TwelverShia.net Forum

convert and question - former Shia

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Rationalist

Re: convert and question
« Reply #40 on: February 23, 2015, 01:48:00 PM »

Show me the fatwa in english from a shia website, because honestly I don't trust your translation.

I provided the 12er Shia link. Get someone to verify it.

Grand Ayatullah Al Khoei'i Says in reply to a question in one of his books(Sirat al Najat / صراط النجاة):


1245: هل يجوز الكذب على المبدع أو مروج الضلال في مقام الاحتجاج عليه إذا كان الكذب يدحض حجته ويبطل دعاويه الباطلة؟ الخوئي: إذا توقف رد باطله عليه جاز

Question"1245": Is it Possible to Lie or produce Arguments which contain Lies when Debating with a person who Is a Follower of Bida'a (Innovation) and a spreader or Dala'la (Ignorance) If this Lie would Destroy my Opponent's Arguments?

Imam Khoei'i Answers: If it will stop his Falsehood then it is Permissible to do So.
http://www.yasoob.org/books/htm1/m001/06/no0645.html

MuslimK

  • *****
  • Total likes: 255
  • +18/-0
  • یا مقلب القلوب ثبت قلبی علی دینک
    • Refuting Shia allegations everywhere
  • Religion: Sunni
Re: convert and question
« Reply #41 on: February 23, 2015, 02:09:49 PM »
^ They also have a narration attributed to Sajjad ordering the Shia to slander, backbite and lie upon the Sunnis.
 
( إذا رأيتم أهل البدع والريب غير الشيعي أو الشيعي المهتدي فأظهروا البراءة منهم وأكثروا من سبهم والقول فيهم والوقيعة ، وباهتوهم اي ابهتوهم بالكذب والبهتان كي لا يطمعوا في الفساد في الإسلام ويحذرهم الناس )[ تنبيه الخواطر ج 2 ص 162] . [ وسائل الشيعة ج 11 ص 508] .
[ نهج الإنتصار ص 152] .

Imam Al-sajjad (as) said: If you see people of suspicion and innovation other than shias or new shia then show disownment from them and abuse them much, backbit them, make false accusations on them that is, backbite them by attributing lies on them and make false accusations on them.

[tanbiah al-khawatir v.2 p.162,  wasael al-shia v.11 p. 508, Nahj al-intisaar p.152]

در خلافت میل نیست ای بی‌خبر
میل کی آید ز بوبکر و عمر
میل اگر بودی در آن دو مقتدا
هر دو کردندی پسر را پیشوا

عطار نِیشابوری

www.Nahjul-Balagha.net | www.TwelverShia.net | www.ghadirkhumm.com

Husayn

Re: convert and question
« Reply #42 on: February 23, 2015, 02:13:25 PM »
Not only lying, but stealing is also permissible.

I was once given a book by a Sunni friend. The book was an expose on Khomeini and some of his fatawa - with regard to the Companions, Wives of the Prophet, his opinion of Ahlul Sunnah, and some apparently weird things he did in Iraq (of a sexual nature) and some of his fatawa with regard to sexual acts with infants.

Anyway - I gave it to a learned one at my mosque, and basically, instead of refuting it, he threw it in the bin, and told me to tell my Sunni friend that we lost it.
إن يتبعون إلا الظن وما تهوى الأنفس

Hani

Re: convert and question
« Reply #43 on: February 23, 2015, 03:38:34 PM »
^ "Amanah" or TRUST, should have prevented him from throwing someone else's possession in a trash bin. Especially that it contains the word "Allah".
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

Hadrami

Re: convert and question
« Reply #44 on: February 24, 2015, 12:09:34 AM »
^So what do you think of Majlisi now? Anyhow, I think this is a good read. http://twelvershia.net/2014/02/19/response-to-hadeeth-17000-verses-in-the-quraan-saheeh/

You can show this one, it's from shitism scholar's mouth. One of shia greatest scholar said the proofs for belief in tahrif is as many as belief in imamah. Still you hear shia saying they don't belief in such a stuff  :D





Why don't you post the entire video, why just four minutes? Sayyid Kamal is criticizing Allamah al Majlisi if you watched the full video. Yes, the usual clips and crops by America-funded nasibi "RafidiTerminator" and the stupid sectarian salafis actually believe it. Good job Salafi Fox News.

