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Iran's Islamic Revolution

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MuslimK

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Re: Iran's Islamic Revolution
« Reply #40 on: December 06, 2018, 04:21:59 PM »
Imamah and the Iranian regime

Read to see the deception of the Shia authorities (and this has been the case throughout their history). Imamah is just in theory while the reality is something else. They do the opposite of what they believe and what makes them different from the vast majority of the Muslim nation.
در خلافت میل نیست ای بی‌خبر
میل کی آید ز بوبکر و عمر
میل اگر بودی در آن دو مقتدا
هر دو کردندی پسر را پیشوا

عطار نِیشابوری

www.Nahjul-Balagha.net | www.TwelverShia.net | www.ghadirkhumm.com

iceman

Re: Iran's Islamic Revolution
« Reply #41 on: December 07, 2018, 03:12:26 AM »
Imamah and the Iranian regime

Read to see the deception of the Shia authorities (and this has been the case throughout their history). Imamah is just in theory while the reality is something else. They do the opposite of what they believe and what makes them different from the vast majority of the Muslim nation.

Yes I'm going through the article. This bit is the first bit of the article;

Article 5:
[During the Occultation of the Wali al-Asr (may God hasten his reappearance), the wilayah and leadership of the Ummah devolve upon the just [‘adil] and pious [muttaqi] faqih [jurist], who is fully aware of the circumstances of his age; courageous, resourceful, and possessed of administrative ability, will assume the responsibilities of this office in accordance with Article 107.]

Ah, This reminds me of what Ahlul-Sunnah did 1400 years ago when they gave Bay`ah to Abu Bakr (ra) who they believe is the most knowledgeable and senior and resourceful and God fearing, right after the Prophet (saw) passed away. So while the 12th leader of this sect is un-available, the position of leadership “Wilayah” goes to a jurist, a scholar, who is known for being pious, knowledgeable, courageous, and possesses administrative abilities. This happens according to article 107, so let’s check this one out.

Allow me to refute this by bringing out the flaws in the article step by step.

Make a note of this bit first;

"Ah, This reminds me of what Ahlul-Sunnah did 1400 years ago when they gave Bay`ah to Abu Bakr (ra)"

What exactly did the Ahle Sunnah do 1400 years ago? They didn't even EXIST at the time. So what are we talking about here.

And what did they do? They gave bay'ah to Abu Bakr. Excuse me but who? There were just a handful of people at Saqifa with only three Muhajir. And that is including Abu Bakr.

And Saqifa wasn't even a public gathering or an organised event for the selection/election of a leader.

Now lets take a look at the next bit;

"who they believe is the most knowledgeable and senior and resourceful and God fearing, right after the Prophet (saw) passed away"

He wasn't the most........ but infact he was one of the most..........If he was the most.....then I would surely like to see some evidence of this which by the way can easily be refuted.

Now take a look at this;

"So while the 12th leader of this sect is un-available, the position of leadership “Wilayah” goes to......."

A question comes to mind that who was unavailable or what was missing that the position of leadership had to be disputed at Saqifa?

iceman

Re: Iran's Islamic Revolution
« Reply #42 on: December 07, 2018, 03:39:27 AM »
What did Abu bakr say and think about himself, lets have a look at his speech in Saqifa;

"O people, I have been appointed over you, though I am not the best among you. If I do well, then help me; and if I act wrongly, then correct me"

"I AM NOT THE BEST AMONG YOU"

Abu Bakr believes and history tells that he wasn't the best but was one of the best.

And this bit;

"and if I act wrongly, then correct me"

If you act wrongly then you should resign and step down. 😊 And if you ask to be corrected then how are you thee most knowledgeable......etc?

