TwelverShia.net Forum

The term Rafidah

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Ijtaba

The term Rafidah
« on: November 11, 2015, 06:24:37 PM »
Salaam Brothers and Sisters.

I have a question regarding the term 'Rafidah.' I know the incident when this term was coined i.e. when Hadhrat Zayd (r.a) bin Ali (a.s) was uprising against Banu Ummayah and he wanted people to aid him against them. But when some people said to him to renounce Sheikhain (First 2 Caliphs) he reject their request and said that they were Rafida.

From what I know (please correct me if I am wrong) following terms are used for following people:

01. Ahlul Sunnah wal Jamaat - People who follow Islam as practiced by Prophet Mohammed (s.a.w.w) and Four Righteous Caliphs (r.a) and Sahabas (r.a)

02. Shia - People who consider imam Ali (a.s) superior to Hadhrat Uthman (r.a)

03. Rafidah - People who consider Imam Ali (a.s) and his Chosen Descendants (a.s) superior to all others including Sheikhan (r.a), Hadhrat Uthman (r.a) and all others.

Now my question is about third group - Rafidah.

01. Are they consider out of the fold of Islam if they consider Imam Ali (a.s) and His Chosen Descendants (a.s) to be superior to all Sahabas?

02. Are there any authentic hadiths or reports which states anyone who considers anyone superior to Hadhrat Abu Bakr (r.a), Hadhrat Umar (r.a) and Hadhrat Uthman (r.a) are to be considered outside the fold of Islam?

03. Lastly, I want to know whether the term Rafidah also applies on the person who considers some other Sahaba to be superior to Hadhrat Abu Bakr (r.a), Hadhrat Umar (r.a) or Hadhrat Usman (r.a)? For e.g. if a person says that Ameer Mauwiya is superior to Hadhrat Umar (r.a)... will that person considered to be Rafidah or not?

Optimus Prime

Re: The term Rafidah
« Reply #1 on: November 11, 2015, 08:26:05 PM »
1) No, but they're considered out of the fold of Islam based on their other beliefs by many classical and contemporary scholars.

2) No.

3) No, the individual will be considered confused, that's all, but if he considers Ali (RA) superior to Abu Bakr (RA), Umar (RA), and Uthman (RA) he'll regarded as a semi-Rawafidh who's been infected with Shia germs and symptoms.

Ijtaba

Re: The term Rafidah
« Reply #2 on: November 11, 2015, 09:45:31 PM »
Thank you Imam Ali for your answers.

Can you please list those beliefs of Rafidah which makes them out of fold of Islam.

*I want to clear one point. We Shias are strictly forbidden by our Imams (a.s) to curse or bad-mouth any Sahaba (r.a) or Ummul Momineen Hadhrat Aisha (r.a) & Ummul Momineen Hadrat Hafsa (r.a). I have myself seen narration of Imam (a.s) getting angry and condemning those people who publicly curse Hadhrat Abu Bakr (r.a) and Hadhrat Umar (r.a).

If you see Shias cursing or abusing then they are doing due to ignorance. No Imam (a.s) has given us any order to abuse or curse Sahabas (r.a). Those Shias who abuse or curse do so on their own accord. I also condemn such Shias.

Ibn Yahya

Re: The term Rafidah
« Reply #3 on: November 11, 2015, 09:58:36 PM »
Thank you Imam Ali for your answers.

Can you please list those beliefs of Rafidah which makes them out of fold of Islam.

*I want to clear one point. We Shias are strictly forbidden by our Imams (a.s) to curse or bad-mouth any Sahaba (r.a) or Ummul Momineen Hadhrat Aisha (r.a) & Ummul Momineen Hadrat Hafsa (r.a). I have myself seen narration of Imam (a.s) getting angry and condemning those people who publicly curse Hadhrat Abu Bakr (r.a) and Hadhrat Umar (r.a).

If you see Shias cursing or abusing then they are doing due to ignorance. No Imam (a.s) has given us any order to abuse or curse Sahabas (r.a). Those Shias who abuse or curse do so on their own accord. I also condemn such Shias.


as much as I wish that statement was true. It's quite contradictory to Shi'ah beliefs. There are many narrations abusing the Sahabah and 'A'isha. I can give a few if you want?

