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Your ruqya experience.

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muslim720

Re: Your ruqya experience.
« Reply #20 on: June 17, 2019, 03:49:09 PM »
However, Ruqyah is very dangerous field. Raqis sometimes get alone with women start going into sin.

Bro, the dangerous part is when the jinn (whatever is possessing the individual) tries to harm you and starts blabbering things to get under your skin, even leak your secrets.  Saw this in a Turkish movie on Netflix and a friend's friend said that while he was visiting his folks back home, one of his cousins was possessed so she would spill the beans on everyone's business.  This guy would sneak out every time his cousin would go in a possessed fit; perhaps he had too many secrets he did not want revealed in front of his parents, lol.
"Our coward ran from those in authority" - Iceman (admitting the truth regarding his 12th Imam)

muslim720

Re: Your ruqya experience.
« Reply #21 on: June 17, 2019, 05:16:34 PM »
What Umar was saying he was saying with full intention. He knew what the Prophet s.a.w was going to write. That's why he prevented it by objecting and causing a fuss. You carry on coming out with what ever excuse you can find. 😊😊😊

Umar (ra) prevented the Holy Prophet (saw) from writing his will and completing his mission and he also subdued Imam Ali (ra) rendering him incapable to fulfill the request of the Holy Prophet (saw).  However, the Shias will vociferously claim that the Holy Prophet (saw) and Imam Ali (ra) were aided by Allah (swt) and braver than Umar (ra).  #ShiaLogic
"Our coward ran from those in authority" - Iceman (admitting the truth regarding his 12th Imam)

Rationalist

Re: Your ruqya experience.
« Reply #22 on: June 17, 2019, 05:19:57 PM »
I know a certain someone in here who is possessed by one as he is always angry and lying and deceiving 😂😂😂

Yassir Habib said among the Shia there are those who lie so much that the Shaytaan learn how to lie from them.

Mythbuster1

Re: Your ruqya experience.
« Reply #23 on: June 17, 2019, 08:10:57 PM »
Yassir Habib said among the Shia there are those who lie so much that the Shaytaan learn how to lie from them.

Am sure even the shaitaan would be shy in front of a certain someone who insists on keeping up lies and denying facts 😜

iceman

Re: Your ruqya experience.
« Reply #24 on: June 18, 2019, 08:37:34 AM »
Yassir Habib said among the Shia there are those who lie so much that the Shaytaan learn how to lie from them.

Well if that's what Yasir Habib said and believes in then he doesn't have a clue about Shaytan or the Shias. 😊 He doesn't sound like a knowledgeable person at all. And I don't know if he's talking from experience or gossip and rumours. 😊 Gossip and rumours would be more like it 😀

iceman

Re: Your ruqya experience.
« Reply #25 on: June 18, 2019, 08:42:07 AM »
Umar (ra) prevented the Holy Prophet (saw) from writing his will and completing his mission and he also subdued Imam Ali (ra) rendering him incapable to fulfill the request of the Holy Prophet (saw).  However, the Shias will vociferously claim that the Holy Prophet (saw) and Imam Ali (ra) were aided by Allah (swt) and braver than Umar (ra).  #ShiaLogic

You can come up with what ever excuses you like and bring what ever twist and turns you want but certain matters and individuals need to be exposed and brought to the attention of the people and the public. This is exactly what you dont like about us.

Muslimah

Re: Your ruqya experience.
« Reply #26 on: June 18, 2019, 11:37:59 AM »
Bro, the dangerous part is when the jinn (whatever is possessing the individual) tries to harm you and starts blabbering things to get under your skin, even leak your secrets.  Saw this in a Turkish movie on Netflix and a friend's friend said that while he was visiting his folks back home, one of his cousins was possessed so she would spill the beans on everyone's business.  This guy would sneak out every time his cousin would go in a possessed fit; perhaps he had too many secrets he did not want revealed in front of his parents, lol.
Netflix is not the best place to learn about jinns. They know your secrets because your qareen tells them. Those sent by black magic are usually very powerful.