« Last Edit: December 07, 2018, 03:44:06 AM by iceman »

Mythbuster1

Re: Iran's Islamic Revolution
« Reply #43 on: December 07, 2018, 12:30:51 PM »
This simpleton cannot even answer his own theories of promotion😂😂😂👍👍👍


iceman

Re: Iran's Islamic Revolution
« Reply #44 on: December 08, 2018, 08:17:06 AM »
This simpleton cannot even answer his own theories of promotion😂😂😂👍👍👍

ANSWERED MANY MANY TIMES OVER. You're just a GAMER. When are you going to start explaining yourself 😆

iceman

Re: Iran's Islamic Revolution
« Reply #45 on: December 08, 2018, 09:34:52 AM »
Imamah and the Iranian regime

Read to see the deception of the Shia authorities (and this has been the case throughout their history). Imamah is just in theory while the reality is something else. They do the opposite of what they believe and what makes them different from the vast majority of the Muslim nation.

After reading article 107 this is what the writer says;

"Oh, so the people agree upon an elite group of experts, these experts then consult among themselves and elect the next Caliph..err I mean the next Wali al-Faqih of the Shia. It also kinda reminds me of Abu Bakr (ra) who was accepted by a decisive majority of people after being accepted by a group of elites from the Mouhajirun and the Ansar. `Umar bin al-Khattab (ra) also selected a group of six elite companions to elect a leader from among themselves."

Notice this bit;

"It also kinda reminds me of Abu Bakr (ra) who was accepted by a decisive majority of people after being accepted by a group of elites from the Mouhajirun and the Ansar."

Who was accepted by a decisive majority? Never mind of majority, the minority weren't even there. It was just the heads of the Ansar who gathered there to select THEIR OWN LEADER. And the three Muhajir just rushed there to stop something terrible from happening.

And that was if the Ansar went ahead to select their own leader then others would follow. Saqifa wasn't a public assembly or event where an elite group of people gathered to select someone to govern the Ummah. And this is what kills Saqifa and the Ahle Sunnah position and stance on Saqifa.

iceman

Re: Iran's Islamic Revolution
« Reply #46 on: December 08, 2018, 10:15:12 AM »
Note this;

"Umar bin al-Khattab (ra) also selected a group of six elite companions to elect a leader from among themselves."

Why did Umar take the matter into his own hands?

He (Umar) wished this consultation, or shura, to survive the strictest criticism. The six men were:

Ali ibn Abi Talib
Abd al-Rahman ibn Awf
Sad ibn Abi Waqqas
Uthman ibn Affan
Zubayr ibn al-Awwam
Talhah
Umar's expectation seems to have been that the group should choose one among themselves who would be acceptable to all.

Talha was absent and did not reach Medina until after the decision had been made. The choice of a new ruler for the new Islamic empire fell to five men.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2018, 10:17:54 AM by iceman »

iceman

Re: Iran's Islamic Revolution
« Reply #47 on: December 08, 2018, 12:26:14 PM »
Imamah and the Iranian regime

Read to see the deception of the Shia authorities (and this has been the case throughout their history). Imamah is just in theory while the reality is something else. They do the opposite of what they believe and what makes them different from the vast majority of the Muslim nation.

After reading article 6 we have this;

"Well that’s strange, I always thought that we had no choice in the matter of politics, I always thought that the infallible Imam has to lead us and make all the decisions, not public opinion."

That is true. But the writer is missing the point here that this is in the absence of the Imam.

"Okay, so what is your PROOF that human beings can come together and select their own leaders? Because the impression I got when talking to Shia is that the matter of leadership is left to Allah, we can’t pick a leader"

What would the suggestion be in the absence of the Imam. The Muslims disregarded the Imams and the Shias have to stick to this till the appearance of the Imam. What would be the substitute for us. Your question is odd but still needs to be answered. Although you are familiar with the answers already.

After reading article 7 you get this,

"SubhanAllah! What a wonderful surprise this has turned out to be! Apparently the Shia use the exact same Qur’anic proof as Ahlul-Sunnah to prove that leaders must be chosen by consultation, except we reached this conclusion 1400 years ago, whereas it took the Imami Shia more than 1200 years to figure it out."

Notice this bit 'that leaders must be chosen by consultation' Ok. What is the fair and just method and procedure of consultation? Or don't we have one? Or the leader has the right to choose which ever method and procedure they like? If this is the case then it's in the hands of the leader and not the people then is it.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2018, 12:36:03 PM by iceman »

iceman

Re: Iran's Islamic Revolution
« Reply #48 on: December 08, 2018, 12:39:38 PM »
The Sunni community resorted to a variety of methods for selecting and designating the caliph, so that in practice the following elements came to play an important role.

