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A short interview with a sister on why she left shism and became sunni!

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Shia-Islam.se

What is your religious background?

I am currently a sunni muslim (alhamdulillah) but I was born and raised shia.

How did you view sunnis and sunnism before your conversion?

I had a very mixed view of sunnis and sunni islam. I witnessed sunnis in my area slandering shias including me, and I always heard about shias being oppressed all over the world. I used to dislike sunnis at times because I felt that they hurt me with their words about shias, and at other times I saw them as my siblings in Islam.

What caused you to doubt shism?

I had my ups and downs because I used to be very doubtful about shiism during some points of my life but I also just to be very proud of my identity as a shia because I felt that it was a strong community and also because they face oppression in some parts of the world. I felt that I had a responsebility to be a proud shia and never question the belief, which later changed when I started to feel like things didn’t add up. I started questioning shiism during my early teens, because I had sunni friends who used to ask me questions that I couldn’t answer. The main questions that made me doubt were the following:
How do things like tawassul, imamah and mutaa (temporary marriage) make sense?
Why was the prophet (saw) so close to Omar, abo bakr ra and the sahaba if they weren’t good people?
How do some scholars allow tattoos and self harming during muharram?

How did you get introduced to sunnism?

I started hanging out with more practising (sunni) friends and I also watching youtube videos by sunni lecturers and ulama, which sparked up my interest and I started to feel like home in the community. I was 13 at this point, and I was stopped by my family when they found out about my interest in sunni islam, and since I was very young I was easily affected by the words of my parents. I started becoming a very proud and unapologetic shia at 15-16 and this is when I started becoming a lot more practising than ever. I started getting interested in covering my body more, taking my prayers more seriously and so on. My imaan did become stronger but I never really felt safe and convinced in the religion, which made me have tons of ups and downs. I had a lot of trouble with maintaining my imaan which became a huge problem.

I started drifting away from (what I thought was) islam at times because I didn’t feel at home nor did I feel fully convinced. Then, I started looking into Islam again during the spring/summer of 2018. That was when I fell in love with sunni islam, started looking into the religion, read about it constantly, practiced it, started going to my local mosque and started calling myself sunni alhamdulillah.

How did your family and friends react to you becoming sunni?

It’s not a topic that I willingly bring up, since I do not want to cause unnecessary drama and heartbreak for my family. My older sister thought that I was becoming ”extreme” because I started to implement Islam more in my daily life, and she also told my mum that I was sunni (I hadn’t told her anything but she had her suspicions). My mum still asks me questions to figure out where I stand when it comes to Islam, even though I converted and changed my views over a year ago. I do not have any close shia friends, and my sunni friends were very happy when they found out that I had ”converted”. I think my relatives would freak out if I openly called myself sunni but this is something that I only tell people outside my family, even though it is obvious for them too.

Do you have any message to shias?

The most important things for me was to learn more about tawhid and question tawassul, it will make it very easy for you. Never let yourself be pressured to stick to the beliefs of your family, the fact that your parents want the best for you doesn’t necessarily mean that they know what’s best for you. Question everything you believe and make duaa that Allah swt always guides you.

MuslimK

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Jazakallahu Khayr for sharing.
در خلافت میل نیست ای بی‌خبر
میل کی آید ز بوبکر و عمر
میل اگر بودی در آن دو مقتدا
هر دو کردندی پسر را پیشوا

عطار نِیشابوری

www.Nahjul-Balagha.net | www.TwelverShia.net | www.ghadirkhumm.com

iceman

What is your religious background?

I am currently a sunni muslim (alhamdulillah) but I was born and raised shia.

How did you view sunnis and sunnism before your conversion?

I had a very mixed view of sunnis and sunni islam. I witnessed sunnis in my area slandering shias including me, and I always heard about shias being oppressed all over the world. I used to dislike sunnis at times because I felt that they hurt me with their words about shias, and at other times I saw them as my siblings in Islam.

What caused you to doubt shism?

I had my ups and downs because I used to be very doubtful about shiism during some points of my life but I also just to be very proud of my identity as a shia because I felt that it was a strong community and also because they face oppression in some parts of the world. I felt that I had a responsebility to be a proud shia and never question the belief, which later changed when I started to feel like things didn’t add up. I started questioning shiism during my early teens, because I had sunni friends who used to ask me questions that I couldn’t answer. The main questions that made me doubt were the following:
How do things like tawassul, imamah and mutaa (temporary marriage) make sense?
Why was the prophet (saw) so close to Omar, abo bakr ra and the sahaba if they weren’t good people?
How do some scholars allow tattoos and self harming during muharram?

How did you get introduced to sunnism?

I started hanging out with more practising (sunni) friends and I also watching youtube videos by sunni lecturers and ulama, which sparked up my interest and I started to feel like home in the community. I was 13 at this point, and I was stopped by my family when they found out about my interest in sunni islam, and since I was very young I was easily affected by the words of my parents. I started becoming a very proud and unapologetic shia at 15-16 and this is when I started becoming a lot more practising than ever. I started getting interested in covering my body more, taking my prayers more seriously and so on. My imaan did become stronger but I never really felt safe and convinced in the religion, which made me have tons of ups and downs. I had a lot of trouble with maintaining my imaan which became a huge problem.

