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What happened in Saqifa?

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Hani

Re: What happened in Saqifa?
« Reply #60 on: November 03, 2017, 05:21:03 AM »

LOL. Stop being being, childish you're a grown man. Both Abu Bakr and Ali were the companions of the Prophet (s). And you saying 'if you say this about Abu Bakr then I can also say that about Ali" what does this mean? Say what ever you want. Be my guest. Don't turn this into a personality clash.

Who made Abu Bakr and Omar the heads of the Muhajir. Their personality and character is on one side but they didn't discuss this minor situation with anyone. They didn't even inform anyone. On who's authority did they slip away? No one gave them the authority to speak on behalf of the Muhajir.

The Arabs wouldn't allow this and the tribes wouldn't accept that are all excuses. But still this could have been resolved justly and conducted fairly. That's exactly what I'm talking about. Saqifa has NO legitimacy, the Shaykhain had NO authority to speak on behalf of the Muhajir or the community and Abu Bakr's appointment wasn't conducted fairly and justly.

You can rant and rave as much as you want. I understand your feeling but let the people make up their own mind. All facts have been put forward and the matter had been discussed thoroughly. You can continue to defend and protect the Shaykhain and their doings. But for me it's not about the Shaykhain but about reality and facts. It's about the truth and what is right and just. And nothing should be more important than that.


Out of this entire rant above the only point you made was "Who says Abu Bakr has leadership position among Muhajirs", aside from the fact that he's actually the most popular Muhajir because he accompanied the Prophet (saw) in his Hijrah. And aside from the fact that the Prophet (saw) appointed him during his own life in position of leadership in multiple occasions. There are a ton of historical evidence to show that Abu Bakr was a revered figure and from the top heads if not the top head of the Muhajirin and the preferred candidate of Quraysh.

If that's your only issue, it's an easy issue to resolve.
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

Najamsethii484

Re: What happened in Saqifa?
« Reply #61 on: November 03, 2017, 11:57:49 AM »
what happened in saqifah was that 3 thugs of arabia runned away from Prophet Saww funeral and wanted to take over and get caliphate and didnt care about to attend Prophet Saww funeral and took over gave people bribery and took over and destroyed Muslims so much that we is in this state now that all media is targeting Muslims just because after Prophet Muhammad Saww 3 thugs of arabia and muawiyah and yazeed took over and wanted to destroy Islam. but couldnt do that because of Ahlulbayt AS. and banu umayya and banu saqifah only converted to Islam because they had no options left and they came in as enemy of Islam and ruled for 1000 years and damaged Muslims and showed them a false religion called sunnism and wahabism extremism version of their jews beliefs im very much sure that sunnism came from jews thats why Muslims are suffering nowadays because of banu umayya and banu saqifah. almost every Sunni Nasibi in this world doesnt know about Islam and is unaware what actually Islam is because of extremist sunnis.

iceman

Re: What happened in Saqifa?
« Reply #62 on: November 03, 2017, 01:51:10 PM »
Code: [Select]
@iceman

The irony of accusing others of personality worship when your whole sect is based on Ali, a non prophet.

Back to the subject, its been made clear again & again that the main heads of the ansar & muhajireen were at saqifa & theu agreed on Abu Bakr.
Yes banu hashim were not present. It wasn't a conspiracy as the banu hashim were busy were busy with funeral arrangements.
Besides there was nothing to stop the banu hashim to call the selection of Abu Bakr null & void & to call for another meeting. They didn't do this though. Which clearly shows they accepted the decision.

Ali, a lion during the Prophet saw time, but no longer a lion after the Prophet saw left according to shia logic.

You haven't answered any of my questions or addressed any of the points. I am not going to engage in sectarian warfare with you or get involved in personality worship or clash. No need to discuss individuals just stick to the subject.

The Shaykhain had NO AUTHORITY, were given NO AUTHORITY so therefore Saqifa had NO LEGITAMCY and Abu Bakr's appointment wasn't conducted justly and fairly.

What questions of yours? You post around 100 times a day. You expect me to read every one of your countless posts?

Only a deluded sectarian bigot would say that a selection of a leader by the MAIN HEADS of MAJORITY of the MAIN GROUPS carries no weight ar all because ONE PERSON was not there.