1: Consensus (ijma'). The Sunnis say that the choice of caliph rests first and foremost on selection by the community, so that if the ummah elects a given individual as its leader, he must be accepted as such and his commands must be obeyed.

As proof of this they cite the method followed by the Companions of the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him and his family, after his death. Gathered together at the Saqifah to select a caliph, a majority decided upon Abu Bakr and swore allegiance to him; so that thereby he was recognized by consensus as successor to the Prophet without any objection being raised. This constitutes one method for designating a caliph.

2: The second method consists of Consultation and the exchange of views among the prominent members of the Muslim community. Once they agree among themselves on the choice of a leader for the community, his caliphate becomes legitimate and it is incumbent on everyone to obey him.

This is the method that was adopted by the second caliph. When 'Umar was about to die, he nominated six people as candidates for the caliphate and told them to select one of their own number as leader of the Muslim community by discussing the matter among themselves for not more than six days; if four or five people were able to reach an agreement, the opponent were to be disregarded. A six-man assembly was accordingly convened, and after the necessary deliberations the caliphate was awarded to 'Uthman. This, too, is said to Constitute a legitimate means of selecting the caliph.

3: The third method consists of the caliph nominating his own successor. This happened in the case of 'Umar, who was appointed caliph by Abu Bakr without any objection being raised by the Muslims.

Such, in essence, is the position of the Sunnis on this matter.

iceman

Re: Iran's Islamic Revolution
« Reply #49 on: December 08, 2018, 04:02:33 PM »
"Excuse me, hasn’t God according to the Shia books ordered us to follow the Imams of Ahlul-Bayt? Well they’re nowhere to be found, so according to this introduction god has contradicted his own aim Astaghfirullah. I ask every Shia today, is acquiring guidance easy? The obvious answer is NO. I follow this with another question, does God need to appoint an assistant, an Imam maybe, to help us acquire this guidance? The Shia answer is YES. Where is this guide today? He is hiding and un-available, meaning God has not provided us the assistance necessary to fulfill what he ordered us, this is considered evil negligence based on the above SO PONDER!"

Note the first bit;

"Excuse me, hasn’t God according to the Shia books ordered us to follow the Imams of Ahlul-Bayt?"

Yes he has.

"Well they’re nowhere to be found"

He was ordered into occultation because the Muslims didn't care. They didn't want to know and took matters into their own hands from Saqifa onwards.

"so according to this introduction god has contradicted his own aim Astaghfirullah"

No he hasn't. How did you come to that conclusion.

"I ask every Shia today, is acquiring guidance easy? The obvious answer is NO"

It's up to us how easy or difficult we want to make it. Allah says "I give guidance to those who seek it". You just have to be honest with yourselves.

iceman

Re: Iran's Islamic Revolution
« Reply #50 on: December 08, 2018, 04:28:24 PM »
"I say for us Ahlul-Sunnah it is enough that we pick the man with the desirable qualifications from piety and knowledge and bravery and political skills ect…"

But my dear writer Saqifa wasn't about picking a leader for the Ummah. The three Muhajir didn't go to Saqifa to take part in the selection of a leader for the Ummah on behalf of the Muhajir. They went there to prevent the Ansar from selecting their own leader.

Mythbuster1

Re: Iran's Islamic Revolution
« Reply #51 on: December 22, 2018, 05:08:18 PM »

He was ordered into occultation because the Muslims didn't care. They didn't want to know and took matters into their own hands from Saqifa onwards.

Ordered? Lol ok god sends a guy to spread His word but the guy is scared and god hides him for over 1300 years as it was His order and let the others falsify the religion.🤔

With heroes like that no wonder you never ruled the Muslims or fought for Allah swt, sane people tend not to rely on secondhand information or unsubstantiated facts or in layman’s terms conspiracies hence why you are a small sect with no influence in Islam or the world.

