chosen Descendants (a.s) to be superior to all Sahabas?

02. Are there any authentic hadiths or reports which states anyone who considers anyone superior to Hadhrat Abu Bakr (r.a), Hadhrat Umar (r.a) and Hadhrat Uthman (r.a) are to be considered outside the fold of Islam?

03. Lastly, I want to know whether the term Rafidah also applies on the person who considers some other Sahaba to be superior to Hadhrat Abu Bakr (r.a), Hadhrat Umar (r.a) or Hadhrat Usman (r.a)? For e.g. if a person says that Ameer Mauwiya is superior to Hadhrat Umar (r.a)... will that person considered to be Rafidah or not?


Let me add to those terms and give more accurate definitions since your definitions are not accurate:

Ahlul-Sunnah: People who are upon the guidance and authentic teachings of the Prophet (saw). It is a general term with many sub-categories.

Al-Jama`ah: The united body of Muslims who stick together behind one leader and never divide as Allah instructed.

Ahlul-Hadith: A sub-category of Ahlul-Sunnah: People who transmit and preserve the prophetic-traditions and knowledge.

Shi`ah: Followers of a certain leader, such as `Uthman's Shi`ah or `Ali's Shi`ah. It is a very general term with many sub-categories.

Rafidah: A sub-category of Shi`ah: Those who reject the leadership of Abu Bakr and `Umar and all that it entails from cursing or hatred.

Now let's try answering your questions:

01- Considering `Ali as the greatest Sahabi does not take you out of the fold of Islam but you would be opposing `Ali as he did not view himself as the greatest Sahabi. Considering his descendants better than all Sahabah would not take you out of the fold of Islam but it shows ignorance of Allah's book where the Sahabah are praised and it shows ignorance about the Sunnah since Rasul-Allah (saw) excessively praised his Sahabah so placing some random folks who came after them above all of them is an act of ignorance.

02- No such narration exists. However, there are verses and narrations showing their great piety and high rank as believers and as Sahabah so placing a non-Sahabi above them is an act of ignorance.

03- Rafidah is a term unrelated to superiority. It is about rejecting the leadership of the first two Imams of the Muslims and whatever that entails of cursing or hatred.

Thanks Hani for your answers.

Ijtaba

Re: The term Rafidah
« Reply #29 on: November 18, 2015, 11:58:10 PM »
*I want to clear one point. We Shias are strictly forbidden by our Imams (a.s) to curse or bad-mouth any Sahaba (r.a) or Ummul Momineen Hadhrat Aisha (r.a) & Ummul Momineen Hadrat Hafsa (r.a). I have myself seen narration of Imam (a.s) getting angry and condemning those people who publicly curse Hadhrat Abu Bakr (r.a) and Hadhrat Umar (r.a).

Did Imam Baqir Rh and Imam Jafar Rh forbid to curse Companions? Specially Abu Bakar Ra Umar Ra and Ayesha Ra ?
 

They themselves cursed them in Shia books.

Here you can download a book with thousands of narrations of Shia Imams and scholars cursing and insulting the Sahabah:
http://www.fnoor.com/main/articles.aspx?article_no=7742#.VkT7E3arS00

Can you provide English translation of this book so that I may also be able to read it.

Hani

Re: The term Rafidah
« Reply #30 on: November 19, 2015, 12:07:32 AM »

Can you provide English translation of this book so that I may also be able to read it.

That's a huge book bro, I can't possibly translate it all (That requires weeks). I can give you samples though.

For example, the leading scholar of the Shia of Iran and the father of modern-day Twelver Shiasm, Muhammad Baqir al-Majlisi (d.1111 AH) says in his book "Bihar al-Anwar" 38/253:

[Most of the Sahabah (Companions) are stubborn hypocrites.]

That's a sample of this 1,600 page book which doesn't even cover most of the Shia literature.

