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Another Ex-Shia

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Abu Muhammad

Re: Another Ex-Shia
« Reply #20 on: December 21, 2019, 06:02:27 AM »
"It doesn't matter to you. Even though you are more divided in fiqh than us"

Now that's a cheap shot. How on earth are we more divided?

Are you calling one of your greatest scholars At-Tusi a cheap shot? Because that was his statement and not mine.

Since, I know you don't really read what other people have written, so I posted it again here (with emphasize):

Al-Tusi says in “al-`Iddah fi Usoul al-Fiqh” 1/138:

وذكرت في أكثرها اختلاف الطائفة في العمل بها. وذلك أشهر من أن يخفى، حتى إنك لو تأملت اختلافاتهم في هذه الأحكام وجدته يزيد على اختلاف أبي حنيفة والشافعي ومالك

".....  I have mentioned that the (Twelver) sect differed in following most of them (i.e. imams' narrations). That is too popular and cannot be hidden. In fact, if you observe their difference in the rulings, you would find that they differ more than the difference between Abu Hanifa, Malik and al-Shafi`i."

By the way, don't say that his opinion. That is his observation through years of his study of your sect.

Our Marjas belong to the same school of thought. Yours have a completely different and separate schools of thought. Make some sense. Don't behave that silly.

Still trying to get hold on "name" and be like an ostrich on "contents"? It all started to make sense when you start going deep into the contents. That's what your scholars who studied your fiqh deeply had found (some of their statement I've shared previously). Unless you accuse your own scholars are losing their own sense.

Read the rest of your post. Again those who differ in masail are they more different or the ones who absolutely and completely differ in schools of thought. It's like being in the same school and having difference in opinion and being in different schools to begin with. Who are you trying to fool. You're looking really silly now.

But according to Grand Ayatullah Fadlullah, the difference in opinion within the same school of thought of yours is equivalent to difference of opinions among school of thought i.e. madzahib. Who you are trying to fool now? The Grand Ayatullah?

In his book “al-Ma`alim al-Jadidah lil Marji`iyah al-Shi`iyah” pg.117:

إن المشكلة التي نواجهها في تعدد المرجعيات هي المشكلة التي نواجهها في تعدد المذاهب الفقهية لأن المرجعيات هي مذاهب فقهية متعددة من خلال طبيعة تنوع الفتاوى، وتنوع النظريات في هذا المجال

"The problem that we are facing in having numerous Marja`iyat (plural of Marji`) is the same as that of having numerous Fiqhi Madhabs, because the Marji`iyat are numerous Fiqhi Madhabs in their natural variety of Fatwas and views."

Is he really looking silly now? Or you?

And the difference between you and the Grand Ayatullah is that you are just talking and talking while he is observing the issue through years and years of immersing himself in fiqh of your sect. And he himself an Ayatullah. He is fully aware of what is going on with the Marja'iyat system.

iceman

Re: Another Ex-Shia
« Reply #21 on: December 21, 2019, 11:02:10 PM »
Are you calling one of your greatest scholars At-Tusi a cheap shot? Because that was his statement and not mine.

Since, I know you don't really read what other people have written, so I posted it again here (with emphasize):

Al-Tusi says in “al-`Iddah fi Usoul al-Fiqh” 1/138:

وذكرت في أكثرها اختلاف الطائفة في العمل بها. وذلك أشهر من أن يخفى، حتى إنك لو تأملت اختلافاتهم في هذه الأحكام وجدته يزيد على اختلاف أبي حنيفة والشافعي ومالك

".....  I have mentioned that the (Twelver) sect differed in following most of them (i.e. imams' narrations). That is too popular and cannot be hidden. In fact, if you observe their difference in the rulings, you would find that they differ more than the difference between Abu Hanifa, Malik and al-Shafi`i."

By the way, don't say that his opinion. That is his observation through years of his study of your sect.

Still trying to get hold on "name" and be like an ostrich on "contents"? It all started to make sense when you start going deep into the contents. That's what your scholars who studied your fiqh deeply had found (some of their statement I've shared previously). Unless you accuse your own scholars are losing their own sense.

But according to Grand Ayatullah Fadlullah, the difference in opinion within the same school of thought of yours is equivalent to difference of opinions among school of thought i.e. madzahib. Who you are trying to fool now? The Grand Ayatullah?

