TwelverShia.net Forum

Which of the four Madhhabs is most correct?

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Bolani Muslim

Re: Which of the four Madhhabs is most correct?
« Reply #20 on: July 15, 2016, 12:40:58 AM »
This is an incorrect assertion because Abu Hanifa was Imam Ja’far al-Sadiq (as)’s student. That is why Hafiz Ibn Hajar Asqlani, Ibn Emmad Hanbali, Ibn Hajar Makki, Allamah Shiblinji, researcher Abu Zohra and many others clarified that Imam Abu Hanifa was the student of Imam Jafar Sadiq. Furthermore, Allamah Shibli Numani whilst refuting Ibn Tamiyah’s claim stated:

Ibn Tamiyah’s statement that Imam Abu Hanifa was not a student of Imam Jafar Sadiq is incorrect because although Abu Hanifa was a Mujtahid but what comparison he could have with the knowledge and merits of Imam Jafar Sadiq since Hadith, jurisprudence in fact, all kinds of religious knowledge have emerged from the family of Holy Prophet’ (Sirat Numan, page 60). This not only proves that Abu Hanifa was Imam Ja’far al-Sadiq (as)’s student but also evidences that there is no alternate when it comes to the knowledge and merits of the pure Ahlulbayt, no matter if one is even a Mujtahid and a learned man
What does it prove if Imam Abu Hanifa (rh) studied under Imam Jafar Sadiq (rh)? NOTHING that would support the 12er Shia view.

As you believe the Imam e Hidayat was in taqiyyah mode constantly, Imam Jafar Sadiq (rh) would be responsible for the creation of the Hanafi School. It also shows that the view of everyone being a closet nasibi (except the very few loyal Shias) is false, as Imam Abu Hanifa would have to go out of his way to learn form him and his methodology.
I'm super tired when I wrote this, please don't judge for any mistakes.

Abu Muhammad

Re: Which of the four Madhhabs is most correct?
« Reply #21 on: July 15, 2016, 02:20:20 AM »
Hahaha... Love it. Someone is asking somebody to do a little more research before cutting & pasting while he himself is the one in need of that little reasearch before cutting & pasting.

If you do another "little reaseach" before pasting your "creative" imagination about the learning of Imam Abu Hanifa with Imam Jaafar, he spent 18 years with Imam Hammad in Kufah since he was 22 years old and took over his Sheikh to teach in Kufah after he died. That is why it was said that Hammad was the one influenced him the most.

So again, what offshoot of Jaafari Madzhab are you talking about?

You must have missed:

This is an incorrect assertion because Abu Hanifa was Imam Ja’far al-Sadiq (as)’s student. That is why Hafiz Ibn Hajar Asqlani, Ibn Emmad Hanbali, Ibn Hajar Makki, Allamah Shiblinji, researcher Abu Zohra and many others clarified that Imam Abu Hanifa was the student of Imam Jafar Sadiq. Furthermore, Allamah Shibli Numani whilst refuting Ibn Tamiyah’s claim stated:

Ibn Tamiyah’s statement that Imam Abu Hanifa was not a student of Imam Jafar Sadiq is incorrect because although Abu Hanifa was a Mujtahid but what comparison he could have with the knowledge and merits of Imam Jafar Sadiq since Hadith, jurisprudence in fact, all kinds of religious knowledge have emerged from the family of Holy Prophet’ (Sirat Numan, page 60). This not only proves that Abu Hanifa was Imam Ja’far al-Sadiq (as)’s student but also evidences that there is no alternate when it comes to the knowledge and merits of the pure Ahlulbayt, no matter if one is even a Mujtahid and a learned man

You got me wrong. When I said ""creative" imagination about the learning of Imam Abu Hanifa with Imam Jaafar", I didn't mean he was not a student Imam Jaafar. In fact, if you scroll and read my 1st post, I did say "Imam Abu Hanifah had thousands of shuyukh BESIDES IMAM JAAFAR AS-SADIQ". He is indeed a sheikh of Imam Abu Hanifa.

What I mean is that how you Shia have such "creative" imagination that 2-year learning stint with Imam Jaafar after (as what has been mentioned by Bro Noor-us-Sunnah):

1.  He was 50+ years old and already has an established credential as a great faqih;
2.  Having issuing many2 fatwas prior meeting the Imam;
3.  Having hundreds/thousands of students who propogated Abu Hanifa's methodology;

constituted the whole Hanafi madzhab is an offshoot of Jaafari madzhab.