I started drifting away from (what I thought was) islam at times because I didn’t feel at home nor did I feel fully convinced. Then, I started looking into Islam again during the spring/summer of 2018. That was when I fell in love with sunni islam, started looking into the religion, read about it constantly, practiced it, started going to my local mosque and started calling myself sunni alhamdulillah.

How did your family and friends react to you becoming sunni?

It’s not a topic that I willingly bring up, since I do not want to cause unnecessary drama and heartbreak for my family. My older sister thought that I was becoming ”extreme” because I started to implement Islam more in my daily life, and she also told my mum that I was sunni (I hadn’t told her anything but she had her suspicions). My mum still asks me questions to figure out where I stand when it comes to Islam, even though I converted and changed my views over a year ago. I do not have any close shia friends, and my sunni friends were very happy when they found out that I had ”converted”. I think my relatives would freak out if I openly called myself sunni but this is something that I only tell people outside my family, even though it is obvious for them too.

Do you have any message to shias?

The most important things for me was to learn more about tawhid and question tawassul, it will make it very easy for you. Never let yourself be pressured to stick to the beliefs of your family, the fact that your parents want the best for you doesn’t necessarily mean that they know what’s best for you. Question everything you believe and make duaa that Allah swt always guides you.

"I had my ups and downs because I used to be very doubtful about shiism during some points of my life"

Why doesn't that come down to your lack of knowledge and understanding about Shia Islam.

"because I had sunni friends who used to ask me questions that I couldn’t answer"

If you had none Muslim friends who asked you questions that you couldn't answer due to young age, then what?

"How do things like tawassul, imamah and mutaa (temporary marriage) make sense?"

Did you ever think of sitting with a known Shia Scholar to discuss your doubts with him, what your not sure about? Or did that thought never cross your mind to look into things.

"Why was the prophet (saw) so close to Omar, abo bakr ra and the sahaba if they weren’t good people?"

Who said they were so bad that they never had a decent bone in their body? And who said they were they so good that they could never err or get anything wrong?

The Prophet s.a.w even accepted those individuals and allowed them to enter Islam and the Muslim community who were at war with the Prophet s.a.w and the Muslims for 20 years. And they only accepted Islam because they had no choice during the taking of Mecca.

"How do some scholars allow tattoos and self harming during muharram?"

Did you get in touch with their office, their representative/spokesman and ask for a thorough explanation regarding those issues. At the end of the day these are matters of fiqh.

"I started hanging out with more practising (sunni) friends"

Why didn't you hang around with more knowledgeable and practising Shia friends to begin with?

"I also watching youtube videos by sunni lecturers and ulama"

I also do this and have been doing this for over a decade now. Just to advance my knowledge and information about Sunni Islam and the various sects and schools of thought within Sunni Islam.

iceman

What is your religious background?

I am currently a sunni muslim (alhamdulillah) but I was born and raised shia.

How did you view sunnis and sunnism before your conversion?

I had a very mixed view of sunnis and sunni islam. I witnessed sunnis in my area slandering shias including me, and I always heard about shias being oppressed all over the world. I used to dislike sunnis at times because I felt that they hurt me with their words about shias, and at other times I saw them as my siblings in Islam.

What caused you to doubt shism?

I had my ups and downs because I used to be very doubtful about shiism during some points of my life but I also just to be very proud of my identity as a shia because I felt that it was a strong community and also because they face oppression in some parts of the world. I felt that I had a responsebility to be a proud shia and never question the belief, which later changed when I started to feel like things didn’t add up. I started questioning shiism during my early teens, because I had sunni friends who used to ask me questions that I couldn’t answer. The main questions that made me doubt were the following:
How do things like tawassul, imamah and mutaa (temporary marriage) make sense?
Why was the prophet (saw) so close to Omar, abo bakr ra and the sahaba if they weren’t good people?
How do some scholars allow tattoos and self harming during muharram?

How did you get introduced to sunnism?

I started hanging out with more practising (sunni) friends and I also watching youtube videos by sunni lecturers and ulama, which sparked up my interest and I started to feel like home in the community. I was 13 at this point, and I was stopped by my family when they found out about my interest in sunni islam, and since I was very young I was easily affected by the words of my parents. I started becoming a very proud and unapologetic shia at 15-16 and this is when I started becoming a lot more practising than ever. I started getting interested in covering my body more, taking my prayers more seriously and so on. My imaan did become stronger but I never really felt safe and convinced in the religion, which made me have tons of ups and downs. I had a lot of trouble with maintaining my imaan which became a huge problem.

I started drifting away from (what I thought was) islam at times because I didn’t feel at home nor did I feel fully convinced. Then, I started looking into Islam again during the spring/summer of 2018. That was when I fell in love with sunni islam, started looking into the religion, read about it constantly, practiced it, started going to my local mosque and started calling myself sunni alhamdulillah.

How did your family and friends react to you becoming sunni?

It’s not a topic that I willingly bring up, since I do not want to cause unnecessary drama and heartbreak for my family. My older sister thought that I was becoming ”extreme” because I started to implement Islam more in my daily life, and she also told my mum that I was sunni (I hadn’t told her anything but she had her suspicions). My mum still asks me questions to figure out where I stand when it comes to Islam, even though I converted and changed my views over a year ago. I do not have any close shia friends, and my sunni friends were very happy when they found out that I had ”converted”. I think my relatives would freak out if I openly called myself sunni but this is something that I only tell people outside my family, even though it is obvious for them too.

Do you have any message to shias?

