TwelverShia.net Forum

What is the reason behind Shia biasness and inconsistency?

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Noor-us-Sunnah

I was having a discussion with a Shia brother, wherein I basically answered his argument that Prophet(SAWS) himself rejected a request of Fatima(RA) regarding Khums.

Shia: Who reported this hadeeth,

Me: It's reported from Abu Huraira(RA).

Shia: Abu Huraira was a liar, so we can't accept his report.

Me: It is also reported from Ali(RA) in Bukhari.

Shia: Bukhari is a Liar too.

Me: Brother, this is reported in Muslim's Sahih too, from Ali(RA).

Shia: Muslim is also a liar. Your sources has no value, they are all fabricated by enemies of Ahlulbayt.

Me: This report is present in Shia book Man la yahdhul faqih of Sheikh Sadooq too from again Ali(RA).

Shia: May be Imam was reporting this under Taqiyyah.

Me: Brother, first make up your mind, was it Abu Huraira/Bukhari/Muslim lying or your infallible Imam lying due to practicing Taqiyyah? If it was your Imam then weren't you wrong in blaming Abu Huraira or Bukhari/Muslim?

Shia: We don't accept any hadeeth which goes against Quran.

Me: This report doesn't contradicts Quran in any way.

===============================================================

The readers can see the inconsistency and bias of Shia, and anyone who have had past experience will agree with me that, this kind of behaviour is quite common by Shias in almost all matters.  What I feel is that, the reason behind this bias and inconsistency is that, Shias have been brought up with the concepts such as Abu Huraira being liar or a lot of Sahaba being liars or that SUnni sources being filled with fabricated reports by enemies of Ahlelbayt, etc. So no matter what we say they aren't going to accept it, since they are brought up with this propaganda and hatred. And when they come across the TRUTH, you see the list of inconsistencies coming from them.

If others have some different views, please share it.

« Last Edit: May 13, 2016, 11:36:38 AM by Noor-us-Sunnah »

Farid

Re: What is the reason behind Shia biasness and inconsistency?
« Reply #1 on: May 13, 2016, 12:44:54 PM »
Well done. *dbl thumbs up*

Ibn Yahya

Re: What is the reason behind Shia biasness and inconsistency?
« Reply #2 on: May 13, 2016, 09:07:02 PM »
Thats very true akhi. However its a little less simple and a little more simple depending on how you look at it.

They have no option but to be inconsistent because consistency would make them even more inconsistent. Its a circular almost paradoxical situation

GreatChineseFall

Re: What is the reason behind Shia biasness and inconsistency?
« Reply #3 on: May 13, 2016, 11:54:36 PM »
Or:
Quote
It his been narrated on the authority of Abu Huraira that the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) said:
" We do not have any heirs; what we leave behind is a charitable endowment."

"It might be a majestic plural"

"That doesn't make sense"

Quote
Quran 9:40:
If you do not aid the Prophet - Allah has already aided him when those who disbelieved had driven him out [of Makkah] as one of two, when they were in the cave and he said to his companion, "Do not grieve; indeed Allah is with us." And Allah sent down his tranquillity upon him and supported him with angels you did not see and made the word of those who disbelieved the lowest, while the word of Allah - that is the highest. And Allah is Exalted in Might and Wise.

"The Prophet was using a majestic plural here, Allah was only with the Prophet"

GreatChineseFall

Re: What is the reason behind Shia biasness and inconsistency?
« Reply #4 on: May 14, 2016, 12:01:51 AM »
Or:
Quote
Quran 33:33
And abide in your houses and do not display yourselves as [was] the display of the former times of ignorance. And establish prayer and give zakah and obey Allah and His Messenger. Allah intends only to remove from you the impurity [of sin], O people of the [Prophet's] household, and to purify you with [extensive] purification.

"How can the wives be addressed by a masculine form?"

Quote
Quran 27:82
And when the word befalls them, We will bring forth for them a creature from the earth speaking to them, [saying] that the people were, of Our verses, not certain [in faith].

