TwelverShia.net Forum

I want to become a Sunni...but which Sunni?

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

whoaretheshia

I want to become a Sunni...but which Sunni?
« on: December 20, 2019, 10:12:58 PM »
In the name of Allah,

Salamualykum brothers and sisters.

Assume i wanted to become a Sunni Muslim, how would i go about sifting through so many groups ardently opposed to one another?

Let me explain.

In Sunni Islam, people are not divided only the the four Madhabs, but by a far greater division: schools of Aqeedah. The major schools of Aqeedah in Sunni Islam are the Asharis , Maturidis, and Athari Salafis.

The Asharis and Maturidis are seen as the most in number, and are a major force in Pakistan, India, North Africa, most of the Middle East, and such regions. The Salafi Atharis are dominant in Saudi Arabia, certain African countries, London, and have greater Dawah efforts on the west.

Asharis and Maturidis regard Salafis as deviants, and not from the Aqeedah of Ahlus-Sunnah wal Jamaah, given they differ with them greatly on Tawheed and the attributes of Allah.

Salafis regard Asharis and Maturidis are deviants, and not from the Ahlus-Sunnah Wal Jamaah.

Then you get onto other groups, such as the Deobandis, Barelvis, who are often adopters of one of the four Madhabs, but differ greatly on ritualistic practices, such that many Deobandis regard Barelvis to be innovators and those who commit shirk.

You then have major divisions between Hanafis, who are often Maturidis, and Salafis, on the topic of even making Taqleed of a scholar or following a scholar entirely.

Even among Salafis, there are major divisions. You have one group accusing the other of being Madhkhali, Ikhwani, Khawarij etc

Given the deep differences in Aqeedah, in sub-groups, and in following a Madhab, in this sea of confusion, how does anyone navigate around it?
« Last Edit: December 20, 2019, 10:18:25 PM by whoaretheshia »
"I leave behind for you two weighty things, which if you hold onto, you will never go astray...the Quran and my Ahlulbayt" - Musnad Ibn Rawayh (al-Albani classes Isnaad *independently* as Hasan, and Matn as authentic, as does Al-Arnaut, Ibn Hajar and others.

whoaretheshia

Re: I want to become a Sunni...but which Sunni?
« Reply #1 on: December 20, 2019, 10:15:43 PM »
Salafi Shaykh Abdurahman Hassan adopts the consensus view among Salafi scholars in that Asharis and Maturidis are Ahlul-Biddah, innovators in Aqeedah and not from the Ahlus-Sunnah Wal Jamaah:



"I leave behind for you two weighty things, which if you hold onto, you will never go astray...the Quran and my Ahlulbayt" - Musnad Ibn Rawayh (al-Albani classes Isnaad *independently* as Hasan, and Matn as authentic, as does Al-Arnaut, Ibn Hajar and others.

whoaretheshia

Re: I want to become a Sunni...but which Sunni?
« Reply #2 on: December 20, 2019, 10:17:14 PM »
Hanafi-Maturidi Shaykh denounces Salafis, and Hanafi-Fiqh channels have many videos condemning Salafi Aqeedah on Tawheed and other areas:

"I leave behind for you two weighty things, which if you hold onto, you will never go astray...the Quran and my Ahlulbayt" - Musnad Ibn Rawayh (al-Albani classes Isnaad *independently* as Hasan, and Matn as authentic, as does Al-Arnaut, Ibn Hajar and others.

whoaretheshia

Re: I want to become a Sunni...but which Sunni?
« Reply #3 on: December 20, 2019, 10:24:20 PM »
Fatwah by Salafi Shaykh on IslamQA declaring Asharis and Maturidis as Ahlul-Biddah: https://islamqa.info/en/answers/205836/what-are-the-differences-between-the-maturidi-school-of-thought-and-ahl-as-sunnah

Abu Khadeejah declaring Asharis and Maturidis as Ahlul Biddah: https://www.abukhadeejah.com/the-creed-of-ahlus-sunnah-concerning-the-attributes-of-allah-in-refutation-of-the-ashari-maturidi-and-deobandi-denial-and-distortion-printable-newsletter/

Al-Albani denounces attempts at unity between Salafis, and Asharis and Maturidis

"I leave behind for you two weighty things, which if you hold onto, you will never go astray...the Quran and my Ahlulbayt" - Musnad Ibn Rawayh (al-Albani classes Isnaad *independently* as Hasan, and Matn as authentic, as does Al-Arnaut, Ibn Hajar and others.

