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Ibn Taymiyyah and his extreme bias

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whoaretheshia

Ibn Taymiyyah and his extreme bias
« on: June 19, 2020, 03:44:49 PM »
Salam brothers and sisters,

I make this thread (i don't believe i have made an exact one of this nature prior) not to disparage or abuse a scholar i know many of you hold in high regard, but rather to call a spade a spade. Ibn Taymiyyah would often debate Alam al-Hilli , a Shia scholar. Many Sunni scholars, including of the Salafi group, themselves admitted that at times in trying to refute the Jafari Madhab, he would recklessly reject even that which is reliable.

Here are some very disturbing examples of that:


A believer and Munafiq are recognized by their hatred of Ali

ما كنا نعرف المنافقين على عهد رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم إلا ببغض علي.

“We did not recognise the Munafiqin in the time of the Messenger of Allah salla Llahu ‘alayhi wa sallam except by means of their hatred for ‘Ali.” [Abu Bakr al Suli: Juz Min Ahadith Abi Bakr al Suli, hadith no. 1174; Abu Nuaim: Sifat al Nifaq wa Na’t al Munafiqin, 80.]

Narrators of Bukhari and Muslim, except Harun ibn Ishaq al Kufi who is widely regarded as Saduq or Thiqah.

Ibn Taymiyyah regarded this as a fabrication in Minhaj al Sunnah al Nabawiyyah, 4/286.


Weakening Ghadir

“For whosoever I am Mawla then Ali is his Mawla”:فمن كنت مولاه فإن هذا مولاه، أو قال: فإن عليا مولاه

"Al-Albani says: “When I saw Sheikh ul Islam Ibn Taymiyah considering the Hadith (For whosoever I am Mawla then Ali is his Mawla) as weak/doubtful in its first half and “lie in its second” then I had to write in length over this issue.In my viewpoint, the reason behind such exaggeration (of Ibn Taymiyah) was that he used to be hasty in deciding the inauthenticity of some Hadiths before seeing them properly" [Silsilat ul Ahadith as-Sahiha, Volume No.4, Page No. 344]

Weakening Hadith al-Thaqalayn

“The Messenger of Allah, peace be upon him, said: “I have left behind over you (al-Thaqalayn) that which if you hold fast to it you will never go astray: the Book of Allah – one end of which is in the Hand of Allah and the other in your hands– and my Ahl al-Bayt.”

Ibn Taymiyyah in response writes: “…and as for His saying; ”If you adhere to it than you would never astray after, the Book of Allah (swt) and my Itra (Family)”, it was narrated by al Tirmidhi and Ahmad ibn Hanbal said it is weak. (Source: Bayan Talbis al-Jahmiyyah. Vol. 8. Pg. # 230 – 231).

However, this version of Thaqalayn is present through more than twenty chains, two of which are regarded as out-right Hasan by al-Albani and al-Arnaut, and are present in Sunan Abi Asim, Musnad ibn Rawayh, and Sharkh Mushkil al-Athar of Imam al-Tahawi.

Al-Albani  summarises as follows:

"the mention, in this hadith, of the members of his household, alongside the Qur’an, is like the mention of the way of the Rightly Guided Caliphs alongside the Sunnah (way) of the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) in the hadith: “I urge you to adhere to my way (Sunnah) and the way of the Rightly Guided Caliphs…”
Silsilat al-Ahaadeeth as-Saheehah (4/260).

Chain one

حدثنا سليمان بن عبيد الله الغيلاني، حدثنا أبو عامر، حدثنا كثير بن زيد، عن محمد بن عمر بن علي، عن أبيه، عن علي رضي الله عنه أن رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم قال :إني تركت فيكم ما إن أخذتم به لن تضلوا :كتاب الله، سببه بيد الله، وسببه بأيديكم، وأهل بيتي. [Musnad Ibn Rahwayh / Sunan Abi Asim]

Chain two

حدثنا إبراهيم بن مرزوق قال : حدثنا أبو عامر العقدي قال : حدثنا كثير بن زيد، عن محمد بن عمر بن علي ، عن أبيه ، عن علي ، أن النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم  – إني قد تركت فيكم ما إن أخذتم به لن تضلوا :كتاب الله سببه بأيديكم، وأهل بيتي. [Mushkil al-Athar al-Tahawi]

The only difference between the two chains is a narrator at the beginning who is indisputably Thiqah, and so the following will apply for both, although al-Albani/ al-Arnaut were grading the second chain:

