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Difference Between Qadianis and Lahori Ahmadis

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zaid_ibn_ali

Re: Difference Between Qadianis and Lahori Ahmadis
« Reply #60 on: July 15, 2017, 08:26:49 PM »
A prophet/messenger/messiah/mujaddid who couldn't even speak fluently the language of the Quran i.e arabic?


ZulFiqar

Re: Difference Between Qadianis and Lahori Ahmadis
« Reply #61 on: July 15, 2017, 09:55:08 PM »
A prophet/messenger/messiah/mujaddid who couldn't even speak fluently the language of the Quran i.e arabic?

Most Prophets couldn't speak Arabic at all, so what's your point? Ghulam Ahmad wasn't an Arab.
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zaid_ibn_ali

Re: Difference Between Qadianis and Lahori Ahmadis
« Reply #62 on: July 16, 2017, 12:26:05 AM »
Lets not confuse prophet's of previous scriptures with Islam post final revelation.

Every true mujadid since the Quran was revealed could speak the language fluently.

Mirza couldn't.


ZulFiqar

Re: Difference Between Qadianis and Lahori Ahmadis
« Reply #63 on: July 16, 2017, 12:31:10 AM »
Lets not confuse prophet's of previous scriptures with Islam post final revelation.

Every true mujadid since the Quran was revealed could speak the language fluently.

Mirza couldn't.

Mirza Ghulam Ahmad could speak and write Arabic fluently.

But what proof do you have the all the previous Mujaddideen, especially the non-Arabs from among them, could speak Arabic fluently? What is your proof for Mujaddid Alf Thani Ahmad Sirhindi for example? And who according to you is the Mujaddid of the 14th and 15th centuries?
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zaid_ibn_ali

Re: Difference Between Qadianis and Lahori Ahmadis
« Reply #64 on: July 16, 2017, 12:35:24 AM »
How fluent? Your own leader admitted he couldn't pronounce certain arabic properly.

I don't know who the mujadids were.

What is ironic is that you wrote the following in another thread:

" This Dr. Zakir Naik used to impress people back in the day with how he could so quickly quote the chapter and verse of the Quran and Bible. But apart from that he is nothing. He cannot even recite the Quran properly, and he has no in depth knowledge of Islam or even science. "

That was about zakir nail a basic speaker. So what about a prophet/messiah like mirza??

ZulFiqar

Re: Difference Between Qadianis and Lahori Ahmadis
« Reply #65 on: July 16, 2017, 12:39:16 AM »
How fluent? Your own leader admitted he couldn't pronounce certain arabic properly.

I don't know who the mujadids were.

What is ironic is that you wrote the following in another thread:

" This Dr. Zakir Naik used to impress people back in the day with how he could so quickly quote the chapter and verse of the Quran and Bible. But apart from that he is nothing. He cannot even recite the Quran properly, and he has no in depth knowledge of Islam or even science. "

That was about zakir nail a basic speaker. So what about a prophet/messiah like mirza??

If you don't know who the Mujaddids are how did you claim "Every true Mujaddid since the Quran was revealed could speak the language fluently" ??

The quotations you brought forward did not say that Ghulam Ahmad could not speak Arabic fluently.

I said that Dr. Zakir Naik cannot recite the Quran properly, not that he cannot speak Arabic fluently (which obviously he can't).
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zaid_ibn_ali

Re: Difference Between Qadianis and Lahori Ahmadis
« Reply #66 on: July 16, 2017, 01:29:18 AM »
Its an assumption.
An obvious one.
Is there any documented report of anyone who is reliably considered a mujaddid who couldn't speak the language fluently?

Mirza was so fluent that he couldn't pronounce arabic properly??

 




ZulFiqar

Re: Difference Between Qadianis and Lahori Ahmadis
« Reply #67 on: July 16, 2017, 01:31:59 AM »
Its an assumption.
An obvious one.
Is there any documented report of anyone who is reliably considered a mujaddid who couldn't speak the language fluently?

Mirza was so fluent that he couldn't pronounce arabic properly??

Why assumptions? Where's your proof? And Mirza Ghulam Ahmad could pronounce Arabic properly, though he obviously spoke with a non-Arab accent. There are different accents in speaking Arabic even among the Arabs.
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zaid_ibn_ali

Re: Difference Between Qadianis and Lahori Ahmadis
« Reply #68 on: July 16, 2017, 01:39:45 AM »
I need to provide proof that none of the mujajjids messed up on speaking arabic?

I think you're losing the plot now asking me to prove something that I don't believe existed.

I don't believe in Santa so now I have to prove he doesn't exist?

mirza didn't speak in any arabic accent. Thats my point. He spoke desi arabic. If you know arabic properly you will speak & pronounce correctly in at least one accepted form of arabic dialect.

Unfortunately desi mangee is not an accepted form of arabic dialect.




ZulFiqar

Re: Difference Between Qadianis and Lahori Ahmadis
« Reply #69 on: July 16, 2017, 01:44:55 AM »
I need to provide proof that none of the mujajjids messed up on speaking arabic?

I think you're losing the plot now asking me to prove something that I don't believe existed.

I don't believe in Santa so now I have to prove he doesn't exist?

mirza didn't speak in any arabic accent. Thats my point. He spoke desi arabic. If you know arabic properly you will speak & pronounce correctly in at least one accepted form of arabic dialect.

Unfortunately desi mangee is not an accepted form of arabic dialect.

You said all Mujaddideen spoke Arabic fluently and flawlessly. You make a claim so substantiate it.
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zaid_ibn_ali

Re: Difference Between Qadianis and Lahori Ahmadis
« Reply #70 on: July 16, 2017, 02:23:22 AM »
My proof is that no scholar has ever objected to any mujaddid as not being fluent in arabic.

Unless you bring proof that a mujaddid couldn't speak fluent arabic then its good enough for me that no single person ever objected to a mujaddid under such circumstances.

Mirza ghulam ahmed couldn't even speak arabic properly & got caught out.

Some messiah!!!

ZulFiqar

Re: Difference Between Qadianis and Lahori Ahmadis
« Reply #71 on: July 16, 2017, 02:43:13 AM »
My proof is that no scholar has ever objected to any mujaddid as not being fluent in arabic.

Unless you bring proof that a mujaddid couldn't speak fluent arabic then its good enough for me that no single person ever objected to a mujaddid under such circumstances.

Mirza ghulam ahmed couldn't even speak arabic properly & got caught out.

Some messiah!!!

That is not proof that no one objected to them not speaking Arabic fluently. That is your premise that every Mujaddid spoke Arabic flawlessly. You have committed the logical fallacy of petitio principii or begging the question. If you claim every Mujaddid spoke Arabic flawlessly, you have to prove that first, because it is based on that assumption you are basing your second claim that no one objected to their Arabic.
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zaid_ibn_ali

Re: Difference Between Qadianis and Lahori Ahmadis
« Reply #72 on: July 16, 2017, 12:18:27 PM »
I could pick an arab as the mujaddid of each era.

Anyway to me its clear that you're deflecting from the nain issue that mirza messed up & got caught out.


 

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