If you need more examples, just ask, the more you ask the more you get, I have an infinite supply literally since Shia scholars curse and insult Sahabah like they drink water.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2015, 12:09:11 AM by Hani »
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

Ijtaba

Re: The term Rafidah
« Reply #31 on: November 19, 2015, 12:16:16 AM »
I have myself seen narration of Imam (a.s) getting angry and condemning those people who publicly curse Hadhrat Abu Bakr (r.a) and Hadhrat Umar (r.a).

yes Shia scholars also says that you should curse in private gathering and avoid cursing Publicly
 
thats why Imam got angry with those who were not practicing Taqqiya and openly cursing in public   

Are you saying that Imam (a.s) use to curse Sahabas (r.a) privately?

I have a question for everyone in this forum?

Q. Are hadiths encourging Cursing of Sahabas (r.a) in Shia books falsely attributed to Imam Baqir (a.s) and Imam Sadiq (a.s) OR Did Imam Ali (a.s), Imam Hassan (a.s), Imam Hussain (a.s) and Imams till Imam Hassan Askari (a.s) really curse Sahabas (r.a) privately or encouraged their followers to curse Sahabas (r.a) privately?

Ijtaba

Re: The term Rafidah
« Reply #32 on: November 19, 2015, 12:20:47 AM »

Can you provide English translation of this book so that I may also be able to read it.

That's a huge book bro, I can't possibly translate it all (That requires weeks). I can give you samples though.

For example, the leading scholar of the Shia of Iran and the father of modern-day Twelver Shiasm, Muhammad Baqir al-Majlisi (d.1111 AH) says in his book "Bihar al-Anwar" 38/253:

[Most of the Sahabah (Companions) are stubborn hypocrites.]

That's a sample of this 1,600 page book which doesn't even cover most of the Shia literature.

If you need more examples, just ask, the more you ask the more you get, I have an infinite supply literally since Shia scholars curse and insult Sahabah like they drink water.

Thanks Hani for your reply. I will start a new thread on this topic because I feel that this topic is really important to understand about Shiism and the harm Cursing Sahabas (r.a) is causing in Muslim Ummah

Hani

Re: The term Rafidah
« Reply #33 on: November 19, 2015, 12:48:44 AM »

Are you saying that Imam (a.s) use to curse Sahabas (r.a) privately?

I have a question for everyone in this forum?

Q. Are hadiths encourging Cursing of Sahabas (r.a) in Shia books falsely attributed to Imam Baqir (a.s) and Imam Sadiq (a.s) OR Did Imam Ali (a.s), Imam Hassan (a.s), Imam Hussain (a.s) and Imams till Imam Hassan Askari (a.s) really curse Sahabas (r.a) privately or encouraged their followers to curse Sahabas (r.a) privately?


Yes they are falsely attributed to Ahlul-Bayt. The household of the Prophet (saw) had great respect for Rasul-Allah (saw) and his Companions. They constantly praised them and rebuked those who hated them.

On the other hand, Twelver Shia kept fabricating narrations in their books about the Imams cursing everybody and so they have a very negative view of the entire nation.

Let me get you another quote by the leading scholar of the Shia of Iran and the father of modern-day Twelver Shiasm, Muhammad Baqir al-Majlisi (d.1111 AH) who says in his book "Bihar al-Anwar" 28/36:

[The Imami Shia believe that they -The Sahabah- are regular people, they can be hypocrites, wicked sinners and misguided ones, rather most of them are that.]

Note: When he says "most", he really means everybody except a handful, seven or eight.
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

Ijtaba

Re: The term Rafidah
« Reply #34 on: November 19, 2015, 01:07:25 AM »

Are you saying that Imam (a.s) use to curse Sahabas (r.a) privately?

I have a question for everyone in this forum?

Q. Are hadiths encourging Cursing of Sahabas (r.a) in Shia books falsely attributed to Imam Baqir (a.s) and Imam Sadiq (a.s) OR Did Imam Ali (a.s), Imam Hassan (a.s), Imam Hussain (a.s) and Imams till Imam Hassan Askari (a.s) really curse Sahabas (r.a) privately or encouraged their followers to curse Sahabas (r.a) privately?