"The creature(feminine) refers to Ali"

GreatChineseFall

Re: What is the reason behind Shia biasness and inconsistency?
« Reply #5 on: July 08, 2016, 12:32:21 AM »
I can't believe the bias I read sometimes:
Quote
إِلَّا تَنصُرُوهُ فَقَدْ نَصَرَهُ اللَّهُ إِذْ أَخْرَجَهُ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا ثَانِيَ اثْنَيْنِ إِذْ هُمَا فِي الْغَارِ إِذْ يَقُولُ لِصَاحِبِهِ لَا تَحْزَنْ إِنَّ اللَّهَ مَعَنَا ۖ فَأَنزَلَ اللَّهُ سَكِينَتَهُ عَلَيْهِ وَأَيَّدَهُ بِجُنُودٍ لَّمْ تَرَوْهَا وَجَعَلَ كَلِمَةَ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا السُّفْلَىٰ ۗ وَكَلِمَةُ اللَّهِ هِيَ الْعُلْيَا ۗ وَاللَّهُ عَزِيزٌ حَكِيمٌ
Sahih International
If you do not aid the Prophet - Allah has already aided him when those who disbelieved had driven him out [of Makkah] as one of two, when they were in the cave and he said to his companion, "Do not grieve; indeed Allah is with us." And Allah sent down his tranquillity upon him and supported him with angels you did not see and made the word of those who disbelieved the lowest, while the word of Allah - that is the highest. And Allah is Exalted in Might and Wise.
Quote
"And the words 'Don't grieve' were not meant for any solace;. Because it was a statement forbidding an act. In Arabic, we have 'donts' and 'dos' as imperative verbs. Now, the grief expressed by Abu Bakr was either an act of obedience or disobedience. If it was obedience, the Prophet would not have forbidden it, therefore it is proved that it was an act of sin and disobedience."

Quote
فَأَجَاءَهَا الْمَخَاضُ إِلَىٰ جِذْعِ النَّخْلَةِ قَالَتْ يَا لَيْتَنِي مِتُّ قَبْلَ هَٰذَا وَكُنتُ نَسْيًا مَّنسِيًّا
Sahih International
And the pains of childbirth drove her to the trunk of a palm tree. She said, "Oh, I wish I had died before this and was in oblivion, forgotten."

فَنَادَاهَا مِن تَحْتِهَا أَلَّا تَحْزَنِي قَدْ جَعَلَ رَبُّكِ تَحْتَكِ سَرِيًّا
Sahih International
But he called her from below her, "Do not grieve; your Lord has provided beneath you a stream.

Quote
(It has been narrated) from Ali asws Bin Al-Husayn asws regarding His azwj Words [19:22]
So she bore him; then withdrew herself with him to a remote place. He asws said: ‘She as went  out  from  Damascus  until  she  came  to  Karbala. So  she as placed  it  (the infant)  in  the  place  of  the  grave of  Al-Husayn asws,  then  she as returned  in  the  same night’.

ShiaMan

Re: What is the reason behind Shia biasness and inconsistency?
« Reply #6 on: July 12, 2016, 10:21:42 PM »
I was having a discussion with a Shia brother, wherein I basically answered his argument that Prophet(SAWS) himself rejected a request of Fatima(RA) regarding Khums.


Is your whole premise that since the Prophet rejected a claim by Fatima, then it was okay for Caliph Abu Bakr to reject her  claim as well?


They have no option but to be inconsistent because consistency would make them even more inconsistent. Its a circular almost paradoxical situation

Speaking of paradoxical situations, how is it that you claim shias are wrong when we say the Prophet and Imams were infallible but then you turn around and say the same thing about the sahaba - that they were all great and free of error/sin.

Noor-us-Sunnah

Re: What is the reason behind Shia biasness and inconsistency?
« Reply #7 on: July 13, 2016, 04:49:58 AM »
I was having a discussion with a Shia brother, wherein I basically answered his argument that Prophet(SAWS) himself rejected a request of Fatima(RA) regarding Khums.


