Contradictions of the Imams

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Re: Contradictions of the Imams
« Reply #60 on: February 19, 2018, 10:19:47 AM »
The discussion is not about if shia is under the fold of Islam or not. Its about a guide who told people to do something which is religiously incorrect and unlawful.

Please show me where our Aimmah (a.s) told us "to do something which is religiously incorrect and unlawful."

Yeah, the unique twisted characteristic of a religious guide is to tell his followers to do something which is unlawful and haram 😂

Please provide references where our Aimmah (a.s) told his followers "to do something which is unlawful and haram."

Your version of imam is definitely not that. No Prophet since the first and the last ever told their followers to do things which they themselves considered unlawful. That only exist in shiaism 😆

Our Aimmah (a.s) are true inheritors of Prophet 's (s.a.w.w) knowledge.


Re: Contradictions of the Imams
« Reply #61 on: February 19, 2018, 10:22:37 AM »
In Al-Istibsar by Al-Tusi (p. 689) from Mohammad bin Ahmad bin Yahya from Abi Al-Jawza’a from Al-Hussain bin Ulwan from Amr bin Khalid from Zaid bin Ali from his fathers from Ali – peace be upon him – that he said: The Messenger of Allah – peace be upon him – forbade the meat of the domestic donkey and mutah marriages.

Al-Tusi, in Al-Istibsar, when commenting on this hadith stated that, “This hadith is to be taken as taqiyya.”

Remember you said "we Shi'as act according to the commands of our Aimmah (a.s) as they are our guides"

Will you follow the command in which imam said it was halal or the command which imam said it was haram?

Where there are two hadiths which contradict one another then latter hadith would be followed according to our Aimmah (a.s) because latter abrogates former.


Re: Contradictions of the Imams
« Reply #62 on: February 19, 2018, 10:28:14 AM »
Ijtaba, why did those people rejection 'Ali's compilation of the Qur'an, and presumably these people are the companions?

According to the hadith the reason given by Umar for rejecting Imam Ali's (a.s) compilation of Qur'an was:

"The Quran, which is with us, is better that what you are inviting us towards."


Re: Contradictions of the Imams
« Reply #63 on: February 19, 2018, 10:36:24 AM »
I was watching this youtube clip about the Islamic Museum in Najaf -

supposedly this Quran was written by Imam Ali (ra)...something doesn't make sense here;  if we believe the Shia Text the Quran written by Imam Ali (ra) had unique features i.e. that it was written chronologically and had the tafasir of the verses alongside it; this was hidden and will return with Imam Mehdi.

This museum has a Quran written supposedly by Imam Ali (ra) and has none of those features and in fact accords with the Uthman's (ra) Rasm...there is also a hand written Quran by Imam Hassan (ra) in Isfahan, again no chronological verses no secret tafsir or anything of that sort.

Someone is lying/mistaken either those who say these are Quran written by the Imams (raa) or those who say it was written and then hidden away.


Do you believe that the Qur'an shown in the YouTube clip given by you is written by Imam Ali (a.s)? Also do you believe that Quran in Isfahan is hand written by Imam Hassan (a.s)?


Re: Contradictions of the Imams
« Reply #64 on: February 19, 2018, 10:48:44 AM »
Ali RA then proceeded to help transmit the Hafs an Asim qiraat of the Quran; knowing that what he was transmitting was not what should’ve been transmitted.

Didn't understand what you are saying.

Are you saying Imam Ali (a.s) helped in transmitting Hafs an Asim Qiraat by being fully aware that he (a.s) should not have transmitted those Qiraat?

This isn’t even mentioning the fact that there is another chain for the Quran; Ali to Husayn Ibn Ali to Zayn al Abideen to Al-Baqir to As-Sadiq to Hamza al-Zayaat. Note, it is significant that Kazim doesn’t narrate from as-Sadiq - instead it is Hamza al-Zayaat. Also key is that we find that Shias recite Hafs an Asim rather than this qiraa.

What is authenticity of this chain according to Ahlul Sunnah? Do they believe it is authentic or fabricated by Shias?

So Ali RA transmitted the wrong Quran as did Husayn, Zayn al Abideen, al-Baqir and As-Sadiq? The infallible guides knowingly misguiding the ummah yet again... Does this honestly not ring alarm bells for you brother?

Your saying that the Qur'an which we (Sunnis & Shias) have today in our hands is wrong according to our Aimmah (a.s)?

Can you please provide evidence for this i.e. where Imam Ali (a.s), Imam Hussain (a.s) and Imam Zayn ul Abideen (a.s) said or thought that al-Quran which is in our hands is wrong


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