The most important things for me was to learn more about tawhid and question tawassul, it will make it very easy for you. Never let yourself be pressured to stick to the beliefs of your family, the fact that your parents want the best for you doesn’t necessarily mean that they know what’s best for you. Question everything you believe and make duaa that Allah swt always guides you.

"I started hanging out with more practising (sunni) friends and I also watching youtube videos by sunni lecturers and ulama, which sparked up my interest and I started to feel like home in the community. I was 13 at this point, and I was stopped by my family when they found out about my interest in sunni islam, and since I was very young I was easily affected by the words of my parents"

"I was 13 at this point,"? Very immature and weak age. You knew who you were and what you were at that age but you didn't know why you were. That was down to you immaturity and therefore lack of knowledge and understanding about the Shia faith and belief.

"and I started to feel like home in the community"

Why didn't you feel like home in the community that you were? Why didn't you feel a sense of belonging in that community? May be it had to do with personal problems rather than the belief and faith you were on.

"I was very young I was easily affected "

And not by these Sunni friends that you were hanging around with?
« Last Edit: June 12, 2019, 10:53:22 PM by iceman »

Mythbuster1

What is your religious background?

I am currently a sunni muslim (alhamdulillah) but I was born and raised shia.

How did you view sunnis and sunnism before your conversion?

I had a very mixed view of sunnis and sunni islam. I witnessed sunnis in my area slandering shias including me, and I always heard about shias being oppressed all over the world. I used to dislike sunnis at times because I felt that they hurt me with their words about shias, and at other times I saw them as my siblings in Islam.

What caused you to doubt shism?

I had my ups and downs because I used to be very doubtful about shiism during some points of my life but I also just to be very proud of my identity as a shia because I felt that it was a strong community and also because they face oppression in some parts of the world. I felt that I had a responsebility to be a proud shia and never question the belief, which later changed when I started to feel like things didn’t add up. I started questioning shiism during my early teens, because I had sunni friends who used to ask me questions that I couldn’t answer. The main questions that made me doubt were the following:
How do things like tawassul, imamah and mutaa (temporary marriage) make sense?
Why was the prophet (saw) so close to Omar, abo bakr ra and the sahaba if they weren’t good people?
How do some scholars allow tattoos and self harming during muharram?

How did you get introduced to sunnism?

I started hanging out with more practising (sunni) friends and I also watching youtube videos by sunni lecturers and ulama, which sparked up my interest and I started to feel like home in the community. I was 13 at this point, and I was stopped by my family when they found out about my interest in sunni islam, and since I was very young I was easily affected by the words of my parents. I started becoming a very proud and unapologetic shia at 15-16 and this is when I started becoming a lot more practising than ever. I started getting interested in covering my body more, taking my prayers more seriously and so on. My imaan did become stronger but I never really felt safe and convinced in the religion, which made me have tons of ups and downs. I had a lot of trouble with maintaining my imaan which became a huge problem.

I started drifting away from (what I thought was) islam at times because I didn’t feel at home nor did I feel fully convinced. Then, I started looking into Islam again during the spring/summer of 2018. That was when I fell in love with sunni islam, started looking into the religion, read about it constantly, practiced it, started going to my local mosque and started calling myself sunni alhamdulillah.

How did your family and friends react to you becoming sunni?

It’s not a topic that I willingly bring up, since I do not want to cause unnecessary drama and heartbreak for my family. My older sister thought that I was becoming ”extreme” because I started to implement Islam more in my daily life, and she also told my mum that I was sunni (I hadn’t told her anything but she had her suspicions). My mum still asks me questions to figure out where I stand when it comes to Islam, even though I converted and changed my views over a year ago. I do not have any close shia friends, and my sunni friends were very happy when they found out that I had ”converted”. I think my relatives would freak out if I openly called myself sunni but this is something that I only tell people outside my family, even though it is obvious for them too.

Do you have any message to shias?

The most important things for me was to learn more about tawhid and question tawassul, it will make it very easy for you. Never let yourself be pressured to stick to the beliefs of your family, the fact that your parents want the best for you doesn’t necessarily mean that they know what’s best for you. Question everything you believe and make duaa that Allah swt always guides you.

Alhamdulillah another one of millions of shia who started to see the truth and NOT following lies and propaganda and fairytales told by extremist ghulat family members and lying Zakir’s that can NEVER be backed up by Quran and sunnah.

Alhamdulillah

iceman

What is your religious background?

I am currently a sunni muslim (alhamdulillah) but I was born and raised shia.

How did you view sunnis and sunnism before your conversion?

I had a very mixed view of sunnis and sunni islam. I witnessed sunnis in my area slandering shias including me, and I always heard about shias being oppressed all over the world. I used to dislike sunnis at times because I felt that they hurt me with their words about shias, and at other times I saw them as my siblings in Islam.

What caused you to doubt shism?

I had my ups and downs because I used to be very doubtful about shiism during some points of my life but I also just to be very proud of my identity as a shia because I felt that it was a strong community and also because they face oppression in some parts of the world. I felt that I had a responsebility to be a proud shia and never question the belief, which later changed when I started to feel like things didn’t add up. I started questioning shiism during my early teens, because I had sunni friends who used to ask me questions that I couldn’t answer. The main questions that made me doubt were the following:
How do things like tawassul, imamah and mutaa (temporary marriage) make sense?
Why was the prophet (saw) so close to Omar, abo bakr ra and the sahaba if they weren’t good people?
How do some scholars allow tattoos and self harming during muharram?