Yes they are falsely attributed to Ahlul-Bayt. The household of the Prophet (saw) had great respect for Rasul-Allah (saw) and his Companions. They constantly praised them and rebuked those who hated them.

On the other hand, Twelver Shia kept fabricating narrations in their books about the Imams cursing everybody and so they have a very negative view of the entire nation.

Let me get you another quote by the leading scholar of the Shia of Iran and the father of modern-day Twelver Shiasm, Muhammad Baqir al-Majlisi (d.1111 AH) who says in his book "Bihar al-Anwar" 28/36:

[The Imami Shia believe that they -The Sahabah- are regular people, they can be hypocrites, wicked sinners and misguided ones, rather most of them are that.]

Note: When he says "most", he really means everybody except a handful, seven or eight.

Thank you Hani for clearing my confusion.

This is what I have been trying to tell everyone. Our Imams (a.s) never cursed any Sahaba (r.a) nor encouraged anyone to curse them either publicly nor privately.

If Majlisi, Kulayni, Mufid, Ayatollah udma Sistani or Khomeini says otherwise then they are not to be followed because they are going against the orders of our Imams (a.s)

If Jews follow Rabbis instead of Prophets (a.s) of Bani Israel then Jews are wrong and not Prophets (a.s). Similarly if Christians worship Trinity this doesn't mean Jesus told them to worship Trinity.

You have to differentiate what the Imams (a.s) said or did from what their so-called followers are saying or doing.

Bolani Muslim

Re: The term Rafidah
« Reply #35 on: November 19, 2015, 01:14:14 AM »
O Allah! Curse the two idols of Quraish (Abu Bakr and Omar) and their two magicians, their two rebellious people, their two accusers and their two daughters (Aisha and Hafsa). Rebuke them, they have consumed Your sustenance and have denied Your obligations, both have discarded Your commands, have rejected Your revelation, have disobeyed Your Prophet, have destroyed Your religion, have distorted Your book, have made Your laws ineffective, have declared Your obligatory actions as incorrect, have disbelieved in Your signs, have oppressed Your friends, have loved Your enemies, have spread corruption among Your people, have made Your world occur loses.
O Allah! Send Your curses on them and their helpers as they have ruined the house of Your prophet, have dug the door of his house, broken the roof, have brought down the walls, have made the skies, the ground, have destroyed its inhabitants, have killed their supporters have put to death, their children have deserted his pulpit by his successors of knowledge, have desired his prophet hood, have ascribed a partner to their Lord, thus consider both of their sins to be great, and make their abode in 'saqar' forever, and do you know what is 'saqar?'
It leaves nothing, nor let anything remain. O Allah, send Your chastisement on them to the extent of the sins of every disobedient, and the covering of truth, and all the pupils where they have gone, and the believer whom they have harmed and the disbeliever whom they have loved,
and to the number of pious people whom they have troubled, and whom they have driven out of their cities, and helped the disbelievers, and the Imam on whom they were cruel and have changed the obligatory laws, and have destroyed the practice of the Holy Prophet, and whatever evils they have concealed, the blood which they shed, have changed the goodness and have altered the commands, have created disbelief, or the lie for which they have cheated, the inheritance which they have plundered, and stopped the booties from them and have consumed the prohibited wealth,
and that 'Khums' (the fifth part) which they considered as permitted for them, and that evil whose foundation were put, and that cruelty which they made common, that oppression, which they spread, those promises, which they dishonored, those covenant which they broke, those lawful which is termed as unlawful, and that unlawful which is termed as lawful,
that hypocrisy which they have concealed in the hearts, and to the amount of treachery which they bore in their hearts, and those stomach which they have split open, and that 'pahlu' which they broke, and that door which they broke-opened, and those gatherings which they dispersed and those degraded whom they gave honor, and those honourable whom they insulted,
and by the number of rights which they have usurped, and the order of Imam which they opposed, bestow Your wrath on them to the extent of the atrocities.
O Allah! Your curses on them to the extent of alteration in Quran and covering the truth, rendering the will, worthless, and breaking the promises, and declaring all the claims as void, refusing all the allegiances, presenting excuses, introducing breach of trust, climbing of hills and to the nuer of vessel which they turned upside down and all that defects which they possessed. Bestow Your curses on them.
O Allah curse those two, secretly and openly, such a beating which is forever continuous, nonstop and innumerable. Such a whipping which commences in the morning but does not ends at night.
Such a beating should be on those tyrants, and their helpers, their assistance, their friends and their lovers, those attracted to them and those who acknowledge their deeds, those who present proof for them, and those who follow their words, and those who approve their actions.
(Then recite four times).
O Allah! Send such a harsh chastisement upon them, that the dwellers of Hell start screaming, O Lord of the Universe accept this prayer from me.
http://www.duas.org/alaviya/dua-120.htm

