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Sunni Shia Discussion Forum => General Sunni-Shia => Topic started by: Hadrami on November 23, 2017, 02:45:58 PM

Title: Are Sunnis Going To Hell?
Post by: Hadrami on November 23, 2017, 02:45:58 PM
Is it far fetched to think that the most likely reason some sunni make takfir on shia is a result of them finding out shia takfir on sunni?

http://www.twelvershia.net/2017/09/03/are-sunnis-going-to-hell/
Title: Re: Are Sunnis Going To Hell?
Post by: fgss on November 23, 2017, 04:04:54 PM
This is sadly the official shia position that sunnis are muslims in this world but will not be in hereafter due to their rejection of imamah. If this is the reason then I strongly believe that the blame will be on those 12 imams if they really were divine agents. Because they themselves never did any public announcement so that masses may know who is the divinely appointed imam/guide whom they are supposed to follow. Whats the point of imamah (whose objective is t o lead and guide the ummah) if masses dont know who the imams are.

There is no logic in this.
Title: Re: Are Sunnis Going To Hell?
Post by: whoaretheshia on November 23, 2017, 09:47:32 PM
This is sadly the official shia position that sunnis are muslims in this world but will not be in hereafter due to their rejection of imamah. If this is the reason then I strongly believe that the blame will be on those 12 imams if they really were divine agents. Because they themselves never did any public announcement so that masses may know who is the divinely appointed imam/guide whom they are supposed to follow. Whats the point of imamah (whose objective is t o lead and guide the ummah) if masses dont know who the imams are.

There is no logic in this.

This is not the official Shia position. If you are not aware, i have grandfather who was Sunni who passed away. Many of my relatives are actually Sunni. Our position is that we will pray behind you, it is permissible to marry you, eat your slaughtered meat, and you are considered Muslims. However, in the hereafter anyone who knowingly rejected the true path, not out of confusion or having a distorted picture of it, or perhaps not in the right environment to truly ascertain the truth, but rather rejected it out of arrogance knowing it to be true, or let their arrogance or desires refrain them from accepting it, will be judged in that way.

Our position and tolerance towards Sunni's is far greater than what you find among the Salafi-Athari's and others, who say:

1. Don't pray behind a Shia. 2. Don't marry them 3. Any Shia who believes in official Shia beliefs is not a Muslim.

At least with us, we let Allah be the judge in the day of judgement, and many Sunnis may enter Jannah, if Allah so wills.

Put Sunni's aside, we believe it is possible for non-muslims who never received the truth, or received it in a distorted form, rather than ignoring it our of arrogance or desires, or were influenced by it presented to them in an incorrect way and were convinced it was not correct due to that, to enter Jannah.
Title: Re: Are Sunnis Going To Hell?
Post by: Hadrami on November 23, 2017, 11:49:43 PM
At least with us, we let Allah be the judge in the day of judgement, and many Sunnis may enter Jannah, if Allah so wills.
So shia believe that Abu Bakr & Umar the so called two idols of quraish wont go to hell? This typical sugarcoating is one of the reason why i will never want to be a shia. There is too much lying in everything. As for shia praying behind sunni, TS has briefly quote an excellent article about that issue - http://www.twelvershia.net/2013/04/05/shia-praying-in-the-mosques-of-the-muslims-a-sign-of-hope-or-hopelessness/
Title: Re: Are Sunnis Going To Hell?
Post by: whoaretheshia on November 24, 2017, 12:48:33 AM
At least with us, we let Allah be the judge in the day of judgement, and many Sunnis may enter Jannah, if Allah so wills.

Allah is going to judge them. I don't think there is any point in causing enormous furore. I have not lied and claimed they will enter Jannah. I have spoken the truth: Allah will judge them.

Title: Re: Are Sunnis Going To Hell?
Post by: Hadrami on November 24, 2017, 12:57:02 AM
At least with us, we let Allah be the judge in the day of judgement, and many Sunnis may enter Jannah, if Allah so wills.

Allah is going to judge them. I don't think there is any point in causing enormous furore. I have not lied and claimed they will enter Jannah. I have spoken the truth: Allah will judge them.


hey, i didnt wrote that. You quoted your own comment. Wow, what a desperate attempt. A shia who claim to believe Abu Bakr & Umar wont go to hell for what they alledgedly did to imam. Wonder how many more lies you have in your website?
Title: Re: Are Sunnis Going To Hell?
Post by: fgss on November 24, 2017, 06:53:18 AM
This is sadly the official shia position that sunnis are muslims in this world but will not be in hereafter due to their rejection of imamah. If this is the reason then I strongly believe that the blame will be on those 12 imams if they really were divine agents. Because they themselves never did any public announcement so that masses may know who is the divinely appointed imam/guide whom they are supposed to follow. Whats the point of imamah (whose objective is t o lead and guide the ummah) if masses dont know who the imams are.

