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Why didn't Abu Bakr ban mut'ah?

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Zlatan Ibrahimovic

Why didn't Abu Bakr ban mut'ah?
« on: December 30, 2017, 09:38:15 AM »
How come he didn't? What kind of rightly guided khalifa allows zina or illegitimate versions of marriages?
محور المقاومة والممانعة

Farid

Re: Why didn't Abu Bakr ban mut'ah?
« Reply #1 on: December 30, 2017, 12:18:29 PM »
Because it was already banned. Is there any proof that he knowingly allowed it?

Noor-us-Sunnah

Re: Why didn't Abu Bakr ban mut'ah?
« Reply #2 on: December 30, 2017, 02:07:15 PM »
Because it was already banned. Is there any proof that he knowingly allowed it?
An obvious answer if common sense is used.

Mythbuster1

Re: Why didn't Abu Bakr ban mut'ah?
« Reply #3 on: December 30, 2017, 04:21:46 PM »
Because it was already banned. Is there any proof that he knowingly allowed it?


Subhanallah a simple intelligent answer to a fitna mongering uneducated poster.


Zlatan Ibrahimovic

Re: Why didn't Abu Bakr ban mut'ah?
« Reply #4 on: December 30, 2017, 04:37:18 PM »
Because it was already banned. Is there any proof that he knowingly allowed it?

Jabir's hadith in sahih Muslim.
محور المقاومة والممانعة

Noor-us-Sunnah

Re: Why didn't Abu Bakr ban mut'ah?
« Reply #5 on: December 30, 2017, 06:20:08 PM »
Jabir's hadith in sahih Muslim.

It isn't necessary for the authorities to know about the secret marriage some individuals perform, unless done publicly. Just like drinking alcohol. Except if you claim that valima is performed after Mutah.

Zlatan Ibrahimovic

Re: Why didn't Abu Bakr ban mut'ah?
« Reply #6 on: December 30, 2017, 06:22:00 PM »
It isn't necessary for the authorities to know about the secret marriage some individuals perform, unless done publicly. Just like drinking alcohol. Except if you claim that valima is performed after Mutah.

Also, why were they committing illegitimate marriage after it was banned? They didn't get the message or something? I thought it was publically announced.
محور المقاومة والممانعة

Noor-us-Sunnah

Re: Why didn't Abu Bakr ban mut'ah?
« Reply #7 on: December 30, 2017, 06:27:34 PM »
Also, why were they committing illegitimate marriage after it was banned? They didn't get the message or something? I thought it was publically announced.

It wasn't known to everyone. Nor were all the Sahaba present when this announcement was made.

iceman

Re: Why didn't Abu Bakr ban mut'ah?
« Reply #8 on: January 01, 2018, 04:36:34 AM »
It wasn't known to everyone. Nor were all the Sahaba present when this announcement was made.

What a beautiful excuse.😀

Rationalist

Re: Why didn't Abu Bakr ban mut'ah?
« Reply #9 on: January 01, 2018, 07:44:37 AM »
If Abi bakr allowed it, Umar would have reacted. However, no such historical report exist. Plus Abi Bakr only ruled for 2 years, and in his time there were so many conflicts. Whereas Umar ruled for 10 years. So did this muta discussion even occur? It doesn't seem so.

Hani

Re: Why didn't Abu Bakr ban mut'ah?
« Reply #10 on: January 02, 2018, 12:37:03 AM »
Abi Bakr ruled for a very short time and was mainly preoccupied with establishing a strong Muslim gov that can recover after Riddah and stand up to outside enemies.

Mutah contracts were done privately in extreme conditions according to Ibn Abbas.