I swear to Allahazwj who owns the lives of Mohammad saww and Ali as, whosoever would recite this prayer will get an extraordinary reward from the Lord; similar to assisting Prophet Mohammad saww during the battles of ‘Ohad, Badar, Hunain and Tabuuq’ and would achieve the martyred status in the presence of the Prophet saww. And the reward of 100 Hajj and Umara as an associate of Prophet Mohammad saww as well as ‘Sawab’ of 1000 months of fasting. In addition, one will be on the side of Rasool-Allah saww and Aimah Masomeen asws on the Day of Judgement and Allah will forgive all his/her sins, despite the fact if his/her had committed sins are equivalent to the stars in the sky, grains of sand in the wilderness and leaves of all trees. Also the one who recites it will be saved from punishment in the grave, and a window from heaven will be installed in his/her grave.


Extremely Authentic Shia dua (keep in mind that Shias base their hadith grading and religion on emotion, not logic or chain) that Shias read EVERY THURSDAY called Ziyarat Ashura, I'll only post the important parts!

So, may Allah curse the people who laid the basis of persecution and wronging against you (Abu Bakr, Umar, Osman, nearly all Sahaba), O Members of the Household.

May Allah condemn and damn the NATION who laid the basis and set up the groundwork, to wander astray and turn aside from not only you and your family but to take liberties and bear hard upon you.

May Allah condemn and damn the NATION who tried to obscure and deny your office and status, willfully neglected your rank and class Allah had made know in clear terms. May Allah condemn and damn the NATION who killed you (Ahlul Sunnah).

May Allah condemn and damn the NATION who instigated and had a part in your murder. I turn to you and Allah, away from them, their henchmen, their followers and their friends,

May Allah condemn and damn the tribe of Umayyah, one and all, altogether (Condemns Usman and the other good Ummayads);


Then again say 100 times:

O my Allah condemn and damn the first tyrant (Abu Bakr)who unjustly and wrongfully usurped that which rightly belonged to Mohammad and the children of Mohammad, and bring curse upon those who, after him, followed in his footsteps.

O my Allah condemn and damn those conspirators who vexed and harassed Husayn, showed eagerness, agreed mutually, and joined hands to kill him. O my Allah bring curse upon all of them.

(you may even recite only " O my Allah bring curse upon all of them". 100 times)


Then say:

O my Allah, let the curse I call down on the head of the first tyrant (Abu Bakr) stick like a leech; and stay put for ever on the first, then the second (Umar), the third (Osman( and the fourth (Muawiyah).

O my Allah damn and call down evil on the fifth, Yazid son of Mua'awyah,

Notice the water down in translation on the Shia site run by Pakis (close enough though).
http://islamic-forum.net/index.php?showtopic=17331
http://www.duas.org/ashura/z_ashura.htm


How many marjas have said not to read these?
« Last Edit: November 19, 2015, 01:16:53 AM by Bolani Muslim »

Furkan

Re: The term Rafidah
« Reply #36 on: November 19, 2015, 02:04:39 AM »
Ijtaba, how do you conclude as a shia that according to shiism, the imams never cursed the sahaba?
« Last Edit: November 19, 2015, 02:06:13 AM by Furkan »
Before Qazî Mihemed, President of the first kurdish Republic Mahabad was hanged the iranian judge asked:

“last words?”