Muslimah

Re: Your ruqya experience.
« Reply #27 on: June 18, 2019, 11:41:37 AM »
I am not from UK so I don't know what happened. However, Ruqyah is very dangerous field. Raqis sometimes get alone with women start going into sin. Also, you are dealing with species made from fire, so you end up becoming angry like them as well.
Hasanat is an agnostic and according to his wives he forced them to leave Islam as well. He only showed himself as a Muslim for his fake ruqyah business. He only made his victims situation worse.

muslim720

Re: Your ruqya experience.
« Reply #28 on: June 18, 2019, 02:04:30 PM »
Netflix is not the best place to learn about jinns. They know your secrets because your qareen tells them. Those sent by black magic are usually very powerful.

I did not say Netflix is the best place to learn about anything, let alone jinns.  However, the movie I watched confirmed what a friend's friend had experienced - that a possessed person can expose your secrets.
"Our coward ran from those in authority" - Iceman (admitting the truth regarding his 12th Imam)

Muslimah

Re: Your ruqya experience.
« Reply #29 on: June 18, 2019, 02:11:41 PM »
I did not say Netflix is the best place to learn about anything, let alone jinns.  However, the movie I watched confirmed what a friend's friend had experienced - that a possessed person can expose your secrets.
I know you didn’t say that brother.
A possessed person might know some of your secrets because of the qareen. Keep in mind that jinns are liars so even if they tell one truth they’ll tell a hundred lies with it.

muslim720

Re: Your ruqya experience.
« Reply #30 on: June 18, 2019, 02:15:32 PM »
You can come up with what ever excuses you like and bring what ever twist and turns you want but certain matters and individuals need to be exposed and brought to the attention of the people and the public.

These are not excuses or twists!  These are logical inferences that one must make when adopting Shi'i narrative of an event.

If Umar (ra) prevented the Holy Prophet (saw) from completing his mission, by disallowing him to write his will, why did Imam Ali (ra) choose to remain a spectator (much like when his wife was attacked)? 

How is it that a mere fallible man like Umar (ra) could overpower and overwhelm the Seal of Prophets (asws) and an "infallible" Imam (ra) who were both aided and protected by Allah (swt), the latter having control over atoms and the universe?

I can only imagine the mess Shias would create if they start introducing their own fictitious superheroes.  They would have superpowers but somehow they would fail to use them when needed the most, lol.

Quote
This is exactly what you dont like about us.

No, what I have stated is what I don't like about you.  You zoom in to get a pixelated view thereby missing out on the entire picture.
"Our coward ran from those in authority" - Iceman (admitting the truth regarding his 12th Imam)

muslim720

Re: Your ruqya experience.
« Reply #31 on: June 18, 2019, 02:17:10 PM »
I know you didn’t say that brother.
A possessed person might know some of your secrets because of the qareen. Keep in mind that jinns are liars so even if they tell one truth they’ll tell a hundred lies with it.

What they do, how they get all that information, I would rather not find out firsthand, lol!
"Our coward ran from those in authority" - Iceman (admitting the truth regarding his 12th Imam)

Rationalist

Re: Your ruqya experience.
« Reply #32 on: June 19, 2019, 04:56:45 AM »
Well if that's what Yasir Habib said and believes in then he doesn't have a clue about Shaytan or the Shias. 😊 He doesn't sound like a knowledgeable person at all. And I don't know if he's talking from experience or gossip and rumours. 😊 Gossip and rumours would be more like it 😀
He actually referenced it from al Kafi.





iceman

Re: Your ruqya experience.
« Reply #33 on: June 19, 2019, 08:13:32 AM »
These are not excuses or twists!  These are logical inferences that one must make when adopting Shi'i narrative of an event.

If Umar (ra) prevented the Holy Prophet (saw) from completing his mission, by disallowing him to write his will, why did Imam Ali (ra) choose to remain a spectator (much like when his wife was attacked)? 

How is it that a mere fallible man like Umar (ra) could overpower and overwhelm the Seal of Prophets (asws) and an "infallible" Imam (ra) who were both aided and protected by Allah (swt), the latter having control over atoms and the universe?

