What happened in Saqifa?

[Adil]

I cannot stand liars!  Zero patience is what I have for them.  Everything they say is a lie or misrepresentation of reality.  From Saqeefa to Muawiya to Saudi Arabia, every lie they propagate on one matter discredits another one or more of their lies on another issue.  Look at Iceman, for example.  He maintained that I "haven't been to any Shia mosque".  Finally I challenged him to a mubahala and the coward he is, he backed out.  When I reminded him of his lie, he asked me to "jog his memory" and show him where he claimed that I have never been to any Shi'i mosque.  And literally, I had to go three to four posts back ON THE SAME THREAD to find his exact words saying, "You haven't been to any Shia mosque. Just a tactic played by you".

These people are expert deceivers; too bad they don't try their luck in haath ki safaaee where they can garner praise for magic tricks, pick-pocketing and other tricks.

I agree that religious shia are normally deceptive people due to shiaism's teachings such as taqiyya. Maybe they're not bad people but following shiaism just gives them bad attributes.  Ice man's main purpose here is to troll or time waste or aggravate tbh. The best revenge against someone like him to is carry on destroying their religion piece by piece. Every ex-shia who becomes a proper Muslm is a slap in the face to him.

[iceman]

Lekin mut'ah ke dallay aur bhhaddwe to aaj kal business karte hai.  Zaraa Iran aur Iraq jaa kar dekho.


Kya kare, when Imam Ali (ra) himself cowered in Umar's (ra) presence - by not bringing pen and paper - then beygaano se kya gilaa!  Apne hi beywafaa, kamzor aur darpok nikle to auro se kya gila!


What is Saqeefa and Fadak?  They are trophies to the victors!  Whether they fought or fled from battles, one thing is certain: not a single one of your "infallibles" (ra) dared to stand toe-to-toe with them.  In fact, they gave up their own land to one and daughter (Umm Kulthum) to another, hahaha!  To main unka aulaad nahi hoo lekin wo aapke Ahlul Bayt (ra) ke daamaad hai aur daamaad ka hamesha izzat banaye rakhna chahiye.  To beghairat insaan, izzat karo Umar (ra) ki jo tumhaare Imam (ra) ka daamaad thhaa aur 2 aur Imamo (ra) ka jija!

"Lekin mut'ah ke dallay aur bhhaddwe to aaj kal business karte hai.  Zaraa Iran aur Iraq jaa kar dekho"

I've been and I've seen on numerous occasions. Nothing of the sort is there that you and in the way and manner you mention. Now if a handful of people just a few misuse or abuse something then that is a crime. You using it and trying to show that this is how that entire community is or this is what their faith stands for which is what you're exactly trying to do is exactly what propaganda is.

"Kya kare, when Imam Ali (ra) himself cowered in Umar's (ra) presence - by not bringing pen and paper - then beygaano se kya gilaa!  Apne hi beywafaa, kamzor aur darpok nikle to auro se kya gila!"

Picking on Ali and making it personal isn't going to wash away the stains in history. Neither are cheap excuses based on ifs and buts. The Prophet s.a.w asked for pen and paper, Umar objected. The others disagreed with Umar. Some sided with Umar and the others opposed. You decided on which party was right and which wrong. The Prophet s.a.w wanted to write something for them all so they won't go astray after him. Some went astray right in front of him. The matter is simple and straightforward as other matters. But you want to make kichari out of it to divert attention.

Waha peh koi beganay hai hee nahi teh. Sab apnay teh. Wesay tho uneh muhib e rasool ketay pirteh ho, jab zimedari ki baath athi hai tho uss waqth beyganay ho janeh hai. What kind of dramabazi is this.

"What is Saqeefa and Fadak?

Very simple answer. Quran ki khilafwarzi. Rasool keh waqth Qur'an hi kafi tah. Saqifa or Fadak keh waqth Qur'an ko chor dia. Jo cheez jab suit kareh useh pakar lo. Jab na kareh useh chor kar dusri pakar lo. Jo tumareh mufad meh hai useh leh lo. This is how you go as well.