In his book “al-Ma`alim al-Jadidah lil Marji`iyah al-Shi`iyah” pg.117:

إن المشكلة التي نواجهها في تعدد المرجعيات هي المشكلة التي نواجهها في تعدد المذاهب الفقهية لأن المرجعيات هي مذاهب فقهية متعددة من خلال طبيعة تنوع الفتاوى، وتنوع النظريات في هذا المجال

"The problem that we are facing in having numerous Marja`iyat (plural of Marji`) is the same as that of having numerous Fiqhi Madhabs, because the Marji`iyat are numerous Fiqhi Madhabs in their natural variety of Fatwas and views."

Is he really looking silly now? Or you?

And the difference between you and the Grand Ayatullah is that you are just talking and talking while he is observing the issue through years and years of immersing himself in fiqh of your sect. And he himself an Ayatullah. He is fully aware of what is going on with the Marja'iyat system.

I'm calling you a cheap shot. You're the one who's desperate that you're running around with a magnifying glass trying to find something and shouting "at last I think I've scored". OK. You put forward an opinion, not a fact but an opinion. Lets go by the opinion and put it alongside the facts.

Shia Marjas, do they differ or did they differ to such an extent were one or a few kicked off a different school of thought in opposition to the other? NO. Despite the differences in fiqh in some areas
do the Marjas still belong to the same school of thought? YES. Do the Marjas send kufr or shirk Fatwas on one another because of their differences? NO. Do the Marjas or are they willing to pray behind one another? YES. Would the follower of one marja pray behind another marja? YES. So these are the facts and you want me to disregard these facts and go by an opinion and take that opinion and give it your desired meaning having total disregard for the facts.

iceman

Re: Another Ex-Shia
« Reply #22 on: December 21, 2019, 11:14:08 PM »
Fatwa: 288/223/L=3/1438)

If the Barelvi Imam does not carry the belief of kufr and shirk then salah is valid behind him with karahat (certain degree of undesirability). However, if the imam of some nearby mosque follows the sunnah and avoids the bida’h, then it is mandatory to offer salah behind him. Our elder Ulama have not absolutely declared the Barelvi kafir or mushrik, hence when there is no other mosque nearby then it shall be allowable in compulsion to offer salah behind a Barelvi Imam.

Note this bit;

"Our elder Ulama have not absolutely declared the Barelvi kafir or mushrik"

https://islamqa.info/en/answers/150265/beliefs-of-the-bareilawis-or-barelvis
« Last Edit: December 21, 2019, 11:23:26 PM by iceman »


Abu Muhammad

Re: Another Ex-Shia
« Reply #24 on: January 05, 2020, 05:46:17 AM »
OK. You put forward an opinion, not a fact but an opinion. Lets go by the opinion and put it alongside the facts.

Shia Marjas, do they differ or did they differ to such an extent were one or a few kicked off a different school of thought in opposition to the other? NO. Despite the differences in fiqh in some areas
do the Marjas still belong to the same school of thought? YES. Do the Marjas send kufr or shirk Fatwas on one another because of their differences? NO. Do the Marjas or are they willing to pray behind one another? YES. Would the follower of one marja pray behind another marja? YES. So these are the facts and you want me to disregard these facts and go by an opinion and take that opinion and give it your desired meaning having total disregard for the facts.

Why do you have Marjas in the first place? Why do Twelvers laymen make taqleed on Marjas and not the Imam Jaafar himself like laymen Sunnis make taqleed on one of the imams from the Sunni's 4 school of thoughts?

That's why, I repeat, those knowlegeable about your sect say this:

إن المشكلة التي نواجهها في تعدد المرجعيات هي المشكلة التي نواجهها في تعدد المذاهب الفقهية لأن المرجعيات هي مذاهب فقهية متعددة من خلال طبيعة تنوع الفتاوى، وتنوع النظريات في هذا المجال

"The problem that we are facing in having numerous Marja`iyat (plural of Marji`) is the same as that of having numerous Fiqhi Madhabs, because the Marji`iyat are numerous Fiqhi Madhabs in their natural variety of Fatwas and views."

Grand Ayatollah Fadhlullah in his book “al-Ma`alim al-Jadidah lil Marji`iyah al-Shi`iyah” pg.117:


Somehow, some people don't have the mental capacity to understand that and yet trying to make fun of which Sunnis to choose from.

Pathetic.

 

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