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Question for Shias

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iceman

Re: Question for Shias
« Reply #80 on: January 14, 2019, 12:40:58 AM »
Leader of what? He Ibrahim as was spreading la ilaha ilallah He was following His leader on revelations being revealed.....Allah swt the greatest imam/leader, don’t look too much into Arabic words your not a native of the language and don’t add things that are not there. Prophets are different to imams your just closing your eyes and arguing blindly as if divine Imamate is higher.

Yes He was a great imam/leader of the people after prophethood without being divine imam/leader there was no more prophecy no more divinity.

I don't need to add anything and you don't need to subtract anything. You're not a native either. And being a native doesn't make much difference because the natives differed greatly on various matters and still do.

He was made an Imam of the people. You translate this as leader. Was he not a leader before being tried? You haven’t touched this. He was a leader to begin with. So leadership has got nothing to do with it.

Don't twist and turn things to mitigate and minimise the matter. This is a serious issue. It's no joke. You said "Yes He was a great imam/leader of the people after prophethood" was he not a great leader before being an Imam?

Here Imam doesn’t mean leadership. But that is how it's translated. Because it doesn't make any sense. Was he not a leader of the people before he was tried and made an Imam.

"without being divine imam/leader there was no more prophecy no more divinity"

Then again what is the point of the whole thing? Why mention this example? What was the need? He was tried by his Lord and when succeeded he was made an Imam of the people. If this is not important and serious, if it's nothing big then what's the point of it.

WAKE UP!

Mythbuster1

Re: Question for Shias
« Reply #81 on: January 14, 2019, 10:38:32 AM »
I don't need to add anything and you don't need to subtract anything. You're not a native either. And being a native doesn't make much difference because the natives differed greatly on various matters and still do.

He was made an Imam of the people. You translate this as leader. Was he not a leader before being tried? You haven’t touched this. He was a leader to begin with. So leadership has got nothing to do with it.

Don't twist and turn things to mitigate and minimise the matter. This is a serious issue. It's no joke. You said "Yes He was a great imam/leader of the people after prophethood" was he not a great leader before being an Imam?

Here Imam doesn’t mean leadership. But that is how it's translated. Because it doesn't make any sense. Was he not a leader of the people before he was tried and made an Imam.

"without being divine imam/leader there was no more prophecy no more divinity"

Then again what is the point of the whole thing? Why mention this example? What was the need? He was tried by his Lord and when succeeded he was made an Imam of the people. If this is not important and serious, if it's nothing big then what's the point of it.

WAKE UP!

You DO liar, you add the concept YOURSELF, nowhere does it say He Ibrahim as is now a divine imam, you made that methodology up YOURSELF and you know it, a bad methadology where you set the standards.

His prophecy was complete as the verse states and prophets recieve revelations and are divine as you concluded and which is an established FACT.
He is a leader of mankind as the verse states, you must be dumb to not recognise that He is the leader an imam, a leader an imam WITHOUT the benefit of being divine,(you add that by using your Shiite biased methadology or are straight up ignorant) no more revelations no more tests and commandments, He Ibrahim as lived His life as a leader who taught one god to the world as the verses theme goes, just ponder over Judaism Christianity and Islam He Ibrahim as is our leader we celebrate the biggest eid.....eid ul adha because of Ibrahim as.

He was a prophet spreading deen following commandments of Allah swt, He wasn’t a leader like you think of Him as a divine leader just because He was a divine prophet no that’s your folly that’s your misunderstanding that’s where you are going wrong and adding divine in based on your stupid methadology.
That’s why I said Arabic is not our native language as imam means leader, teacher, parent etc so that leadership could also fall into a teacher a teacher an imam who taught One God.

You are adding an alien concept yet again and are finding it very difficult of explaining how it fits in there.😜

You say:
“Here Imam doesn’t mean leadership. But that is how it's translated. Because it doesn't make any sense. Was he not a leader of the people before he was tried and made an Imam.”