1. Muhammad Nasir-ud-Dīn al-Albani included this in Silsila al-aHaadith as-Sahiha, referring to it as a strong Shawahid, whose narrators are trustworthy.
2. Shu’ayb al-Arnaut has graded the chain of narrators as ‘Hasan’ in Sharh Mushkil al-Athar.
3.Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani has graded the chain as ‘Saheeh’ in al-Matalib al-Aliyah bi Zawaid al-Masanid al-Thamaniyyah.
4.Ahmad B. Abu Bakr b.Ismail Al Busri , Itihaf al-Khiyarah al-Maharah bi Zawaid al-Masanid al-‘Ashra declares the chain as ‘Saheeh’.
5.Moulana Muhammad Abasoomar of the well-respected Hadithanswers.com also grades the chain of narrators for this tradition as ‘Hasan’ and has written: “This is a narration from Kitabus Sunnah of Imam Ibn Abi ‘Asim (rahimahullah), hadith: 1563. The chain is sound (hasan).”

As for the one present in the Musnad of Imam Ahmad, al-Albani and al-Arnaut have authenticated it:

حدثنا عبد الله حدثنى ابى عن ابن نمير ثنا عبدالملك بن ابى سليمان عن عطية العوفى عن ابى سعيد الخدرى قال قال رسول الله صلى الله عليه و سلم انى قد تركت فيكم ما ان اخذتم به لن تضلوا بعدى الثقلين احدهما اكبر من الاخر كتاب الله حبل ممدود من السماء الى الارض و عترتى اهل بيتى وانهما لن يفترقا حتى يردا على الحوض

al-Albani: وهو إسناد حسن في الشواهد  al-Arnaut: سنده حسن بالشواهد.

While the above chain would be considered weak due to Attiyah, al-Albani and al-Arnaut deemed it Hasan due to corroborating witnesses – meaning, they took into account all of the various chains of narrators to strengthen this.


Credit to the brother who has compiled this:
https://shiaresponses.wordpress.com/2019/07/07/ibn-taymiyyahs-reckless-weakening-of-merits-of-ali/
https://shiaresponses.wordpress.com/hadith-al-thaqalayn-articles/
https://shiaresponses.wordpress.com/ghadir-khumm-articles/


« Last Edit: June 19, 2020, 03:49:10 PM by whoaretheshia »
"I leave behind for you two weighty things, which if you hold onto, you will never go astray...the Quran and my Ahlulbayt" - Musnad Ibn Rawayh (al-Albani classes Isnaad *independently* as Hasan, and Matn as authentic, as does Al-Arnaut, Ibn Hajar and others.

whoaretheshia

Re: Ibn Taymiyyah and his extreme bias
« Reply #1 on: June 19, 2020, 03:51:01 PM »
There are arguably more concerning issues with Ibn Taymiyyah, such as his belief Allah has two eyes (but not like our eyes), and two ears, but not like our ears , and sees out of his two eyes, and hears out of his two ears. This is not the subject matter of the thread and has been discussed elsewhere: https://shiaresponses.wordpress.com/2019/07/07/salafi-islam-allah-has-two-eyes-he-uses-to-see-out-of/
"I leave behind for you two weighty things, which if you hold onto, you will never go astray...the Quran and my Ahlulbayt" - Musnad Ibn Rawayh (al-Albani classes Isnaad *independently* as Hasan, and Matn as authentic, as does Al-Arnaut, Ibn Hajar and others.

Abu Muhammad

Re: Ibn Taymiyyah and his extreme bias
« Reply #2 on: June 19, 2020, 08:55:34 PM »
There are arguably more concerning issues with Ibn Taymiyyah, such as his belief Allah has two eyes (but not like our eyes), and two ears, but not like our ears , and sees out of his two eyes, and hears out of his two ears. This is not the subject matter of the thread and has been discussed elsewhere: https://shiaresponses.wordpress.com/2019/07/07/salafi-islam-allah-has-two-eyes-he-uses-to-see-out-of/

Don't you want to quote Hisham Al-Hakam who is "at the same level" as Ibn Taimiyyah rather than Al-Baqir?