😂😂😂😂 Truth is last one hid  for the simple reason he was gonna get killed.👍

Isn’t martyrdom for the sake of Allah swt the best death? Why would Allah swt hide someone and keep him away from a good death only to be killed by a bearded woman?( bearded woman is in your books)😉

Oh boy the last message didn’t get through cos these quraish were bloody strong and powerful to the point even god according to shiites couldn’t stop them so god hid him, and his previous ancestors, god never gave them success.😉

Do you even THINK before you post?

iceman

Re: Iran's Islamic Revolution
« Reply #52 on: December 23, 2018, 12:16:29 AM »
Ordered? Lol ok god sends a guy to spread His word but the guy is scared and god hides him for over 1300 years as it was His order and let the others falsify the religion.🤔

With heroes like that no wonder you never ruled the Muslims or fought for Allah swt, sane people tend not to rely on secondhand information or unsubstantiated facts or in layman’s terms conspiracies hence why you are a small sect with no influence in Islam or the world.

😂😂😂😂 Truth is last one hid  for the simple reason he was gonna get killed.👍

Isn’t martyrdom for the sake of Allah swt the best death? Why would Allah swt hide someone and keep him away from a good death only to be killed by a bearded woman?( bearded woman is in your books)😉

Oh boy the last message didn’t get through cos these quraish were bloody strong and powerful to the point even god according to shiites couldn’t stop them so god hid him, and his previous ancestors, god never gave them success.😉

Do you even THINK before you post?

"Ordered? Lol ok god sends a guy to spread His word but the guy is scared and god hides him for over 1300 years as it was His order and let the others falsify the religion"

Nope. You've got it all wrong. That's your problem. God didn't send a guy who you're referring to. And that is Al Mahdi. For your information Allah choose people to govern the Ummah after Muhammad s.a.w and introduced them. The Prophet s.a.w was willing to write it then sign and seal it, for whom and for who's benefit. The Ummah. But certain people had a different agenda. One spoke by saying "he is delirious, don't listen to him" and then added "we have the book of Allah and that is sufficient for us"

Nobody was scared or frightened or hesitant. But in fact were considerate, careful and farsighted. They knew Islam was in its infancy and the Muslims were immature. They knew enemies were outside as well as inside after the taking of Mecca. They knew the threat was imminent and the disagreement caused by Umar and his party would cause division and the enemies would take advantage and benefit.

God doesn’t hide him but puts him in occultation and gives the Muslims the chance to do as they please and to get on with it. Just like God put Jesus in occultation because of how he was treated and what they were about to do with him. Since the neglect and disregard of the 11 Imams and the Occultation of the 12th the situation of the Muslims has gone from bad to worse to even worse and will eventually get to terrible and then disastrous until the Ummah will eventually pray and cry for help, then the arrival of the saviour.......

We share the same belief that the saviour will be called Al Mahdi and will be a descendent of Muhammad s.a.w, in other words from his progeny. Not from his companions 😊 We share this belief but only differ on, we believe he is in occultation and you believe he will be born. But we do believe things will eventually get worse and a saviour by that name will appear. 😊

"With heroes like that no wonder you never ruled the Muslims"

So you believe might is right. The other believes winning is triumph. In that case Satan seems to have more followers and the upper hand. That's if we go by your ideology 😊

"😂😂😂😂 Truth is last one hid  for the simple reason he was gonna get killed.👍

And why did Allah hide Jesus? He was about to be crucified, in other words about to be killed. 😊 Think again. This time with an open mind and a grudge free heart.

"hence why you are a small sect with no influence in Islam or the world"

Is that why you've seen us as a massive threat for the past 1400 yet as. So you believe in numbers. So you believe that might and majority is right? Think again by reading the Qur'an.

"Isn’t martyrdom for the sake of Allah swt the best death?"

I think you should read and study the battle of Ohad. How the companions fled at top speed just to save their lives.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2018, 12:31:11 AM by iceman »

Rationalist

Re: Iran's Islamic Revolution
« Reply #53 on: December 23, 2018, 04:43:49 AM »

Nobody was scared or frightened or hesitant. But in fact were considerate, careful and farsighted. They knew Islam was in its infancy and the Muslims were immature. They knew enemies were outside as well as inside after the taking of Mecca. They knew the threat was imminent and the disagreement caused by Umar and his party would cause division and the enemies would take advantage and benefit.