You keep saying stop turning things into personality worship, yet your entire argument is based on this premise of ALI, infact your whole religion is.

Hani was right in questioning if you have split personality.
One minute you bang on like a sunni, next minute you're the anti-sunni hardcore twelver.

Please make your arguments more concise, more coherent & definately more consistent.

You're all over the place.

Calm down. Don't get too personal. Enough has been said on the coincidental and dramatic incident called Saqifa. I'm not interested in your emotional and personal tactics. Now let the people decide and make up their own mind.
You need to calm down. You're really emotional and too sensitive, heck most of Shia men are.

Lol. Are you for real. If I was emotional and sensitive then I would be making the same remarks full of bitterness, grievance and full of hate as them. They speak as though they hold a grudge and as we're from a different plant and or species. So please keep your remarks to yourself if you can't contribute positively.

Najamsethii484

Re: What happened in Saqifa?
« Reply #63 on: November 03, 2017, 01:58:53 PM »
iceman brother they will only lie and they have no answer so they get frustrated only

iceman

Re: What happened in Saqifa?
« Reply #64 on: November 03, 2017, 02:22:54 PM »
iceman brother they will only lie and they have no answer so they get frustrated only

They start the thread and if you start to discuss with them and anything how ever little or slight goes against Khilafat or especially the Shaykhain they start to get personal by getting down and dirty. They start to speak with bitterness and envy They're severely into personality worship. WHY? Because they can't seem to see or expect anything wrong with the first three especially the Shaykhain.

Oh they're very quick to point fingers at, not Ali but their 4th rightly guided Khalifa of the Muslims that he made mistakes and got things wrong or should have done things differently during his Khilafat period but when it comes to the first three especially the Shaykhain then this is exactly where the personality worship starts and kicks in.

They will completely disregard reality and facts, bring in things and matters that are irrelevant to the subject and thread and if that doesn't work then they will start to get personal with you by their dirty tactics and start to toy with you such as making insulting remarks or humiliating points.

Not one word, not a single word on or as for instance,

'Alhamdo-Lillah we are Ahle Sunah and here is what we are and why we are'

These handful of people are so unfortunate or should I say damned by Allah that they can't be honest and truthful. They haven't been blessed with the privilege to say who they are, what they are and why they are.

They use the Ahle Sunah banner to launch their dirty and filthy propaganda to cause and strengthen the sectarian division within Muslims. And they have become so blind with this sectarian division disease that they can't think and see straight. They have no regards for reality and facts, for right and wrong or for what is true and false.

These handful of people are the hate mongers or the hooligans of our Muslim religion and community. And it is because of them and their kind that Islam and the Muslims are looking bad and ugly globally.

iceman

Re: What happened in Saqifa?
« Reply #65 on: November 03, 2017, 02:35:27 PM »

LOL. Stop being being, childish you're a grown man. Both Abu Bakr and Ali were the companions of the Prophet (s). And you saying 'if you say this about Abu Bakr then I can also say that about Ali" what does this mean? Say what ever you want. Be my guest. Don't turn this into a personality clash.

Who made Abu Bakr and Omar the heads of the Muhajir. Their personality and character is on one side but they didn't discuss this minor situation with anyone. They didn't even inform anyone. On who's authority did they slip away? No one gave them the authority to speak on behalf of the Muhajir.

The Arabs wouldn't allow this and the tribes wouldn't accept that are all excuses. But still this could have been resolved justly and conducted fairly. That's exactly what I'm talking about. Saqifa has NO legitimacy, the Shaykhain had NO authority to speak on behalf of the Muhajir or the community and Abu Bakr's appointment wasn't conducted fairly and justly.

You can rant and rave as much as you want. I understand your feeling but let the people make up their own mind. All facts have been put forward and the matter had been discussed thoroughly. You can continue to defend and protect the Shaykhain and their doings. But for me it's not about the Shaykhain but about reality and facts. It's about the truth and what is right and just. And nothing should be more important than that.