Umar clearly told them in the Sahih "if anyone has evidence it was allowed after being forbidden, let them come forth." No one did.
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

Noor-us-Sunnah

Re: Why didn't Abu Bakr ban mut'ah?
« Reply #11 on: January 02, 2018, 12:42:39 AM »
Umar clearly told them in the Sahih "if anyone has evidence it was allowed after being forbidden, let them come forth." No one did.
Spot on.

simplemuslim

Re: Why didn't Abu Bakr ban mut'ah?
« Reply #12 on: January 03, 2018, 09:17:33 AM »

Mutah contracts were done privately in extreme conditions according to Ibn Abbas.

Umar clearly told them in the Sahih "if anyone has evidence it was allowed after being forbidden, let them come forth." No one did.

Then why didn't the sahabas who did these private muta practices come forth? Why didn't ibn Abbas come forth?

Noor-us-Sunnah

Re: Why didn't Abu Bakr ban mut'ah?
« Reply #13 on: January 03, 2018, 12:04:35 PM »
Then why didn't the sahabas who did these private muta practices come forth? Why didn't ibn Abbas come forth?

They didn't because they weren't aware that Prophet(saws) banned it till qiyamah. When Umar(ra) quoted Prophet(saws) that he banned it, they learned this ruling and accepted it.

Ibn Abbas(ra) didn't because it was his personal opinion. He wasn't claiming that Prophet(saws) allowed it.

simplemuslim

Re: Why didn't Abu Bakr ban mut'ah?
« Reply #14 on: January 04, 2018, 09:44:27 PM »
They didn't because they weren't aware that Prophet(saws) banned it till qiyamah. When Umar(ra) quoted Prophet(saws) that he banned it, they learned this ruling and accepted it.

Ibn Abbas(ra) didn't because it was his personal opinion. He wasn't claiming that Prophet(saws) allowed it.

A bit of a poor response brother.

Firstly, these sahabas that were "secretly" practicing (why were they practicing muta in the first place?) were living in Medina and were close to the Prophet (s) so why they were unaware baffles me. I understand if they were living in Syria or Iran or some far away lands but these were residents of Medina.

Secondly, if they were indeed practicing secretly, then how did Umar came to know about it? Was it leaked?

Thirdly, where is the proof from those secret practicing muta sahabas that they accepted Umar's decision? Why didn't ibn Abbas accept Umars decision?

Fourthly and finally, you said "Ibn Abbas(ra) didn't because it was his personal opinion. He wasn't claiming that Prophet(saws) allowed it."

Are you saying despite clear explicit orders from the holy prophet (according to you), ibn abbas still had an opinion that contradicted the prophet's order? How dare he place his "personal opinion" above the clear-cut command of the prophet's (s)? Therefore, this clearly shows he didn't believe the Prophet (S) banned it.

I'm sorry brother but your answers don't hold any serious weight. I believe any neutral person reading this can make a judgment that your argument was lame. No offense!
« Last Edit: January 04, 2018, 09:47:09 PM by simplemuslim »

Khaled

Re: Why didn't Abu Bakr ban mut'ah?
« Reply #15 on: January 04, 2018, 10:36:39 PM »
A bit of a poor response brother.
Disagree

Quote
Firstly, these sahabas that were "secretly" practicing

Secretly doesn't mean they were hiding it, it just means they weren't announcing it.  Such a practice, even today, is practiced "secretly"; do you know of anybody that practices Mut'ah openly?

Quote
(why were they practicing muta in the first place?)

Because the principle in Islam is everything in the Dunya is halal unless prohibited by Allah or His Messenger صلى الله عليه وسلم, since they didn't know it was prohibited, they practiced it.

Quote
were living in Medina and were close to the Prophet (s) so why they were unaware baffles me. I understand if they were living in Syria or Iran or some far away lands but these were residents of Medina.

Not everything that happened to the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم happened in front of every single Sahabi.  Your assumption here is totally out of place as there are a lot of issues that the people of Madina disagreed with each other after the passing of the Messenger صلى الله عليه وسلم.  You see it all the time in history were a scholar's top students disagree with each other regarding that scholar's positions after his death; so why wouldn't you see it from the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم's Companions especially considering how many there are?

