TwelverShia.net Forum

When did Imam Ali give bayyah to Abu Bakr?

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

confusedshia

When did Imam Ali give bayyah to Abu Bakr?
« on: September 12, 2017, 06:59:36 PM »
Salam,

Can someone please tell me when Imam Ali gave bayyah to Abu Bakr? I have heard some Sunnis say it was straight away, whilst others say it took Imam Ali six months to do so?

It would help if you could provide references

Thanks

Farid

Re: When did Imam Ali give bayyah to Abu Bakr?
« Reply #1 on: September 12, 2017, 11:58:32 PM »
Wa alaykum alsalam

Six months is in Al Bukhari.

I believe immediately was quoted by al Bayhaqi in a decent chain.

Some scholars say that Ali gave bay'ah twice. Others say that the first account of six months is more reliable than the second.

Either way, Ali gave bay'ah.

confusedshia

Re: When did Imam Ali give bayyah to Abu Bakr?
« Reply #2 on: September 13, 2017, 12:52:57 AM »
Wa alaykum alsalam

Six months is in Al Bukhari.

I believe immediately was quoted by al Bayhaqi in a decent chain.

Some scholars say that Ali gave bay'ah twice. Others say that the first account of six months is more reliable than the second.

Either way, Ali gave bay'ah.

Thank you brother.

So do all Sunnis agree that Imam Ali gave his bayyah to Abu Bakr straight away (with the majority believing that he also gave the bayyah for a second time after 6 months)? If so, what would be the purpose of giving bayyah for a second time?

Is the narration in Sunan Bayhaqi graded as hasan?

Farid

Re: When did Imam Ali give bayyah to Abu Bakr?
« Reply #3 on: September 13, 2017, 01:14:14 AM »
They would say that the second bay'ah was to confirm his satisfaction with Abu Bakr, since he kept to himself for six months and wasn't involved in many public affairs.

Personally, I feel that it was only one bay'ah, which occurred after six months.

I honestly can't remember the grading of Al Bayhaqi's chain. I just remember reading a thread in Arabic arguing that it was weak.

confusedshia

Re: When did Imam Ali give bayyah to Abu Bakr?
« Reply #4 on: September 13, 2017, 01:22:57 AM »
They would say that the second bay'ah was to confirm his satisfaction with Abu Bakr, since he kept to himself for six months and wasn't involved in many public affairs.

Personally, I feel that it was only one bay'ah, which occurred after six months.

I honestly can't remember the grading of Al Bayhaqi's chain. I just remember reading a thread in Arabic arguing that it was weak.

Which is the majority position within Sunni scholarship?

Hani

Re: When did Imam Ali give bayyah to Abu Bakr?
« Reply #5 on: September 13, 2017, 04:31:49 AM »
Vast majority of reports including the weak Shia ones all agree he gave Bay`ah right away, they only differ whether he was forced or not, whether he was happy or not. The six month account comes from al-Zuhri only and is disconnected. We reconcile that he gave his pledge late at the beginning, the public never witnessed, then abandoned all matters due to the sickness of Fatimah and the conflict of inheritance. After Abu Bakr's visit to Fatimah and then her passing, `Ali went and openly delivered a sermon praising Abu Bakr and renewed his pledge in the Masjid in front of all (silencing all trouble makers).

read this book:
http://www.twelvershia.net/2017/02/17/book-saqifah-shura/
« Last Edit: September 13, 2017, 06:46:09 AM by Hani »
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

confusedshia

Re: When did Imam Ali give bayyah to Abu Bakr?
« Reply #6 on: September 13, 2017, 02:23:52 PM »
Vast majority of reports including the weak Shia ones all agree he gave Bay`ah right away, they only differ whether he was forced or not, whether he was happy or not. The six month account comes from al-Zuhri only and is disconnected. We reconcile that he gave his pledge late at the beginning, the public never witnessed, then abandoned all matters due to the sickness of Fatimah and the conflict of inheritance. After Abu Bakr's visit to Fatimah and then her passing, `Ali went and openly delivered a sermon praising Abu Bakr and renewed his pledge in the Masjid in front of all (silencing all trouble makers).

read this book:
http://www.twelvershia.net/2017/02/17/book-saqifah-shura/

The book looks interesting, I think I will purchase it.

Do any sahih reports exist within the Shia tradition which state that Imam Ali gave his pledge of allegiance immediately or are these all weak?

MuslimK

  • *****
  • Total likes: 200
  • +3/-0
  • یا مقلب القلوب ثبت قلبی علی دینک
    • Refuting Shia allegations everywhere
  • Religion: Sunni
Re: When did Imam Ali give bayyah to Abu Bakr?
« Reply #7 on: September 13, 2017, 10:03:58 PM »
I remember reading a Shia report mentioning that only 12th Imam will not pledge allegiance to the rulers which proves all the Imams before him pledged their allegiances (except Hussain).
در خلافت میل نیست ای بی‌خبر
میل کی آید ز بوبکر و عمر
میل اگر بودی در آن دو مقتدا
هر دو کردندی پسر را پیشوا

عطار نِیشابوری

www.Nahjul-Balagha.net | www.TwelverShia.net | www.ghadirkhumm.com

MuslimK

  • *****
  • Total likes: 200
  • +3/-0
  • یا مقلب القلوب ثبت قلبی علی دینک
    • Refuting Shia allegations everywhere
  • Religion: Sunni
Re: When did Imam Ali give bayyah to Abu Bakr?
« Reply #8 on: September 13, 2017, 10:10:49 PM »
I remember reading a Shia report mentioning that only 12th Imam will not pledge allegiance to the rulers which proves all the Imams before him pledged their allegiances (except Hussain).