This is a view I never understood. Don't the Dozener Shia believe that Umar is the enemy? In fact, from the 12er Shia believe Umar killed Fatima which is worst than Yazid who rewarded a general for killing al Hussain. So division are really talking about?


 
Quote
Just like God put Jesus in occultation because of how he was treated and what they were about to do with him.
Some Muslims disagreed that Prophet Isa (as) is alive.  In fact, Shaykh Saduq and many other Shia sect believe Prophet Isa (as) died.

Quote
Since the neglect and disregard of the 11 Imams and the Occultation of the 12th the situation of the Muslims has gone from bad to worse to even worse and will eventually get to terrible and then disastrous until the Ummah will eventually pray and cry for help, then the arrival of the saviour.......

In this clip they are cried so much that they are frustrated on why he still didn't come.




iceman

Re: Iran's Islamic Revolution
« Reply #54 on: December 23, 2018, 09:38:21 AM »
This is a view I never understood. Don't the Dozener Shia believe that Umar is the enemy? In fact, from the 12er Shia believe Umar killed Fatima which is worst than Yazid who rewarded a general for killing al Hussain. So division are really talking about?


 Some Muslims disagreed that Prophet Isa (as) is alive.  In fact, Shaykh Saduq and many other Shia sect believe Prophet Isa (as) died.

In this clip they are cried so much that they are frustrated on why he still didn't come.


"Don't the Dozener Shia believe that Umar is the enemy? In fact, from the 12er Shia believe Umar killed Fatima which is worst than Yazid who rewarded a general for killing al Hussain"

This statement of yours isn't fair neither right;

"Don't the Dozener Shia believe that Umar is the enemy?, Umar killed Fatima"

Some Shias believe in the above and some don't. There is a difference in opinion. And when there is a clear difference in opinion, not on religious matters but historical then, that shouldn't be labelled and presented in a way as it's the belief of the entire community. This is propaganda, if done knowingly.

"Some Muslims disagreed that Prophet Isa (as) is alive.  In fact, Shaykh Saduq and many other Shia sect believe Prophet Isa (as) died"

This is absolute nonsense. Because it's absolutely and completely against the Qur'an.

iceman

Re: Iran's Islamic Revolution
« Reply #55 on: December 23, 2018, 12:02:05 PM »
This is a view I never understood. Don't the Dozener Shia believe that Umar is the enemy? In fact, from the 12er Shia believe Umar killed Fatima which is worst than Yazid who rewarded a general for killing al Hussain. So division are really talking about?


 Some Muslims disagreed that Prophet Isa (as) is alive.  In fact, Shaykh Saduq and many other Shia sect believe Prophet Isa (as) died.

In this clip they are cried so much that they are frustrated on why he still didn't come.


"In this clip they are cried so much that they are frustrated on why he still didn't come"

IN THIS CLIP? You guys semi to focus a lot on such clips. It's the bits and pieces from here and there where you get your information from. No wonder your all confused about Shiaism.

Rationalist

Re: Iran's Islamic Revolution
« Reply #56 on: December 23, 2018, 02:19:50 PM »


Some Shias believe in the above and some don't. There is a difference in opinion. And when there is a clear difference in opinion, not on religious matters but historical then, that shouldn't be labelled and presented in a way as it's the belief of the entire community. This is propaganda, if done knowingly.
I thought the 12er Shia have an ijma on Umar being a monafiq? Can you share the other opinions? I don't there is any hadith in 12er Shia books where Umar isn't seen as the enemy. If there is another opinion is it presented under taqiyyah?


Quote
This is absolute nonsense. Because it's absolutely and completely against the Qur'an.
So Shaykh Saduq believed in non-sense? He is a kaffir now? Also, if we do look at the other belief it shows Prophet Isa's (as) superiority. Whereas 12er Shia believe in the superiority of the 12th Imam.