That is what I see you failed to answer and I expect that you will fail to answer that forever. Instead, you were focusing on stressing that Imam Hanifa was a student of Imam Jaafar of which if you properly read my 1st post, you wouldn't waste 10 minutes or so of your life typing that response.

So again I'm asking you, what offshoot of Jaafari Madzhab are you talking about?

Oh, don't forget to put into perspective his most influential sheikh, Imam Hammad ibn Abi Sulaiman, with whom he studied for 18 years since the age of 22 when you answer that question.

ShiaMan

Re: Which of the four Madhhabs is most correct?
« Reply #22 on: July 15, 2016, 06:03:13 PM »
Infact the sense in which you say Imam Abu Hanifa was student of Imam Jafar in that sense, the teachers of Imam Jafar and Imam Baqir, Imam Zain ul Abidin, etc were some major Tabain. So your Imamss were students of Tabain as well.
sorry to burst your bubble but each Imam learned from his respective father.





What does it prove if Imam Abu Hanifa (rh) studied under Imam Jafar Sadiq (rh)? NOTHING that would support the 12er Shia view.
It simply proves that Abu Hanifa learned from Imam Jafar Al-Sadiq so he was inlfuenced by him.

As you believe the Imam e Hidayat was in taqiyyah mode constantly, Imam Jafar Sadiq (rh) would be responsible for the creation of the Hanafi School. It also shows that the view of everyone being a closet nasibi (except the very few loyal Shias) is false, as Imam Abu Hanifa would have to go out of his way to learn form him and his methodology.
I'm super tired when I wrote this, please don't judge for any mistakes.
Who believes the Imams were in taqiyyah? Brother - please read up on the history before making these childish assertions.





You got me wrong. When I said ""creative" imagination about the learning of Imam Abu Hanifa with Imam Jaafar", I didn't mean he was not a student Imam Jaafar. In fact, if you scroll and read my 1st post, I did say "Imam Abu Hanifah had thousands of shuyukh BESIDES IMAM JAAFAR AS-SADIQ". He is indeed a sheikh of Imam Abu Hanifa.

What I mean is that how you Shia have such "creative" imagination that 2-year learning stint with Imam Jaafar after (as what has been mentioned by Bro Noor-us-Sunnah):

1.  He was 50+ years old and already has an established credential as a great faqih;
2.  Having issuing many2 fatwas prior meeting the Imam;
3.  Having hundreds/thousands of students who propogated Abu Hanifa's methodology;

constituted the whole Hanafi madzhab is an offshoot of Jaafari madzhab.

That is what I see you failed to answer and I expect that you will fail to answer that forever. Instead, you were focusing on stressing that Imam Hanifa was a student of Imam Jaafar of which if you properly read my 1st post, you wouldn't waste 10 minutes or so of your life typing that response.

So again I'm asking you, what offshoot of Jaafari Madzhab are you talking about?

Oh, don't forget to put into perspective his most influential sheikh, Imam Hammad ibn Abi Sulaiman, with whom he studied for 18 years since the age of 22 when you answer that question.
So you are saying the quote "if I hadn’t spent two years of his life with Imam Ja’far al-Sadiq (as), he would have been dead’" by Abu Hanifa is wrong. Is that the dispute since we are in agreement that he studied under Jafar Al-Sadiq?

Abu Muhammad

Re: Which of the four Madhhabs is most correct?
« Reply #23 on: July 16, 2016, 01:16:55 AM »

You got me wrong. When I said ""creative" imagination about the learning of Imam Abu Hanifa with Imam Jaafar", I didn't mean he was not a student Imam Jaafar. In fact, if you scroll and read my 1st post, I did say "Imam Abu Hanifah had thousands of shuyukh BESIDES IMAM JAAFAR AS-SADIQ". He is indeed a sheikh of Imam Abu Hanifa.

What I mean is that how you Shia have such "creative" imagination that 2-year learning stint with Imam Jaafar after (as what has been mentioned by Bro Noor-us-Sunnah):

1.  He was 50+ years old and already has an established credential as a great faqih;
2.  Having issuing many2 fatwas prior meeting the Imam;
3.  Having hundreds/thousands of students who propogated Abu Hanifa's methodology;

constituted the whole Hanafi madzhab is an offshoot of Jaafari madzhab.