There is no logic in this.

This is not the official Shia position. If you are not aware, i have grandfather who was Sunni who passed away. Many of my relatives are actually Sunni. Our position is that we will pray behind you, it is permissible to marry you, eat your slaughtered meat, and you are considered Muslims. However, in the hereafter anyone who knowingly rejected the true path, not out of confusion or having a distorted picture of it, or perhaps not in the right environment to truly ascertain the truth, but rather rejected it out of arrogance knowing it to be true, or let their arrogance or desires refrain them from accepting it, will be judged in that way.

This is exactly what I said.

That they are considered muslims in this world, thus marrying them, eating their food etc is all halal. But in hereafter will not be due to their rejection of imamah. Obviously conditions do apply. Allah swt will judge everyone with full justice.

Again I repeat if this is the main reason for which sunnis will not be considered muslims in hereafter then blame will be on those 12 Imams for sure (if they are really divine agents, if not then they are free) b'coz they themselves never informed public and declared their position as divine agent so that masses may know and follow them. If you think they really did then show us proofs for each single Imam. Otherwise blame will not be on anyone living during time of any imam you consider divine.

http://forum.twelvershia.net/imamah-ghaybah/question-for-shias-did-imam-ali-decare-his-imamah/msg19968/#msg19968

Quote
Our position and tolerance towards Sunni's is far greater than what you find among the Salafi-Athari's and others, who say:

1. Don't pray behind a Shia. 2. Don't marry them 3. Any Shia who believes in official Shia beliefs is not a Muslim.

At least with us, we let Allah be the judge in the day of judgement, and many Sunnis may enter Jannah, if Allah so wills.

Put Sunni's aside, we believe it is possible for non-muslims who never received the truth, or received it in a distorted form, rather than ignoring it our of arrogance or desires, or were influenced by it presented to them in an incorrect way and were convinced it was not correct due to that, to enter Jannah.

Tolerance depends on individual level while extremists are on both sides who say things like this. Some of my cousins are twelvers and some are even married to twelvers. Its not a problem everywhere.
Title: Re: Are Sunnis Going To Hell?
Post by: Hadrami on November 24, 2017, 12:01:27 PM
At least with us, we let Allah be the judge in the day of judgement, and many Sunnis may enter Jannah, if Allah so wills.

Allah is going to judge them. I don't think there is any point in causing enormous furore. I have not lied and claimed they will enter Jannah. I have spoken the truth: Allah will judge them.


So you said you dont believe Abu Bakr & Umar are hellbound. In another thread you said people who deny imamah after clear proof are kuffar. Shia believe they were the main culprit, usurper but here you are lying in public. I didnt know kuffar will go to jannah. Is that a new shia trend? 😆
Title: Re: Are Sunnis Going To Hell?
Post by: Noor-us-Sunnah on November 24, 2017, 02:01:48 PM
This article from ts.net exposes the takfiri nature of Shiism. And actually this hatred for Muslims didn't stop here, they have went a step further in selectively accusing Sunnis of nasibism, as per their wishes and desires. And nasibis as kuffar in their view and their blood is halaal for them. This is their reality. They fool the masses in this way.
Title: Re: Are Sunnis Going To Hell?
Post by: Zlatan Ibrahimovic on December 30, 2017, 07:13:33 AM
This article from ts.net exposes the takfiri nature of Shiism. And actually this hatred for Muslims didn't stop here, they have went a step further in selectively accusing Sunnis of nasibism, as per their wishes and desires. And nasibis as kuffar in their view and their blood is halaal for them. This is their reality. They fool the masses in this way.

Another jokes comment similar to the ones I have refuted countless on here regarding the Sunni/kafir thing. If you read Shi'a Fiqh books, scholars have replied to this and I have replied to this possibly 82627292 times and all I got in response was proof that people on this website are very ignorant on Shi'a Fiqh.
Title: Re: Are Sunnis Going To Hell?
Post by: Hadrami on December 30, 2017, 11:29:34 AM
....all I got in response was proof that people on this website are very ignorant on Shi'a Fiqh.
nope, unlike majority of sunnis, we are just not ignorant on shia taqiyya 😀
Title: Re: Are Sunnis Going To Hell?
Post by: Noor-us-Sunnah on December 30, 2017, 11:31:47 AM
Another jokes comment similar to the ones I have refuted countless on here regarding the Sunni/kafir thing. If you read Shi'a Fiqh books, scholars have replied to this and I have replied to this possibly 82627292 times and all I got in response was proof that people on this website are very ignorant on Shi'a Fiqh.