Noor-us-Sunnah

Re: Ibn Taymiyyah and his extreme bias
« Reply #3 on: June 19, 2020, 10:13:07 PM »
1. Hadeeth Ghadeer:

Imam Ahmad Ibn Taymiyyah at one place in his book “Minhaj as-Sunnah”, discussed the hadeeth of Ghadeer, “Man Kuntu Mawla fa Ali Mawla”. He stated that: {The addition in the hadeeth al-Ghadeer, “Allahumma Waali man Waalaah wa Aadi man Aadaah” this without a doubt false. As for “Man Kuntu Mawla fa Ali Mawla”, then this hadeeth is not in the Sihaah(the books like Sahih Bukhari, Sahih Muslim), but this hadeeth is from those what the Scholars narrated, and the people differed upon its reliability. Then He presented the examples from two groups of scholars, some who weakened it and some who authenticated it. He mentioned that it’s reported from Imam Bukhari, Ibrahim al-Harbi and a group of Scholars, that they criticzed it and weakened it. And there is another group who authenticated it, such as Imam Ahmad ibn Hanbal who deemed it Hasan(good) and also Imam Tirmidhi who graded it as Hasan(good). Then He quotes Imam Ibn Hazm who stated that its not authentic and it’s not reported from trustworthy narrators}. [Mukhtasar Minhaj as-Sunnah page 432] ; [Minhaj as-Sunnah vol 7, page 319-320] ; [Mukhtasar Minhaj as-Sunnah vol 2, page 328-329 : Urdu].

As we can see Imam Ahmad ibn Taymiyyah was quoting the differing views of Scholars over the hadeeth of Ghadeer. He didn’t mention his own view. But the people who are blinded by their dishonesty, usually misquote from Ibn Taymiyyah’s book, trying to make it appear that Ibn Taymiyyah weakened hadeeth al-Ghadeer, while the fact is that he was quoting differing views of Scholars over Hadeeth al-Ghadeer.

However, to expose the deceit of misguided people, let us quote the opinion of Imam Ahmad Ibn Taymiyyah, where he authenticated hadeeth al-Ghadeer.

Imam Ahmad ibn Taymiyyah(rah) stated: …. From it what is Sahih(authentic) is….Ali is the Mawla of whosoever’s Prophet is Mawla.[Minhaj as-sunnah vol 5, page 33-36].

Hence, we find Imam Ahmad ibn Taymiyyah clearly authenticated the Hadeeth al-Ghadeer.
https://youpuncturedtheark.files.wordpress.com/2019/03/minhaj-as-sunnah-vol-5-page-33-36.jpg

2. Hadeeth Thaqalayn (weak version) - Ibn Taymiyyah was correct in weakening it and it shows his deep knowledge in judging a report, because the weak version contradicts the authentic version of Hadeeth Thaqalayn, which clearly states Quran alone to be adhered inorder to not go astray.

details are in this article:
https://youpuncturedtheark.wordpress.com/2015/02/19/hadeeth-al-thaqalayntwo-weighty-things-the-correct-understanding-and-a-spot-on-perspective-of-sunnis/

Abu Muhammad

Re: Ibn Taymiyyah and his extreme bias
« Reply #4 on: June 20, 2020, 06:49:11 AM »
1. Hadeeth Ghadeer:

Imam Ahmad Ibn Taymiyyah at one place in his book “Minhaj as-Sunnah”, discussed the hadeeth of Ghadeer, “Man Kuntu Mawla fa Ali Mawla”. He stated that: {The addition in the hadeeth al-Ghadeer, “Allahumma Waali man Waalaah wa Aadi man Aadaah” this without a doubt false. As for “Man Kuntu Mawla fa Ali Mawla”, then this hadeeth is not in the Sihaah(the books like Sahih Bukhari, Sahih Muslim), but this hadeeth is from those what the Scholars narrated, and the people differed upon its reliability. Then He presented the examples from two groups of scholars, some who weakened it and some who authenticated it. He mentioned that it’s reported from Imam Bukhari, Ibrahim al-Harbi and a group of Scholars, that they criticzed it and weakened it. And there is another group who authenticated it, such as Imam Ahmad ibn Hanbal who deemed it Hasan(good) and also Imam Tirmidhi who graded it as Hasan(good). Then He quotes Imam Ibn Hazm who stated that its not authentic and it’s not reported from trustworthy narrators}. [Mukhtasar Minhaj as-Sunnah page 432] ; [Minhaj as-Sunnah vol 7, page 319-320] ; [Mukhtasar Minhaj as-Sunnah vol 2, page 328-329 : Urdu].

As we can see Imam Ahmad ibn Taymiyyah was quoting the differing views of Scholars over the hadeeth of Ghadeer. He didn’t mention his own view. But the people who are blinded by their dishonesty, usually misquote from Ibn Taymiyyah’s book, trying to make it appear that Ibn Taymiyyah weakened hadeeth al-Ghadeer, while the fact is that he was quoting differing views of Scholars over Hadeeth al-Ghadeer.