Khaled

Re: The term Rafidah
« Reply #4 on: November 11, 2015, 10:07:52 PM »
Thank you Imam Ali for your answers.

Can you please list those beliefs of Rafidah which makes them out of fold of Islam.

*I want to clear one point. We Shias are strictly forbidden by our Imams (a.s) to curse or bad-mouth any Sahaba (r.a) or Ummul Momineen Hadhrat Aisha (r.a) & Ummul Momineen Hadrat Hafsa (r.a). I have myself seen narration of Imam (a.s) getting angry and condemning those people who publicly curse Hadhrat Abu Bakr (r.a) and Hadhrat Umar (r.a).

If you see Shias cursing or abusing then they are doing due to ignorance. No Imam (a.s) has given us any order to abuse or curse Sahabas (r.a). Those Shias who abuse or curse do so on their own accord. I also condemn such Shias.


Truth be told, of all the "misconceptions" about Shi'asm, cursing the Sahaba is the one that I find most prevalent among Shi'as.

For 12er Shi'asm to remain relevant, they have to keep cursing the Sahahaba, or else they are likely to become another obscure sect like the Zaydis and the Ismailis
كلُّ سُلامى من الناس عليه صدقة كلَّ يوم تطلع فيه الشمس، تَعدلُ بين اثنين صدقة، وتعين الرَّجل في دابَّته فتحمله عليها أو ترفع له عليها متاعَه صدقة، والكلمةُ الطيِّبة صدقة، وبكلِّ خطوة تَمشيها إلى الصلاة صدقة، وتُميط الأذى عن الطريق صدقة

Ijtaba

Re: The term Rafidah
« Reply #5 on: November 11, 2015, 11:17:31 PM »
Thank you Imam Ali for your answers.

Can you please list those beliefs of Rafidah which makes them out of fold of Islam.

*I want to clear one point. We Shias are strictly forbidden by our Imams (a.s) to curse or bad-mouth any Sahaba (r.a) or Ummul Momineen Hadhrat Aisha (r.a) & Ummul Momineen Hadrat Hafsa (r.a). I have myself seen narration of Imam (a.s) getting angry and condemning those people who publicly curse Hadhrat Abu Bakr (r.a) and Hadhrat Umar (r.a).

If you see Shias cursing or abusing then they are doing due to ignorance. No Imam (a.s) has given us any order to abuse or curse Sahabas (r.a). Those Shias who abuse or curse do so on their own accord. I also condemn such Shias.


as much as I wish that statement was true. It's quite contradictory to Shi'ah beliefs. There are many narrations abusing the Sahabah and 'A'isha. I can give a few if you want?

Brother Ibn Yahya if there are such narrations then please provide them. I did like to see them.

Thank you Imam Ali for your answers.

Can you please list those beliefs of Rafidah which makes them out of fold of Islam.

*I want to clear one point. We Shias are strictly forbidden by our Imams (a.s) to curse or bad-mouth any Sahaba (r.a) or Ummul Momineen Hadhrat Aisha (r.a) & Ummul Momineen Hadrat Hafsa (r.a). I have myself seen narration of Imam (a.s) getting angry and condemning those people who publicly curse Hadhrat Abu Bakr (r.a) and Hadhrat Umar (r.a).

If you see Shias cursing or abusing then they are doing due to ignorance. No Imam (a.s) has given us any order to abuse or curse Sahabas (r.a). Those Shias who abuse or curse do so on their own accord. I also condemn such Shias.


Truth be told, of all the "misconceptions" about Shi'asm, cursing the Sahaba is the one that I find most prevalent among Shi'as.

For 12er Shi'asm to remain relevant, they have to keep cursing the Sahahaba, or else they are likely to become another obscure sect like the Zaydis and the Ismailis

Its true cursing is prevelant but its due to ignorance. Our Prophet (s.a.w.w) and Imams (a.s) have strictly forbidden us from using bad languages for someone.

If you see filthy-minded people abusing Prophet's (s.a.w.w) wives that doesn't mean that it was ordered or permitted by our Imams (a.s). Ummul Momineen Hadhrat Aisha (r.a) and Ummul Momineen Hadhrat Hafsa (r.a) are wives of our Prophet (s.a.w.w) and abusing them is to abuse the Prophet (s.a.w.w). No sane person would tolerate anyone to abuse his wife so how could Imams (a.s) had allowed people to abuse Prophet's (s.a.w.w) wives???

