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Ana Zaydi

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AlZaydi

Ana Zaydi
« on: October 18, 2019, 04:53:10 PM »
Bismillahir Rahmanir Raheem
Peace and blessings be upon the seal of the Prophets,  Muhammad and his Pure familly

Salam alaykum wa Rahmatullah wa Barakatuh dear brothers and sisters.
I hope all of you are doing allright by the Grace of Allah

my name is Manny and i am a Zaydi Shia . I was born In a christian household ( i am from eastern europe ) and i studied a lot of religions before becoming a Muslim . I found out about Islam through books but mainly through a good friend of mine who was an Afghani Shia from the Twelver community . I became twelver and have been a practicing twelver for almost 6 years before realizing Twelver Shiism had some problems and some issues .

Alhamdulilah , i knew that the Ahlulbayt(AS) was still what the Prophet (SAWAS) left behind so i started investigating about other sects of Shiism until i found about Zaydi Shiism which is clearly the original Shiism without all the added doubtful beliefs and practices ( Ghaybah , Mut3a, Corrupted Quran etc )

Insha'Allah i hope we can have meaningful debates and discussions and i have respect and love for both Sunni and Shi'a twelver brothers even though we may not agree on minor issues .

P.S : Sorry if i used some arabic terms incorrectly , i am Ajami therefore please bear with me

Wasalam


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Re: Ana Zaydi
« Reply #1 on: October 20, 2019, 10:24:47 PM »
Walaikum salam,

Welcome to the forum brother.
در خلافت میل نیست ای بی‌خبر
میل کی آید ز بوبکر و عمر
میل اگر بودی در آن دو مقتدا
هر دو کردندی پسر را پیشوا

عطار نِیشابوری

www.Nahjul-Balagha.net | www.TwelverShia.net | www.ghadirkhumm.com

Adil

Re: Ana Zaydi
« Reply #2 on: October 21, 2019, 08:00:47 PM »
Wa'alaykumasalaam warahmatullahi wabarakathu, welcome to the forum bro.

Bolani Muslim

Re: Ana Zaydi
« Reply #3 on: October 28, 2019, 11:13:37 AM »
Salaam Alaikum brother,

Welcome to the forum, it's a pleasure to have more members. Six years is a long time, alhamdulillah Allah (swt) guided you. Congratulations upon leaving the Rafidi path and joining a group that practices tawheed and respects the Companions (ra).

I would like to know, as a convert from Christianity to Twelverism, what made you choose 12er Shiism over Sunni Islam? What made you decide to leave the 12er Shia faith? Since you are Zaydi, do you prefer to attend Sunni mosques?

When I left Rafidism, Zaydism appealed to me. I liked how Zaydi Islam felt like a middle ground. Unfortunately, there is little information available on the internet. Although I'm happy as a Sunni, I hope to someday research early Zaydism.

PS: Don't worry about not understanding Arabic. Only 20% of the Muslim population is Arab.

muslim720

Re: Ana Zaydi
« Reply #4 on: October 28, 2019, 02:07:17 PM »
I liked how Zaydi Islam felt like a middle ground. Unfortunately, there is little information available on the internet.

Wa alaykum as salaam wa rahmatullah,

Zaydi-ism may feel like middle ground if you set the nearness of Imam Ali (ra) [to the Holy Prophet s.a.w.] - along with all of his merits, etc - on one end of the spectrum and the haphazard election of Abu Bakr (ra) on the other - along with all the conspiracy theories [burning of the house of Fatima r.a., leaving the Holy Prophet s.a.w. to be buried by others, etc] both of which are faulty premises.
"Our coward ran from those in authority" - Iceman (admitting the truth regarding his 12th Imam)

Bolani Muslim

Re: Ana Zaydi
« Reply #5 on: October 29, 2019, 07:46:47 AM »
Wa alaykum as salaam wa rahmatullah,

Zaydi-ism may feel like middle ground if you set the nearness of Imam Ali (ra) [to the Holy Prophet s.a.w.] - along with all of his merits, etc - on one end of the spectrum and the haphazard election of Abu Bakr (ra) on the other - along with all the conspiracy theories [burning of the house of Fatima r.a., leaving the Holy Prophet s.a.w. to be buried by others, etc] both of which are faulty premises.