"They are trophies to the victors!"

Nothing to show in battle. That's where the real victors were. Gasab e haq is no trophy.

"not a single one of your "infallibles" (ra) dared to stand toe-to-toe"

Those who stood toe to toe in battle could have easily done it here. But this is something the narrow minded and the arrogant don't understand. You go toe to toe in battle, not in the community. In battle it brings victory and honour. But in the community it brings unrest and civil clash. Take a look at your 4th rightly guided Caliph, those who went toe to toe with him,  what did it bring. A dark and stained period within Islamic history. And a very bad name and image for the Muslims.

"In fact, they gave up their own land to one and daughter (Umm Kulthum) to another, hahaha!

It's something we and some Sunnis don't accept. If it was true then the 'hahaha' wouldn't be there. 😊

Izzat ki nahi jathi balkeh kamai jathi hai. Jino neh rasool ki izzat nahi ki na uss ka lehaz raka, Ali neh useh beti dhi? Dadeh pardadeh ko kaun beti detha hai. Yeh tumareh ha rawaj ho gah. Na Ali keh ha, na hamareh ha. Fatima ka rishta manganeh ai teh tho Prophet s.a.w neh mu pehar lya aur khali hath lota dia. Aur Ali neh dada pardadah ko beti di? SubhanAllah. Zara aql seh kam lo.

[muslim720]

I've been and I've seen on numerous occasions. Nothing of the sort is there that you and in the way and manner you mention. Now if a handful of people just a few misuse or abuse something then that is a crime.

Stop lying!  It is an "act of Sunnah" and highly encouraged in your books and by your scholars.

Picking on Ali and making it personal isn't going to wash away the stains in history.

I am not picking on Imam Ali (ra), naudhubillah!  I am restating your beliefs and contextualizing them.  If you don't like it, blame your own aqeedah.  Not my fault that the "lion of Allah" was side-lined and kept in check.  Cats are kept in check, not lions.

The Prophet s.a.w asked for pen and paper, Umar objected. The others disagreed with Umar. Some sided with Umar and the others opposed. You decided on which party was right and which wrong.

What was Imam Ali (ra) doing?  Did he move a muscle to apply corrective course of action or was he scared to speak over, and confront, Umar (ra)?

Very simple answer. Quran ki khilafwarzi. Rasool keh waqth Qur'an hi kafi tah. Saqifa or Fadak keh waqth Qur'an ko chor dia. Jo cheez jab suit kareh useh pakar lo. Jab na kareh useh chor kar dusri pakar lo. Jo tumareh mufad meh hai useh leh lo. This is how you go as well.

Hum ko to Qur'an bhi mil gaya, Sunnah bhi, Saqeefa bhi aur Fadak.  Deen aur duniya mil gaya.  Aapne land maanga, lun mil gaya.  To bas, ab usse lattak kar jhoolte raho!

Nothing to show in battle.

Who conquered more lands for Islam?  Abu Bakr (ra) and Umar (ra) or Imam Ali (ra)?  During whose time did fitnah became widespread, Abu Bakr (ra) and Umar (ra) or Imam Ali (ra)?

You go toe to toe in battle, not in the community. In battle it brings victory and honour. But in the community it brings unrest and civil clash.

So Imam Ali (ra) did not want to fight for his "Divinely Ordained Wilayah" or Fadak, so as to not disturb the peace in the community, but he had no issues bringing an army to Syria to fight Muawiya.  In other words, Imam Ali (ra) - as per your ideology - considered bayyah from Muawiya more important than Wilayah, Fadak and the peace among Muslims.

It's something we and some Sunnis don't accept.

The marriage of Umm Kulthoom (ra) to Umar (ra) is mentioned in both Shi'i and Sunni books so you can continue to burn in the misery of denying it while also having to live with that fact.