So according to your above reply imam leader on its own doesn’t make sense? Just because you deem it to be so, That’s exactly what I mean you are a biased Shiite your not even opening your mind up instead it doesn’t makes sense to you......more like you KNOW it’s nonsense but your loyalty to the dream of ibn Saba and His divine Imamate theory will go out of the window if you believe as the Quran states without the divine bit.

Yes Ibrahim as’s prophethood was VERY important to not just us muslims but for the whole world, you ask them questions to Allah swt it’s not our problem that you can’t explain that divine part that you keep adding to one particular verse that you think sounds closest to divine Imamate and by using a Shiite methadology and stupid questions to come to your conclusion.

GO BACK TO SLEEP IN YOUR CAVE LIAR!

iceman

Re: Question for Shias
« Reply #82 on: January 15, 2019, 01:27:41 PM »
You DO liar, you add the concept YOURSELF, nowhere does it say He Ibrahim as is now a divine imam, you made that methodology up YOURSELF and you know it, a bad methadology where you set the standards.

His prophecy was complete as the verse states and prophets recieve revelations and are divine as you concluded and which is an established FACT.
He is a leader of mankind as the verse states, you must be dumb to not recognise that He is the leader an imam, a leader an imam WITHOUT the benefit of being divine,(you add that by using your Shiite biased methadology or are straight up ignorant) no more revelations no more tests and commandments, He Ibrahim as lived His life as a leader who taught one god to the world as the verses theme goes, just ponder over Judaism Christianity and Islam He Ibrahim as is our leader we celebrate the biggest eid.....eid ul adha because of Ibrahim as.

He was a prophet spreading deen following commandments of Allah swt, He wasn’t a leader like you think of Him as a divine leader just because He was a divine prophet no that’s your folly that’s your misunderstanding that’s where you are going wrong and adding divine in based on your stupid methadology.
That’s why I said Arabic is not our native language as imam means leader, teacher, parent etc so that leadership could also fall into a teacher a teacher an imam who taught One God.

You are adding an alien concept yet again and are finding it very difficult of explaining how it fits in there.😜

You say:
“Here Imam doesn’t mean leadership. But that is how it's translated. Because it doesn't make any sense. Was he not a leader of the people before he was tried and made an Imam.”

So according to your above reply imam leader on its own doesn’t make sense? Just because you deem it to be so, That’s exactly what I mean you are a biased Shiite your not even opening your mind up instead it doesn’t makes sense to you......more like you KNOW it’s nonsense but your loyalty to the dream of ibn Saba and His divine Imamate theory will go out of the window if you believe as the Quran states without the divine bit.

Yes Ibrahim as’s prophethood was VERY important to not just us muslims but for the whole world, you ask them questions to Allah swt it’s not our problem that you can’t explain that divine part that you keep adding to one particular verse that you think sounds closest to divine Imamate and by using a Shiite methadology and stupid questions to come to your conclusion.

GO BACK TO SLEEP IN YOUR CAVE LIAR!

There is no need to go into equations from physics or mathematics. It's not complicated at all. Abraham was tried by his Lord, when he fulfilled the trial Allah promoted him by making him an Imam of the people. No high level science involved here. First a Messenger and a Prophet, and then an Imam. Muhammad s.a.w is the greatest and highest of all. Imamah is from Allah. And in Abraham's case it is a higher level then Messenger hood and Prophecy. So simple. But the thought of Saqifa and those responsible for the incident makes it difficult for you.

Mythbuster1

Re: Question for Shias
« Reply #83 on: January 15, 2019, 01:35:44 PM »
There is no need to go into equations from physics or mathematics. It's not complicated at all. Abraham was tried by his Lord, when he fulfilled the trial Allah promoted him by making him an Imam of the people. No high level science involved here. First a Messenger and a Prophet, and then an Imam. Muhammad s.a.w is the greatest and highest of all. Imamah is from Allah. And in Abraham's case it is a higher level then Messenger hood and Prophecy. So simple. But the thought of Saqifa and those responsible for the incident makes it difficult for you.

