Section.I have one of the greatest virtues of Omar ibn Alkhattab! Listen to this!
Would that be a good idea?
Were we had hadith and comments from Ulamah on ther virtues of each sahaba
ie Abu Bakar vertues
then Umar
then Uthman
then Ali
then each sahabah by name
^ Akhi, this is a general thread about the virtues of the Sahaba. If you want to discuss Omar's cowardice, then you should post in a thread about that, or create a new one.Running fast away from battle leaving the prophet s.a.a.w.w. behind to fight on his own and saving his own skin is one of the greatest virtues and achievements.
I am not trying to limit your freedom to express your views, but I'd like the forums to be as organized as possible. =]
Surah Anfal was revealed about Badr and you're referring to an incident in Hunain which was about 6 years later.Good, so the Ayah is useless and only for badr or is it continuous? You only have one choice if you say it's only for badr and it's useless then you have committed kuffor hence your only option is to say it's continuous making omar in HELL. You accept the Aya as continuous but say the hadith is weak? prove it, you can't. Facts my friend, are painful. >:)
I have a feeling that you don't even know the difference between the two battles. The ayah talks allows fleeing in battle for strategic purposes, which was the situation in Hunain. The muslims ran for cover from a rain of arrows during an ambush. They shortly returned to the Prophet's (صلى الله عليه و سلم) side after al-'Abbas rallied them back to defeat the two disbelieving tribes (Hawazin and Thawqeef). It became a huge victory with lots of war earnings. Facts do hurt (sorry but you aren't my friend).
I have a feeling that you don't even know the difference between the two battles. The ayah talks allows fleeing in battle for strategic purposes, which was the situation in Hunain. The muslims ran for cover from a rain of arrows during an ambush. They shortly returned to the Prophet's (صلى الله عليه و سلم) side after al-'Abbas rallied them back to defeat the two disbelieving tribes (Hawazin and Thawqeef). It became a huge victory with lots of war earnings. Facts do hurt (sorry but you aren't my friend).
Look into the Seerah books about the Battle of Hunain.So bukhari is not a good source? which book is superior to it? Apparently the information in it is false!
وَانْهَزَمَ الْمُسْلِمُونَ، وَانْهَزَمْتُ مَعَهُمْ، فَإِذَا بِعُمَرَ بْنِ الْخَطَّابِ فِي النَّاسِ، فَقُلْتُ لَهُ مَا شَأْنُ النَّاسِ قَالَ أَمْرُ اللَّهِ
[The Muslims were defeated and I too was defeated. Suddenly, I met `Umar bin al-Khattab among the people, I said: "What's the matter with the people!?" He answered: "God's decree."]
What I will tell you is: The above text does not state that `Umar fled. It states people were retreating and this narrator says he met `Umar among the crowd and asked him what was going on and why were people retreating. Simply meeting `Umar among a large crowd in chaotic conditions, does not mean he was retreating, he could have been standing his ground or even moving forward.
That's the most that can be derived from the Arabic text, anything else from your part is guesswork and assumptions:
{And if you obey most of those upon the earth, they will mislead you from the way of Allah. They follow not except assumption, and they are not but falsifying.} [6:116]
How do you know this is AFTER he fled away? Maybe as he was fleeing he met `Umar among the people who weren't fleeing? Are you saying the people who fled did not meet the people who never fled as they were fleeing?HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ;D :D desperate attempt! How does it feel to feel helpless and cornered with no way out especially by a shia? Like it or not the sources show that he ran away HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA!! Thank you bukhari and muslim *tips hat*
You say that but couldn't provide an answer. The man could have easily met `Umar as he was fleeing but that doesn't mean `Umar himself was fleeing.
PS. we have an authentic explicit narration stating he hadn't fled, I'm just discussing this version with you to illustrate that it's not explicit.
How do you know this is AFTER he fled away? Maybe as he was fleeing he met `Umar among the people who weren't fleeing? Are you saying the people who fled did not meet the people who never fled as they were fleeing?
Like I told the other guy, you are like donkey but even more lost. Let me break it down for you again because the truth is shaking you and you are helpless hence why you are the only one trying to refute facts and the others are watching. Let’s take it step by step for your brain. I will be so nice and cut up the hadith to pieces so you can swallow it nicely.
Sahih al-Bukhari 4322
ُ، وَانْهَزَمَ الْمُسْلِمُونَ، وَانْهَزَمْتُ مَعَهُمْ، فَإِذَا بِعُمَرَ بْنِ الْخَطَّابِ فِي النَّاسِ، فَقُلْتُ لَهُ مَا شَأْنُ النَّاسِ قَالَ أَمْرُ اللَّهِ
(1)The Muslims (excepting the Prophet (ﷺ) and some of his companions) started fleeing (2)and I too, fled with them. (3)Suddenly I met `Umar bin Al-Khattab amongst the people (4)and I asked him, "What is wrong with the people?" (5) He said, "It is the order of Allah"
1)The muslims ran away except for the Prophet Muhammed s.a.a.w.w. and a few of his companions.
2)The narrator admits running away with the muslims who ran away (He is now with the group of muslims who fled).
3)Among the muslims who he ran away with, he saw omar ibn alkhattab.
4)The funny part he asked omar what is wrong with the people?
