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How did Al-Hussain save Islam?

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Farid

How did Al-Hussain save Islam?
« on: October 08, 2017, 07:40:38 PM »
Shias say he willingly sacrificed himself and his family for Islam... and the latter is obviously not permissible according to the Shari'ah.

Sunni reports and the most authentic Shia report agree that Al Hussain attempted to back out of Karbala to avoid a massacre, which shows that he did not want to get him or his family killed.

Are there any Shias here that can explain how Al Hussain's actions saved Islam?

Previous thread has been closed due to irrelevant content. Sunnis, please do not bash Shias. Shias, please provide direct answers. Copy and paste jobs will not be tolerated.

This topic is NOT for discussion Al-Hussain's wisdom of traveling to Kufa. It is not about discussing the Sunni position. It is a straightforward question that seeks a direct answer.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2017, 07:43:54 PM by Farid »

iceman

Re: How did Al-Hussain save Islam?
« Reply #1 on: October 08, 2017, 08:49:03 PM »
Shias say he willingly sacrificed himself and his family for Islam... and the latter is obviously not permissible according to the Shari'ah.

Sunni reports and the most authentic Shia report agree that Al Hussain attempted to back out of Karbala to avoid a massacre, which shows that he did not want to get him or his family killed.

Are there any Shias here that can explain how Al Hussain's actions saved Islam?

Previous thread has been closed due to irrelevant content. Sunnis, please do not bash Shias. Shias, please provide direct answers. Copy and paste jobs will not be tolerated.

This topic is NOT for discussion Al-Hussain's wisdom of traveling to Kufa. It is not about discussing the Sunni position. It is a straightforward question that seeks a direct answer.

By standing up and refusing to accept Yazeed as a leader of the Muslim Ummah. Because Yazeed wasn't fit to govern and under his reign Islam, its principles and values were at stake. I've already mentioned in detail why. Hussein had a choice but refused to give allegiance point blank and was willing to and did sacrifice all.

Noor-us-Sunnah

Re: How did Al-Hussain save Islam?
« Reply #2 on: October 08, 2017, 09:04:13 PM »
Shias say he willingly sacrificed himself and his family for Islam... and the latter is obviously not permissible according to the Shari'ah.

Sunni reports and the most authentic Shia report agree that Al Hussain attempted to back out of Karbala to avoid a massacre, which shows that he did not want to get him or his family killed.

Are there any Shias here that can explain how Al Hussain's actions saved Islam?

Previous thread has been closed due to irrelevant content. Sunnis, please do not bash Shias. Shias, please provide direct answers. Copy and paste jobs will not be tolerated.

This topic is NOT for discussion Al-Hussain's wisdom of traveling to Kufa. It is not about discussing the Sunni position. It is a straightforward question that seeks a direct answer.

By standing up and refusing to accept Yazeed as a leader of the Muslim Ummah. Because Yazeed wasn't fit to govern and under his reign Islam, its principles and values were at stake. I've already mentioned in detail why. Hussein had a choice but refused to give allegiance point blank and was willing to and did sacrifice all.

Where Abu bakr(ra), Umar(ra), Uthman(ra) and Muawiya(ra) fit to govern? And wasn't Islam, its values and principles weren't at stake during their rule ?  If No, then why didn't Ali(ra), save Islam?

iceman

Re: How did Al-Hussain save Islam?
« Reply #3 on: October 08, 2017, 11:22:02 PM »
Shias say he willingly sacrificed himself and his family for Islam... and the latter is obviously not permissible according to the Shari'ah.

Sunni reports and the most authentic Shia report agree that Al Hussain attempted to back out of Karbala to avoid a massacre, which shows that he did not want to get him or his family killed.

Are there any Shias here that can explain how Al Hussain's actions saved Islam?

Previous thread has been closed due to irrelevant content. Sunnis, please do not bash Shias. Shias, please provide direct answers. Copy and paste jobs will not be tolerated.

This topic is NOT for discussion Al-Hussain's wisdom of traveling to Kufa. It is not about discussing the Sunni position. It is a straightforward question that seeks a direct answer.

By standing up and refusing to accept Yazeed as a leader of the Muslim Ummah. Because Yazeed wasn't fit to govern and under his reign Islam, its principles and values were at stake. I've already mentioned in detail why. Hussein had a choice but refused to give allegiance point blank and was willing to and did sacrifice all.