You're right, that is why I mentioned my interest of the sect in the past tense. After having been a Sunni Muslim for four years, (I can't believe it has been that long subhanallah), I now realize that the Zaydi school appealed to me as a result of emotional reasons. Even after I had became Sunni, it took months for my tafdhili tendencies to subside.

muslim720

Re: Ana Zaydi
« Reply #6 on: October 29, 2019, 11:12:54 AM »
You're right, that is why I mentioned my interest of the sect in the past tense. After having been a Sunni Muslim for four years, (I can't believe it has been that long subhanallah), I now realize that the Zaydi school appealed to me as a result of emotional reasons. Even after I had became Sunni, it took months for my tafdhili tendencies to subside.

May Allah (swt) continue to guide us all and keep us on the straight path!
"Our coward ran from those in authority" - Iceman (admitting the truth regarding his 12th Imam)

rev3nger

Re: Ana Zaydi
« Reply #7 on: November 17, 2019, 06:18:26 PM »
You're right, that is why I mentioned my interest of the sect in the past tense. After having been a Sunni Muslim for four years, (I can't believe it has been that long subhanallah), I now realize that the Zaydi school appealed to me as a result of emotional reasons. Even after I had became Sunni, it took months for my tafdhili tendencies to subside.

Perhaps your liking to Sunni Islam is just emotional just like Zaydism. Islam is a logical religion, if you want to be emotionally drawn to something then you are no different than a Christian that loves Jesus.

Emotional reasons are lazy and inexcusable which is why Allah revealed this verse.

“When it is said to them: “Follow what Allah has sent down.” They say: “Nay! We shall follow what we found our fathers following.” (Would they do that!) even though their fathers did not understand anything nor were they guided.”
Surah Al-Baqarah (2:170)

Islam is a logical decision not an emotional one.

Ebn Hussein

Re: Ana Zaydi
« Reply #8 on: December 28, 2019, 03:48:05 AM »
Zaydism is a batil sect, based on false attribution to Imam Zayd (rh). Their theology is Jahmite-Mu'tazili-like, an absolute disaster and they have committed many crimes in Yemen (not just the Jarudi-Zaydi Houthis, of which many - especially their leaders - have turned Rafidi Twelvers). There is an Ex-Zaydi brother on Twitter, over the years he has exposed their sect to the max. In Arabic, many Shafi'i Yemeni scholars have refuted Zaydism and their false claims to the Ahlul-Bayt.

Yes, compared to Twelver Imamite Rafidism (due its extreme paganism and savagery), Zaydism looks super orthodox (but common, it's not difficult, as Twelver Imamism is so repulsive for people with intellect, of course every person with half a brain will eventually leave it) and Shaytan fools some by claiming that it is 'the middle ground' (between Sunnism and Rafidism), but trust me it is not.

The only problem is that most material, almost 100% really, that deals with Zaydism and refutation of its falsehood is available in Arabic, I personally have benefited a lot from the Ex-Zaydi (now Sunni) brother on Twitter that I've mentioned already, here a link to his account:

https://twitter.com/asas12367?lang=en

Having said that: As Sunnis we should embrace Twelver Shias who become Zaydis, it's better for them and for us (Houthis are from the most extreme sub-sect of Zaydism, the Jarudis, they are semi-Rafidis and should be fought and will be crushed by the Sunni Yemeni nation in due time, Inshaallah). I've met Zaydis and despite all our differences, they are definitely the type of Shia (many of them don't even like the term Shia and prefer Muslim and Zaydi only!) that can peacefully co-exist with us, many of them have converted to Sunnism in the last few decades in northern Yemen (where some of my relatives live), among them major Sunni figures like al-Shawkani and Shaykh Muqbil.
الإمام الشافعي رحمه الله
لم أر أحداً من أهل الأهواء أشهد بالزور من الرافضة! - الخطيب في الكفاية والسوطي.