5)Omar said it was the order of Allah order of Allah (he lied and Allah’s s.w. curse is on liars)
Oh and let’s not forget what Allah said about those who run away from battle! Al Anfal 16
بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم
وَمَن يُوَلِّهِمْ يَوْمَئِذٍ دُبُرَهُ إِلَّا مُتَحَرِّفًا لِّقِتَالٍ أَوْ مُتَحَيِّزًا إِلَىٰ فِئَةٍ فَقَدْ بَاءَ بِغَضَبٍ مِّنَ اللَّهِ وَمَأْوَاهُ جَهَنَّمُ ۖ وَبِئْسَ الْمَصِيرُ
صدق الله العلي العظيم
AL Anfal 16
And whoever turns his back to them on such a day, unless swerving [as a strategy] for war or joining [another] company, has certainly returned with anger [upon him] from Allah , and his refuge is Hell - and wretched is the destination. Oh and since you will cry and say “you insulted me!” it is not an Insult, you are one of the group of people who Allah s.w. talks about in Al Araf 179
بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم
بِهَا وَلَهُمْ آذَانٌ لَا يَسْمَعُونَ بِهَا ۚ أُولَئِكَ كَالْأَنْعَامِ بَلْ هُمْ أَضَلُّ ۚ أُولَئِكَ هُمُ الْغَافِلُونَ
صدق الله العلي العظيم
Oh and P.S. this is an authentic hadith which clearly states that he ran. Now you can make up your own hadith like you did about Abu Bakr consulting with Imam Ali a.s. about the leadership of Omar and LIE, but it is okay I will research what you say, get the original hadith and post it like I did to show your lies. I already told you once, now this is twice, I am a shia not a sunni or wahabi who you can lie to like sheep.
1)The muslims ran away except for the Prophet Muhammed s.a.a.w.w. and a few of his companions.
2)The narrator admits running away with the muslims who ran away (He is now with the group of muslims who fled).
3)Among the muslims who he ran away with, he saw omar ibn alkhattab.
4)The funny part he asked omar what is wrong with the people?
5)Omar said it was the order of Allah order of Allah (he lied and Allah’s s.w. curse is on liars)
Let me help you searching for that hadith:
Musnad Imam Ahmad (volume 23 page 274 Hadith #14731, sahih hadith):
حديث مرفوع حَدَّثَنَا يَعْقُوبُ , حَدَّثَنَا أَبِي , عَنِ ابْنِ إِسْحَاقَ , عَنْ عَاصِمِ بْنِ عُمَرَ بْنِ قَتَادَةَ , عَنْ عَبْدِ الرَّحْمَنِ بْنِ جَابِرٍ , عَنْ جَابِرِ بْنِ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ فَانْطَلَقَ النَّاسُ إِلَّا أَنَّ مَعَ رَسُولِ اللهِ صَلَّىاللهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ رَهْطًا مِنَ الْمُهَاجِرِينَ وَالْأَنْصَارِ، وَأَهْلِ بَيْتِهِغَيْرَ كَثِيرٍ، ثَبَتَ مَعَهُ صَلَّى اللهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ أَبُو بَكْرٍ وَعُمَرُ، وَمِنْ أَهْلِ بَيْتِهِ، عَلِيُّ بْنُ أَبِي طَالِبٍ، وَالْعَبَّاسُ بْنُ عَبْدِ الْمُطَّلِبِ، وَابْنُهُ الْفَضْلُ بْنُ عَبَّاسٍ، وَأَبُو سُفْيَانَ بْنُ الْحَارِثِ، وَرَبِيعَةُبْنُ الْحَارِثِ، وَأَيْمَنُ بْنُ عُبَيْدٍ وَهُوَ ابْنُ أُمِّ أَيْمَنَ، وَأُسَامَةُبْنُ زَيْدٍ، قَالَ: وَرَجُلٌ مِنْ هَوَازِنَ عَلَى جَمَلٍ لَهُ أَحْمَرَ فِي يَدِهِرَايَةٌ لَهُ سَوْدَاءُ فِي رَأْسِ رُمْحٍ طَوِيلٍ لَهُ أَمَامَ النَّاسِ، وَهَوَازِنُخَلْفَهُ
Ya’qoub narrated from his Father from Ibn Ishaq from ‘Assim ibn ‘Umar bin Qatada from ‘Abdul-Rahman ibn Jabir from Jabir ibn ‘Abdullah: The people retreated but the Prophet SAWS was accompanied by a group from the Mouhajirun and the Ansar and his Ahlul-Bayt. Those who held their ground and stayed with him were Abu Bakr and ‘Umar and from his Ahlul-Bayt ‘Ali ibn Abi Talib and Al-‘Abbas bin ‘Abdul-Mutallib and his son Al-Fadl and Abu Suffiyan bin al-Harith and Raba’iyah bin Al-Harith and Ayman bin ‘Ubeid and he is ibn Umm-Ayman and Usamah ibn Zaid, he said: and a Man from Hawzan (until the end of the narration).
Awww let me break it down for you little baby, ahmad ibn hanbal is not one of the 6 main sunni books HAHAHHAHAHA!!!!!! Oh, and bukhari and muslims are the 2 most superior books after he Quran according to you HAHAHHAHAHAHA!!!! so much for the pathetic attempt!
I never said it doesn't have authentic narrations, it has LESS authentic narrations that bukhari and muslims which are superior. In this case since ahmad disagreed with bukhari which is one of the 2 books superior after he Quran according to you, Ahmad is wrong Bukhari is right. ;D You are truley pathetic.