Where Abu bakr(ra), Umar(ra), Uthman(ra) and Muawiya(ra) fit to govern? And wasn't Islam, its values and principles weren't at stake during their rule ?  If No, then why didn't Ali(ra), save Islam?

Your questions are irrelevant to the thread. Otherwise I would love to answer.

Noor-us-Sunnah

Re: How did Al-Hussain save Islam?
« Reply #4 on: October 08, 2017, 11:28:25 PM »
Shias say he willingly sacrificed himself and his family for Islam... and the latter is obviously not permissible according to the Shari'ah.

Sunni reports and the most authentic Shia report agree that Al Hussain attempted to back out of Karbala to avoid a massacre, which shows that he did not want to get him or his family killed.

Are there any Shias here that can explain how Al Hussain's actions saved Islam?

Previous thread has been closed due to irrelevant content. Sunnis, please do not bash Shias. Shias, please provide direct answers. Copy and paste jobs will not be tolerated.

This topic is NOT for discussion Al-Hussain's wisdom of traveling to Kufa. It is not about discussing the Sunni position. It is a straightforward question that seeks a direct answer.

By standing up and refusing to accept Yazeed as a leader of the Muslim Ummah. Because Yazeed wasn't fit to govern and under his reign Islam, its principles and values were at stake. I've already mentioned in detail why. Hussein had a choice but refused to give allegiance point blank and was willing to and did sacrifice all.

Where Abu bakr(ra), Umar(ra), Uthman(ra) and Muawiya(ra) fit to govern? And wasn't Islam, its values and principles weren't at stake during their rule ?  If No, then why didn't Ali(ra), save Islam?

Your questions are irrelevant to the thread. Otherwise I would love to answer.
Lol.

Farid

Re: How did Al-Hussain save Islam?
« Reply #5 on: October 09, 2017, 01:15:36 AM »
Iceman:

There were others that rejected Yazeed in Makkah, Madinah, Kufa, etc. You do not say that they all saved Islam.

So again, how is standing up against Yazeed saving Islam?

iceman

Re: How did Al-Hussain save Islam?
« Reply #6 on: October 09, 2017, 01:16:01 AM »
Shias say he willingly sacrificed himself and his family for Islam... and the latter is obviously not permissible according to the Shari'ah.

Sunni reports and the most authentic Shia report agree that Al Hussain attempted to back out of Karbala to avoid a massacre, which shows that he did not want to get him or his family killed.

Are there any Shias here that can explain how Al Hussain's actions saved Islam?

Previous thread has been closed due to irrelevant content. Sunnis, please do not bash Shias. Shias, please provide direct answers. Copy and paste jobs will not be tolerated.

This topic is NOT for discussion Al-Hussain's wisdom of traveling to Kufa. It is not about discussing the Sunni position. It is a straightforward question that seeks a direct answer.

By standing up and refusing to accept Yazeed as a leader of the Muslim Ummah. Because Yazeed wasn't fit to govern and under his reign Islam, its principles and values were at stake. I've already mentioned in detail why. Hussein had a choice but refused to give allegiance point blank and was willing to and did sacrifice all.

Where Abu bakr(ra), Umar(ra), Uthman(ra) and Muawiya(ra) fit to govern? And wasn't Islam, its values and principles weren't at stake during their rule ?  If No, then why didn't Ali(ra), save Islam?

Your questions are irrelevant to the thread. Otherwise I would love to answer.
Lol.

Oh yes. Otherwise he (Farid) will close this one down too.

iceman

Re: How did Al-Hussain save Islam?
« Reply #7 on: October 09, 2017, 01:17:24 AM »
Iceman:

There were others that rejected Yazeed in Makkah, Madinah, Kufa, etc. You do not say that they all saved Islam.

So again, how is standing up against Yazeed saving Islam?

For example who and how?

Noor-us-Sunnah

Re: How did Al-Hussain save Islam?
« Reply #8 on: October 09, 2017, 01:32:20 AM »
Iceman:

There were others that rejected Yazeed in Makkah, Madinah, Kufa, etc. You do not say that they all saved Islam.