I can only imagine the mess Shias would create if they start introducing their own fictitious superheroes.  They would have superpowers but somehow they would fail to use them when needed the most, lol.

No, what I have stated is what I don't like about you.  You zoom in to get a pixelated view thereby missing out on the entire picture.

"If Umar (ra) prevented the Holy Prophet (saw) from completing his mission, by disallowing him to write his will, why did Imam Ali (ra) choose to remain a spectator (much like when his wife was attacked)"

How did you calculate that he remained a spectator. Islam was in its infancy. The Muslim community was immature. And people became Muslims, during the taking of Mecca, not for the right reasons. Ali along with other companions knew that any disagreement and disturbance would fall in the hands of opportunists waiting to take advantage of any situation that developes. The biggest opportunist (Abu Sufyan) was watching closely.

muslim720

Re: Your ruqya experience.
« Reply #34 on: June 19, 2019, 02:02:01 PM »
How did you calculate that he remained a spectator.

With logic and textual calculator of evidence.  Imam Ali (ra) was present and he did not do anything.

Would you now comment on Shaykh Mufid's blunder who wrote in Kitab al-Irshad that immediately after this incident, the Holy Prophet (saw) sent for Abbas (ra) and Imam Ali (ra).  And the Holy Prophet (saw) offered the leadership of the Ummah to Abbas (ra) before Imam Ali (ra).  This was after the alleged announcement of Imam Ali's (ra) Wilayah at Ghadeer Khum.

Why would the Prophet (saw) announce Imam Ali's (ra) Wilayah at Ghadeer Khum and then offer it to Abbas (ra)?  Again, this report is in Kitab al-Irshad by Shaykh Mufid.

Everyone, step back and make room for Barfeela's dance moves and dodging capabilities.

Quote
Islam was in its infancy. The Muslim community was immature.

The message of Islam had been completed.  Allah (swt) had completed his favor upon us when the Holy Prophet (saw) fell ill and asked for pen and paper.  Try again!

Quote
And people became Muslims, during the taking of Mecca, not for the right reasons.

Irrelevant!

Quote
Ali along with other companions knew that any disagreement and disturbance would fall in the hands of opportunists waiting to take advantage of any situation that developes.

So you admit and agree that Imam Ali (ra) stood around and did not fulfill the Holy Prophet's (saw) request!  That is what I wanted to prove and you have admitted it too.  Thank you.

Quote
The biggest opportunist (Abu Sufyan) was watching closely.

Okay but the Wilayah was first offered to Abbas (ra) - according to Shaykh Mufid - despite it being promised to Imam Ali (ra) at Ghadeer Khum.
"Our coward ran from those in authority" - Iceman (admitting the truth regarding his 12th Imam)

iceman

Re: Your ruqya experience.
« Reply #35 on: June 20, 2019, 10:56:03 AM »
With logic and textual calculator of evidence.  Imam Ali (ra) was present and he did not do anything.

Would you now comment on Shaykh Mufid's blunder who wrote in Kitab al-Irshad that immediately after this incident, the Holy Prophet (saw) sent for Abbas (ra) and Imam Ali (ra).  And the Holy Prophet (saw) offered the leadership of the Ummah to Abbas (ra) before Imam Ali (ra).  This was after the alleged announcement of Imam Ali's (ra) Wilayah at Ghadeer Khum.

Why would the Prophet (saw) announce Imam Ali's (ra) Wilayah at Ghadeer Khum and then offer it to Abbas (ra)?  Again, this report is in Kitab al-Irshad by Shaykh Mufid.

Everyone, step back and make room for Barfeela's dance moves and dodging capabilities.

The message of Islam had been completed.  Allah (swt) had completed his favor upon us when the Holy Prophet (saw) fell ill and asked for pen and paper.  Try again!

Irrelevant!

So you admit and agree that Imam Ali (ra) stood around and did not fulfill the Holy Prophet's (saw) request!  That is what I wanted to prove and you have admitted it too.  Thank you.

Okay but the Wilayah was first offered to Abbas (ra) - according to Shaykh Mufid - despite it being promised to Imam Ali (ra) at Ghadeer Khum.