Khaled

Re: The term Rafidah
« Reply #6 on: November 11, 2015, 11:23:02 PM »
Its true cursing is prevelant but its due to ignorance. Our Prophet (s.a.w.w) and Imams (a.s) have strictly forbidden us from using bad languages for someone.

If you see filthy-minded people abusing Prophet's (s.a.w.w) wives that doesn't mean that it was ordered or permitted by our Imams (a.s). Ummul Momineen Hadhrat Aisha (r.a) and Ummul Momineen Hadhrat Hafsa (r.a) are wives of our Prophet (s.a.w.w) and abusing them is to abuse the Prophet (s.a.w.w). No sane person would tolerate anyone to abuse his wife so how could Imams (a.s) had allowed people to abuse Prophet's (s.a.w.w) wives???

Akhi, with all due respect, no one who is not 12er believes that the Imams ordered this, rather this is a fabrication by the 12ers themselves.  I also agree with you that cursing the Companions is based on ignorance; however, the mainstream 12er madhhab not only allows, but advocates cursing the Companions.  Those who reject it do so because it is "anti-unity", not because they don't think its allowed.
كلُّ سُلامى من الناس عليه صدقة كلَّ يوم تطلع فيه الشمس، تَعدلُ بين اثنين صدقة، وتعين الرَّجل في دابَّته فتحمله عليها أو ترفع له عليها متاعَه صدقة، والكلمةُ الطيِّبة صدقة، وبكلِّ خطوة تَمشيها إلى الصلاة صدقة، وتُميط الأذى عن الطريق صدقة

Khaled

Re: The term Rafidah
« Reply #7 on: November 11, 2015, 11:31:38 PM »
http://gift2shias.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/73mc5.jpg

Here is a fatwa by Sistani about the topic, notice how he uses political language in another fatwa to make it seem like such a thing is not allowed

http://www.imam-us.org/sites/default/files/image002_0.png

This is why sincere innocent people like yourself think that it is not a part of Shi'sm, when its really the only thing that seperates 12ers from regular Muslims
كلُّ سُلامى من الناس عليه صدقة كلَّ يوم تطلع فيه الشمس، تَعدلُ بين اثنين صدقة، وتعين الرَّجل في دابَّته فتحمله عليها أو ترفع له عليها متاعَه صدقة، والكلمةُ الطيِّبة صدقة، وبكلِّ خطوة تَمشيها إلى الصلاة صدقة، وتُميط الأذى عن الطريق صدقة

Ijtaba

Re: The term Rafidah
« Reply #8 on: November 11, 2015, 11:44:27 PM »
Its true cursing is prevelant but its due to ignorance. Our Prophet (s.a.w.w) and Imams (a.s) have strictly forbidden us from using bad languages for someone.

If you see filthy-minded people abusing Prophet's (s.a.w.w) wives that doesn't mean that it was ordered or permitted by our Imams (a.s). Ummul Momineen Hadhrat Aisha (r.a) and Ummul Momineen Hadhrat Hafsa (r.a) are wives of our Prophet (s.a.w.w) and abusing them is to abuse the Prophet (s.a.w.w). No sane person would tolerate anyone to abuse his wife so how could Imams (a.s) had allowed people to abuse Prophet's (s.a.w.w) wives???

Akhi, with all due respect, no one who is not 12er believes that the Imams ordered this, rather this is a fabrication by the 12ers themselves.  I also agree with you that cursing the Companions is based on ignorance; however, the mainstream 12er madhhab not only allows, but advocates cursing the Companions.  Those who reject it do so because it is "anti-unity", not because they don't think its allowed.

Thanks Brother for clarifying that Imams from Ahlul Bayt (a.s) NEVER Ordered Cursing Sahabas (r.a) and Ummhatul Momineen (r.a). I follow Imams (a.s) and not so-called scholars who spread hatred. Even our Imams (a.s) also had to face such people in their lives. Some of their so-called Shias used to curse and abuse Sahabas (r.a) and people thought Imams (a.s) permitted them to do so. When people inquired Imams (a.s) as to why their so-called Shias curse and abuse Sahabas (r.a) our Imams (a.s) used to get angry at those so-called Shias and told the people that these so-called shias curse and abuse on their own accord and they (the Imams) never ordered them to do so. So-called Shias have always created problems for our Imams (a.s) even until this day and age. These so-called Shias do evil things and our Imams (a.s) get blamed. Our Imams (a.s) never liked them and always said about them (the so-called shias) to be hypocrites. Imam Hussain (a.s) said about them, "You claim that you love us but your swords are drawn against us."