[Mythbuster1]

Iceman using engineers videos who is a nobody in Pakistan and thinks he represents us Sunni Muslims in pskistan😂😂😂😂😂

What a lun!😂

[iceman]

Iceman using engineers videos who is a nobody in Pakistan and thinks he represents us Sunni Muslims in pskistan😂😂😂😂😂

What a lun!😂

When I point out a Sunni scholar then the answer is 'well he doesn't represent us'. When I point out something from a Sunni book then the answer is 'we don't accept that'. 😆

[iceman]

Stop lying!  It is an "act of Sunnah" and highly encouraged in your books and by your scholars.


I am not picking on Imam Ali (ra), naudhubillah!  I am restating your beliefs and contextualizing them.  If you don't like it, blame your own aqeedah.  Not my fault that the "lion of Allah" was side-lined and kept in check.  Cats are kept in check, not lions.


What was Imam Ali (ra) doing?  Did he move a muscle to apply corrective course of action or was he scared to speak over, and confront, Umar (ra)?


Hum ko to Qur'an bhi mil gaya, Sunnah bhi, Saqeefa bhi aur Fadak.  Deen aur duniya mil gaya.  Aapne land maanga, lun mil gaya.  To bas, ab usse lattak kar jhoolte raho!


Who conquered more lands for Islam?  Abu Bakr (ra) and Umar (ra) or Imam Ali (ra)?  During whose time did fitnah became widespread, Abu Bakr (ra) and Umar (ra) or Imam Ali (ra)?


So Imam Ali (ra) did not want to fight for his "Divinely Ordained Wilayah" or Fadak, so as to not disturb the peace in the community, but he had no issues bringing an army to Syria to fight Muawiya.  In other words, Imam Ali (ra) - as per your ideology - considered bayyah from Muawiya more important than Wilayah, Fadak and the peace among Muslims.


The marriage of Umm Kulthoom (ra) to Umar (ra) is mentioned in both Shi'i and Sunni books so you can continue to burn in the misery of denying it while also having to live with that fact.

"Stop lying!  It is an "act of Sunnah" and highly encouraged in your books and by your scholars"

Not true the way you put it. This has already been explained. I'll explain it again.

"I am not picking on Imam Ali (ra), naudhubillah!  I am restating your beliefs and contextualizing them.  If you don't like it, blame your own aqeedah.  Not my fault that the "lion of Allah" was side-lined and kept in check.  Cats are kept in check, not lions"

The Prophet s.a.w asked for a pen and paper. This wasn't a family only gathering where family matters or grievances needed to be discussed and sorted out. The Prophet s.a.w wanted to write something for the Sahaba so they don't go astray. Umar quickly objected and used words he shouldn't have. Others opposed and some sided with Umar. Voices were raised and fuss was created just as in Saqifa when the Ansar were going to elect a leader for the Ummah but the Shaykhain quickly rushed their to object and stop the Ansar. Ali's job here and there isn't to fuel the situation further. Those who didn't care what the Prophet s.a.w had to write and offer what blame are you trying to put on Ali here. Excuses won't and can't cover what was said and happened.

"What was Imam Ali (ra) doing?  Did he move a muscle to apply corrective course of action or was he scared to speak over, and confront, Umar (ra)?"

What course of action did you want Ali to apply. He did confront Umar. He along with other Sahaba challenged Umar over it. Just as many Sahaba along with Usman opposed the decision in Saqifa and were gathered in the house of Ali to discuss the matter.

"Hum ko to Qur'an bhi mil gaya, Sunnah bhi, Saqeefa bhi aur Fadak.  Deen aur duniya mil gaya.  Aapne land maanga, lun mil gaya.  To bas, ab usse lattak kar jhoolte raho"

Na uneh neh Qur'an ka khayal raka na Sunnah ka lehaz. Na aap ko sharam ai. Saqifa aur Fadak dunyavi tha jis ko uneh neh deen ko chor kar pakar liya. And what is this lun you keep mentioning. Where do you keep getting it from.

"Who conquered more lands for Islam?  Abu Bakr (ra) and Umar (ra) or Imam Ali (ra)?"

Shaykhain were conquerors? Justify conquering from Qur'an and Sunnah. And they conquered what? They couldn't conquer khaibar. They miserably failed. What are you talking about.