Adil

Re: I want to become a Sunni...but which Sunni?
« Reply #4 on: December 20, 2019, 10:35:42 PM »
And this people is what it looks like when someone is trying to divide and conquer. He used to do the exact same thing on student forums to create rifts between sunni students.

Don't worry though my shia friend, from what I've heard the people behind this website are from various different sunni backgrounds and whilst we may not agree with each other on everything, we all disagree with twelver shiaism far more than with each other. And our views are definitely spreading in the community alhamdulillah and our mindsets will too insha'Allah. 

whoaretheshia

Re: I want to become a Sunni...but which Sunni?
« Reply #5 on: December 20, 2019, 10:37:03 PM »
Salafi's today are in a state of disarray. A Sunni-Hanafi brother, who is from the Ashari/Maturidi Aqeedah points this out:



Divisions between Salafis in London - groups accusing each other of being Madhkhali, Ikhwani, Ahlul Biddah:

Bro Hajii vs Shamsi:



Shamsi vs Muhammed Hijab/Ali Dawah:



Dawah Man verses Shaykh Haytham al-Hadad




Total and utter disarray brothers and sisters.
"I leave behind for you two weighty things, which if you hold onto, you will never go astray...the Quran and my Ahlulbayt" - Musnad Ibn Rawayh (al-Albani classes Isnaad *independently* as Hasan, and Matn as authentic, as does Al-Arnaut, Ibn Hajar and others.

whoaretheshia

Re: I want to become a Sunni...but which Sunni?
« Reply #6 on: December 20, 2019, 10:39:04 PM »
..

I have been clear in that my Aqeedah is much closer to the Aqeedah of orthodox Ahlus-Sunnah Wal Jamaah, who are the Asharis and Maturidis, and are less volatile in their approach and rhetoric. I respect Salafis as Muslims, but differ greater with them.

Having said that, a brother on a thread today claimed that if he wanted to become Shia, which Shia would he want to be?

In response, i have made a very fair argument. If i wanted to become Ahlus-Sunnah Wal Jamaah, can you clearly tell me which Aqeedah and which group to join?

If one group is calling the other group Ahlul Biddah, is that their fault or mine?

It's a serious question.

"I leave behind for you two weighty things, which if you hold onto, you will never go astray...the Quran and my Ahlulbayt" - Musnad Ibn Rawayh (al-Albani classes Isnaad *independently* as Hasan, and Matn as authentic, as does Al-Arnaut, Ibn Hajar and others.

iceman

Re: I want to become a Sunni...but which Sunni?
« Reply #7 on: December 20, 2019, 10:39:33 PM »
And this people is what it looks like when someone is trying to divide and conquer. He used to do the exact same thing on student forums to create rifts between sunni students.

Don't worry though my shia friend, from what I've heard the people behind this website are from various different sunni backgrounds and whilst we may not agree with each other on everything, we all disagree with twelver shiaism far more than with each other. And our views are definitely spreading in the community alhamdulillah and our mindsets will too insha'Allah.

The fact is in reality you hate each others guts. I'm not surprised you hate us. Hate is your thing.

MuslimK

  • *****
  • Total likes: 255
  • +18/-0
  • یا مقلب القلوب ثبت قلبی علی دینک
    • Refuting Shia allegations everywhere
  • Religion: Sunni
Re: I want to become a Sunni...but which Sunni?
« Reply #8 on: December 20, 2019, 10:42:53 PM »
Walaikum Salam,

This is coming from a Twelver Shia with so many groups, sects and subsects within Shiism?