That is what I see you failed to answer and I expect that you will fail to answer that forever. Instead, you were focusing on stressing that Imam Hanifa was a student of Imam Jaafar of which if you properly read my 1st post, you wouldn't waste 10 minutes or so of your life typing that response.

So again I'm asking you, what offshoot of Jaafari Madzhab are you talking about?

Oh, don't forget to put into perspective his most influential sheikh, Imam Hammad ibn Abi Sulaiman, with whom he studied for 18 years since the age of 22 when you answer that question.
So you are saying the quote "if I hadn’t spent two years of his life with Imam Ja’far al-Sadiq (as), he would have been dead’" by Abu Hanifa is wrong. Is that the dispute since we are in agreement that he studied under Jafar Al-Sadiq?

My dear Brother, I was responding to your statement saying that Sunnis school of taughts are offshots of Jaafari Madzhab. That's all.

Ok then, I'll make it simpler for you to understand.

This is the dispute. Please prove to me that Sunnis school of taught are offshoots of Jaafari Madzhab since you said that they are.

But please read all the responses above before you start typing anything.

fgss

Re: Which of the four Madhhabs is most correct?
« Reply #24 on: July 16, 2016, 03:48:58 AM »
So you are saying the quote "if I hadn’t spent two years of his life with Imam Ja’far al-Sadiq (as), he would have been dead’" by Abu Hanifa is wrong. Is that the dispute since we are in agreement that he studied under Jafar Al-Sadiq?

Imam Abu Hanifa, Imam Malik, Imam Baqir, Imam Jafar (may Allah be pleased with them) and all other Imams of Hadith and Fiqh had studied under many teachers. They benefited from everyone, who was knowledgeable.

The statement of Abu Hanifa about 2 years is may be about zaid bin Ali Zaynul Abidin a.s, uncle of Imam Jafar a.s. Whom he praised and supported alot in his rising against hisham bin abdul malik. If you read biography of Imam Zaid bin Ali you will get a more clear picture. Abu Hanifa was more in touch with Zaid bin ALi than Imam Jafar a.s

Here are some testimonies about Zaid Bin Ali a.s

*Imam Abu Hanifah al-Nu‘man said: I have not seen anyone equal to Imam Zayd, no one more versed and steeped in knowledge than he. The introduction to Musnad al-Imam Zayd, p. 7, Khutat al-Maqrizi, Vol II, p. 437.

*Abu Hanifah also said: In his generation I have seen no one better equipped for fiqh, no one more knowledgeable and more sharp and eloquent. He [Zayd] was second to none. Nur al-Absar, by Al-Shablanji, p. 215; also in Al-Khutat, by Al-Maqrizi, Vol. II, p 436.

*Imam Muhammad al-Baqer (AS) who said: Zayd has been endowed with privileged divine knowledge; ask him as he knows what we do not.

*Al-Baqer said: Zayd is the language that I speak. He also said: No one of us was born to resemble ‘Ali ibn Abi Taleb more than him [Zayd].

*Ja‘far al-Sadeq once said to one of his fellows: I do not think you will see any of us the likes of him [Zayd] until the end of time.

*Imam Muhammad ibn Abdullah al-Nafs al-Zakiyah said: By Allah! Zayd did renew the discontinued codes and edicts of prophets; he adjusted what had gone religiously off-track. We cannot but benefit from Zayd’s enlightenment. Zayd is the Imam of [all] Imams.



sorry to burst your bubble but each Imam learned from his respective father.


Its a myth/assumption that Imams from Ahlebait only got knowledge from their fathers. Not only they got knowledge from others but also prayed behind others.

Also Ahlebait is not limited to 12 Imams from progeny of Imam Hussain a.s only, there were many other great Imams/Scholars from Ahlebait as well, Like Zaid bin Ali and several from his progeny and from progeny of Imam Hassan a.s etc. And out of 12 Imams most of the knowledge came from 5th, 6th, 7th and 8th Imam only. While very little knowledge came from others.