Here, I found it:

وأما علة ما وقع من الغيبة فإن الله عزوجل يقول : « يا أيها الذين آمنوا لا تسئلوا عن أشياء إن تبد لكم تسؤكم » ( 2 ) إنه لم يكن لاحد من آبائي عليهم السلام إلا وقد وقعت في عنقه بيعة لطاغية زمانه ، وإني أخرج حين أخرج ، ولا بيعة لاحد من الطواغيت في عنقي .

And as to the cause of the transpiring of the occultation, then verily Allah (aj) says: ‘O you who believe! Do not ask about (those) things which if revealed to you would torment you’ [Surat al Ma’idah: 102]. Verily there was not one from my fathers عليهم السلام but there happened to be the bayah (pledge of allegiance) to the despot of his time on his neck, and I will emerge when I will emerge and there shall not be the bay`ah of anyone of the despots on my neck.

Source: Kamaal al Deen Wa Tamam al Ni`mah of Shaykh al Saduq, Chapter 45, Mention of the Epistles (Tauqee`aat) That Have Reached from the Qa’im ( ذكر التوقيعات الواردة عن القائم عليه السلام)

(Taken from: https://islamistruth.wordpress.com/2010/09/18/imam-alias-allegiance-to-abu-bakrra/)


Some more reports from Shia books:


عن زرارة، عن أبي جعفر (عليه السلام) قال … كتم علي (عليه السلام) أمره وبايع مكرها حيث لم يجد أعوانا

1.) Zurarah narrated from Imam Baqir that he said : Ali had hidden his ‘amr’ and rendered allegiance with disliking when he didn’t find supporters. [Furu Kafi, 3/139]

لما وردت الكتب على اسامة انصرف بمن معه حتى دخل المدينة، فلما رأى اجتماع الخلق على ابى بكر انطلق إلى علي بن ابي طالب عليه السلام فقال له: ماهذا ؟ قال له علي: هذا ما ترى. قال له اسامة: فهل بايعته ؟ فقال: نعم يا اسامة.

2.) When the letter reached Usama, he returned with his supporters to Medinah, and when he saw that the people have united on AbuBakr, he went to Ali and asked : What is it? He replied :This is what you are observing. Usama asked : Have you also rendered allegiance to him? Ali said : Yes O Usamah! [Ihtijaj p. 50]

Shustri says:

حضرت امیر و سائر بنی ھاشم از روئے اکراہ با ابی بکر بظاھر بیعت کردند و دست بر دست اوزدند

3.) Ali and the complete bani hashim rendered allegiance to Abu Bakr with dislike, and laid their hands on his hand. [Majalis al Momineen, tadhkira Khalid ibn saeed]

فبايعت أبا بكر كما بايعتموه، وكرهت أن أشق عصا المسلمين، وأن أفرق بين جماعتهم، ثم أن أبا بكر جعلها لعمر من بعده، وأنتم تعلمون أني أولى الناس برسول الله (صلى الله عليه وآله) وبالناس من بعده، فبايعت عمر كما بايعتموه، فوفيت له ببيعته حتى لما قتل جعلني سادس ستة، فدخلت حيث أدخلني، وكرهت أن أفرق جماعة المسلمين وأشق عصاهم، فبايعتم عثمان فبايعته

4.) Ali said : I rendered allegiance to Abu Bakr just like you people rendered allegiance to him, and disliked to break the power of Muslims and disunite their jamaat, then when AbuBakr appointed Umar as Caliph after him, and you knew that I had more right after the Messenger of Allah (s), I still rendered allegiance to Umar as you rendered allegiance to him, till when he was killed and made me the member of six member council, I joined them and disliked to disunite the jamaat of the Muslims and break their power. Then you rendered allegiance to Uthman, I also rendered allegiance to him. [Amali by Tusi, 2/121]

5.) Sayyid Murtadha says in ‘al Shafi’ : What is apparent and in which there is no problem is that Ali rendered allegiance (to Abu Bakr) to protect from Sharr and escape from fitnah. [al-Shafi, p. 209]

Taken from: https://islamistruth.wordpress.com/2012/12/27/allegiance-bayah-of-ali-to-abubakr-umar-uthman/
در خلافت میل نیست ای بی‌خبر
میل کی آید ز بوبکر و عمر
میل اگر بودی در آن دو مقتدا
هر دو کردندی پسر را پیشوا

عطار نِیشابوری

www.Nahjul-Balagha.net | www.TwelverShia.net | www.ghadirkhumm.com

Hani

Re: When did Imam Ali give bayyah to Abu Bakr?
« Reply #9 on: September 14, 2017, 03:42:42 AM »
Thank you, so as you can see, all Shia sources above show he gave it right away.

Even their narrations about broken rib all say he was forced to give allegiance right away. This is used as an excuse by them because they're in a predicament.
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

 

Related Topics

  Subject / Started by Replies Last post
5 Replies
1409 Views
Last post February 11, 2015, 09:20:11 PM
by Hani
1 Replies
614 Views
Last post October 14, 2015, 11:51:34 AM
by Aba AbdAllah
5 Replies
171 Views
Last post August 25, 2017, 01:23:54 AM
by Link
6 Replies
193 Views
Last post September 24, 2017, 02:35:33 AM
by Hani