"During whose time did fitnah became widespread, Abu Bakr (ra) and Umar (ra) or Imam Ali (ra)?"

The ones who caused fitnah were the ones who opposed and challenged Ali. During Abu Bakr and Umar's time people had their differences with them but never cause fitna and broke up the Ummah. They didn't take the differences with the Shaykhain that far and became so selfish that they didn't care what harm came and to whom.

[Mythbuster1]

When I point out a Sunni scholar then the answer is 'well he doesn't represent us'. When I point out something from a Sunni book then the answer is 'we don't accept that'. 😆

Yes that’s EXACTLY right, you are using unknown youtubers passing them off as scholars 😂😂😂😂

How old are you?😜

So Yasir khabeeth is your scholar and you follow him.........shall I post his vids up and say he represents shiism?

Are you really that THICK?!?

[iceman]

Yes that’s EXACTLY right, you are using unknown youtubers passing them off as scholars 😂😂😂😂

How old are you?😜

So Yasir khabeeth is your scholar and you follow him.........shall I post his vids up and say he represents shiism?

Are you really that THICK?!?

"How old are you?" Same age as you 😀

"Are you really that THICK?" Not thicker than you 😁

"So Yasir khabeeth is your scholar and you follow him.........shall I post his vids up and say he represents shiism?"

The ones you pick and choose are my scholars and the ones I pick and choose aren't yours 😂

[Mythbuster1]

"How old are you?" Same age as you 😀

"Are you really that THICK?" Not thicker than you 😁

"So Yasir khabeeth is your scholar and you follow him.........shall I post his vids up and say he represents shiism?"

The ones you pick and choose are my scholars and the ones I pick and choose aren't yours 😂

Thick as a plank of wood😂😂😂

The ones YOU pick YOU reckon they are ahlu sunnah scholars........I only replied we can do the same with khabeeth.

Are you really THICK? 😉

[muslim720]

Not true the way you put it. This has already been explained. I'll explain it again.

Apparently, you know more than your own scholars and even Imams (ra).  After all, you rejected the authentic hadith from Al-Kafi by way of Imam Jafar as-Sadiq (ra).

The Prophet s.a.w asked for a pen and paper. This wasn't a family only gathering where family matters or grievances needed to be discussed and sorted out. The Prophet s.a.w wanted to write something for the Sahaba so they don't go astray. Umar quickly objected and used words he shouldn't have. Others opposed and some sided with Umar.

How would you distinguish between those who wanted to bring a pen and paper and those who did not? 

Voices were raised and fuss was created just as in Saqifa when the Ansar were going to elect a leader for the Ummah but the Shaykhain quickly rushed their to object and stop the Ansar.

Would you say that participants in Saqeefa, and the process emanating from this meeting, were supporters of what transpired?

What course of action did you want Ali to apply.

Bring the pen and paper.

Saqifa aur Fadak dunyavi tha jis ko uneh neh deen ko chor kar pakar liya.

We all know who foam at the mouth making mentions of Saqeefa and Fadak.  A day does not go by in a Shi'i majlis when a direct or indirect reference is made to either one of the two whereas I do not recall a day in my life visiting Sunni mosques and occasions where the two were mentioned.  Clearly shows who is running after dunya!

They couldn't conquer khaibar. They miserably failed. What are you talking about.

Compare Khaibar to spreading Islam from China in the east to Morocco in the west.  No comparison!

Maybe the Shaykhain (ra) learned from their failure at Khaibar whereas Imam Ali (ra) forgot even the bits he knew.

The ones who caused fitnah were the ones who opposed and challenged Ali. During Abu Bakr and Umar's time people had their differences with them but never cause fitna and broke up the Ummah. They didn't take the differences with the Shaykhain that far and became so selfish that they didn't care what harm came and to whom.

....because the Shaykhain (ra) had put a lid on the fitnah-mongers whereas Imam Ali (ra) fell into the trap of accepting the same troublemakers as his "partisans".