Is your whole premise that since the Prophet rejected a claim by Fatima, then it was okay for Caliph Abu Bakr to reject her  claim as well?
It was okay and mustahab for Abubakr(ra) to follow the Sunnah of Prophet(saws), and Abu Bakr(ra) did, followed by Umar(ra), Uthman(ra) and ALI(ra).

ShiaMan

Re: What is the reason behind Shia biasness and inconsistency?
« Reply #8 on: July 13, 2016, 05:29:32 AM »
I was having a discussion with a Shia brother, wherein I basically answered his argument that Prophet(SAWS) himself rejected a request of Fatima(RA) regarding Khums.


Is your whole premise that since the Prophet rejected a claim by Fatima, then it was okay for Caliph Abu Bakr to reject her  claim as well?
It was okay and mustahab for Abubakr(ra) to follow the Sunnah of Prophet(saws), and Abu Bakr(ra) did, followed by Umar(ra), Uthman(ra) and ALI(ra).

So was the Prophet a prophet at all times or when talking to Fatima, he was just doing it as a father?

Noor-us-Sunnah

Re: What is the reason behind Shia biasness and inconsistency?
« Reply #9 on: July 13, 2016, 05:33:49 AM »
I was having a discussion with a Shia brother, wherein I basically answered his argument that Prophet(SAWS) himself rejected a request of Fatima(RA) regarding Khums.


Is your whole premise that since the Prophet rejected a claim by Fatima, then it was okay for Caliph Abu Bakr to reject her  claim as well?
It was okay and mustahab for Abubakr(ra) to follow the Sunnah of Prophet(saws), and Abu Bakr(ra) did, followed by Umar(ra), Uthman(ra) and ALI(ra).

So was the Prophet a prophet at all times or when talking to Fatima, he was just doing it as a father?
As for Khums then he did on that occasion as a Father who was a Prophet.

ShiaMan

Re: What is the reason behind Shia biasness and inconsistency?
« Reply #10 on: July 13, 2016, 05:39:48 AM »
I was having a discussion with a Shia brother, wherein I basically answered his argument that Prophet(SAWS) himself rejected a request of Fatima(RA) regarding Khums.


Is your whole premise that since the Prophet rejected a claim by Fatima, then it was okay for Caliph Abu Bakr to reject her  claim as well?
It was okay and mustahab for Abubakr(ra) to follow the Sunnah of Prophet(saws), and Abu Bakr(ra) did, followed by Umar(ra), Uthman(ra) and ALI(ra).

So was the Prophet a prophet at all times or when talking to Fatima, he was just doing it as a father?
As for Khums then he did on that occasion as a Father who was a Prophet.

So he was always a prophet, then?
We agree but don't change your mind in a few posts

Noor-us-Sunnah

Re: What is the reason behind Shia biasness and inconsistency?
« Reply #11 on: July 13, 2016, 03:22:29 PM »
I was having a discussion with a Shia brother, wherein I basically answered his argument that Prophet(SAWS) himself rejected a request of Fatima(RA) regarding Khums.


Is your whole premise that since the Prophet rejected a claim by Fatima, then it was okay for Caliph Abu Bakr to reject her  claim as well?
It was okay and mustahab for Abubakr(ra) to follow the Sunnah of Prophet(saws), and Abu Bakr(ra) did, followed by Umar(ra), Uthman(ra) and ALI(ra).

So was the Prophet a prophet at all times or when talking to Fatima, he was just doing it as a father?
As for Khums then he did on that occasion as a Father who was a Prophet.

So he was always a prophet, then?
We agree but don't change your mind in a few posts
Don't be over confident brother.

ShiaMan

Re: What is the reason behind Shia biasness and inconsistency?
« Reply #12 on: July 13, 2016, 06:26:15 PM »
Don't be over confident brother.

Ok. so we are in agreement that the Prophet was always a Prophet.

1) Now, when the Prophet says whoever angers Fatima, angers him and whoever angers the Prophet, angers Allah - did he say that as a Prophet or as a father?

2) What was Fatima's reaction when the Prophet did not give her the Khums? Was she angry?


Noor-us-Sunnah

Re: What is the reason behind Shia biasness and inconsistency?
« Reply #13 on: July 14, 2016, 07:07:26 AM »
Don't be over confident brother.