Out of this entire rant above the only point you made was "Who says Abu Bakr has leadership position among Muhajirs", aside from the fact that he's actually the most popular Muhajir because he accompanied the Prophet (saw) in his Hijrah. And aside from the fact that the Prophet (saw) appointed him during his own life in position of leadership in multiple occasions. There are a ton of historical evidence to show that Abu Bakr was a revered figure and from the top heads if not the top head of the Muhajirin and the preferred candidate of Quraysh.

If that's your only issue, it's an easy issue to resolve.

LOL. If you want to speak about leadership and authority then this is where you should compare and see Character, performance and achievement wise. The selection of who is better or best and who should have the authority by being the leader should not be by choice but by performance and achievement and by merits and privilege.

If that's the route you want to go down then I suggest you open your mind and sight then you will only come to see why Ali was far better and greater than Abu Bakr in fact all of the Sahaba. Look at matters fairly and justly without prejudice or being bias.

Hani

Re: What happened in Saqifa?
« Reply #66 on: November 03, 2017, 05:49:25 PM »
Compare Abu Bakr's Caliphate with Ali's to see that Abu Bakr's achieved 10 times more important accomplishments than Ali, from defeating foreign Byzantines, to destroying false prophets, to collecting the Qur'an, to preventing a Fitnah between the Answer and Quraysh, to establishing Islam as a political Force, to fulfilling the Prophets (saw) promises, to preventing his relatives and children from assuming authority, to spending his entire personal wealth for Islam, to risking his life in battles even though he was a frail old man, to being chosen many times by the Prophet (saw) as leader of armies, leader of Hajj and leader of prayer etc... There's actually no comparison between Abu Bakr and Ali.
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

MuslimK

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Re: What happened in Saqifa?
« Reply #67 on: November 03, 2017, 06:21:38 PM »
I find it funny when a follower of the Imami sect tries to compare Abubakr with Ali and talks about looking at matters in a fair and just manner when we all know his sect's stance towards Abubakr

@Iceman If you were fair and just you would have not ignored the historical reality. Abubakr's caliphate and his achievements for Islam during that short period is enough to prove your theory wrong. And I am not even talking about his contributions and sacrifices for Islam during Prophet's (saw) time - the list would be very long.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2017, 06:25:57 PM by MuslimK »
در خلافت میل نیست ای بی‌خبر
میل کی آید ز بوبکر و عمر
میل اگر بودی در آن دو مقتدا
هر دو کردندی پسر را پیشوا

عطار نِیشابوری

www.Nahjul-Balagha.net | www.TwelverShia.net | www.ghadirkhumm.com

iceman

Re: What happened in Saqifa?
« Reply #68 on: November 03, 2017, 06:32:28 PM »
Compare Abu Bakr's Caliphate with Ali's to see that Abu Bakr's achieved 10 times more important accomplishments than Ali, from defeating foreign Byzantines, to destroying false prophets, to collecting the Qur'an, to preventing a Fitnah between the Answer and Quraysh, to establishing Islam as a political Force, to fulfilling the Prophets (saw) promises, to preventing his relatives and children from assuming authority, to spending his entire personal wealth for Islam, to risking his life in battles even though he was a frail old man, to being chosen many times by the Prophet (saw) as leader of armies, leader of Hajj and leader of prayer etc... There's actually no comparison between Abu Bakr and Ali.

TALK IS CHEAP and has always been, and here is the fairness and justice, BE IT YOU OR ME. Lets cut out the cheap talk, personal crap and the sectarian rife,  I dare you to start a thread about the comparison between Abu Bakr and Ali since you so desperately want to go down that road.

iceman

Re: What happened in Saqifa?
« Reply #69 on: November 03, 2017, 07:51:21 PM »
Muslimk and Hani, what are we afraid of then? Well if it's that simple then start a fresh thread.

zaid_ibn_ali

Re: What happened in Saqifa?
« Reply #70 on: November 03, 2017, 08:34:22 PM »
@iceman & najam

Your double act is not fooling anyone.

Maybe some of the 'heavyweights' are not responding as there's nothing to respond to. There's no academic nature to your posts. Just plain trolling.
I like it when there are academic discussions. There are brothers here who are quite resourceful in such discussions, but its a shame that we don't seem to have even one serious shia poster who posts anything of any academic or informative value.