Sunnis may have difference of opinions about certain issues, some advanced abstract topics may sound major, but they all agree on the sources of the Sunnah and it how it reached them, the truthfulness of Sahaba etc but this is not the case with Shiism which has multiple sects and each with their own sources attributed to Ahlulbayt.

Anyways, if you really want to become a Sunni then it is easy, just follow the Fiqh of your local community, and you can adopt the Athari or Ashari schools of Aqeedah whichever you are confident about. They are both better than being an Imami Shia.


I have been clear in that my Aqeedah is much closer to the Aqeedah of orthodox Ahlus-Sunnah Wal Jamaah, who are the Asharis and Maturidis, and are less volatile in their approach and rhetoric. I respect Salafis as Muslims, but differ greater with them.


Great! then you can become Ashari Sunni. No problems!
« Last Edit: December 20, 2019, 10:44:20 PM by MuslimK »
در خلافت میل نیست ای بی‌خبر
میل کی آید ز بوبکر و عمر
میل اگر بودی در آن دو مقتدا
هر دو کردندی پسر را پیشوا

عطار نِیشابوری

www.Nahjul-Balagha.net | www.TwelverShia.net | www.ghadirkhumm.com

whoaretheshia

Re: I want to become a Sunni...but which Sunni?
« Reply #9 on: December 20, 2019, 10:46:58 PM »
Walaikum Salam,

This is coming from a Twelver Shia with so many groups, sects and subsects within Shiism?

Sunnis may have difference of opinions about certain issues, some advanced abstract topics may sound major, but they all agree on the sources of the Sunnah and it how it reached them, the truthfulness of Sahaba etc but this is not the case with Shiism which has multiple sects and each with their own sources attributed to Ahlulbayt.

Anyways, if you really want to become a Sunni then it is easy, just follow the Fiqh of your local community, and you can adopt the Athari or Ashari schools of Aqeedah whichever you are confident about. They are both better than being an Imami Shia.


Great! then you can become Ashari. No problems!

Brother, is it really as simple as that?

If i want to become part of the Ahlus-Sunnah Wal Jamaah, if i have decided that is the way forward, and i then go to a Mosque of Salafi-Athari brothers, do you know what they will tell me?

They will claim that Salafi-Athari's are Ahlus-Sunnah Wal Jamaah, and that Asharis and Maturidis are not Ahlus-Sunnah Wal Jamaah, but are Ahlul-Biddah. That is hardly the same as saying you can just pick and choose and all are acceptable.

If i go to an Ashari/Maturidi mosque, they will tell me that Salafis are not from the Ahlus-Sunnah Wal Jamaah.

If i go to a Deobandi mosque, they will likely be Hanafi-Maturidis, and tell me that Salafis are deviant. If i go to the Salafi mosque, they will tell me the same about Deobandis.

Even among Asharis and Maturidis, there are big divisions. Deobandis will tell me that Barelvis commit shirk, even though both groups are on Ashari Aqeedah and follow Hanafi/Shafii' Fiqh due to rituals like 'Ya Muhammed' and Mawlid.

Even one Salafi group will tell me the other group are Madkhlalis. Another will claim the other are Ikhwanis. Another will claim the other are not Ahlus-Sunnah. Look at the bitter arguments between Shamsi, Muhammed Hijab, Bro Hajii, Yasir Qadhi, Haytham al-Haddad etc

There are some pretty severe differences in Aqeedah, major ones, such that one group claims the other are Ahlul-Biddah and not from the Ahlus-Sunnah Wal Jamaah.

What group do you follow brother? What is your Aqeedah and group?
« Last Edit: December 20, 2019, 10:48:17 PM by whoaretheshia »
"I leave behind for you two weighty things, which if you hold onto, you will never go astray...the Quran and my Ahlulbayt" - Musnad Ibn Rawayh (al-Albani classes Isnaad *independently* as Hasan, and Matn as authentic, as does Al-Arnaut, Ibn Hajar and others.