Ijtaba

Re: The term Rafidah
« Reply #9 on: November 11, 2015, 11:52:32 PM »
http://gift2shias.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/73mc5.jpg

Here is a fatwa by Sistani about the topic, notice how he uses political language in another fatwa to make it seem like such a thing is not allowed

http://www.imam-us.org/sites/default/files/image002_0.png

This is why sincere innocent people like yourself think that it is not a part of Shi'sm, when its really the only thing that seperates 12ers from regular Muslims

Brother I am aware of such things but I have preferred teachings of Prophet (s.a.w.w) and Imams (a.s) over Ayatollahs and Scholars. If our Imams (a.s) did not allow cursing then the words of Ayatollahs and Scholars in contrast does not carry any weight.

Khaled

Re: The term Rafidah
« Reply #10 on: November 12, 2015, 12:22:43 AM »
http://gift2shias.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/73mc5.jpg

Here is a fatwa by Sistani about the topic, notice how he uses political language in another fatwa to make it seem like such a thing is not allowed

http://www.imam-us.org/sites/default/files/image002_0.png

This is why sincere innocent people like yourself think that it is not a part of Shi'sm, when its really the only thing that seperates 12ers from regular Muslims

Brother I am aware of such things but I have preferred teachings of Prophet (s.a.w.w) and Imams (a.s) over Ayatollahs and Scholars. If our Imams (a.s) did not allow cursing then the words of Ayatollahs and Scholars in contrast does not carry any weight.

How do you know what the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم and the Imams taught?  Do you believe in 12?  Do you believe in the hidden mahdi?  How do you choose what to believe and not believe in?
كلُّ سُلامى من الناس عليه صدقة كلَّ يوم تطلع فيه الشمس، تَعدلُ بين اثنين صدقة، وتعين الرَّجل في دابَّته فتحمله عليها أو ترفع له عليها متاعَه صدقة، والكلمةُ الطيِّبة صدقة، وبكلِّ خطوة تَمشيها إلى الصلاة صدقة، وتُميط الأذى عن الطريق صدقة

Ijtaba

Re: The term Rafidah
« Reply #11 on: November 12, 2015, 01:41:47 AM »
http://gift2shias.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/73mc5.jpg

Here is a fatwa by Sistani about the topic, notice how he uses political language in another fatwa to make it seem like such a thing is not allowed

http://www.imam-us.org/sites/default/files/image002_0.png

This is why sincere innocent people like yourself think that it is not a part of Shi'sm, when its really the only thing that seperates 12ers from regular Muslims

Brother I am aware of such things but I have preferred teachings of Prophet (s.a.w.w) and Imams (a.s) over Ayatollahs and Scholars. If our Imams (a.s) did not allow cursing then the words of Ayatollahs and Scholars in contrast does not carry any weight.

How do you know what the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم and the Imams taught?  Do you believe in 12?  Do you believe in the hidden mahdi?  How do you choose what to believe and not believe in?

Yes I believe in 12 Imams (a.s) and Hidden Mehdi (a.s) also. I believe in Al-Quran from which teachings of Prophet (s.a.w.w) and Imams (a.s) are known. The ahadiths which agree with Al-Quran is accepted.

Ibn Yahya

Re: The term Rafidah
« Reply #12 on: November 12, 2015, 01:45:29 AM »
http://gift2shias.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/73mc5.jpg

Here is a fatwa by Sistani about the topic, notice how he uses political language in another fatwa to make it seem like such a thing is not allowed

http://www.imam-us.org/sites/default/files/image002_0.png

This is why sincere innocent people like yourself think that it is not a part of Shi'sm, when its really the only thing that seperates 12ers from regular Muslims