How did you get introduced to sunnism?

I started hanging out with more practising (sunni) friends and I also watching youtube videos by sunni lecturers and ulama, which sparked up my interest and I started to feel like home in the community. I was 13 at this point, and I was stopped by my family when they found out about my interest in sunni islam, and since I was very young I was easily affected by the words of my parents. I started becoming a very proud and unapologetic shia at 15-16 and this is when I started becoming a lot more practising than ever. I started getting interested in covering my body more, taking my prayers more seriously and so on. My imaan did become stronger but I never really felt safe and convinced in the religion, which made me have tons of ups and downs. I had a lot of trouble with maintaining my imaan which became a huge problem.

I started drifting away from (what I thought was) islam at times because I didn’t feel at home nor did I feel fully convinced. Then, I started looking into Islam again during the spring/summer of 2018. That was when I fell in love with sunni islam, started looking into the religion, read about it constantly, practiced it, started going to my local mosque and started calling myself sunni alhamdulillah.

How did your family and friends react to you becoming sunni?

It’s not a topic that I willingly bring up, since I do not want to cause unnecessary drama and heartbreak for my family. My older sister thought that I was becoming ”extreme” because I started to implement Islam more in my daily life, and she also told my mum that I was sunni (I hadn’t told her anything but she had her suspicions). My mum still asks me questions to figure out where I stand when it comes to Islam, even though I converted and changed my views over a year ago. I do not have any close shia friends, and my sunni friends were very happy when they found out that I had ”converted”. I think my relatives would freak out if I openly called myself sunni but this is something that I only tell people outside my family, even though it is obvious for them too.

Do you have any message to shias?

The most important things for me was to learn more about tawhid and question tawassul, it will make it very easy for you. Never let yourself be pressured to stick to the beliefs of your family, the fact that your parents want the best for you doesn’t necessarily mean that they know what’s best for you. Question everything you believe and make duaa that Allah swt always guides you.


"I started drifting away from (what I thought was) islam at times because I didn’t feel at home nor did I feel fully convinced"

You didn't mention anything about why you didn't feel at home and what made you not feel at home.

Then, I started looking into Islam again during the spring/summer of 2018. That was when I fell in love with sunni islam"

That's fine. That's ok. What exactly made you fall in love. What was it or about it? This is exactly what I'd like to hear and know.

"I started looking into the religion, read about it constantly"

And what made you attach to it? We've heard roughly about what distracted you from Shiaism. But we haven't heard anything that attracted you to Sunnism. If you can enlighten us on this.

"practiced it, started going to my local mosque and started calling myself sunni alhamdulillah."

Don't understand why you didn't bother with Shiaism. You were born and raised as a Shia but why didn't you bother looking into it rather than just being a clueless Shia.

"I started to implement Islam more in my daily life"

Why didn't you do this when you were a Shia. Or what stopped or prevented you from doing this while you were a shia.

"I do not have any close shia friends"

I don't think you had any at the very beginning.

"my sunni friends were very happy when they found out that I had converted"

I'm sure they must have been.

"I think my relatives would freak out if I openly called myself sunni"

Well they shouldn't. And neither should you worry. That's the beauty of Shia Islam. Ask an expert. Someone who's knowledgeable. We don't have a problem with mixed marriages either. The problem is on the other side. We don't see or call them any different. But they do. That's where the problem is.

whoaretheshia

The most important things for me was to learn more about tawhid and question tawassul, it will make it very easy for you. Never let yourself be pressured to stick to the beliefs of your family, the fact that your parents want the best for you doesn’t necessarily mean that they know what’s best for you. Question everything you believe and make duaa that Allah swt always guides you.

Given the fact we are on the topic of learning about Tawheed, i do recommend that we reflect on the following Salafi beliefs: https://islamqa.info/en/answers/166843/affirmation-that-allah-has-two-feet

"Shaykh ‘Abd ar-Rahmaan al-Barraak (may Allah preserve him) said: This hadeeth confirms that Allah, may He be glorified and exalted, has a foot. Ahl as-Sunnah affirm that Allah has what is mentioned in this hadeeth in a true sense, as they affirm all other divine attributes, as they affirm that He has two hands and two eyes, and they say that He, may He be exalted, has two feet, as is mentioned in the well-known report from Ibn ‘Abbaas that describes the Kursiy (footstool) and says that it is the place for the feet – i.e., the feet of the Lord, may He be glorified and exalted.

The view about the feet and hands is the same, and there is no room for differentiation. "

Allah has a finger (or fingers)





Allah has two feet:




From: https://islamqa.info/en/answers/166843/affirmation-that-allah-has-two-feet

This indicates that it is confirmed that Allah, may He be exalted, has a foot.

Ibn ‘Abbaas (may Allah be pleased with him) said: “The Kursiy (foot stool) is the place of the two feet, and the size of Throne cannot be known.”

This was narrated by Ibn Khuzaymah in at-Tawheed, 1/248, no. 154; Ibn Abi Shaybah in al-‘Arsh, 61; ad-Daarimi in ar-Radd ‘ala al-Muraysi; ‘Abdullah ibn al-Imam Ahmad in as-Sunnah; and al-Haakim in al-Mustadrak, 2/282 – he classed it as saheeh according to the conditions of the two shaykhs (al-Bukhaari and Muslim), and adh-Dhahabi agreed with him. It was also classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Mukhtasar al-‘Uluw, p. 102; and by Ahmad Shaakir in ‘Umdat at-Tafseer, 2/163.