"With logic and textual calculator of evidence"

Open your mind and start thinking rationally then this calculator will work better and proper.

"Imam Ali (ra) was present and he did not do anything"

He didn't do what you wanted him to do or what you think he should have done. He was an Imam of the people and exactly did what an Imam of the people would do. You don't understand Imamah so you wouldn't have a clue. So it's not that he didn't do anything, he did what was important and necessary as an Imam. If he wasn't an Imam then obviously he would have acted differently. That's the difference. Learn about the status of Imamah and it responbilities.

"Would you now comment on Shaykh Mufid's blunder who wrote in...."

I wouldn't call it blunder. That's his opinion. Learn to respect others and their opinion just as you would want. That's what you're missing.

"Why would the Prophet (saw) announce Imam Ali's (ra) Wilayah at Ghadeer Khum and then offer it to Abbas (ra)?  Again, this report is in Kitab al-Irshad by Shaykh Mufid"

We don't accept and agree to that. That is his opinion or a matter which he has recorded in his book but as an opinion of others.

iceman

Re: Your ruqya experience.
« Reply #36 on: June 20, 2019, 11:35:27 AM »
With logic and textual calculator of evidence.  Imam Ali (ra) was present and he did not do anything.

Would you now comment on Shaykh Mufid's blunder who wrote in Kitab al-Irshad that immediately after this incident, the Holy Prophet (saw) sent for Abbas (ra) and Imam Ali (ra).  And the Holy Prophet (saw) offered the leadership of the Ummah to Abbas (ra) before Imam Ali (ra).  This was after the alleged announcement of Imam Ali's (ra) Wilayah at Ghadeer Khum.

Why would the Prophet (saw) announce Imam Ali's (ra) Wilayah at Ghadeer Khum and then offer it to Abbas (ra)?  Again, this report is in Kitab al-Irshad by Shaykh Mufid.

Everyone, step back and make room for Barfeela's dance moves and dodging capabilities.

The message of Islam had been completed.  Allah (swt) had completed his favor upon us when the Holy Prophet (saw) fell ill and asked for pen and paper.  Try again!

Irrelevant!

So you admit and agree that Imam Ali (ra) stood around and did not fulfill the Holy Prophet's (saw) request!  That is what I wanted to prove and you have admitted it too.  Thank you.

Okay but the Wilayah was first offered to Abbas (ra) - according to Shaykh Mufid - despite it being promised to Imam Ali (ra) at Ghadeer Khum.

"The message of Islam had been completed.  Allah (swt) had completed his favor upon us"

Bring the verses forward. The complete verses. Actually let me do it for you.

when the Holy Prophet (saw) fell ill and asked for pen and paper.  Try again!

muslim720

Re: Your ruqya experience.
« Reply #37 on: June 20, 2019, 01:47:43 PM »
He didn't do what you wanted him to do or what you think he should have done. He was an Imam of the people and exactly did what an Imam of the people would do. You don't understand Imamah so you wouldn't have a clue. So it's not that he didn't do anything, he did what was important and necessary as an Imam.

What a ridiculously stupid attempt at a failed rebuttal.  Not doing anything is failing to fulfill the Holy Prophet's (saw) request.  Your own judgment on others (that they disobeyed the Holy Prophet s.a.w.) compels you to make such obscure statements.  It is better that you stop accusing Umar (ra) so that you don't have to make failed attempts at explaining away your own "infallible" Imam's (ra) lapse. 


Quote
If he wasn't an Imam then obviously he would have acted differently. That's the difference. Learn about the status of Imamah and it responbilities.

Shia belief 101 is that the Imam's role is to guide.  When Imam Ali (ra) did not bring pen and paper, what guidance was he imparting upon the people?  Perhaps he was affirming and upholding Umar's (ra) decision in which case it becomes incumbent upon you to also - like Imam Ali (ra) - side with Umar (ra).  An "infallible" Imam adopting the role of a spectator when the Holy Prophet (saw) ordered something is a failed Imam.

And this laughable web of excuses you are weaving!  If an "infallible" Imam does not meet the needs of the Holy Prophet (saw) then why have an "infallible" Imam in the first place? 

