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first Shiite scholar

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Furkan

first Shiite scholar
« on: January 18, 2015, 10:10:39 PM »
Is Kulayni the first Shiite scholar who has written the first shiite book or is it someone else?

In either case, what do we know about this first scholar?

-Where did he study/ from who did he learn?

-Who are his parents?

-When was he born and where? 

-How long did he live?

-in which regions did he live?

-How did he compile his book (method, where did he collect information)?

- Who are his students?
Before Qazî Mihemed, President of the first kurdish Republic Mahabad was hanged the iranian judge asked:

“last words?”

Qazî: “I thank Allah: even in death he put my shoes above your heads”

Hani

Re: first Shiite scholar
« Reply #1 on: January 18, 2015, 10:20:22 PM »
Kulayni is not the first Imami to write a book, many Imamis before him wrote books, and not much is known about Kulayni.


His entire biography is like two lines, barely contains any info.
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

Invoker

Re: first Shiite scholar
« Reply #2 on: January 18, 2015, 10:38:37 PM »
Kulayni is not the first Imami to write a book, many Imamis before him wrote books, and not much is known about Kulayni.


His entire biography is like two lines, barely contains any info.


What are the names of those books? Did they survive? Their authenticity?

So according to ur knowledge the man was a ghost? His teacher? His lineage?
« Last Edit: January 18, 2015, 11:27:43 PM by Invoker »

Furkan

Re: first Shiite scholar
« Reply #3 on: January 18, 2015, 10:54:08 PM »
Now I got even more nervous ^^
Before Qazî Mihemed, President of the first kurdish Republic Mahabad was hanged the iranian judge asked:

“last words?”

Qazî: “I thank Allah: even in death he put my shoes above your heads”

Hani

Re: first Shiite scholar
« Reply #4 on: January 19, 2015, 01:24:50 AM »
He's not a "ghost" it's just that the Shia never cared who they took their religion from, so they haven't documented anything much about the life of their early scholars/narrators or their reliability etc...


And yes they do have earlier books like Basa'ir al-Darajat (Which is unreliable according to some), Tafseer al-Qummi (Also unreliable according to some), Sulaym bin Qays (Unreliable according to some as well), they have their sixteen Usoul (Who's authenticity is also not confirmed)...


A book like Qurb al-Isnad, would be considered an earlier Shia book that is considered authentic according to them.
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

Furkan

Re: first Shiite scholar
« Reply #5 on: January 19, 2015, 02:24:28 AM »
So there is no such "first scholar".
Before Qazî Mihemed, President of the first kurdish Republic Mahabad was hanged the iranian judge asked:

“last words?”

Qazî: “I thank Allah: even in death he put my shoes above your heads”

Farid

Re: first Shiite scholar
« Reply #6 on: January 19, 2015, 10:02:54 AM »
Perhaps the first technically reliable book (according to some) is Basa'ir Al Darajat.  I recall vaguely Ibn Al Nadeem calling it thr first Twelver book. As you guys know, the Twelver sect was established after the death of Al Hasan Al Askari, which means that the earliest possible works could have only come at the end of the third century... which happens to be the case with Basa'ir Al Darajat and Qurb Al Isnad.

Husayn

Re: first Shiite scholar
« Reply #7 on: January 19, 2015, 10:57:28 AM »
What about the original "Usool" books that al-Kafi is supposedly based on? Were they the "400 Usool" books or something like that?

Although I suppose they are not considered 12elver books (the OP didn't specify 12elver but "shiite").
« Last Edit: January 19, 2015, 11:00:50 AM by Husayn »
إن يتبعون إلا الظن وما تهوى الأنفس

Rationalist

Re: first Shiite scholar
« Reply #8 on: January 20, 2015, 03:12:21 AM »
I heard they have manuscripts of Hisham ibn Hakam.

Furkan

Re: first Shiite scholar
« Reply #9 on: January 20, 2015, 03:16:57 AM »
Hisham ibn Hakam was shi but not rafidi.
Before Qazî Mihemed, President of the first kurdish Republic Mahabad was hanged the iranian judge asked:

“last words?”

Qazî: “I thank Allah: even in death he put my shoes above your heads”

Husayn

Re: first Shiite scholar
« Reply #10 on: January 20, 2015, 04:07:44 AM »
Hisham ibn Hakam was shi but not rafidi.

I am sure he was definitely a Rafidi - he on many occasions disparages Abu Bakr (ra).

I'm not sure if there's any reports of him cursing him though. Maybe he just preferred 'Ali (ra) to Abu Bakr (ra).
إن يتبعون إلا الظن وما تهوى الأنفس

Farid

Re: first Shiite scholar
« Reply #11 on: January 20, 2015, 05:19:34 AM »
If they had manuscripts by Hisham bin Alhakam then they would have been printed by now.

 

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