Are you an idiot? No one is trying to hide anything. In that video he criticised al-Majlisi. You are the one whos trying to hide the fact that Tahrif is a popular belief among your Biggest scholars.

Hadrami

Re: convert and question
« Reply #45 on: February 24, 2015, 12:24:00 AM »
Anyway - I gave it to a learned one at my mosque, and basically, instead of refuting it, he threw it in the bin, and told me to tell my Sunni friend that we lost it.

So that learned shia have all the qualities of a thief, a liar & a coward all in one.

And what did you tell your sunni friend? You ended up lying or took the book from the bin?

Husayn

Re: convert and question
« Reply #46 on: February 24, 2015, 12:28:40 AM »
Unfortunately, I told my friend that I lost it - I was about 15-16 at the time, was just starting to become an extremist rafidi.

And this "learned one" that I mentioned was the Sayyid/Imam at the mosque - very respected figure.
إن يتبعون إلا الظن وما تهوى الأنفس

Bolani Muslim

Re: convert and question
« Reply #47 on: February 24, 2015, 01:43:47 AM »
I asked my mullah once why do Sunnis say (ra) and not (as) for non-prophets? His response was that Sunnis only say (as) for Yazid, lol.
This is coming from a guy who claims one of his main studies in Qom was research into other sects of Islam.

Hani

Re: convert and question
« Reply #48 on: February 24, 2015, 02:16:13 AM »
Interesting, means these guys are just plainly fooling their followers... SubhanAllah. Muhammad (saw) would never treat his followers like such.

Quote
America-funded nasibi "RafidiTerminator"

America funded? Dude, we know the guy personally, he's an Arab living in the Arab world, nowhere near being "American-funded", besides what funding would it require to make these simple amateur videos? He's just cutting parts from Shia lectures and clips online and translating them.
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

Rationalist

Re: convert and question - former Shia
« Reply #49 on: February 24, 2015, 04:42:59 AM »
^ They also have a narration attributed to Sajjad ordering the Shia to slander, backbite and lie upon the Sunnis.
 
( إذا رأيتم أهل البدع والريب غير الشيعي أو الشيعي المهتدي فأظهروا البراءة منهم وأكثروا من سبهم والقول فيهم والوقيعة ، وباهتوهم اي ابهتوهم بالكذب والبهتان كي لا يطمعوا في الفساد في الإسلام ويحذرهم الناس )[ تنبيه الخواطر ج 2 ص 162] . [ وسائل الشيعة ج 11 ص 508] .
[ نهج الإنتصار ص 152] .

Imam Al-sajjad (as) said: If you see people of suspicion and innovation other than shias or new shia then show disownment from them and abuse them much, backbit them, make false accusations on them that is, backbite them by attributing lies on them and make false accusations on them.

[tanbiah al-khawatir v.2 p.162,  wasael al-shia v.11 p. 508, Nahj al-intisaar p.152]



I also got corrected on shi'achat by a 12er  who said Taqiyyah isn't only for death situations in their madhab.


Q Since when is this taqiyah ? This is just practicing good character. Taqiyah is done when you present your belief and you'llget killed as a result.


That's just one side of it. As you see in the link I posted, part of taqiyya is even praying in the first row at Sunni masajid, visiting their homes and funerals, etc. The point is we cannot be openly against what you believe as the majority, because that risks the bond between Muslims and sometimes it even risks our lives. Many of the early Shi'ah even had kept it a secret that they were Shi'i.

http://www.shiachat.com/forum/topic/234971164-taqiya-the-shia-concept/?p=1986660

Hani

Re: convert and question - former Shia
« Reply #50 on: February 24, 2015, 04:50:39 AM »
Lewd and dishonorable teachings
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

sawaaiq

Re: convert and question - former Shia
« Reply #51 on: February 24, 2015, 09:59:20 PM »
Quote
Why don't you post the entire video, why just four minutes? Sayyid Kamal is criticizing Allamah al Majlisi if you watched the full video. Yes, the usual clips and crops by America-funded nasibi "RafidiTerminator" and the stupid sectarian salafis actually believe it. Good job Salafi Fox News.