One example: Imam Baqir a.s and Imam Jafar a.s learned from Jabir Bin Abdullah Ansari r.a.
This is a long narration from sunan abu dawud #1905. http://sunnah.com/abudawud/11/185

Ja’far bin Muhammad reported on the authority of his father “We entered upon Jabir bin ‘Abd Allaah. When we reached him, he asked about the people (who had come to visit him). When my turn came I said “I am Muhammad bin Ali bin Hussain. He patted my head with his hand and undid my upper then lower buttons. He then placed his hand between my nipples and in those days I was a young boy.” He then said “welcome to you my nephew, ask what you like. I questioned him he was blind. The time of prayer came and he stood wrapped in a mantle. Whenever he placed it on his shoulders its ends fell due to its shortness. He led us in prayer while his mantle was placed on a rack by his side. I said “tell me about the Hajj of the Apostle of Allaah(ﷺ).
« Last Edit: July 16, 2016, 03:57:49 AM by Fahad Sani »
إِنَّ أَصْدَقَ الْحَدِيثِ كِتَابُ اللَّهِ وَأَحْسَنَ الْهَدْىِ هَدْىُ مُحَمَّدٍ وَشَرَّ الأُمُورِ مُحْدَثَاتُهَا وَكُلَّ مُحْدَثَةٍ بِدْعَةٌ وَكُلَّ بِدْعَةٍ ضَلاَلَةٌ وَكُلَّ ضَلاَلَةٍ فِي النَّارِ

May Allah guide us to the true teachings of Quran and Sunnah of His beloved Prophet (s.a.w.w). Ameen

Bolani Muslim

Re: Which of the four Madhhabs is most correct?
« Reply #25 on: July 17, 2016, 12:38:33 AM »
What does it prove if Imam Abu Hanifa (rh) studied under Imam Jafar Sadiq (rh)? NOTHING that would support the 12er Shia view.
It simply proves that Abu Hanifa learned from Imam Jafar Al-Sadiq so he was inlfuenced by him.
That's great, 'such a nasibi.'

As you believe the Imam e Hidayat was in taqiyyah mode constantly, Imam Jafar Sadiq (rh) would be responsible for the creation of the Hanafi School. It also shows that the view of everyone being a closet nasibi (except the very few loyal Shias) is false, as Imam Abu Hanifa would have to go out of his way to learn form him and his methodology.
I'm super tired when I wrote this, please don't judge for any mistakes.
Who believes the Imams were in taqiyyah? Brother - please read up on the history before making these childish assertions.
Read any volume of 'Hayaat al-Quloob' and simply 'cntrl+f' taqiyyah (also check my history, I've been busy and haven't finished reading).
https://youpuncturedtheark.wordpress.com/2013/06/19/why-islamic-teachings-should-never-be-taken-from-shia-sources/

BTW, I'm mostly a Shaafi as that is the madhab of the local Sheikh, but he has MANY Hanafi views which I follow. I follow him as I'm a layman.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2016, 01:01:02 AM by Bolani Muslim »

ShiaMan

Re: Which of the four Madhhabs is most correct?
« Reply #26 on: July 18, 2016, 06:14:03 PM »
Read any volume of 'Hayaat al-Quloob' and simply 'cntrl+f' taqiyyah (also check my history, I've been busy and haven't finished reading).
https://youpuncturedtheark.wordpress.com/2013/06/19/why-islamic-teachings-should-never-be-taken-from-shia-sources/
There is a problem in the assumption of the writer. The Imams were not under taqiyyah but the advice they gave was for the safety of their followers.

For themselves, the rulers knew who the Imam of the time was so as such what were they hiding from? And all of them were killed by the rulers for being the Imam so clearly there were not under taqiyyah themselves.

BTW, I'm mostly a Shaafi as that is the madhab of the local Sheikh, but he has MANY Hanafi views which I follow. I follow him as I'm a layman.
Imam Shafa'i was a great scholar no doubt.

 

Related Topics

  Subject / Started by Replies Last post
2 Replies
1129 Views
Last post December 14, 2014, 10:47:50 PM
by Hadrami
5 Replies
1486 Views
Last post February 22, 2015, 07:33:37 PM
by Proud Muslimah
1 Replies
793 Views
Last post July 02, 2016, 08:32:17 PM
by taha taha
6 Replies
2147 Views
Last post September 08, 2016, 09:14:30 PM
by taha taha