Imam Al-Shafi3i - may Allah have mercy upon him - said: "I have not seen among the heretics a people more famous for falsehood than the Rafidah." [narrated by Al-Khatib Al-Baghdadi/Al-Kifayah]

Re: Ana Zaydi
« Reply #9 on: February 17, 2021, 11:32:32 AM »


"When I left Rafidism, Zaydism appealed to me. I liked how Zaydi Islam felt like a middle ground. Unfortunately, there is little information available on the internet. Although I'm happy as a Sunni, I hope to someday research early Zaydism."

I also left 12er
I've developed a website to help propogate zaidi works in English
www.zaidiportal.com
It might be of interest to you.

Ebn Hussein

Re: Ana Zaydi
« Reply #10 on: May 27, 2021, 05:37:00 PM »
Zaydism is a heretical sect with bogus claims to the Ahlul-Bayt just like the Twelvers. Worse: The Zaydis have been the cause for one of the biggest idols present in the name of the Ahlul-Bayt (a):

https://ebnhussein.com/2020/10/22/the-golden-idol-of-najaf-and-its-zaydi-rafidi-history/

In sha Allah, there are many more articles in the pipeline exposing the heretical nature of Zaydism.

Zaydism is not a middle ground. The middle ground fallacy argues that because compromising is good, finding a middle ground between two extremes will land one on the truth. This is incorrect, Zaydism is heresy with a whack Mu'tazili-like 'Aqidah and spurious claims to the Ahlul-Bayt. In sha Allah our team are working on academic researches proving that the best Zaydi books when scrutinised have no authentic links to the Ahlul-Bayt.

In due time.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2021, 05:39:23 PM by Ebn Hussein »
الإمام الشافعي رحمه الله
لم أر أحداً من أهل الأهواء أشهد بالزور من الرافضة! - الخطيب في الكفاية والسوطي.

Imam Al-Shafi3i - may Allah have mercy upon him - said: "I have not seen among the heretics a people more famous for falsehood than the Rafidah." [narrated by Al-Khatib Al-Baghdadi/Al-Kifayah]

Soccer

Re: Ana Zaydi
« Reply #11 on: May 29, 2021, 08:07:15 PM »
Salam

My suggestion to you is the following:

We both believe Quran and Prophet (s) clarified Ahlulbayt (a) Mastership.

The question is, why do you believe neither Quran nor Sunnah clarified the number of successors?

Is this not an essential piece of guidance required of God to do for humanity and clarify for them?
"Is it so bad, then, to be misunderstood? Pythagoras was misunderstood, and Socrates, and Jesus, and Luther, and Copernicus, and Galileo, and Newton, and every pure and wise spirit that ever took flesh. To be great is to be misunderstood.” ― Ralph Waldo Emerson, Self-Reliance

Soccer

Re: Ana Zaydi
« Reply #12 on: June 19, 2021, 03:13:30 PM »
Salam

I posted the following on shiachat.com in a debate about Zaydism.

This is going to be a long post so bare with me. I want to talk about the following:

(1) Role of signs in form of miracles according to Quran

(2) The Guide in light of that

(3) The theme of chosen ones in Quran by God per Quran and the context of Ahlulbayt, Ulil-Amr, Ahlul-Thkir, Al-Qurba prove it be about specific designation and not general designation.

(4) Why it's forbidden for humans to choose their own religious authorities per Quran

(6) how To connect to the Guide per Quran

(7) The spiritual dimension of Ahlulbayt per Quran

(8) The context of Twelve in the Quran

Role of signs in form of miracles according to Quran:

According to Quran, signs are highly important in proving a Messenger is true. The Quran rehearsed examples of signs.