MuslimK

  • *****
  • Total likes: 255
  • +18/-0
  • یا مقلب القلوب ثبت قلبی علی دینک
    • Refuting Shia allegations everywhere
  • Religion: Sunni
Re: I want to become a Sunni...but which Sunni?
« Reply #10 on: December 20, 2019, 10:57:20 PM »
You are just repeating yourself. If you are closer to Ashari Orthodox Ahlu Sunnah like you said then become one. We will welcome you and hug you. Don't worry what Salafi brothers will say. And if you change your mind and find the Athari to be strong then become one, we will welcome it and don't worry what the Ashari brothers will say. You will be within the Ahl-Sunnah, insha'Allah.
در خلافت میل نیست ای بی‌خبر
میل کی آید ز بوبکر و عمر
میل اگر بودی در آن دو مقتدا
هر دو کردندی پسر را پیشوا

عطار نِیشابوری

www.Nahjul-Balagha.net | www.TwelverShia.net | www.ghadirkhumm.com

Adil

Re: I want to become a Sunni...but which Sunni?
« Reply #11 on: December 20, 2019, 11:04:09 PM »
The fact is in reality you hate each others guts. I'm not surprised you hate us. Hate is your thing.

Na whilst I may not agree with everything, I have now a decent amount of respect for barevlis, deobandis, salafis etc... I don't hate most shias either, I have a lot of pity for these guys, they are simply following what their family and community taught them. I wish the best for them and I pray that they embrace real Islam. For you hardcore khameinists though, I hold nothing but enmity.

Have you watched the star wars movie or something lately? You sound like this guy -


Adil

Re: I want to become a Sunni...but which Sunni?
« Reply #12 on: December 20, 2019, 11:18:32 PM »
I have been clear in that my Aqeedah is much closer to the Aqeedah of orthodox Ahlus-Sunnah Wal Jamaah, who are the Asharis and Maturidis, and are less volatile in their approach and rhetoric. I respect Salafis as Muslims, but differ greater with them.

Having said that, a brother on a thread today claimed that if he wanted to become Shia, which Shia would he want to be?

In response, i have made a very fair argument. If i wanted to become Ahlus-Sunnah Wal Jamaah, can you clearly tell me which Aqeedah and which group to join?

If one group is calling the other group Ahlul Biddah, is that their fault or mine?

It's a serious question.

Respectfully, joining any one of them subsects would be a step up from twelver shiaism. So as the other guy said, join any one of them and we will say welcome.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2019, 11:23:05 PM by Adil »

Abu Muhammad

Re: I want to become a Sunni...but which Sunni?
« Reply #13 on: December 21, 2019, 02:26:54 AM »
In the name of Allah,

Salamualykum brothers and sisters.

Assume i wanted to become a Sunni Muslim, how would i go about sifting through so many groups ardently opposed to one another?

Let me explain.

In Sunni Islam, people are not divided only the the four Madhabs, but by a far greater division: schools of Aqeedah. The major schools of Aqeedah in Sunni Islam are the Asharis , Maturidis, and Athari Salafis.

The Asharis and Maturidis are seen as the most in number, and are a major force in Pakistan, India, North Africa, most of the Middle East, and such regions. The Salafi Atharis are dominant in Saudi Arabia, certain African countries, London, and have greater Dawah efforts on the west.

Asharis and Maturidis regard Salafis as deviants, and not from the Aqeedah of Ahlus-Sunnah wal Jamaah, given they differ with them greatly on Tawheed and the attributes of Allah.

Salafis regard Asharis and Maturidis are deviants, and not from the Ahlus-Sunnah Wal Jamaah.

Then you get onto other groups, such as the Deobandis, Barelvis, who are often adopters of one of the four Madhabs, but differ greatly on ritualistic practices, such that many Deobandis regard Barelvis to be innovators and those who commit shirk.

You then have major divisions between Hanafis, who are often Maturidis, and Salafis, on the topic of even making Taqleed of a scholar or following a scholar entirely.

Even among Salafis, there are major divisions. You have one group accusing the other of being Madhkhali, Ikhwani, Khawarij etc

Given the deep differences in Aqeedah, in sub-groups, and in following a Madhab, in this sea of confusion, how does anyone navigate around it?