Where's the proof, Ameen and Labelling lie in every post they make

MissyB786

Re: convert and question - former Shia
« Reply #52 on: March 10, 2015, 01:43:50 AM »
I don't understand when the evidence is given from their literature/scholars/books, they still say what 'RELIABLE' shia scholar/'RELIABLE' shia book says that. 

Ok if they don't believe the evidence given to them, perhaps they shud bring evidence to support their claims that they dont believe that.

Furkan

Re: convert and question - former Shia
« Reply #53 on: March 10, 2015, 02:35:24 AM »
It's a cult, that's why.

A shiite responded to me once like this:

" First I have to send this to my marja, i have to wait a month maybe, and then I can see if it's really like that or not"

Before Qazî Mihemed, President of the first kurdish Republic Mahabad was hanged the iranian judge asked:

“last words?”

Qazî: “I thank Allah: even in death he put my shoes above your heads”

Hadrami

Re: convert and question - former Shia
« Reply #54 on: March 10, 2015, 05:43:52 AM »
It's a cult, that's why.

A shiite responded to me once like this:

" First I have to send this to my marja, i have to wait a month maybe, and then I can see if it's really like that or not"



i suppose youre still waiting for him after months? :D

Furkan

Re: convert and question - former Shia
« Reply #55 on: March 10, 2015, 12:01:08 PM »
Lol no. I gave up. Pointless discussing with them.
Before Qazî Mihemed, President of the first kurdish Republic Mahabad was hanged the iranian judge asked:

“last words?”

Qazî: “I thank Allah: even in death he put my shoes above your heads”

labelingtheory

Re: convert and question - former Shia
« Reply #56 on: March 10, 2015, 04:53:37 PM »
Lol no. I gave up. Pointless discussing with them.

Maybe you should talk to legitimate scholars instead of talking to random people on the internet.
Every time I post here I get multiple people calling me a rafiza, liar, or am told I am doing taqiyya. There is really no reason to be on this forum since even if I dispute the lies I still get slandered and am told that I am probably lying anyways.

Thank you for the one or two people that actually have aklhaq on this forum and have replied to my posts, if I am ever on here it will be to reply to those people. The amount of trolls here is enough reason to leave.

Khaled

Re: convert and question - former Shia
« Reply #57 on: March 10, 2015, 08:17:00 PM »

Maybe you should talk to legitimate scholars...

السلام عليكم

Can you give us a name of a legitimate scholar?  Who do you refer to when you have an issue?  Do you refer to just one Marji3 or do you go to different ones depending on whether you're asking a question on a different topics?  I.e. you go to a certain Marji3 if you have questions on fiqh, and a certain Marji3 if you have a question aqeedah etc.  بارك الله فيك
كلُّ سُلامى من الناس عليه صدقة كلَّ يوم تطلع فيه الشمس، تَعدلُ بين اثنين صدقة، وتعين الرَّجل في دابَّته فتحمله عليها أو ترفع له عليها متاعَه صدقة، والكلمةُ الطيِّبة صدقة، وبكلِّ خطوة تَمشيها إلى الصلاة صدقة، وتُميط الأذى عن الطريق صدقة

Furkan

Re: convert and question - former Shia
« Reply #58 on: March 10, 2015, 08:22:43 PM »
People will take you guys seriously if you start reading what TS team has written already on their page. You guys keep coming with the same stuff over and over. For example: Accusing Umar of tahreef, shows the ignorance of the rafidi because the rafidi just repeats what he has read on other websites without even researching what Abrogation of quran verses means.
Before Qazî Mihemed, President of the first kurdish Republic Mahabad was hanged the iranian judge asked:

“last words?”

Qazî: “I thank Allah: even in death he put my shoes above your heads”

 

Related Topics

  Subject / Started by Replies Last post
0 Replies
1137 Views
Last post October 15, 2015, 05:48:57 AM
by Bolani Muslim
1 Replies
993 Views
Last post March 04, 2016, 01:49:45 AM
by Hani
3 Replies
1746 Views
Last post March 14, 2016, 10:23:48 PM
by Hani
29 Replies
4613 Views
Last post July 13, 2016, 06:57:50 PM
by ShiaMan