From: https://islamqa.info/en/answers/166843/affirmation-that-allah-has-two-feet


Woman confronts Salafi about Allah having a 'shin'

[/YOUTUBE]


Allah literally 'ascends' and 'descends'






Christian's identify the complete confusion among Salafis and those in their madhab about 'Where is Allah'

"I leave behind for you two weighty things, which if you hold onto, you will never go astray...the Quran and my Ahlulbayt" - Musnad Ibn Rawayh (al-Albani classes Isnaad *independently* as Hasan, and Matn as authentic, as does Al-Arnaut, Ibn Hajar and others.

whoaretheshia

^

We can debate until the sunrises when it comes to petty rijal issues, Shia narrators, odd behaviours, cultural infiltrations, little bits of uncertainty here and there, but if you actually focus on the fundamentals, something everyone is duty bound by, Salafi Tawheed is utterly indefensible. The majority of Muslims (orthodox Sunnis) and Shias agree. Even the Christians agree.

Hanafi-Fiqh Channel sheikh claims that the Salafis are 'the modern day Mujassima':




Biggest difference between Orthodox Sunnis and Salafi-sect is Tawheed/attributes of Allah according to Asrar Rashid



Mumtaz al-Haq refutes Salafis on 'Where is Allah'

"I leave behind for you two weighty things, which if you hold onto, you will never go astray...the Quran and my Ahlulbayt" - Musnad Ibn Rawayh (al-Albani classes Isnaad *independently* as Hasan, and Matn as authentic, as does Al-Arnaut, Ibn Hajar and others.

muslim720

We can debate until the sunrises when it comes to petty rijal issues, Shia narrators, odd behaviours, cultural infiltrations, little bits of uncertainty here and there, but if you actually focus on the fundamentals, something everyone is duty bound by, Salafi Tawheed is utterly indefensible. The majority of Muslims (orthodox Sunnis) and Shias agree. Even the Christians agree.

Weakening the Salafi position does not make Shi'i beliefs and practices any less shirk-ish.  Of the three Shi'i mosques that I frequently visit during Muharram, the imam at the most moderate one of them (self-proclaimed to be non-denominational) told me (and repeated himself when he saw my shocked look) that the Imams (ra) are everything that Allah (swt) is but a notch lower.
"Our coward ran from those in authority" - Iceman (admitting the truth regarding his 12th Imam)

iceman

Weakening the Salafi position does not make Shi'i beliefs and practices any less shirk-ish.  Of the three Shi'i mosques that I frequently visit during Muharram, the imam at the most moderate one of them (self-proclaimed to be non-denominational) told me (and repeated himself when he saw my shocked look) that the Imams (ra) are everything that Allah (swt) is but a notch lower.

Don't know which mosque and it's Imam you got that from. Try following literature but also use logic and reason along with your aql. If I went into a Sunni mosque in some town or village and got to know about Sunnism or Sunni Islam through the Imam of the mosque and god knows how educated and at what level that Imam of the mosque is and started panting a picture of Sunnis by that limited information........I'm sure you're old enough to understand and get the point.

muslim720

Try following literature but also use logic and reason along with your aql.

Try following literature?  Why didn't you follow literature when I proved from your authentic sources that refusal to pay Zakah is apostasy which, in turn, is punishable by death?  As recent as yesterday, you were defending Malik bin Nuwayrah on this forum.

Quote
If I went into a Sunni mosque in some town or village and got to know about Sunnism or Sunni Islam through the Imam of the mosque and god knows how educated and at what level that Imam of the mosque is and started panting a picture of Sunnis by that limited information........I'm sure you're old enough to understand and get the point.

I did not go to "some town or village" but if you do and substantiate the imam's teaching from our authentic sources, you're onto something. 
"Our coward ran from those in authority" - Iceman (admitting the truth regarding his 12th Imam)

iceman

Try following literature?  Why didn't you follow literature  I proved from your authentic sources that refusal to pay Zakah is apostasy which, in turn, is punishable by death?  As recent as yesterday, you were defending Malik bin Nuwayrah on this forum.

I did not go to "some town or village" but if you do and substantiate the imam's teaching from our authentic sources, you're onto something.

"I proved from your authentic sources that refusal to pay Zakah is apostasy which, in turn, is punishable by death?"

We're not going back to this are we. OK, where is the proof? Back it from the Qur'an. Go back to the time of the incident. There were no books apart from the Qur'an at that time. Prove to me that Malik was an apostate or became an apostate from the history books crystal clear. Then prove from the Qur'an that Malik was killed according to the book. GOOD LUCK! Because you'll need it.

muslim720

OK, where is the proof?

Are you really going to stoop to another level of stupidity?  The ahaadith, which I can share again, were in your face the whole time and you were pulling off some "Dancing with the Stars" level dance moves around them.

Quote
Back it from the Qur'an. Go back to the time of the incident. There were no books apart from the Qur'an at that time.

What the hell happened to Qur'an and Ahlul Bayt (ra)?  There were no books apart from the Qur'an but one from among the Second Weighty Thing - in explicit terms - declared those who refused to pay Zakah to be apostates who should receive capital punishment.  In your own books!