Abu Muhammad

Re: What happened in Saqifa?
« Reply #71 on: November 03, 2017, 09:15:55 PM »
And you mentioned that Qoran and Sunah are silent on selecting/electing a leader according to Ahle Sunah,  you've lost me here, what is Shura all about and where does it go then?

Shura was laid down in the Quran as a generic principle in conducting our affairs only. No details were given on what, who, when and how. We read in Ash-Shura, verse 38:

وَالَّذِينَ اسْتَجَابُوا لِرَبِّهِمْ وَأَقَامُوا الصَّلَاةَ وَأَمْرُهُمْ شُورَىٰ بَيْنَهُمْ وَمِمَّا رَزَقْنَاهُمْ يُنْفِقُونَ

(Sahih International)
And  those  who  have  responded  to  their  lord  and  established  prayer  and  whose  affair  is [determined  by]  consultation  among  themselves,  and  from  what  We  have  provided  them, they  spend.


As you can see, the verse is generic and:
a) It covers the affairs of people in general and nothing specific about appointment of leaders.
b) It does not indicate who should be consulted and what they should be consulted about i.e. no explanation about shura methodology is given.

This is the closes you can get about selecting a leader via shura in the Quran. From a generic verse. Even so, you can clearly see that the verse indicates that shura is only praiseworthy and not mandatory.

Therefore, nothing wrong at all if heavyweight of Ahlus Sunnah said that even the appointment of a leader by force, it is still considered legitimate as as long as their rule not against Quran and Sunnah because of shura is praiseworthy and recommended and not mandatory.

There are 2 more verses where shura is mentioned. But none of them with regard to selecting a leader:

Sura Ali-Imran, Ayah 159:

فَبِمَا رَحْمَةٍ مِنَ اللَّهِ لِنْتَ لَهُمْ ۖ وَلَوْ كُنْتَ فَظًّا غَلِيظَ الْقَلْبِ لَانْفَضُّوا مِنْ حَوْلِكَ ۖ فَاعْفُ عَنْهُمْ وَاسْتَغْفِرْ لَهُمْ وَشَاوِرْهُمْ فِي الْأَمْرِ ۖ فَإِذَا عَزَمْتَ فَتَوَكَّلْ عَلَى اللَّهِ ۚ إِنَّ اللَّهَ يُحِبُّ الْمُتَوَكِّلِينَ

(Sahih International)
So  by  mercy  from Allah ,  [O  Muhammad],  you  were  lenient  with  them.  And  if  you  had been  rude  [in  speech]  and  harsh  in  heart,  they  would  have  disbanded  from  about  you. So  pardon  them  and  ask  forgiveness  for  them  and  consult  them  in  the  matter.  And when  you  have  decided,  then  rely  upon Allah .  Indeed, Allah loves  those  who  rely  [upon Him].


The verse is about the appointed leader himself i.e. Rasulullah (saw) consulting others. Not specifically about selection of leaders. And as you can see, no explanation about its methodology like the previous verse.

Sura Al-Baqarah, Ayah 233:

وَالْوَالِدَاتُ يُرْضِعْنَ أَوْلَادَهُنَّ حَوْلَيْنِ كَامِلَيْنِ ۖ لِمَنْ أَرَادَ أَنْ يُتِمَّ الرَّضَاعَةَ ۚ وَعَلَى الْمَوْلُودِ لَهُ رِزْقُهُنَّ وَكِسْوَتُهُنَّ بِالْمَعْرُوفِ ۚ لَا تُكَلَّفُ نَفْسٌ إِلَّا وُسْعَهَا ۚ لَا تُضَارَّ وَالِدَةٌ بِوَلَدِهَا وَلَا مَوْلُودٌ لَهُ بِوَلَدِهِ ۚ وَعَلَى الْوَارِثِ مِثْلُ ذَٰلِكَ ۗ فَإِنْ أَرَادَا فِصَالًا عَنْ تَرَاضٍ مِنْهُمَا وَتَشَاوُرٍ فَلَا جُنَاحَ عَلَيْهِمَا ۗ وَإِنْ أَرَدْتُمْ أَنْ تَسْتَرْضِعُوا أَوْلَادَكُمْ فَلَا جُنَاحَ عَلَيْكُمْ إِذَا سَلَّمْتُمْ مَا آتَيْتُمْ بِالْمَعْرُوفِ ۗ وَاتَّقُوا اللَّهَ وَاعْلَمُوا أَنَّ اللَّهَ بِمَا تَعْمَلُونَ بَصِيرٌ