You only have two options, to make it easy for you:

1.  Umar (ra) was wrong which makes everyone in the room just as wrong, including Imam Ali (ra).

2.  Umar (ra) was concerned about the health of the Holy Prophet (saw) and others present shared this concern which is why Imam Ali (ra) remained motionless and silent.

Quote
I wouldn't call it blunder. That's his opinion. Learn to respect others and their opinion just as you would want. That's what you're missing.

The issue is bigger than a scholar having an opinion.  We Afghans have a saying: liars have no (or bad) memory.  When you are a compulsive liar, you are bound to contradict yourself because it is next to impossible to keep all your claims in order (unless rehearsed thoroughly).  Exactly what we see in Shaykh Mufid's case!

Quote
We don't accept and agree to that. That is his opinion or a matter which he has recorded in his book but as an opinion of others.

More like, a compulsive liar propagating a lie had a slip of tongue, or slip of pen.

Quote
Bring the verses forward. The complete verses. Actually let me do it for you.

Why do you want me to bring the verse which says that the religion has been completed thereby Allah (swt) completing his favor upon us?  If you doubt this Islamic injunction then openly say so and accept your status outside the fold of Islam.  Otherwise, no need for the verse to be brought forward when it is our aqeedah that Islam is complete.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2019, 01:49:35 PM by muslim720 »
"Our coward ran from those in authority" - Iceman (admitting the truth regarding his 12th Imam)

iceman

Re: Your ruqya experience.
« Reply #38 on: June 20, 2019, 02:10:49 PM »
With logic and textual calculator of evidence.  Imam Ali (ra) was present and he did not do anything.

Would you now comment on Shaykh Mufid's blunder who wrote in Kitab al-Irshad that immediately after this incident, the Holy Prophet (saw) sent for Abbas (ra) and Imam Ali (ra).  And the Holy Prophet (saw) offered the leadership of the Ummah to Abbas (ra) before Imam Ali (ra).  This was after the alleged announcement of Imam Ali's (ra) Wilayah at Ghadeer Khum.

Why would the Prophet (saw) announce Imam Ali's (ra) Wilayah at Ghadeer Khum and then offer it to Abbas (ra)?  Again, this report is in Kitab al-Irshad by Shaykh Mufid.

Everyone, step back and make room for Barfeela's dance moves and dodging capabilities.

The message of Islam had been completed.  Allah (swt) had completed his favor upon us when the Holy Prophet (saw) fell ill and asked for pen and paper.  Try again!

Irrelevant!

So you admit and agree that Imam Ali (ra) stood around and did not fulfill the Holy Prophet's (saw) request!  That is what I wanted to prove and you have admitted it too.  Thank you.

Okay but the Wilayah was first offered to Abbas (ra) - according to Shaykh Mufid - despite it being promised to Imam Ali (ra) at Ghadeer Khum.

"Irrelevant"

Nope. RELEVANT. Just because it doesn't suit you doesn't mean it's irrelevant.

"Okay but the Wilayah was first offered to Abbas (ra) - according to Shaykh Mufid - despite it being promised to Imam Ali (ra) at Ghadeer Khum"

We don't believe that.

"So you admit and agree that Imam Ali (ra) stood around and did not fulfill the Holy Prophet's (saw) request!  That is what I wanted to prove and you have admitted it too.  Thank you"

Nope. You're just trying to put words in my mouth. And you're trying to force your opinion on me. That's not what I said. Imam Ali did what he had to do by keeping everything in mind and by being farsighted.

iceman

Re: Your ruqya experience.
« Reply #39 on: June 20, 2019, 02:45:30 PM »
What a ridiculously stupid attempt at a failed rebuttal.  Not doing anything is failing to fulfill the Holy Prophet's (saw) request.  Your own judgment on others (that they disobeyed the Holy Prophet s.a.w.) compels you to make such obscure statements.  It is better that you stop accusing Umar (ra) so that you don't have to make failed attempts at explaining away your own "infallible" Imam's (ra) lapse. 