That is why people need a divinely appointed infallible imam to guide us to the true path of Allah so that nobody, including Twelvers who got numerous Maraji' conflicting among themselves, will ever have any confusion whatsoever to choose the truth .

BUT WAIT... WHERE IS HE? WE NEED HIM!
« Last Edit: December 21, 2019, 02:37:48 AM by Abu Muhammad »

iceman

Re: I want to become a Sunni...but which Sunni?
« Reply #14 on: December 21, 2019, 04:16:20 AM »
That is why people need a divinely appointed infallible imam to guide us to the true path of Allah so that nobody, including Twelvers who got numerous Maraji' conflicting among themselves, will ever have any confusion whatsoever to choose the truth .

BUT WAIT... WHERE IS HE? WE NEED HIM!

"That is why people need a divinely appointed infallible imam"

If the Shaykhain had accepted what the Messenger s.a.w had to offer rather than rushing to Saqifa to stop the matter slipping away from them then the Muslims wouldn’t be in this division.

"including Twelvers who got numerous Maraji' conflicting among themselves"

Neither did anyone of them kick off a different school of thought nor did anyone send takfeer on the other like Sunni Barelvis and Deobandis.

"BUT WAIT... WHERE IS HE? WE NEED HIM!"

You don't need him, that's why he ain't around. You had the option of 11, but how did you treat them. Muslims weren't bothered. They took matters into their own hands. So Allah decided to send the 12th into occultation leaving the arrogant and ignorant Muslim Ummah to get on with it.

The reason why you're coming up with all this is to divert attention to save your skins. I'm going to bring the main question back which you're running from. If someone wants to become a Sunni then which Sunni should they become and why? You start things but unfortunately get stuck in it yourself. That's how good you are.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2019, 04:19:47 AM by iceman »

muslim720

Re: I want to become a Sunni...but which Sunni?
« Reply #15 on: December 21, 2019, 05:02:57 AM »
Salaam alaykum wa rahmatullah,

In order to condense the member's research, not to undermine the massive effort he had to put in it, here is the list of "scholars" he has relied upon, the ones who are in opposition to one another.

Shaykh Abdurahman Hassan
Shaykh Abdul Haleem
Salafi Shaykh on IslamQA
Abu Khadeejah
Al-Albani
A Sunni Hanafi brother
Bro Hajji
Shamsi
Mohammed Hijab
Dawah Man
Shaykh Haytham al-Hadad

That is every single one of our scholars, right?  As he said, "total and utter disarray".

To address the question in the original post, the three schools of aqeedah are varying degrees of the same concept.  In other words, the Ashari and Maturidi were responses to the Mutazili problem so they took the basic articles of faith and crystallized them further (hence, varying degrees of the same concept).

Rest assured that no matter which Sunni you choose to be, you'll have far more Qur'anic and Prophetic support for your beliefs than all of the Shi'i schools (past and present) combined!
"Our coward ran from those in authority" - Iceman (admitting the truth regarding his 12th Imam)

iceman

Re: I want to become a Sunni...but which Sunni?
« Reply #16 on: December 21, 2019, 11:10:49 PM »
Salaam alaykum wa rahmatullah,

In order to condense the member's research, not to undermine the massive effort he had to put in it, here is the list of "scholars" he has relied upon, the ones who are in opposition to one another.

Shaykh Abdurahman Hassan
Shaykh Abdul Haleem
Salafi Shaykh on IslamQA
Abu Khadeejah
Al-Albani
A Sunni Hanafi brother
Bro Hajji
Shamsi
Mohammed Hijab
Dawah Man
Shaykh Haytham al-Hadad

That is every single one of our scholars, right?  As he said, "total and utter disarray".

To address the question in the original post, the three schools of aqeedah are varying degrees of the same concept.  In other words, the Ashari and Maturidi were responses to the Mutazili problem so they took the basic articles of faith and crystallized them further (hence, varying degrees of the same concept).