(Sahih International)
Mothers may breastfeed their children two complete years for whoever wishes to complete the nursing [period]. Upon the father is the mothers' provision and their clothing according to what is acceptable. No person is charged with more than his capacity. No mother should be harmed through her child, and no father through his child. And upon the [father's] heir is [a duty] like that [of the father]. And if they both desire weaning through mutual consent from both of them and consultation, there is no blame upon either of them. And if you wish to have your children nursed by a substitute, there is no blame upon you as long as you give payment according to what is acceptable. And fear Allah and know that Allah is Seeing of what you do.


The verse is with regard to family matter and not about selection of leaders.

As for Sunnah, shura was mainly used by Rasulullah (saw) in the context of verse 159 of Sura Ali-Imran above. With regard to selecting leader after his (saw) death via shura, silent.

iceman

Re: What happened in Saqifa?
« Reply #72 on: November 03, 2017, 09:28:21 PM »
@iceman & najam

Your double act is not fooling anyone.

Maybe some of the 'heavyweights' are not responding as there's nothing to respond to. There's no academic nature to your posts. Just plain trolling.
I like it when there are academic discussions. There are brothers here who are quite resourceful in such discussions, but its a shame that we don't seem to have even one serious shia poster who posts anything of any academic or informative value.

LOL. Let the viewers be the judge of that. You can rant on as much as you want because that's all I seem to be getting for sometime. That's all you seem to strive on. You can't even justify Saqifa so where else do you desire to go from here?

zaid_ibn_ali

Re: What happened in Saqifa?
« Reply #73 on: November 03, 2017, 09:50:28 PM »
@iceman & najam

Your double act is not fooling anyone.

Maybe some of the 'heavyweights' are not responding as there's nothing to respond to. There's no academic nature to your posts. Just plain trolling.
I like it when there are academic discussions. There are brothers here who are quite resourceful in such discussions, but its a shame that we don't seem to have even one serious shia poster who posts anything of any academic or informative value.

LOL. Let the viewers be the judge of that. You can rant on as much as you want because that's all I seem to be getting for sometime. That's all you seem to strive on. You can't even justify Saqifa so where else do you desire to go from here?

I think you watch too much c factor or pop idol.

Saqifa is justified as it was accepted by all the main muslim heads at the time including Ali as he never called for a new vote or selection.

You have failed to countrr the point that the KEY FIGURES of the clans of the ansar & muhajireen were there & accepted it.


Abu Muhammad

Re: What happened in Saqifa?
« Reply #74 on: November 03, 2017, 09:51:50 PM »
@iceman & najam

Your double act is not fooling anyone.

Maybe some of the 'heavyweights' are not responding as there's nothing to respond to. There's no academic nature to your posts. Just plain trolling.
I like it when there are academic discussions. There are brothers here who are quite resourceful in such discussions, but its a shame that we don't seem to have even one serious shia poster who posts anything of any academic or informative value.

LOL. Let the viewers be the judge of that. You can rant on as much as you want because that's all I seem to be getting for sometime. That's all you seem to strive on. You can't even justify Saqifa so where else do you desire to go from here?

LOL... what you did all these while was keep on ranting that Saqifa is illegitimate. The illegitimacy was purely based on your own reasoning.

Nowhere inside hundreds, if not thousands, of your posts have you proven Saqifa was illegitimate based on Quran or Sunnah... LOL

iceman

Re: What happened in Saqifa?
« Reply #75 on: November 05, 2017, 06:42:50 PM »
@iceman & najam

Your double act is not fooling anyone.

Maybe some of the 'heavyweights' are not responding as there's nothing to respond to. There's no academic nature to your posts. Just plain trolling.
I like it when there are academic discussions. There are brothers here who are quite resourceful in such discussions, but its a shame that we don't seem to have even one serious shia poster who posts anything of any academic or informative value.