Quote
Prove to me that Malik was an apostate or became an apostate from the history books crystal clear.

You say there were no books other than the Qur'an and now you want Malik's apostasy from history books, lol.  You have some terrible logic and general viewpoint.  No wonder you are a Shia!

Quote
Then prove from the Qur'an that Malik was killed according to the book. GOOD LUCK! Because you'll need it.

Applying such strict requirements not only undermine Imamah (since it is not in the Qur'an) but proves that you can disregard your Imams (ra) - just like you disregarded the Qur'an in the other discussion topic - just to save face.
"Our coward ran from those in authority" - Iceman (admitting the truth regarding his 12th Imam)

iceman

Are you really going to stoop to another level of stupidity?  The ahaadith, which I can share again, were in your face the whole time and you were pulling off some "Dancing with the Stars" level dance moves around them.

What the hell happened to Qur'an and Ahlul Bayt (ra)?  There were no books apart from the Qur'an but one from among the Second Weighty Thing - in explicit terms - declared those who refused to pay Zakah to be apostates who should receive capital punishment.  In your own books!

You say there were no books other than the Qur'an and now you want Malik's apostasy from history books, lol.  You have some terrible logic and general viewpoint.  No wonder you are a Shia!

Applying such strict requirements not only undermine Imamah (since it is not in the Qur'an) but proves that you can disregard your Imams (ra) - just like you disregarded the Qur'an in the other discussion topic - just to save face.

We've been through this and discussed it in great detail. The case of Malik bin Nuwayrah isn't clear according to the Ahle Sunnah. There are various reports and nothing is clear. Malik is accused of apostasy and his crime is refusing to pay Zakah. Those who accuse him need to bring clear and cut evidence to back their claim.  And there is nothing clear and cut within the books apart from various and different reports.

Refusing to pay Zakah is one thing but claiming that Zakah isn't obligatory is another. What is Malik actually accused of. And can the accusers prove from the Qur'an that refusing to pay Zakah, refusing to hand over your money as Zakah to the government, what is the punishment for this according to the Qur'an.

At the time of the incident we had the Qur'an. And Umar's words are clear, "we have the book of Allah with us, the book of Allah is sufficient for us", also Umar and some other companions such as Abu Qataadah wanted Khalid to be punished for the crime that he committed. They believe he committed a crime or a grave error at least.

Now we have the book of Allah with us which is sufficient for us, by this book can we bring Malik to justice for the crime we believe he committed. Or bring Khalid to justice for the crime he committed. And that is killing companions of the Prophet s.a.w unlawfully and unjustly.

Adil

^

We can debate until the sunrises when it comes to petty rijal issues, Shia narrators, odd behaviours, cultural infiltrations, little bits of uncertainty here and there, but if you actually focus on the fundamentals, something everyone is duty bound by, Salafi Tawheed is utterly indefensible. The majority of Muslims (orthodox Sunnis) and Shias agree. Even the Christians agree.

Hanafi-Fiqh Channel sheikh claims that the Salafis are 'the modern day Mujassima':


I apologise to the users on this thread for me going slightly off-topic... I was just reading this thread but this guy peaked my interest and I had to make an account.

But I am 99% sure I know this person. He is medical student who regularly uses other forums like TSR on which he is called "Tawheed" and on shiachat he went by the usernames "Monotheism" and "Uthman ibn madhan". He is using the exact same copy pastes and similar style of argument.

This guy, he states on shiachat that whenever sunnis (or salafis as he refers to people who call out shiasiam) bring up wrecked up shia beliefs which are against Tawheed then shia should bring up salafi aqeedah instead and he thinks that this will somehow finish them off argument wise. This is some delusion that hes got himself into, he thinks that it somehow "owns" sunnis who bring up these severe issues with shiasiam.

On student forums, this guy has teamed up with islam haters and even murtads in an attempt to gain leverage over the Islamic society there because most of the clued up sunnis there severely detest shiaism and would never allow him to spread his beliefs. He is a hardcore khameinist with a doctorate in taqiyya. He even tried to take up with qadianis against sunnis. This is the type of person this guy is.

He deactivated his shiachat accounts after some of us found his accounts and started copy pasting his posts across forums unto the student forum and exposing him for it. Now he posts on there using guest accounts.

He even supports bashar and I found him on shiachat making excuses for bashar using barrel bombs by saying that bashar is forced to use such bombs because he is financially weak and cannot use better tech.

I used to pro-unity with shia and even thought marrying shia was okay but this guy, he showed me the reality of the shia. He is by far the worst human being I've encountered in my life. Up to his neck in taqiyya and mentally a slave to dogs like khamenei.

He will commonly try to cause division amongst sunnis by supporting some of them against the other and also he will paint the groups he hates less as orthodox sunnis and the groups he hates more as being less legitimate. Be ware of this guy big time. I am 99% it is him.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2019, 02:20:21 AM by Adil »

Muslimah

I apologise to the users on this thread for me going slightly off-topic... I was just reading this thread but this guy peaked my interest and I had to make an account.

But I am 99% sure I know this person. He is medical student who regularly uses other forums like TSR on which he is called "Tawheed" and on shiachat he went by the usernames "Monotheism" and "Uthman ibn madhan". He is using the exact same copy pastes and similar style of argument.