Rest assured that no matter which Sunni you choose to be, you'll have far more Qur'anic and Prophetic support for your beliefs than all of the Shi'i schools (past and present) combined!

"Rest assured that no matter which Sunni you choose to be, you'll have far more Qur'anic and Prophetic support for your beliefs than all of the Shi'i schools (past and present) combined"

LOL. LOL AGAIN. Your belief only survives in constantly and regularly questioning the other just to try and catch them out at any one point. Propaganda against others is what keeps you alive and going. You have absolutely nothing to talk about or to promote. Your belief is full of double standards and contradictions.


iceman

Re: I want to become a Sunni...but which Sunni?
« Reply #18 on: December 22, 2019, 12:57:54 AM »
Salaam alaykum wa rahmatullah,

In order to condense the member's research, not to undermine the massive effort he had to put in it, here is the list of "scholars" he has relied upon, the ones who are in opposition to one another.

Shaykh Abdurahman Hassan
Shaykh Abdul Haleem
Salafi Shaykh on IslamQA
Abu Khadeejah
Al-Albani
A Sunni Hanafi brother
Bro Hajji
Shamsi
Mohammed Hijab
Dawah Man
Shaykh Haytham al-Hadad

That is every single one of our scholars, right?  As he said, "total and utter disarray".

To address the question in the original post, the three schools of aqeedah are varying degrees of the same concept.  In other words, the Ashari and Maturidi were responses to the Mutazili problem so they took the basic articles of faith and crystallized them further (hence, varying degrees of the same concept).

Rest assured that no matter which Sunni you choose to be, you'll have far more Qur'anic and Prophetic support for your beliefs than all of the Shi'i schools (past and present) combined!

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://allanruhl.com/why-mohammed-hijab-is-dangerous/&ved=2ahUKEwiU0ryg28fmAhVjolwKHQVRCTIQFjAOegQIAxAB&usg=AOvVaw12xZS-9pJZM9LW20QZPbqw

iceman

Re: I want to become a Sunni...but which Sunni?
« Reply #19 on: December 22, 2019, 01:11:55 AM »
Salaam alaykum wa rahmatullah,

In order to condense the member's research, not to undermine the massive effort he had to put in it, here is the list of "scholars" he has relied upon, the ones who are in opposition to one another.

Shaykh Abdurahman Hassan
Shaykh Abdul Haleem
Salafi Shaykh on IslamQA
Abu Khadeejah
Al-Albani
A Sunni Hanafi brother
Bro Hajji
Shamsi
Mohammed Hijab
Dawah Man
Shaykh Haytham al-Hadad

That is every single one of our scholars, right?  As he said, "total and utter disarray".

To address the question in the original post, the three schools of aqeedah are varying degrees of the same concept.  In other words, the Ashari and Maturidi were responses to the Mutazili problem so they took the basic articles of faith and crystallized them further (hence, varying degrees of the same concept).

Rest assured that no matter which Sunni you choose to be, you'll have far more Qur'anic and Prophetic support for your beliefs than all of the Shi'i schools (past and present) combined!

Shaykh Abdurahman Hassan
Shaykh Abdul Haleem
Salafi Shaykh on IslamQA
Abu Khadeejah
Al-Albani
A Sunni Hanafi brother
Bro Hajji
Shamsi
Mohammed Hijab
Dawah Man
Shaykh Haytham al-Hadad

Are these the guys you follow. These must your Muftis now from whom you get guidance and wisdom shown by you on this site. Do this bunch represent the Ahle Sunnah globally now. May God help the Ahle Sunnah then.

 

Related Topics

  Subject / Started by Replies Last post
1 Replies
1008 Views
Last post January 09, 2015, 04:12:03 AM
by Furkan
15 Replies
1752 Views
Last post June 25, 2017, 12:45:31 AM
by kernel
11 Replies
1313 Views
Last post August 14, 2017, 05:14:33 PM
by Rationalist
2 Replies
450 Views
Last post November 07, 2017, 03:58:55 AM
by iceman