Quote
Secondly, if they were indeed practicing secretly, then how did Umar came to know about it? Was it leaked?

Again, secretly is perhaps not the best word, privately is the best word.

Quote
Thirdly, where is the proof from those secret practicing muta sahabas that they accepted Umar's decision? Why didn't ibn Abbas accept Umars decision?

Because people have differences of opinions on things...

Fourthly and finally, you said "Ibn Abbas(ra) didn't because it was his personal opinion. He wasn't claiming that Prophet(saws) allowed it."

Quote
Are you saying despite clear explicit orders from the holy prophet (according to you), ibn abbas still had an opinion that contradicted the prophet's order? How dare he place his "personal opinion" above the clear-cut command of the prophet's (s)? Therefore, this clearly shows he didn't believe the Prophet (S) banned it.

Exactly, he had a different opinion and rejected the idea that the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم's last position was he made it haram.  Heck, he could've understood the banning to be makrooh and not haram, take for example how most of the fuqahaa' understood the order to say أعوذ بالله من الشيطان الرجيم before reading the Qur'an to be mustahabb instead of wajib despite the Qur'an ordering it, and understood eating with your left hand to be makrooh and not haraam despite that the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم banned it.

Quote
I'm sorry brother but your answers don't hold any serious weight. I believe any neutral person reading this can make a judgment that your argument was lame. No offense!

With all due respect, even other Shi'is (Zaidis and Ismailis) who are far from neutral agree with this interpretation.  There is a consensus of all the schools of thought of this Ummah except Ja'faris that Mut'ah was banned by the Prophet صلى الله عيله وسلم, and it was also the opinion of Umar and Ali رضي الله عنه, which take precedence over the Sahaba that initially allowed it.
كلُّ سُلامى من الناس عليه صدقة كلَّ يوم تطلع فيه الشمس، تَعدلُ بين اثنين صدقة، وتعين الرَّجل في دابَّته فتحمله عليها أو ترفع له عليها متاعَه صدقة، والكلمةُ الطيِّبة صدقة، وبكلِّ خطوة تَمشيها إلى الصلاة صدقة، وتُميط الأذى عن الطريق صدقة

Noor-us-Sunnah

Re: Why didn't Abu Bakr ban mut'ah?
« Reply #16 on: January 04, 2018, 10:36:50 PM »
Firstly, these sahabas that were "secretly" practicing (why were they practicing muta in the first place?) were living in Medina and were close to the Prophet (s) so why they were unaware baffles me. I understand if they were living in Syria or Iran or some far away lands but these were residents of Medina.
Sahaba who did Mutah during the lifetime of Prophet(saws) did it when they were out for a battle or were on a journey, even though they were residents of Madinah. So similarly, it is possible that they faced a similar situation, they could be out in a journey, etc. These are assumptions, because there is no certain info about it. The certain info we have is that Prophet(saws) banned it. So I won't bother much thinking about this uncertain things.


Secondly, if they were indeed practicing secretly, then how did Umar came to know about it? Was it leaked?
Probably. Or It's is possible that there rose a situation where in there was a dispute between the man and the woman who were engaged in Mutah and the matter was brought up to Umar(ra) for a judgement. This is how he got to know about it.


Thirdly, where is the proof from those secret practicing muta sahabas that they accepted Umar's decision?
Sahih Muslim Book 008, Number 3250:

Abu Nadra reported: While I was in the company of Jabir b. Abdullah, a person came to him and said that Ibn 'Abbas and Ibn Zubair differed on the two types of Mut'as (muta of Hajj and muta of women), whereupon Jabir said: We used to do these two during the lifetime of Allah's Messenger pbuh Umar then forbade us to do them, and so we did not revert to them.

Ibn Hajar in Fath Al-Bari comments that the last statement{so we did not revert to them} by Jabir(ra) suggests that he sided with the consensus, which is that mutah is prohibited, for if it was permissible, then he would have taught the permissibility of it after the death of Omar(ra).