LOL it’s back to saqifa and how much it has destroyed divine imarmite which you have turned into a LIAR because you can’t get your point across.😂😂

Something so simple yet contradictive when applied in real life.......divine Imamate the idea and thought of ibn Saba, you definitely are following his Sunna of lying.😊👍

iceman

Re: Question for Shias
« Reply #84 on: January 15, 2019, 03:09:28 PM »
LOL it’s back to saqifa and how much it has destroyed divine imarmite which you have turned into a LIAR because you can’t get your point across.😂😂

Something so simple yet contradictive when applied in real life.......divine Imamate the idea and thought of ibn Saba, you definitely are following his Sunna of lying.😊👍

Saqifa hasn't destroyed anything apart from turning the system of Caliphate into a mess. Ibn Saba is a fictional character created by propagandists just to divert attention.

"Abdollah Ibn Saba was a jew from Sanaa of Yemen and his mother was a black woman"
(The History of al-Tabari,vol:3.page:378)

Abdolghaher Baghdadi says:

“He is a jew and from Hireh , a city of Iraq"(ﺍﻟﻔﺮﻕ ﺑﻴﻦ ﺍﻟﻔﺮﻕ ﻟﻌﺒﺪ ﺍﻟﻘﺎﻫﺮ ﺍﻟﺒﻐﺪﺍﺩﻱ، (ﺹ143

It means that someone says he is from Iraq and another says he is from Yemen. , Someone says, he is from Rome. You Sunnis need to get your facts right. Get yourselves and your backyard in order first before throwing accusations around.

“He was a jew and became a Muslim apparently in the time of Osman and revolt against Osman that leads to Osman’s death"
(The History of al-Tabari,vol:3,page:378)

According to Tabari he put an end to Osman's Caliphate. Actually put an end to Osman's life. He was responsible for his murder.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2019, 03:17:26 PM by iceman »

Mythbuster1

Re: Question for Shias
« Reply #85 on: January 15, 2019, 06:22:25 PM »
Saqifa hasn't destroyed anything apart from turning the system of Caliphate into a mess. Ibn Saba is a fictional character created by propagandists just to divert attention.

"Abdollah Ibn Saba was a jew from Sanaa of Yemen and his mother was a black woman"
(The History of al-Tabari,vol:3.page:378)

Abdolghaher Baghdadi says:

“He is a jew and from Hireh , a city of Iraq"(ﺍﻟﻔﺮﻕ ﺑﻴﻦ ﺍﻟﻔﺮﻕ ﻟﻌﺒﺪ ﺍﻟﻘﺎﻫﺮ ﺍﻟﺒﻐﺪﺍﺩﻱ، (ﺹ143

It means that someone says he is from Iraq and another says he is from Yemen. , Someone says, he is from Rome. You Sunnis need to get your facts right. Get yourselves and your backyard in order first before throwing accusations around.

“He was a jew and became a Muslim apparently in the time of Osman and revolt against Osman that leads to Osman’s death"
(The History of al-Tabari,vol:3,page:378)

According to Tabari he put an end to Osman's Caliphate. Actually put an end to Osman's life. He was responsible for his murder.

Lol you use history of tabari who says he can’t substantiate whatever is in his book.😂😂😂

When bro Muslim720 gave you a hadith an authentic one by Shiite standards an imam agreeing with punishing non zakah payers in line with Sunni........you threw that straight to the dustbin didn’t ya.😜

Look at this HYPOCRISY lol first you lied and tried being deceitful and then when confronted you didn’t even feel shame and now you have turned into a hypocrite.

No wonder no one takes you seriously.

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

Mythbuster1

Re: Question for Shias
« Reply #86 on: January 15, 2019, 06:24:02 PM »
The sheer desperation of the followers of ibn Saba lol.