When Allah will say, O Jesus son of Mary, remember My blessing upon you and upon your mother, when I strengthened you with the Holy Spirit, so you would speak to the people in the cradle and in adulthood, and when I taught you the Book and wisdom, the Torah and the Evangel, and when you would create from clay the form of a bird, with My leave, and you would breathe into it and it would become a bird, with My leave; and you would heal the blind and the leper, with My leave, and you would raise the dead, with My leave; and when I held off [the evil of] the Children of Israel from you when you brought them manifest proofs, whereat the faithless among them said, ‘This is nothing but plain magic.’(5:110)

The one who had knowledge of the Book said, ‘I will bring it to you in the twinkling of an eye.’ So when he saw it set near him, he said, ‘This is by the grace of my Lord, to test me if I will give thanks or be ungrateful. Whoever gives thanks, gives thanks only for his own sake. And whoever is ungrateful [should know that] my Lord is indeed all-sufficient, all-generous.’(27:40)

It was said to her: Enter the palace; but when she saw it she deemed it to be a great expanse of water, and bared her legs. He said: Surely it is a palace made smooth with glass. She said: My Lord! surely I have been unjust to myself, and I submit with Sulaiman to Allah, the Lord of the worlds. (27:44)

(Firon) said: You believe in him before I give you leave; most surely he is the chief of you who taught you enchantment, therefore I will certainly cut off your hands and your feet on opposite sides, and I will certainly crucify you on the trunks of the palm trees, and certainly you will come to know which of us is the more severe and the more abiding in chastising.(20:71)

They said: We do not prefer you to what has come to us of clear arguments and to He Who made us, therefore decide what you are going to decide; you can only decide about this world's life.(20:72)

We can see signs in form of miracles were highly important in the past, but they were also highly important during Mohammad (S) time:

If they see a sign, they turn away, and say, ‘An incessant magic!’(54:2)

Ever Messenger was accused of being a sorcerer at the end by their people or one possessed by demonic forces by which miracles occur.

Those who have no knowledge say, ‘Why does not Allah speak to us, or come to us a sign?’ So said those who were before them, [words] similar to what they say. Alike are their hearts. We have certainly shown the signs to a people who have certainty.(2:118)

Now I bring this up, because this contextualizes other verses, for example, 13:7.

The Guide in 13:7 in light of the above:

We are talking about whether Ahlulbayt concept is a specific designation or it can be a general designation. I believe it has to be a specific designation. One of the proofs I brought for that is verse 13:7.  The context in light of the above, is one who can perform miracles. This is because the verse begins with query about miracles and signs in that form.

And those who disbelieve say: Why not a sign revealed regarding him, say you are only a warner and for every people there is a guide.(13:7)

Now I'm saying the context of "You are only a warner" in light of the above, is that you like other Messengers before can show the signs as a warning, but it won't necessarily guide them or make them believer, and yet for every people there is a Guide who can show such signs and guide by them.

It also clear the context is about those chosen by God and not by people, as the signs in form of miracles manifest who is chosen by God. When it says "You are only a warner", it's understood he is a warner chosen by God and that contextualizes the Guide to be chosen by God (specific designation).

The theme of chosen ones in Quran by God per Quran and the context of Ahlulbayt, Ulil-Amr, Ahlul-Thkir, Al-Qurba prove it be about specific designation and not general designation:

The Quran shows that peace is upon those who God has chosen:

Say, ‘All praise belongs to Allah, and Peace be to the servants whom He has chosen.’ Is Allah better, or the partners they ascribe [to Him]? (27:59)

The Quran shows family of Ibrahim is such group of chosen ones:

Surely, God chose Adam and Nuh and the family of Ibrahim and the family of Imran above the worlds. (3:33)

The flow to Ulil-Amr is that he compared Rasool and Ulil-Amr (4:59) to the family of Ibrahim (4:54) and the grace of God upon the people through the family of Mohammad is hence comparable to that through the family of Ibrahim.  The obvious context again is people who God chooses.

The context of Ahlul-Thkir (the family of the reminder) has two. In Suratal Anbiya, the preceding verses talk about miracles:

Nay! they said, ‘[They are] muddled dreams!’ ‘Indeed, he has fabricated it!’ ‘Indeed, he is a poet!’ ‘Let him bring us a sign, like those sent to the former generations.’(21:5)

This contextualizes that miracles should be sought from the family of the reminder:

There did not believe before them any town which We destroyed, will they then believe? (21:6)

And we did not send before you except men who we revealed to, therefore ask the family of the reminder if you do not know (21:7)

The first response is will they believe if shown such miracles, the second response is go ahead ask the family of the reminder for such miracles.