So again, how is standing up against Yazeed saving Islam?

For example who and how?

Who= Abullah ibn Zubayr(ra).

How= Try to re-read the incident of al-harrah, this is one of the most strongest proofs you guys use against yazeed to legitimize cursing him, and ironically you people have no clue about this incident, yet you blindly keep using it.

Link

Re: How did Al-Hussain save Islam?
« Reply #9 on: October 09, 2017, 01:59:42 AM »
I believe he attempted to save Islam but that Islam was not saved at the end, well not at least was his intended goal, he intended to steer the nation back on course and rose with hope that was crushed and to risk in accepting the promises which ended in betrayal.

Imam Hussain, however, showed we should be willing to take risks and ready to sacrifice and lose everything in this risk, in shaping the destiny of humans.

It shows the path of courage which is the path Quran calls to.

In this sense, all Imams and their example and legacy was an important part of keeping the true light alive. The light although not very much people truly see it as it meant to be seen, is still alive in some hearts, and can be found if you search the truth in Quran through the help of Sunnah. In this sense the religion remains strong in the sense clear proofs and way to knowledge of it remain while in the past, the truth would become so hard to find, and there would be no easy means as opposed to today.

As for the apathy - of doing nothing and just watching oppression - as opposed to rising for justice and striving in God's way,  as for apathy and just watching and not forbidding evil and command to good- according to Quran and Ahlulbayt (as) they share and are put under the same crime as the oppressor.

Islam and apathy don't go together, neither is the mockery of God's proof or belittling God's verses to the extent of misplacing them all from their essential roles and place in the Quran.

Courage in times of when shadows rule and try to scare humanity - we are going to need a lot of it if we are to change the destiny of humanity into easy victory where most benefit, instead of destruction of most with saving of a few which has been the track of previous warnings.



Love of the family of Yaseen is the light of the heavens and the earth.

Zlatan Ibrahimovic

Re: How did Al-Hussain save Islam?
« Reply #10 on: October 09, 2017, 04:14:38 AM »
Sunni reports and the most authentic Shia report agree that Al Hussain attempted to back out of Karbala to avoid a massacre, which shows that he did not want to get him or his family killed.

Perhaps you didn't see my comment in the previous thread. I asked to see these Shi'i reports.
محور المقاومة والممانعة

Hadrami

Re: How did Al-Hussain save Islam?
« Reply #11 on: October 09, 2017, 07:05:35 AM »
Your questions are irrelevant to the thread. Otherwise I would love to answer.

His question is relevant, because you claim husayn ra saved Islam by trying to prevent Yazid's reign who was unfit to govern. It means that Abu Bakr, Umar & Uthman were fit to govern since Husayn did nothing similar to prevent their reign. You are contradicting your own belief
« Last Edit: October 09, 2017, 07:09:40 AM by Hadrami »

Farid

Re: How did Al-Hussain save Islam?
« Reply #12 on: October 09, 2017, 09:49:28 AM »
@ zlatan

You can order it from here: http://www.daralmahaja.com/home/bookdetails/MTA4NA==/0

I don't know if it is available in PDF. Keep in mind that this is different from other editions of the book that have been attributed to Abi Mikhnaf.

iceman

Re: How did Al-Hussain save Islam?
« Reply #13 on: October 09, 2017, 10:01:55 AM »
Your questions are irrelevant to the thread. Otherwise I would love to answer.

His question is relevant, because you claim husayn ra saved Islam by trying to prevent Yazid's reign who was unfit to govern. It means that Abu Bakr, Umar & Uthman were fit to govern since Husayn did nothing similar to prevent their reign. You are contradicting your own belief

No, they are irrelevant to this thread because they are off topic. I have already answered this in the previous closed thread. But if Farid tells to proceed I will happily answer it. Agreeing or not agreeing with what one says is a different matter.

Ijtaba

Re: How did Al-Hussain save Islam?
« Reply #14 on: October 09, 2017, 03:54:59 PM »
Shias say he willingly sacrificed himself and his family for Islam... and the latter is obviously not permissible according to the Shari'ah.

By saying he (a.s) willingly sacrificed himself (a.s) and his family (a.s) for Islam means that they (a.s) chose death over pledging allegiance to Yazid.