LOL. Let the viewers be the judge of that. You can rant on as much as you want because that's all I seem to be getting for sometime. That's all you seem to strive on. You can't even justify Saqifa so where else do you desire to go from here?

LOL... what you did all these while was keep on ranting that Saqifa is illegitimate. The illegitimacy was purely based on your own reasoning.

Nowhere inside hundreds, if not thousands, of your posts have you proven Saqifa was illegitimate based on Quran or Sunnah... LOL

Was the gathering in Saqifa a public gathering/assembly? Was it a planned and organised event? What was the reason and purpose for those who gathered there?

Abu Muhammad

Re: What happened in Saqifa?
« Reply #76 on: November 05, 2017, 06:50:47 PM »
@iceman & najam

Your double act is not fooling anyone.

Maybe some of the 'heavyweights' are not responding as there's nothing to respond to. There's no academic nature to your posts. Just plain trolling.
I like it when there are academic discussions. There are brothers here who are quite resourceful in such discussions, but its a shame that we don't seem to have even one serious shia poster who posts anything of any academic or informative value.

LOL. Let the viewers be the judge of that. You can rant on as much as you want because that's all I seem to be getting for sometime. That's all you seem to strive on. You can't even justify Saqifa so where else do you desire to go from here?

LOL... what you did all these while was keep on ranting that Saqifa is illegitimate. The illegitimacy was purely based on your own reasoning.

Nowhere inside hundreds, if not thousands, of your posts have you proven Saqifa was illegitimate based on Quran or Sunnah... LOL

Was the gathering in Saqifa a public gathering/assembly? Was it a planned and organised event? What was the reason and purpose for those who gathered there?

So what? Your argument was that the gathering was illegitimate and you failed to prove that from Quran and Sunnah.

iceman

Re: What happened in Saqifa?
« Reply #77 on: November 05, 2017, 06:53:10 PM »
@iceman & najam

Your double act is not fooling anyone.

Maybe some of the 'heavyweights' are not responding as there's nothing to respond to. There's no academic nature to your posts. Just plain trolling.
I like it when there are academic discussions. There are brothers here who are quite resourceful in such discussions, but its a shame that we don't seem to have even one serious shia poster who posts anything of any academic or informative value.

LOL. Let the viewers be the judge of that. You can rant on as much as you want because that's all I seem to be getting for sometime. That's all you seem to strive on. You can't even justify Saqifa so where else do you desire to go from here?

LOL... what you did all these while was keep on ranting that Saqifa is illegitimate. The illegitimacy was purely based on your own reasoning.

Nowhere inside hundreds, if not thousands, of your posts have you proven Saqifa was illegitimate based on Quran or Sunnah... LOL

Was the gathering in Saqifa a public gathering/assembly? Was it a planned and organised event? What was the reason and purpose for those who gathered there?

So what? Your argument was that the gathering was illegitimate and you failed to prove that from Quran and Sunnah.

What, you can't answer my questions or you don't want to?☺

iceman

Re: What happened in Saqifa?
« Reply #78 on: November 05, 2017, 06:59:08 PM »
How many Muhhajir were there when the Prophet (s) died? Any idea? Just an approximate figure. And how many of them were present in Saqifa? ☺

And just for you, if something isn't just and fair, it isn't reasonable and meaningful, it its not legitimate how can it be according to Qoran and Sunah? Don't label and value Qoran and Sunah so easy and cheap.

Abu Muhammad

Re: What happened in Saqifa?
« Reply #79 on: November 05, 2017, 07:04:59 PM »
You must be more knowledgeable than Asy-Syafii, Ahmad ibn Hanbal and other heavyweight of Ahlus Sunnah who didn't find anything contradicting to the Quran and Sunnah... Congratulation on becoming a mujtahid...
LOL

That's just prove what I said previously:

LOL... what you did all these while was keep on ranting that Saqifa is illegitimate. The illegitimacy was purely based on your own reasoning.

Nowhere inside hundreds, if not thousands, of your posts have you proven Saqifa was illegitimate based on Quran or Sunnah... LOL

 

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