This guy, he states on shiachat that whenever sunnis (or salafis as he refers to people who call out shiasiam) bring up wrecked up shia beliefs which are against Tawheed then shia should bring up salafi aqeedah instead and he thinks that this will somehow finish them off argument wise. This is some delusion that hes got himself into, he thinks that it somehow "owns" sunnis who bring up these severe issues with shiasiam.

On student forums, this guy has teamed up with islam haters and even murtads in an attempt to gain leverage over the Islamic society there because most of the clued up sunnis there severely detest shiaism and would never allow him to spread his beliefs. He is a hardcore khameinist with a doctorate in taqiyya. He even tried to take up with qadianis against sunnis. This is the type of person this guy is.

He deactivated his shiachat accounts after some of us found his accounts and started copy pasting his posts across forums unto the student forum and exposing him for it. Now he posts on there using guest accounts.

He even supports bashar and I found him on shiachat making excuses for bashar using barrel bombs by saying that bashar is forced to use such bombs because he is financially weak and cannot use better tech.

I used to pro-unity with shia and even thought marrying shia was okay but this guy, he showed me the reality of the shia. He is by far the worst human being I've encountered in my life. Up to his neck in taqiyya and mentally a slave to dogs like khamenei.

He will commonly try to cause division amongst sunnis by supporting some of them against the other and also he will paint the groups he hates less as orthodox sunnis and the groups he hates more as being less legitimate. Be ware of this guy big time. I am 99% it is him.
He hasn’t changed?

whoaretheshia

Salam,
It is incredibly disappointing that your hatred of Shias has led you to going on a very unfair rampage. I'm half tempted to ask brother Zamestaneh (Salafi brother) to talk to you one to one, and explain to you why what you are doing is not right.

If you had known me that well, you would know i'm no longer a medical student, i had to drop out because of illness and i'm still going through a chronic, life-long health ailment.

On student forums, this guy has teamed up with islam haters and even murtads in an attempt to gain leverage over the Islamic society there because most of the clued up sunnis there severely detest shiaism and would never allow him to spread his beliefs. He is a hardcore khameinist with a doctorate in taqiyya. He even tried to take up with qadianis against sunnis. This is the type of person this guy is.

What actually happened, and i swear by Allah thrice, is that you could not tolerate any sort of post i made quoting Shia works, or Shia books on an Islamic thread meant for Muslim of all groups. You made multiple accounts and began to harass me, because you consider Shias deviant. I asked you many times to consider your behaviour and i opened the doors of reconciliation for you, and yet you didn't cease.

Non-Muslims seeing the vile sectarianism against me, naturally called it out. I thanked them and spoke to them about it, and you consider that 'uniting with the kuffar'? Will you also let the brothers and sisters know that i am the foremost at defending the existence of God, the Quran and alleged contradictions, and i have regularly teamed up to defend the honour and integrity of the Messenger of Allah (saw) against secular attacks? When brothers , and i mean Salafi ones like Zamestaneh are being accused of supporting terrorists, i absolutely made sure to remove that damaging smear and he personally messaged me to thank me.

I am willing to give you the benefit of the doubt here and say you may have misunderstood.

Quote
He deactivated his shiachat accounts after some of us found his accounts and started copy pasting his posts across forums unto the student forum and exposing him for it. Now he posts on there using guest accounts.

Don't lump Shias all into one group. There are Shias out there who support blood letting, cursing revered symbols of Sunnis, performing acts of gross stupidity and i severely clashed with types like that. It isn't good for my health to remain and argue, and so i basically gave up having a permanent presence.

Quote
He even supports bashar and I found him on shiachat making excuses for bashar using barrel bombs by saying that bashar is forced to use such bombs because he is financially weak and cannot use better tech.

SubhanAllah! How well you twist things.

I was the one that called out Bashar al-Assad, the dictator, for his Barrel Bombs. When trying to explain it to a minority who , because of their fear (rightly so) of terrorist groups like al-Nusra, wrongly assume Assad is some good guy and didn't believe me when i told them he has war crimes and also , like the opposition blood on his hands, i had to explain that Assad is resourceless, and he has taken to strategies like that, so it isn't some outlandish thing to claim he is using a Barrel Bomb. This was in the context of those denying he uses them, and i was arguing against their use and trying to convince them he does.

Bashar has a lot of blood on his hands, but i will not let you bully me into supporting groups like al-Nusra, Ahrar Asham et al.

Quote
I used to pro-unity with shia and even thought marrying shia was okay but this guy, he showed me the reality of the shia. He is by far the worst human being I've encountered in my life. Up to his neck in taqiyya and mentally a slave to dogs like khamenei.


This is a lie. You didn't dislike Shias because of me, but you dislike Shias because of 1. Propaganda material you consume 2. Beliefs we have. Let's just be honest there.

Quote
He will commonly try to cause division amongst sunnis by supporting some of them against the other and also he will paint the groups he hates less as orthodox sunnis and the groups he hates more as being less legitimate. Be ware of this guy big time. I am 99% it is him.

I will use arguments and engage in a civil manner. This entire website is dedicated at attacking Shias, so spare me when i decide to make my case against some of the tenants of Salafi Islam. I don't 'hate' anyone by the way.


"I leave behind for you two weighty things, which if you hold onto, you will never go astray...the Quran and my Ahlulbayt" - Musnad Ibn Rawayh (al-Albani classes Isnaad *independently* as Hasan, and Matn as authentic, as does Al-Arnaut, Ibn Hajar and others.

whoaretheshia

..