Qazî: “I thank Allah: even in death he put my shoes above your heads”

Hani

Re: The term Rafidah
« Reply #37 on: November 19, 2015, 02:38:20 AM »

If Jews follow Rabbis instead of Prophets (a.s) of Bani Israel then Jews are wrong and not Prophets (a.s). Similarly if Christians worship Trinity this doesn't mean Jesus told them to worship Trinity.

You have to differentiate what the Imams (a.s) said or did from what their so-called followers are saying or doing.

Majlisi, Mufid, Khomayni etc... think they are correct, because they follow the narrations of the Imams found in the Shia books, and in those books the Imams are constantly cursing and abusing the Sahabah as well as the rest of the nation.

The issue is with the Twelver Shia books of Hadith, these books are unreliable and contain many forgeries and fabrications. They do not represent the authentic teachings of Ahlul-Bayt.
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

Rationalist

Re: The term Rafidah
« Reply #38 on: November 19, 2015, 04:21:26 AM »

If Majlisi, Kulayni, Mufid, Ayatollah udma Sistani or Khomeini says otherwise then they are not to be followed because they are going against the orders of our Imams (a.s)
So if Majilsi, Majlisi, Kulayni, Mufid, Tusi, Sharif Razi and Murtaza, Saduq tell you there are only 12 Imams they are correct, but when they provide ahadith which supplicates against Abi Bakr and Umar they are wrong? How does that work?
Quote
You have to differentiate what the Imams (a.s) said or did from what their so-called followers are saying or doing.
How do you do that? For example I don't think the imams said there are only 12 Imams.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2015, 04:22:57 AM by Rationalist »

Ijtaba

Re: The term Rafidah
« Reply #39 on: November 21, 2015, 10:06:40 AM »
O Allah! Curse the two idols of Quraish (Abu Bakr and Omar) and their two magicians, their two rebellious people, their two accusers and their two daughters (Aisha and Hafsa). Rebuke them, they have consumed Your sustenance and have denied Your obligations, both have discarded Your commands, have rejected Your revelation, have disobeyed Your Prophet, have destroyed Your religion, have distorted Your book, have made Your laws ineffective, have declared Your obligatory actions as incorrect, have disbelieved in Your signs, have oppressed Your friends, have loved Your enemies, have spread corruption among Your people, have made Your world occur loses.
O Allah! Send Your curses on them and their helpers as they have ruined the house of Your prophet, have dug the door of his house, broken the roof, have brought down the walls, have made the skies, the ground, have destroyed its inhabitants, have killed their supporters have put to death, their children have deserted his pulpit by his successors of knowledge, have desired his prophet hood, have ascribed a partner to their Lord, thus consider both of their sins to be great, and make their abode in 'saqar' forever, and do you know what is 'saqar?'
It leaves nothing, nor let anything remain. O Allah, send Your chastisement on them to the extent of the sins of every disobedient, and the covering of truth, and all the pupils where they have gone, and the believer whom they have harmed and the disbeliever whom they have loved,
and to the number of pious people whom they have troubled, and whom they have driven out of their cities, and helped the disbelievers, and the Imam on whom they were cruel and have changed the obligatory laws, and have destroyed the practice of the Holy Prophet, and whatever evils they have concealed, the blood which they shed, have changed the goodness and have altered the commands, have created disbelief, or the lie for which they have cheated, the inheritance which they have plundered, and stopped the booties from them and have consumed the prohibited wealth,
and that 'Khums' (the fifth part) which they considered as permitted for them, and that evil whose foundation were put, and that cruelty which they made common, that oppression, which they spread, those promises, which they dishonored, those covenant which they broke, those lawful which is termed as unlawful, and that unlawful which is termed as lawful,
that hypocrisy which they have concealed in the hearts, and to the amount of treachery which they bore in their hearts, and those stomach which they have split open, and that 'pahlu' which they broke, and that door which they broke-opened, and those gatherings which they dispersed and those degraded whom they gave honor, and those honourable whom they insulted,
and by the number of rights which they have usurped, and the order of Imam which they opposed, bestow Your wrath on them to the extent of the atrocities.
O Allah! Your curses on them to the extent of alteration in Quran and covering the truth, rendering the will, worthless, and breaking the promises, and declaring all the claims as void, refusing all the allegiances, presenting excuses, introducing breach of trust, climbing of hills and to the nuer of vessel which they turned upside down and all that defects which they possessed. Bestow Your curses on them.
O Allah curse those two, secretly and openly, such a beating which is forever continuous, nonstop and innumerable. Such a whipping which commences in the morning but does not ends at night.
Such a beating should be on those tyrants, and their helpers, their assistance, their friends and their lovers, those attracted to them and those who acknowledge their deeds, those who present proof for them, and those who follow their words, and those who approve their actions.
(Then recite four times).
O Allah! Send such a harsh chastisement upon them, that the dwellers of Hell start screaming, O Lord of the Universe accept this prayer from me.
http://www.duas.org/alaviya/dua-120.htm