Now the context of Ahlul-Thikr in Suratal Nahl shows you can ask them for knowledge in general, not just for miracles, as they explain and manifest the Quran, but the context here is again that the family of the reminder is capable of showing miracles and even showed be asked for them.

As for the Qurba in 42:23, the reward verses are in such a way, that show what disbelievers can accuse Mohammad (s) as a personal reward can be seen from the vantage point yes this would be a selfish reward from authority, control, being praised, becoming famous, moral landscaping society as he wishes, if he was a false Prophet but it would be all this from the vantage he is a true Prophet nothing but taking a path to God (25:57) and a reminder from God to the worlds and upon God to do if he was a true Prophet since it's for him to establish authority.

42:23 shows his family are also to be honored with all the authority and reverence owed to the Prophet, and they share in what disbelievers accuse Mohammad (S) of seeking a reward selfishly. 42:23 is saying the kinsfolk chosen by God of the time - recognizing them for who they are is really all the rewards you accuse Mohammad (s) of seeking selfishly.

In Surah Al-Anaam, the reminder flows with Prophets being chosen from blood relationships brothers, offspring, forefathers and so we see that this is again about chosen by God type of choosing and not by people.

The two Ahlulbayt verses then contextualize each other as well, and we see clearly it's again about those chosen by God.  33:33 also goes well with the theme that God attributes purity to who he pleases and is not for the people to do so, and so we see again specific manifestation by God and they are chosen by God.

Why it's forbidden for humans to choose their own religious authorities per Quran

The Quran is clear that reputation is unreliable and tells believers not to try to gain charisma and reverence and getting people to follow you "O you who believe, do not say Raina (reverentially follow us)". The context is in refutation of religious clergy.

The Quran does encourage people to become pious scholars and spread knowledge and warn, but this is different then taking on mantle of authority.

And Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) suffices his servants with appointing us religious authorities. True scholars hence do not take mantle of authority but they find other ways to teach and spread their knowledge.

how To connect to the Guide per Quran

In the same chapter where 13:7 is found, another response to why not a sign revealed about him, is that God guides to who turns to him.

As the path and Guide go together, all we have to do is believe in God's guidance and so when we recite:

 

"Guide us the straight path", we should believe in what Quran has explained that to be with regards to the guides.
"The path of those who you favored (humanity) regarding them, not the path of those who you angered regarding them, nor of those who go astray"

While 1:7 can be general, Quran has explained through out, who they are. In the past, they were Prophets, in this time, it's the Ahlulbayt (a).

The Spiritual Dimension of Ahlulbayt per Quran

If you contextualize the discussion about heaven connected to this world, and stars or lanterns found in there, they re obviously revealing states of Ahlulbayt (a) and how they can connect believers on the journey. This for example seen in Surah Al-Hijr where it discusses how they would accuse Mohammad (s) of sorcery if they would be opened a door to heaven by which they ascend, and then talked about in that context, that he has filled heaven with lanterns and made it an adornment to those who look.

The context of Twelve in the Quran

The 5th chapter, it's obviously flowing with Ghadeer event, and hence takes on a prose of "similarly" which means ghadeer event also appointed us Twelve Succeeding Captains to Mohammad (s) through that convenant.

The other two places with respect to Bani-Israel can be said about branches/ways and rivers with respect to the Twelve Successors of Musa, they were one way from one perspective, but twelve branches as ways from another.  In this light, they would also be rivers/streams from God connecting his sustenance and guidance to people.

The last place mentioned, has to do with scholars and going to extreme in religion. In that context, it's best translate the word shahr as luminary to be turned by the people, aman to be generic, and then it's about Twelve representatives of Mohammad (s), no more, no less, and that has been consistent through out time. The name Ali is also relevant in that it's about not lagging behind but also not going to extreme, and such it's sacred ground in that sense. This is all described to be the upright religion from God after talking about how God will make his religion prevail.
"Is it so bad, then, to be misunderstood? Pythagoras was misunderstood, and Socrates, and Jesus, and Luther, and Copernicus, and Galileo, and Newton, and every pure and wise spirit that ever took flesh. To be great is to be misunderstood.” ― Ralph Waldo Emerson, Self-Reliance

 

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