Sunni reports and the most authentic Shia report agree that Al Hussain attempted to back out of Karbala to avoid a massacre, which shows that he did not want to get him or his family killed.

True. Imam Hussain (a.s) never wanted himself (a.s) nor his family (a.s) to get killed. But when two options were given to Imam Hussain (a.s) i.e. either pledge of allegiance or death... Imam Hussain (a.s) and his family (a.s) and close companions chose death.

Are there any Shias here that can explain how Al Hussain's actions saved Islam?

We believe all our Imams's actions (from Imam Ali a.s to Imam Mehdi a.s) saved Islam. However Imam Hussain's (a.s) sacrificing himself (a.s) and his family (a.s) for the cause of Islam is something which brings sorrow and sadness to one's heart as they (a.s) were killed mercilessly by evil people who were concerned in beautifying their world.

Hani

Re: How did Al-Hussain save Islam?
« Reply #15 on: October 09, 2017, 08:31:30 PM »
I believe he attempted to save Islam but that Islam was not saved at the end, well not at least was his intended goal, he intended to steer the nation back on course and rose with hope that was crushed and to risk in accepting the promises which ended in betrayal.

Thank you.

Alright, one Shia has answered.
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

Hani

Re: How did Al-Hussain save Islam?
« Reply #16 on: October 09, 2017, 09:01:16 PM »

We believe all our Imams's actions (from Imam Ali a.s to Imam Mehdi a.s) saved Islam. However Imam Hussain's (a.s) sacrificing himself (a.s) and his family (a.s) for the cause of Islam is something which brings sorrow and sadness to one's heart as they (a.s) were killed mercilessly by evil people who were concerned in beautifying their world.


You can't say "I believe all his actions saved Islam" that's a cop-out. You have to tell us what needed saving in Islam and how it was saved during Karbala'?

I see it as a personal victory for Husayn for he's going to heaven as promised. I see it as a loss and defeat for Muslims and Islam. When we lose a great man and unique personality, that's a loss for us not a victory. If that's the Shia definition of victory then I'd rather be defeated, a few more "victories" like these and we'd be down the gutter.
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

Hani

Re: How did Al-Hussain save Islam?
« Reply #17 on: October 09, 2017, 09:05:57 PM »
Let's give an example, let's say China is oppressing Ughur Muslims, Iran wants to play a leadership role in saving an oppressed Muslims minority. Iran wages war on China; China fires a couple of nukes and wipes Iran off the face of the map in 2-3 days; Ughur are now a lot more oppressed and Iran doesn't exist.

Is this a victory or defeat? Are we going to say Iran stood up to tyranny so it's a victory for Iran? What definition do we have of victory here exactly?
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

Imam Ali

Re: How did Al-Hussain save Islam?
« Reply #18 on: October 09, 2017, 09:49:52 PM »
Sacrifice, LOL.

Hussain (RA) did NOT sacrifice anything & Hussain (RA) made a MISTAKE going to Kufa.

Hussain's (RA) martyrdom did not cause a fast rebellion against Yazid, that resulted to him exiting the Caliphate. What happened to Hussain (RA), and his family was nothing more than political genocide.

If Hussain (RA) knew he was going to be mutilated let alone killed, then there was no need for him to ponder over the letters, and decide whether he should go or not. It was futile to send Muslim Ibn Aqeel to scout. Hussain (RA) made ijtehed, and it turned out to be a rash one, as he went against the advise from his own extended family members, and companions of his grandfather (SAW), who are far superior to him in rank.

Hussain (RA) is in Jannah Al-Firdaus for living a life in accordance with the Qur'an, and Sunnah not because of what happened at Karbala. His martyrdom was a virtuous bonus for his own account, and reflects his status as not just the grandson of the Prophet (SAW), but more importantly as a devout follower of the Prophet (SAW).

May Allah (SWT) raise us along with him in akirah, as we are his true Shia. :)
« Last Edit: October 09, 2017, 09:51:10 PM by Imam Ali »

iceman

Re: How did Al-Hussain save Islam?
« Reply #19 on: October 09, 2017, 10:58:31 PM »
We're going in absolute circles here. The question has been repeatedly asked and repeatedly answered. This thread ain't going anywhere like the previous one.

 

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