I swear to Allahazwj who owns the lives of Mohammad saww and Ali as, whosoever would recite this prayer will get an extraordinary reward from the Lord; similar to assisting Prophet Mohammad saww during the battles of ‘Ohad, Badar, Hunain and Tabuuq’ and would achieve the martyred status in the presence of the Prophet saww. And the reward of 100 Hajj and Umara as an associate of Prophet Mohammad saww as well as ‘Sawab’ of 1000 months of fasting. In addition, one will be on the side of Rasool-Allah saww and Aimah Masomeen asws on the Day of Judgement and Allah will forgive all his/her sins, despite the fact if his/her had committed sins are equivalent to the stars in the sky, grains of sand in the wilderness and leaves of all trees. Also the one who recites it will be saved from punishment in the grave, and a window from heaven will be installed in his/her grave.


Extremely Authentic Shia dua (keep in mind that Shias base their hadith grading and religion on emotion, not logic or chain) that Shias read EVERY THURSDAY called Ziyarat Ashura, I'll only post the important parts!

So, may Allah curse the people who laid the basis of persecution and wronging against you (Abu Bakr, Umar, Osman, nearly all Sahaba), O Members of the Household.

May Allah condemn and damn the NATION who laid the basis and set up the groundwork, to wander astray and turn aside from not only you and your family but to take liberties and bear hard upon you.

May Allah condemn and damn the NATION who tried to obscure and deny your office and status, willfully neglected your rank and class Allah had made know in clear terms. May Allah condemn and damn the NATION who killed you (Ahlul Sunnah).

May Allah condemn and damn the NATION who instigated and had a part in your murder. I turn to you and Allah, away from them, their henchmen, their followers and their friends,

May Allah condemn and damn the tribe of Umayyah, one and all, altogether (Condemns Usman and the other good Ummayads);


Then again say 100 times:

O my Allah condemn and damn the first tyrant (Abu Bakr)who unjustly and wrongfully usurped that which rightly belonged to Mohammad and the children of Mohammad, and bring curse upon those who, after him, followed in his footsteps.

O my Allah condemn and damn those conspirators who vexed and harassed Husayn, showed eagerness, agreed mutually, and joined hands to kill him. O my Allah bring curse upon all of them.

(you may even recite only " O my Allah bring curse upon all of them". 100 times)


Then say:

O my Allah, let the curse I call down on the head of the first tyrant (Abu Bakr) stick like a leech; and stay put for ever on the first, then the second (Umar), the third (Osman( and the fourth (Muawiyah).

O my Allah damn and call down evil on the fifth, Yazid son of Mua'awyah,

Notice the water down in translation on the Shia site run by Pakis (close enough though).
http://islamic-forum.net/index.php?showtopic=17331
http://www.duas.org/ashura/z_ashura.htm


How many marjas have said not to read these?

As you yourself said that above mentioned narration is considered authentic based on emotion and not on chain. So I won't consider it authentic narration. Authentic narration should have good chain which would prove its authenticity.

 

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