 Jabir lived for another five decades after Omar and never returned to what was supposedly permissible, nor was he known to having preached the permissibility of mutah. This is evidence that he accepted the prohibition of Omar, since the prohibition of Omar has supporting evidence from the traditions of the Prophet – peace be upon him –

Why didn't ibn Abbas accept Umars decision?
Ibn Abbas(ra) held an odd opinion on this, which was contrary to the majority of Sahaba including Ali(ra). 

He thought that even though Mutah is haram in general(contrary to Shia belief), however in the case of extreme need it will be legalized as done by Prophet(saws). Similar to the meat of dead animal, flesh of swine, etc become legal in case of extreme need. This was his odd and rejected view.

Fourthly and finally, you said "Ibn Abbas(ra) didn't because it was his personal opinion. He wasn't claiming that Prophet(saws) allowed it."

Are you saying despite clear explicit orders from the holy prophet (according to you), ibn abbas still had an opinion that contradicted the prophet's order? How dare he place his "personal opinion" above the clear-cut command of the prophet's (s)?   
Ibn Abbas believed that Mutah was similar to eating of meat of swine, or dead animal, etc. Which clearly establishes he belived Mutah was haram in general. So tell me who made Mutah haram in general condition , if not Prophet(saws)?

As for the rest of the argument refer the answer above. Ibn Abbas differed with majority of Sahaba in his understanding of prohibition by Prophet(saws). He thought it was haram in general, but would become permissible in extreme need. Just like meat of swine becomes permissible. Most likely he made qiyas. And was wrong in his opinion.


I'm sorry brother but your answers don't hold any serious weight. I believe any neutral person reading this can make a judgment that your argument was lame. No offense!

I hold the same view for your arguments.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2018, 10:38:09 PM by Noor-us-Sunnah »

zaid_ibn_ali

Re: Why didn't Abu Bakr ban mut'ah?
« Reply #17 on: January 04, 2018, 10:40:02 PM »
Ibn abbas allowed it in extreme circumstancess only (not same as shia who allow it even if its not in extereme circumstances). Even this opinion of ibn abbas is incorrect according to the majority.
Its a fiqh matter which he got wrong.
There’s always cases where one scholar holds an odd view against the majority opinion on that particular matter.
So get over it will you.

simplemuslim

Re: Why didn't Abu Bakr ban mut'ah?
« Reply #18 on: January 04, 2018, 10:56:47 PM »
Ibn abbas allowed it in extreme circumstancess only (not same as shia who allow it even if its not in extereme circumstances). Even this opinion of ibn abbas is incorrect according to the majority.
Its a fiqh matter which he got wrong.
There’s always cases where one scholar holds an odd view against the majority opinion on that particular matter.
So get over it will you.

Again, another poor excuse. Here are the reasons why:

It does not matter whether it was in extreme case or not. Did the holy Prophet (s) say that it was allowed in extreme cases? So your argument fails here.

You said it is a fiqh matter. How can it be Fiqhi matter against a clear-cut command (according to sunni books) of the holy prophet (s)? If you still stubbornly claim it is a fiqhi matter, then you can't have a go at the shias because they can easily say the same thing (regardless whether in an extreme case or not) that it's their fiqhi matter.

You said "There’s always cases where one scholar holds an odd view against the majority opinion on that particular matter. "

I say: This isn't one scholar holding a view over the majority of other scholars. That would be understandable. This is one scholar holding a view OVER the messenger of Allah's clear explicit command!

Am sorry but these excuses are poor so far to my questions. I believe any fair-minded brother can see this.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2018, 11:01:41 PM by simplemuslim »

Noor-us-Sunnah

Re: Why didn't Abu Bakr ban mut'ah?
« Reply #19 on: January 04, 2018, 11:02:40 PM »
Your main arguments have been answered in reply 16.

 

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