The scholar i follow is Sayed Fadllulah (may Allah have mercy on him), who forbade cursing companions, blood letting, and a lot of things you see. Please don't lump us all into one group.

As a Shia, am i really going to have my heart opened to Sunni Islam if you continue to talk to me like this, or rather, if you engage with me in a civil manner, like the people on this site do, and discuss my questions and explain where you think i may be wrong on Aqeedah issues.

http://english.bayynat.org/islamicinsights/insight__Islamic_unity.htm
« Last Edit: June 16, 2019, 03:18:26 AM by whoaretheshia »
"I leave behind for you two weighty things, which if you hold onto, you will never go astray...the Quran and my Ahlulbayt" - Musnad Ibn Rawayh (al-Albani classes Isnaad *independently* as Hasan, and Matn as authentic, as does Al-Arnaut, Ibn Hajar and others.

Adil

He hasn’t changed?

It seems not. His reply above is very typical, he always tries to gain sympathy from the audience and tries to paint his detractors as "bad guys who hate shia".

The taqiyyah never ends.

He's type of guy who says no to cursing companions but we found him saying on shiachat to other shia that he doesn't care if they do it or not but that they should do it privately due to the damage that could be caused from people reading.

He tries to aim for the image of the nice polite shia who wants nothing more than peaceful discussion. I haven't read all his posts here but some of you regulars may have noticed this trait. All the while he tries to slyly build up division etc  as I've read here today http://forum.twelvershia.net/general-sunni-vs-shia/hani-(chief-writer-for-tsn)-declares-himself-part-mutazili-in-aqeedah/msg25678/#msg25678
« Last Edit: June 16, 2019, 03:35:42 AM by Adil »

Adil

Salam,
It is incredibly disappointing that your hatred of Shias has led you to going on a very unfair rampage. I'm half tempted to ask brother Zamestaneh (Salafi brother) to talk to you one to one, and explain to you why what you are doing is not right.

If you had known me that well, you would know i'm no longer a medical student, i had to drop out because of illness and i'm still going through a chronic, life-long health ailment.

What actually happened, and i swear by Allah thrice, is that you could not tolerate any sort of post i made quoting Shia works, or Shia books on an Islamic thread meant for Muslim of all groups. You made multiple accounts and began to harass me, because you consider Shias deviant. I asked you many times to consider your behaviour and i opened the doors of reconciliation for you, and yet you didn't cease.

Non-Muslims seeing the vile sectarianism against me, naturally called it out. I thanked them and spoke to them about it, and you consider that 'uniting with the kuffar'? Will you also let the brothers and sisters know that i am the foremost at defending the existence of God, the Quran and alleged contradictions, and i have regularly teamed up to defend the honour and integrity of the Messenger of Allah (saw) against secular attacks? When brothers , and i mean Salafi ones like Zamestaneh are being accused of supporting terrorists, i absolutely made sure to remove that damaging smear and he personally messaged me to thank me.

I am willing to give you the benefit of the doubt here and say you may have misunderstood.

Don't lump Shias all into one group. There are Shias out there who support blood letting, cursing revered symbols of Sunnis, performing acts of gross stupidity and i severely clashed with types like that. It isn't good for my health to remain and argue, and so i basically gave up having a permanent presence.

SubhanAllah! How well you twist things.

I was the one that called out Bashar al-Assad, the dictator, for his Barrel Bombs. When trying to explain it to a minority who , because of their fear (rightly so) of terrorist groups like al-Nusra, wrongly assume Assad is some good guy and didn't believe me when i told them he has war crimes and also , like the opposition blood on his hands, i had to explain that Assad is resourceless, and he has taken to strategies like that, so it isn't some outlandish thing to claim he is using a Barrel Bomb. This was in the context of those denying he uses them, and i was arguing against their use and trying to convince them he does.

Bashar has a lot of blood on his hands, but i will not let you bully me into supporting groups like al-Nusra, Ahrar Asham et al.
 

This is a lie. You didn't dislike Shias because of me, but you dislike Shias because of 1. Propaganda material you consume 2. Beliefs we have. Let's just be honest there.

I will use arguments and engage in a civil manner. This entire website is dedicated at attacking Shias, so spare me when i decide to make my case against some of the tenants of Salafi Islam. I don't 'hate' anyone by the way.

Look if you trully have an illness then go and get some rest. I find it hard to believe that someone is so invested into arguing on several different forums but yet is suddenly always ill whenever someone calls them out for their behaviour.

If you are ill then may Allah guide you and grant you shifa.

I do not hate shia, I have shia friends who I would have no problem in saying my beliefs. I do have big problems with khameinists like yourself. This is a common slander you use against me. With all due respect, this is forum of grown ups, accusing someone of being a salafi or a shia hater only works on teenagers, I honestly doubt this method will look believable to the others on here who no doubt have been accused of the same thing as they go through criticising shiaism for all it's flaws.

That Islamic society was never for Muslims of all groups. That is a myth perpetuated by yourself and the Islam haters and the murtads. You all teamed together up against the sunnis. I took issue with all of your posts, the assadist propaganda, the quotes portraying khameni as a friend of sunnis, the "unity" quotes. Swear by Allah all you want but the word of khamenist is worthless. You are a inherently dishonest individual.

Noone is bulllying you. Again, this is not a site of teenagers, this won't work on here.

I saw your post and I recognised you and I think the guys on here need to know the type of individual you are.

 

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