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

iceman

Re: Question for Shias
« Reply #87 on: January 15, 2019, 10:40:04 PM »
Lol you use history of tabari who says he can’t substantiate whatever is in his book.😂😂😂

When bro Muslim720 gave you a hadith an authentic one by Shiite standards an imam agreeing with punishing non zakah payers in line with Sunni........you threw that straight to the dustbin didn’t ya.😜

Look at this HYPOCRISY lol first you lied and tried being deceitful and then when confronted you didn’t even feel shame and now you have turned into a hypocrite.

No wonder no one takes you seriously.

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

"Lol you use history of tabari who says he can’t substantiate whatever is in his book"

Well some Sunni scholar we have here. Can't say much about your scholars and books then. Thanks for pointing this out. 😊

"by Shiite standards an imam agreeing with punishing non zakah payers in line with Sunni..."

Yes, I know which one you mean. The one he couldn't back from the Qur'an. 😊

"you threw that straight to the dustbin didn’t ya"

NO, Astaghfirullah. I threw that straight and direct towards the QUR'AN 😊

iceman

Re: Question for Shias
« Reply #88 on: January 15, 2019, 10:42:12 PM »
The sheer desperation of the followers of ibn Saba lol.

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

According to history and especially your books Ibn Saba opposed the third Caliph and Muawiya opposed the 4th. These two really told you what they think of Caliphate 😊

Mythbuster1

Re: Question for Shias
« Reply #89 on: January 16, 2019, 12:37:16 AM »
According to history and especially your books Ibn Saba opposed the third Caliph and Muawiya opposed the 4th. These two really told you what they think of Caliphate 😊

Well he got burnt didn’t he by the caliph imam Ali ra to death whilst calling Ameer Muawiya ra as a Muslim followed by His son who gave up His divine caliphate to Ameer Muawiya ra.These two really told you that saqifa was the way forward and truth prevails.

There was no divine imam ruling Muslims chuck.......ibn Saba fooled you 😉


iceman

Re: Question for Shias
« Reply #90 on: January 16, 2019, 08:49:28 AM »
Well he got burnt didn’t he by the caliph imam Ali ra to death whilst calling Ameer Muawiya ra as a Muslim followed by His son who gave up His divine caliphate to Ameer Muawiya ra.These two really told you that saqifa was the way forward and truth prevails.

There was no divine imam ruling Muslims chuck.......ibn Saba fooled you 😉

Nope. Saqifa has totally misguided you. Hasty, coincidental and immature decisions always do 😊

Mythbuster1

Re: Question for Shias
« Reply #91 on: January 16, 2019, 10:35:19 AM »
Nope. Saqifa has totally misguided you. Hasty, coincidental and immature decisions always do 😊

Hahaha is that all? 😂😂😂😂  good luck with your divine concept that never existed in book or reality.😂😂😂😂

iceman

Re: Question for Shias
« Reply #92 on: January 16, 2019, 11:08:55 AM »
Hahaha is that all? 😂😂😂😂  good luck with your divine concept that never existed in book or reality.😂😂😂😂

It exists and always will. And we don't need luck, you do. In the hereafter 😊

Mythbuster1

Re: Question for Shias
« Reply #93 on: January 16, 2019, 01:14:31 PM »
It exists and always will. And we don't need luck, you do. In the hereafter 😊

It exists in your minds, believing in something doesn’t make it REAL!😜you failed miserably in proving it from a book a prophet or in reality, good luck in the hereafter believing in such crap.👍
« Last Edit: January 16, 2019, 01:17:14 PM by Mythbuster1 »

iceman

Re: Question for Shias
« Reply #94 on: January 20, 2019, 09:39:15 PM »
It exists in your minds, believing in something doesn’t make it REAL!😜you failed miserably in proving it from a book a prophet or in reality, good luck in the hereafter believing in such crap.👍

Can you prove from the Bible that Jesus wasn't crucified or killed. 😊 Can you prove from the Bible that Jesus is in occultation and will reappear. 😊 Go on, give it a shot. 😆

Mythbuster1

Re: Question for Shias
« Reply #95 on: January 20, 2019, 10:19:58 PM »
Can you prove from the Bible that Jesus wasn't crucified or killed. 😊 Can you prove from the Bible that Jesus is in occultation and will reappear. 😊 Go on, give it a shot. 😆

Let’s start from the beginning First of all Isa as IS mentioned in the Quran as well as the bible, NO divine imam names have been mentioned in no religious holy text.
Can you prove from the bible there is such a divine imam to come?
Since you failed miserably in your feeble attempts to prove it from the Quran.

