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Athan Bidha- Aliyun wali Allah

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Furkan

Athan Bidha- Aliyun wali Allah
« on: February 27, 2015, 10:24:49 PM »
As we know there is this saying of "Aliyun wali Allah" in shiism, which is a bida. There are already enough articles proving that this is a bida, but the ironic thing is that I found on Nader's (shia) website an article, admitting that this addition is a bidha.

Here is his the article:

http://www.revivingalislam.com/2010/06/3rd-testimony-in-adhaan-and-iqaamah.html

So I told my (shia) friend about this article (didn't show him yet) and he told me :

"the scholars who called this a bidha were wrong because there is a (shia) narration where the Aliyun wali Allah is added to the athan and recited by Bilal on command of rasululah (saw), after Ali is chosen as the mawla."

So did any of the knowledgeable members here, come across this naration? I personnaly think, it doesn't excist or is just weak/fabricated (according to shia standards) since I don't see how this "great" narration isn't noticed by those shii scholars (like al saduq) who deem it biddah to say Aliyun wali Allah in the athan.
Before Qazî Mihemed, President of the first kurdish Republic Mahabad was hanged the iranian judge asked:

“last words?”

Qazî: “I thank Allah: even in death he put my shoes above your heads”

Hani

Re: Athan Bidha- Aliyun wali Allah
« Reply #1 on: February 27, 2015, 10:54:45 PM »
After that legendary declaration of "`Ali's Imamah" at Ghadeer, absolutely nothing happened, none of the Sahabah dealt or acted around `Ali as if he was some sort of leader nor was anything added to the Adhan like that fellow you quote says.
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

Furkan

Re: Athan Bidha- Aliyun wali Allah
« Reply #2 on: February 27, 2015, 11:23:02 PM »
I mean in the books of shia ?
Before Qazî Mihemed, President of the first kurdish Republic Mahabad was hanged the iranian judge asked:

“last words?”

Qazî: “I thank Allah: even in death he put my shoes above your heads”

Hani

Re: Athan Bidha- Aliyun wali Allah
« Reply #3 on: February 28, 2015, 12:07:34 AM »
Nader's article not enough? Surely it must be.
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

Hani

Re: Athan Bidha- Aliyun wali Allah
« Reply #4 on: February 28, 2015, 12:22:17 AM »
Look at the Shia comments on Nader's page, I swear it's as if they're programmed like robots, they actually replied to him with an argument that can only be used against Sunnies:



Quote
It is bidahtul Hassanah- as Umar (ra) reported to have said about tarawiah.


Why would Nader care about this? He's not Sunni, nor is this Hadith in Shia books. Lunatics are programmed to memorize certain arguments and use them against Sunnies.


He was also accused of dividing the Ummah:


Quote
This should be the only approach if your intention is not to divide muslim ummah.


and of hypocrisy:
Quote
Isnt that some sort of hypocracy in your humble opinion?


It's funny that an Imami Shia is actually accusing someone of Fitnah and Nifaq.


Then others started to disown him:

Quote
dear Nader Zaveri , i dont know whether to appreciate you for the blog or diaasociate myself from your biased writing


What a bunch of mentally challenged kids.
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

Rationalist

Re: Athan Bidha- Aliyun wali Allah
« Reply #5 on: February 28, 2015, 12:57:41 AM »
Shaykh Saduq was on the opinion that this was a bidah.

Rationalist

Re: Athan Bidha- Aliyun wali Allah
« Reply #6 on: February 28, 2015, 01:01:40 AM »
Here is shiapen's stupid reply on this issue.

Innovation

Some Nawasib issue the edict against Shias that reciting Ali un waliullah in Adhan is Bidah. Sometimes Nawasib take help of the comments of Shaykh Saduq from Man la yaduruh al-Faqih, Volume 1 pages 188-189 that adding ‘Ali un waliullah’ was the act of extremist Shias (mufawwidah).
Reply One

It is not an innovation as we have already proven the existence of such a Kalima in Heaven, and have also proven that past Prophet’s also attested to the Wilayah of ‘Ali as a declaration of faith. As for the statement of Shaykh Saduq, he was talking about those who add ‘Ali un Waliullah’ in Adhan considering it as the part of original Adhan while the most known reason for the present day Shias for adding ‘Ali un waliullah’ in Adhan is that they do not consider it as a part of original Adhan. For example we read in Resalat Tawdhih al-Masael by Mukaram Shirazi, page 153:
جملة ((أشهد أن علياً ولي الله)) ليست جزء من الأذان والإقامة ، ولكن يستحسن الإتيان بها بعد جملة ((أشهد أن محمداً رسول الله)) بقصد التبرك ، بنحو يفهم أنها ليست جزءً.

The sentence ((Ashhadu ena Aliun Wali Allah)) is neither the part of Adhan nor of Iqama but its well liked to recite it after the sentence ((Ashhadu ena Muhammadan rasool Allah)) for the sake of blessing and in a manner that it is understood that it is not the part (of Adhan).

We read in Kitab al-Salat by Sayed Khoei, Volume 2 page 287:
وأما الشهادة لعلي عليه السلام بالولاية وإمرة المؤمنين فليست جزءا منهما

“The testimony of Ali [as]‘s Wilayah is not part of it (Adhan & Iqama)”

On next page we read:
وإن كان الإتيان بها فيه بقصد الجزئية بدعة باطلة وتشريعا محرما

“If it is added as a part (of Adhan) then it is a false innovation (Bid’a) and illegal”.




Furkan

Re: Athan Bidha- Aliyun wali Allah
« Reply #7 on: February 28, 2015, 01:14:40 AM »
Today 2 shiites told me that it's wajib, after a bit research I saw a fatwa of sistani saying it's wajib (to recite aliyun wali allah).

Conclusion:

*It's a bida if we see it as a part of the athan (i.e as wajib I assume)

*Thus, Shiapen tries to portrait it as optional, whilst it isn't, to misguide it's sheeps.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2015, 01:27:26 AM by Furkan »
Before Qazî Mihemed, President of the first kurdish Republic Mahabad was hanged the iranian judge asked:

“last words?”

Qazî: “I thank Allah: even in death he put my shoes above your heads”

Hani

Re: Athan Bidha- Aliyun wali Allah
« Reply #8 on: February 28, 2015, 02:14:44 AM »
I don't think they understand what an innovation is. I wouldn't bother if I were you.
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

Furkan

Re: Athan Bidha- Aliyun wali Allah
« Reply #9 on: February 28, 2015, 03:51:27 AM »
Probably
Before Qazî Mihemed, President of the first kurdish Republic Mahabad was hanged the iranian judge asked:

“last words?”

Qazî: “I thank Allah: even in death he put my shoes above your heads”

Ameen

Re: Athan Bidha- Aliyun wali Allah
« Reply #10 on: February 28, 2015, 06:02:05 PM »
Ok, what is the definition of Bidah and why is Aliyun Wali Yullah bidah???

Furkan

Re: Athan Bidha- Aliyun wali Allah
« Reply #11 on: February 28, 2015, 07:53:15 PM »
Go read the article please.
Before Qazî Mihemed, President of the first kurdish Republic Mahabad was hanged the iranian judge asked:

“last words?”

Qazî: “I thank Allah: even in death he put my shoes above your heads”

 

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