Shia belief 101 is that the Imam's role is to guide.  When Imam Ali (ra) did not bring pen and paper, what guidance was he imparting upon the people?  Perhaps he was affirming and upholding Umar's (ra) decision in which case it becomes incumbent upon you to also - like Imam Ali (ra) - side with Umar (ra).  An "infallible" Imam adopting the role of a spectator when the Holy Prophet (saw) ordered something is a failed Imam.

And this laughable web of excuses you are weaving!  If an "infallible" Imam does not meet the needs of the Holy Prophet (saw) then why have an "infallible" Imam in the first place? 

You only have two options, to make it easy for you:

1.  Umar (ra) was wrong which makes everyone in the room just as wrong, including Imam Ali (ra).

2.  Umar (ra) was concerned about the health of the Holy Prophet (saw) and others present shared this concern which is why Imam Ali (ra) remained motionless and silent.

The issue is bigger than a scholar having an opinion.  We Afghans have a saying: liars have no (or bad) memory.  When you are a compulsive liar, you are bound to contradict yourself because it is next to impossible to keep all your claims in order (unless rehearsed thoroughly).  Exactly what we see in Shaykh Mufid's case!

More like, a compulsive liar propagating a lie had a slip of tongue, or slip of pen.

Why do you want me to bring the verse which says that the religion has been completed thereby Allah (swt) completing his favor upon us?  If you doubt this Islamic injunction then openly say so and accept your status outside the fold of Islam.  Otherwise, no need for the verse to be brought forward when it is our aqeedah that Islam is complete.

Discuss the matter. Don't argue to force your opinion or to get me to accept and believe what you want.

"What a ridiculously stupid attempt at a failed rebuttal.  Not doing anything is failing to fulfill the Holy Prophet's (saw) request"

Nobody said he didn't do anything. He did what he thought was necessary. He acted as an Imam of the people and not as an individual or one of the people. Like I said learn and get to know about Shia Imamah rather then just banging on based on arrogance.

"Your own judgment on others (that they disobeyed the Holy Prophet s.a.w.) compels you to make such obscure statements"

It's not my judgement but an actual fact. The Prophet s.a.w asked for a pen and paper, for who? So he may write something important for those present, why and what for? So they do not DEVIATE or go ASTRAY. If I'm correct these two words are used.

If the book of Allah was SUFFICIENT then why didn't the Prophet s.a.w know that. And what was the need for the Prophet s.a.w to ask for a pen and paper. WHY did the Prophet s.a.w think that despite the Qur'an, his companions would DEVIATE, GO ASTRAY. What did the Prophet s.a.w see and witness for him to ask for pen and paper and give a clear reason for why he was going to write.

"It is better that you stop accusing Umar"

😊 I didn't accuse Umar. He put himself in it by making his intentions clear 😊

"Shia belief 101 is that the Imam's role is to guide.  When Imam Ali (ra) did not bring pen and paper, what guidance was he imparting upon the people?  Perhaps he was affirming and upholding Umar's (ra) decision in which case it becomes incumbent upon you to also - like Imam Ali (ra) - side with Umar (ra).  An "infallible" Imam adopting the role of a spectator when the Holy Prophet (saw) ordered something is a failed Imam"

The pen and paper was asked for a reason. The Prophet s.a.w had seen, noticed and witnessed something. So the ones who were uncomfortable and uneasy, they were the ones who the Prophet s.a.w asked to bring a pen and paper to keep them in line. There was no need for Ali to bring it. If the problem was seen and noticed in Ali or any other then the Prophet s.a.w surely and most certainly would have asked him or them.
Do you get the point.

Those who were uncomfortable and uneasy were the ones who objected. It was a very intelligent and nice move by the Prophet s.a.w for asking pen and paper from those who he seemed were uncomfortable and uneasy. And their reaction and response made it clear when they objected and argued about it. You can continue to protect them by raising excuses. I understand.

Why should Ali bring the pen and paper when he wasn't the one needing assurance. Nor did the Prophet s.a.w see, notice or witness any change in his nature, stance and behaviour. The ones who were showing signs of difference (deviation, going astray) were the ones who were asked. And their objection and argument exposed them and their intentions.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2019, 02:58:54 PM by iceman »

 

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