Brother I am aware of such things but I have preferred teachings of Prophet (s.a.w.w) and Imams (a.s) over Ayatollahs and Scholars. If our Imams (a.s) did not allow cursing then the words of Ayatollahs and Scholars in contrast does not carry any weight.
Akhi in al-Kafi there's a Hadith that literally tells you to insult Ahl al-Bid'ah. Which is why so much foul language is used on the Sahabah by the Shi'ah

Hani

Re: The term Rafidah
« Reply #13 on: November 12, 2015, 02:01:01 AM »
I have not seen anyone curse and condemn people to hell-fire more than the 11 Shia Imams in Shia books. Shia books are loaded with narrations of the Imams cursing and abusing the Sahabah.
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

Ibn Yahya

Re: The term Rafidah
« Reply #14 on: November 12, 2015, 02:06:00 AM »
al-Kafi 2814

Muhammad ibn Yahya has narrated from Muhammad ibn al-Husayn from Ahmad ibn Muhammad ibn Abu Nasr from Dawud ibn Sarhan from Abu ‘Abd Allah, recipient of divine supreme covenant, who has said the following: “The Messenger of Allah has said, ‘When you after me find people of innovation and skepticism express your disapproval of them and increase your insults, words and opposition to and evidence against them so they may not become greedy to bring destruction to Islam. You must warn people against them and against learning their innovations. Allah will reward you for this and will raise your position in the next life.’”

Hadrami

Re: The term Rafidah
« Reply #15 on: November 12, 2015, 02:44:49 AM »
belittling, cursing & hating the shahaba is one of the CORE practices & belief of 12er shia. For you to not know this then you must be a quite uninformed & isolated 12er. Where do you live?

Bolani Muslim

Re: The term Rafidah
« Reply #16 on: November 12, 2015, 02:55:51 AM »
Sorry brother Ijtaba, but your '???' at the end of your post eerily reminds me of 'Ameen'. If you want to see cursing of Sahabah, just search it on YouTube.

Ijtaba

Re: The term Rafidah
« Reply #17 on: November 12, 2015, 03:12:21 AM »
al-Kafi 2814

Muhammad ibn Yahya has narrated from Muhammad ibn al-Husayn from Ahmad ibn Muhammad ibn Abu Nasr from Dawud ibn Sarhan from Abu ‘Abd Allah, recipient of divine supreme covenant, who has said the following: “The Messenger of Allah has said, ‘When you after me find people of innovation and skepticism express your disapproval of them and increase your insults, words and opposition to and evidence against them so they may not become greedy to bring destruction to Islam. You must warn people against them and against learning their innovations. Allah will reward you for this and will raise your position in the next life.’”

Where in this narration is mention of Sahabas? This narration is talking about people of innovation and skepticism and not Sahabas.

Ijtaba

Re: The term Rafidah
« Reply #18 on: November 12, 2015, 04:12:39 AM »
belittling, cursing & hating the shahaba is one of the CORE practices & belief of 12er shia. For you to not know this then you must be a quite uninformed & isolated 12er. Where do you live?

I live in Pakistan and yes I do know shias belittle, curse and hate Sahabas. The only thing I am saying is like you I also believe that they are wrong. These people do this kind of things due to ignorance. They don't know what their Prophet (s.a.w.w) and Imams (a.s) said regarding cursing and mocking Sahabas. The thing that I say is to engage with them and preach them so that they avoid cursing, belittling and mocking Sahabas (r.a).

Sorry brother Ijtaba, but your '???' at the end of your post eerily reminds me of 'Ameen'. If you want to see cursing of Sahabah, just search it on YouTube.

Yes I know such videos exist on YouTube. They are of no benefit to me. These videos will neither increase my knowledge or emaan. Why waste my time watching such nonsensical videos?

Ijtaba

Re: The term Rafidah
« Reply #19 on: November 12, 2015, 07:21:54 PM »
Thank you Imam Ali for your answers.

Can you please list those beliefs of Rafidah which makes them out of fold of Islam.

Can anyone please answer my question?

 

Related Topics

  Subject / Started by Replies Last post
5 Replies
1548 Views
Last post February 23, 2015, 04:49:19 PM
by Proud Muslimah
2 Replies
214 Views
Last post April 19, 2017, 12:24:17 PM
by Pearl
7 Replies
441 Views
Last post December 26, 2017, 12:35:49 AM
by Hani
20 Replies
322 Views
Last post February 19, 2018, 08:50:31 PM
by Rationalist