Ok. so we are in agreement that the Prophet was always a Prophet.

1) Now, when the Prophet says whoever angers Fatima, angers him and whoever angers the Prophet, angers Allah - did he say that as a Prophet or as a father?
I was about to answer you, but just thought i should ask for an authentic report showing that Prophet(saws) said that, that is the red portion.

Quote
2) What was Fatima's reaction when the Prophet did not give her the Khums? Was she angry?
No, because Prophet(saws) gave her something better, and she knew that the demand from khums was optional. It wasn't something that it must be given.


Now, I ask you a question, are you aware that as per Sunni hadeeth, the context in which Muhammad(saws) said, whoever makes fatima angry makes me angry?

Ibn Yahya

Re: What is the reason behind Shia biasness and inconsistency?
« Reply #14 on: July 14, 2016, 12:00:07 PM »

Ok. so we are in agreement that the Prophet was always a Prophet.

1) Now, when the Prophet says whoever angers Fatima, angers him and whoever angers the Prophet, angers Allah - did he say that as a Prophet or as a father?



Narrated Abu Ad-Darda: There was a dispute between Abu Bakr and `Umar, and Abu Bakr made `Umar angry. So `Umar left angrily. Abu Bakr followed him, requesting him to ask forgiveness (of Allah) for him, but `Umar refused to do so and closed his door in Abu Bakr’s face. So Abu Bakr went to Allah’s Apostle while we were with him. Allah’s Apostle (SAWS) said, “This friend of yours must have quarrelled (with somebody).” In the meantime `Umar repented and felt sorry for what he had done, so he came, greeted (those who were present) and sat with the Prophet (SAWS) and related the story to him. Allah’s Apostle became angry and Abu Bakr started saying, “O Allah’s Apostle! By Allah, I was more at fault (than `Umar).” Allah’s Apostle said, “Are you (people) leaving for me my companion? (Abu Bakr), Are you (people) leaving for me my companion? When I said, ‘O people I am sent to you all as the Apostle of Allah,’ you said, ‘You tell a lie.’ while Abu Bakr said, ‘You have spoken the truth .”


ShiaMan

Re: What is the reason behind Shia biasness and inconsistency?
« Reply #15 on: July 14, 2016, 08:44:28 PM »

Ok. so we are in agreement that the Prophet was always a Prophet.

1) Now, when the Prophet says whoever angers Fatima, angers him and whoever angers the Prophet, angers Allah - did he say that as a Prophet or as a father?



Narrated Abu Ad-Darda: There was a dispute between Abu Bakr and `Umar, and Abu Bakr made `Umar angry. So `Umar left angrily. Abu Bakr followed him, requesting him to ask forgiveness (of Allah) for him, but `Umar refused to do so and closed his door in Abu Bakr’s face. So Abu Bakr went to Allah’s Apostle while we were with him. Allah’s Apostle (SAWS) said, “This friend of yours must have quarrelled (with somebody).” In the meantime `Umar repented and felt sorry for what he had done, so he came, greeted (those who were present) and sat with the Prophet (SAWS) and related the story to him. Allah’s Apostle became angry and Abu Bakr started saying, “O Allah’s Apostle! By Allah, I was more at fault (than `Umar).” Allah’s Apostle said, “Are you (people) leaving for me my companion? (Abu Bakr), Are you (people) leaving for me my companion? When I said, ‘O people I am sent to you all as the Apostle of Allah,’ you said, ‘You tell a lie.’ while Abu Bakr said, ‘You have spoken the truth .”


missing the relevance here.

 

Related Topics

  Subject / Started by Replies Last post
0 Replies
784 Views
Last post July 20, 2016, 10:53:44 PM
by taha taha
4 Replies
725 Views
Last post May 12, 2017, 07:19:04 PM
by Hani
3 Replies
650 Views
Last post December 30, 2017, 10:04:05 AM
by Zlatan Ibrahimovic
0 Replies
243 Views
Last post May 06, 2019, 12:21:45 PM
by Ibn Taymiyya