Rationalist

Re: Iran's Islamic Revolution
« Reply #57 on: December 23, 2018, 02:21:11 PM »
"In this clip they are cried so much that they are frustrated on why he still didn't come"

IN THIS CLIP? You guys semi to focus a lot on such clips. It's the bits and pieces from here and there where you get your information from. No wonder your all confused about Shiaism.

The strange part is the speaker say the 6th Imams says if he was alive he would serve the 12th Imam. So maybe you do have a point.

iceman

Re: Iran's Islamic Revolution
« Reply #58 on: December 23, 2018, 04:08:18 PM »
I thought the 12er Shia have an ijma on Umar being a monafiq? Can you share the other opinions? I don't there is any hadith in 12er Shia books where Umar isn't seen as the enemy. If there is another opinion is it presented under taqiyyah?

So Shaykh Saduq believed in non-sense? He is a kaffir now? Also, if we do look at the other belief it shows Prophet Isa's (as) superiority. Whereas 12er Shia believe in the superiority of the 12th Imam.

"I thought the 12er Shia have an ijma on Umar being a monafiq"

YOU THOUGHT? That's all I seem to be getting, ACCUSATIONS, ASSUMPTIONS OR THOUGHTS. 😊

"Can you share the other opinions"

Just as you have difference in opinion about people, so have the others. Umar was a Companion of the Prophet s.a.w and with very close companion as well as a relative. His character, performance, achievement and sacrifice is there to be witnessed and seen for Islam and the Prophet s.a.w.

"If there is another opinion is it presented under taqiyyah?"

What's the point when you guys have already made up your mind, either he's an enemy and a bad guy and if I say otherwise then your going to assume it's Taqiyah. One way or the other one can't reason with you guys, no matter what is said. 😊

"So Shaykh Saduq believed in non-sense? He is a kaffir now?"

Can you show me where Shaykh Saduq said he believed in this. Because it contradicts with the Qur'an. Death is either through illness or murder or manslaughter. It could be crucifixion, beheading, hanging or many other ways. Allah clearly says that "Neither was he murdered or crucified, in fact Allah up lifted him". So what do you make of this.

Mythbuster1

Re: Iran's Islamic Revolution
« Reply #59 on: December 23, 2018, 04:58:44 PM »
"Ordered? Lol ok god sends a guy to spread His word but the guy is scared and god hides him for over 1300 years as it was His order and let the others falsify the religion"

Nope. You've got it all wrong. That's your problem. God didn't send a guy who you're referring to. And that is Al Mahdi. For your information Allah choose people to govern the Ummah after Muhammad s.a.w and introduced them. The Prophet s.a.w was willing to write it then sign and seal it, for whom and for who's benefit. The Ummah. But certain people had a different agenda. One spoke by saying "he is delirious, don't listen to him" and then added "we have the book of Allah and that is sufficient for us"

Nobody was scared or frightened or hesitant. But in fact were considerate, careful and farsighted. They knew Islam was in its infancy and the Muslims were immature. They knew enemies were outside as well as inside after the taking of Mecca. They knew the threat was imminent and the disagreement caused by Umar and his party would cause division and the enemies would take advantage and benefit.

God doesn’t hide him but puts him in occultation and gives the Muslims the chance to do as they please and to get on with it. Just like God put Jesus in occultation because of how he was treated and what they were about to do with him. Since the neglect and disregard of the 11 Imams and the Occultation of the 12th the situation of the Muslims has gone from bad to worse to even worse and will eventually get to terrible and then disastrous until the Ummah will eventually pray and cry for help, then the arrival of the saviour.......

We share the same belief that the saviour will be called Al Mahdi and will be a descendent of Muhammad s.a.w, in other words from his progeny. Not from his companions 😊 We share this belief but only differ on, we believe he is in occultation and you believe he will be born. But we do believe things will eventually get worse and a saviour by that name will appear. 😊

"With heroes like that no wonder you never ruled the Muslims"

So you believe might is right. The other believes winning is triumph. In that case Satan seems to have more followers and the upper hand. That's if we go by your ideology 😊

"😂😂😂😂 Truth is last one hid  for the simple reason he was gonna get killed.👍

And why did Allah hide Jesus? He was about to be crucified, in other words about to be killed. 😊 Think again. This time with an open mind and a grudge free heart.