Go on give it a shot😜👍

iceman

Re: Question for Shias
« Reply #96 on: January 20, 2019, 10:43:14 PM »
Let’s start from the beginning First of all Isa as IS mentioned in the Quran as well as the bible, NO divine imam names have been mentioned in no religious holy text.
Can you prove from the bible there is such a divine imam to come?
Since you failed miserably in your feeble attempts to prove it from the Quran.

Go on give it a shot😜👍

You didn’t answer my question. Can you prove from the Bible that Jesus wasn't killed and neither was he crucified. In fact Allah uplifted him.

Mythbuster1

Re: Question for Shias
« Reply #97 on: January 20, 2019, 10:48:38 PM »
You didn’t answer my question. Can you prove from the Bible that Muhammed al Mahdi existed or Allah swt uplifted him.

iceman

Re: Question for Shias
« Reply #98 on: January 20, 2019, 11:40:54 PM »


I know. You don't need to tell me. Now I've got you running. DON'T DEMAND WHEN YOU CAN'T DELIVER.

The Christians want you to prove from the Bible that Jesus wasn't killed nor was he crucified. But in fact God uplifted him. Or why didn't God just mention this in Bible?

That would have been more easier to understand and accept rather than keeping the Christians believing in something that actually didn't happen.
for hundreds of years to come.

You want me to prove from the Qur'an about something  (occultation of Al Mahdi) that happened a few hundred years after. But you can't prove to the Christians from the Bible which happened there and then. 😊

I'll always get the better of you. And I'm always ready and well equipped for yeh. This is way way above your intellectual level. No wonder your top guns are no where to be seen and have left you to get on and make a circus of it.

Because you're their only means of survival. It's the only way you can hang on.

Mythbuster1

Re: Question for Shias
« Reply #99 on: January 21, 2019, 12:12:34 PM »
I know. You don't need to tell me. Now I've got you running. DON'T DEMAND WHEN YOU CAN'T DELIVER.

The Christians want you to prove from the Bible that Jesus wasn't killed nor was he crucified. But in fact God uplifted him. Or why didn't God just mention this in Bible?

That would have been more easier to understand and accept rather than keeping the Christians believing in something that actually didn't happen.
for hundreds of years to come.

You want me to prove from the Qur'an about something  (occultation of Al Mahdi) that happened a few hundred years after. But you can't prove to the Christians from the Bible which happened there and then. 😊

I'll always get the better of you. And I'm always ready and well equipped for yeh. This is way way above your intellectual level. No wonder your top guns are no where to be seen and have left you to get on and make a circus of it.

Because you're their only means of survival. It's the only way you can hang on.

I didn’t demand I asked for you to provide proof of divine Imamate which you have failed to provide.

I asked you to do the same with bible and Torah and you still haven’t got anything.

Why don’t you start from the basics.....where is the last divine mentioned in NAME, Isa as is mentioned in NAME in all the holy books, you are jumping to attributes of a prophet and using that as evidence to justify your belief in the last divine imam. It doesn’t work like that.

The ONLY time you will get better of me is when you can provide CLEAR evidences of divine Imamate not no copy/paste jobs which you can’t defend either........until then enjoy your fake glory.👍

Top guns are enjoying your show trust me they are propbably sat reading your posts and enjoy how you twist and turn verses to create a divine being while munching on a bag of popcorn.😉

You are the main attraction.😊👍

 

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