Here is an article from a Shia website on this issue which deals with the difference of opinion among Shia Scholars, and what was the view of mutaqaddimeen Shia scholars .

http://realtashayyu.blogspot.com/2012/01/status-of-non-shias.html?m=1
Title: Re: Are Sunnis Going To Hell?
Post by: Zlatan Ibrahimovic on December 30, 2017, 01:02:08 PM
Here is an article from a Shia website on this issue which deals with the difference of opinion among Shia Scholars, and what was the view of mutaqaddimeen Shia scholars .

http://realtashayyu.blogspot.com/2012/01/status-of-non-shias.html?m=1

Everyone knows the Shi'a consider the non-Shi'a to be kuffar, the issue is the difference between dhahiri and batini. Some said they are kafir both in batin and dhahir, others said that they are thahiran treated as Muslims.
Title: Re: Are Sunnis Going To Hell?
Post by: Hadrami on January 01, 2018, 07:42:12 PM
Everyone knows the Shi'a consider the non-Shi'a to be kuffar, the issue is the difference between dhahiri and batini. Some said they are kafir both in batin and dhahir, others said that they are thahiran treated as Muslims.
so according to imam, EVERYONE that believe in syaikhain leadership are nawasib and ALL nawasib are not pure as per shia fiqh. I am a nasibi according to you, remember? How can a sunni like me be pure and muslim for you? 😆
Title: Re: Are Sunnis Going To Hell?
Post by: Zlatan Ibrahimovic on February 03, 2018, 03:24:28 AM
so according to imam, EVERYONE that believe in syaikhain leadership are nawasib and ALL nawasib are not pure as per shia fiqh. I am a nasibi according to you, remember? How can a sunni like me be pure and muslim for you? 😆

Sayyed Al-Khoei refuted this arguement by saying not all nawasib are najis. This is debate amongst Shi'a Fuqaha themselves. Like I said some of them would consider you najis, others would say you are treated as a Muslim.

For those who have trouble with "treat him as a Muslim", think of it like a munafiq whose kufr is not apparent. You would treat him as a Muslim, even though his batin is kufr. So in practice, it is similar.
Title: Re: Are Sunnis Going To Hell?
Post by: Zlatan Ibrahimovic on February 03, 2018, 03:26:20 AM
To answer the O.P, yes, anyone who denies Imamah will die as a kafir and will go to Hell.

Unless they are mustad'af or as some Shi'a scholars said, qusaar as well.
Title: Re: Are Sunnis Going To Hell?
Post by: Rationalist on February 03, 2018, 05:22:19 AM
What about the people of Araf? Don't they have a chance?
Title: Re: Are Sunnis Going To Hell?
Post by: Zlatan Ibrahimovic on February 03, 2018, 09:34:14 AM
What about the people of Araf? Don't they have a chance?

Them too. They will have their chance.
Title: Re: Are Sunnis Going To Hell?
Post by: Rationalist on February 04, 2018, 05:40:21 AM
That's not what the hadith says. Imam Jafar says the imamate cannot interfere with their afterlife result. Zurara then became very angry and frustrated.
Title: Re: Are Sunnis Going To Hell?
Post by: Abu Rumaysah on February 14, 2018, 01:22:36 PM
Show us single mutaqadim shia scholar that would say: disbelief in Imamah isn't kufr.

You would not find such.

But now, shias took other tactic. Religion that continuously evolving. Even Darwin would be shocked.
Title: Re: Are Sunnis Going To Hell?
Post by: Zlatan Ibrahimovic on February 14, 2018, 02:50:09 PM
Show us single mutaqadim shia scholar that would say: disbelief in Imamah isn't kufr.

You would not find such.

But now, shias took other tactic. Religion that continuously evolving. Even Darwin would be shocked.

Lol. No Shi'a scholar, mutaqadim or muta'akhir, denies the kufr of Sunnis. They differed on how to treat them and their status in dunya, refer to my discussion with Muslim720 in the thread; usul al-deen or madhab?

If you know Arabic, I can link you to links and videos on this issue, so you don't have to rely on heretical nasibi websites like this and its sisters for information on tashayyyu.
Title: Re: Are Sunnis Going To Hell?
Post by: TURJUMAN on February 19, 2018, 06:35:03 AM
Them too. They will have their chance.

Let me make my position clear from now! After knowing the Imamiyyah shiism without any hindrance or mis-understanding, I hereby reject the (perceived) lordship of the Imams, their (perceived) infallibility, and their (perceived) divine attributes .
Title: Re: Are Sunnis Going To Hell?
Post by: Zlatan Ibrahimovic on February 19, 2018, 07:20:13 AM
Let me make my position clear from now! After knowing the Imamiyyah shiism without any hindrance or mis-understanding, I hereby reject the (perceived) lordship of the Imams, their (perceived) infallibility, and their (perceived) divine attributes .

Well then we would say you are going to Hell.