"hence why you are a small sect with no influence in Islam or the world"

Is that why you've seen us as a massive threat for the past 1400 yet as. So you believe in numbers. So you believe that might and majority is right? Think again by reading the Qur'an.

"Isn’t martyrdom for the sake of Allah swt the best death?"

I think you should read and study the battle of Ohad. How the companions fled at top speed just to save their lives.

Lol the great Sahab e rasul saw, Umar Al Farukh ra, stopped divine Imamate in its track and instead said gods book is enough for us.........that was Black Thursday........Friday/Saturday/Sunday there was NO mention of it afterwards.......Or what it was to be written. ( we have had a previous discussion on this and you couldn’t tell me what was to be written infact I posted hadith what was to be written and it wasn’t divine Imamate).😉

Yet according to you an implementation of a divine command Umar ra stopped it and said Quran is enough.........this is where if you ponder and think all your answers are not in the Quran which we keep telling you but you keep twisting the ayahs.
The sayings are wherever Umar ra went the shaitaan would avoid Him ra, this event is still happening in our day and age when we defend Umar ra and say He was right gods book is enough, you lot find it difficult to produce a simple verse on divine imamate in that same book or any real evidence that which was supposed to be written signed and sealed on a supposed Black Thursday by the prophet saw.

Your full of hot air.....enemies this enemies that blaming and accusing without evidence........we are not taught hate from the day we start walking like you have and still cannot produce evidence for such hate as has been seen in your responses. All hot air.

Again you are using an example of a prophet as to answer your theory on divine Imamate, prophet Isa as was raised up as Quran states.
Quran doesn’t mention such for anyone else.
You can’t use an event of a prophet who is mentioned clearly to an unknown individual with dubious history made up by dubious characters.

That’s why you need to THINK and PONDER about your theory, you are believing in such nonsense DEVOID of facts or evidences.

Alhamdulillah we had golden rule under the ottomans, seluks, mamluks to name a few stretching back to a thousand years we took on byzantines, Romans etc big powers and defeated them.......I can back it up with history and evidences........something which you are incapable of doing.
I see believing in fairytale divine Imamate theory with a hidden super character that is fearing for his life never really got off with any rule whatsoever in the history of Islam.😉

Lol you also believe in that your divine saviour is gonna raise the Sunni dead including the wife of prophet saw and will publicly punish them.............trust me our imam Mahdi as is nowhere near your fairytale made up hidden imam who will avenge ahle baith ra after a millennia, the corpse killer.😂😂😂

It’s not about might it’s about truth, that might Allah swt blessed us with it, here let me put it in perspective ;

We fought fisabilillah and triumphed by the will of Allah swt and were powerful and was respected, the stories are read about their life’s and we muslims are taught to be strong against Lies.

You have a problem with the above because in your Shiite history you never won anything you never triumphed over anything even Allah swt never helped you in divine Imamate rule to the point where you believe that your Mahdi hid or was put in occultation because of the threat on his life.😂😂😂😂
Honestly do think before you post.😉👍

Hahaha you was never a threat, a nuisance yes but a threat NEVER, nor will you ever be, look at shiism all over the world your only power is Iran and the terrorist hizbulla and you only have the courage to fight in your own backyard against sunnis, looks like it’s the Shiites who are threatened by Sunnis and kill with flags named with imams on them.😂😂😂😂

You can never answer direct questions can you?😉
Isn’t martyrdom the best death?
You answer didn’t the sahaba ra run in uhud.lol cos you have hate instead of answers.😉

sahaba can run and be scared they are just humans like me and you, they do have fear it’s natural.
IMAMS as you keep posting are DIVINE beings CHOSEN by god higher than ALL prophets apart from the last one with a mission or duty............yet he still got scared and ran and hid himself.😂😂😂😂😂😂

Please do think it through.😜

 

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