However, to expose the deceit of misguided people, let us quote the opinion of Imam Ahmad Ibn Taymiyyah, where he authenticated hadeeth al-Ghadeer.

Imam Ahmad ibn Taymiyyah(rah) stated: …. From it what is Sahih(authentic) is….Ali is the Mawla of whosoever’s Prophet is Mawla.[Minhaj as-sunnah vol 5, page 33-36].

Hence, we find Imam Ahmad ibn Taymiyyah clearly authenticated the Hadeeth al-Ghadeer.
https://youpuncturedtheark.files.wordpress.com/2019/03/minhaj-as-sunnah-vol-5-page-33-36.jpg

2. Hadeeth Thaqalayn (weak version) - Ibn Taymiyyah was correct in weakening it and it shows his deep knowledge in judging a report, because the weak version contradicts the authentic version of Hadeeth Thaqalayn, which clearly states Quran alone to be adhered inorder to not go astray.

details are in this article:
https://youpuncturedtheark.wordpress.com/2015/02/19/hadeeth-al-thaqalayntwo-weighty-things-the-correct-understanding-and-a-spot-on-perspective-of-sunnis/


It is always refreshing to read every time brother Noor-us-Sunnah laid out his points.

I was leaning towards Shi'ism when I was first exposed to the sect more than a decade ago but alhamdulillah, your articles (together with TSN) had become a major asbab that made me remained steadfast on Ahlus Sunnah. Truly I have learned a lot from you.

Jazakallahu kathiran, brother. May Allah protect and bless you always.

👍👍👍👍👍

Noor-us-Sunnah

Re: Ibn Taymiyyah and his extreme bias
« Reply #5 on: June 20, 2020, 02:23:15 PM »
It is always refreshing to read every time brother Noor-us-Sunnah laid out his points.

I was leaning towards Shi'ism when I was first exposed to the sect more than a decade ago but alhamdulillah, your articles (together with TSN) had become a major asbab that made me remained steadfast on Ahlus Sunnah. Truly I have learned a lot from you.

Jazakallahu kathiran, brother. May Allah protect and bless you always.

👍👍👍👍👍

Alhamdulillah! Wa iyyakum. May Allah keep you steadfast on the saved sect.

MuslimK

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Re: Ibn Taymiyyah and his extreme bias
« Reply #6 on: June 20, 2020, 02:31:25 PM »
It is always refreshing to read every time brother Noor-us-Sunnah laid out his points.

I was leaning towards Shi'ism when I was first exposed to the sect more than a decade ago but alhamdulillah, your articles (together with TSN) had become a major asbab that made me remained steadfast on Ahlus Sunnah. Truly I have learned a lot from you.

Jazakallahu kathiran, brother. May Allah protect and bless you always.

👍👍👍👍👍

Praise be to Allah! May Allah reward all the defenders of the Sunnah.
در خلافت میل نیست ای بی‌خبر
میل کی آید ز بوبکر و عمر
میل اگر بودی در آن دو مقتدا
هر دو کردندی پسر را پیشوا

عطار نِیشابوری

www.Nahjul-Balagha.net | www.TwelverShia.net | www.ghadirkhumm.com

Noor-us-Sunnah

Re: Ibn Taymiyyah and his extreme bias
« Reply #7 on: June 20, 2020, 02:33:51 PM »
There are arguably more concerning issues with Ibn Taymiyyah, such as his belief Allah has two eyes (but not like our eyes), and two ears, but not like our ears , and sees out of his two eyes, and hears out of his two ears. This is not the subject matter of the thread and has been discussed elsewhere: https://shiaresponses.wordpress.com/2019/07/07/salafi-islam-allah-has-two-eyes-he-uses-to-see-out-of/

What is the issue with it?

 Sharif Murtadha has no problem if a person said Allah is body unlike other bodies. Which even Ibn Taymiyyah didnt say.

Shia Scholar Shiekh Hasan bin al-Shaheed al-Thani, in his “Tahrir at-Tawusi” page 594 states:

    حكى السيد رحمه الله من كتاب أحمد بن محمد بن خالد البرقي في حال هشام انه قال: هشام بن الحكم، مولى بني شيبان كوفي، تحول من الكوفة إلى بغداد، وكنيته أبو محمد، وفي كتاب سعد: له كتاب، وكان من غلمان أبي شاكر الزنديق، جسمي رؤيي (2). قلت: ذكر المرتضى رضي الله عنه في كتاب الشافي جوابا لرمي هشام بالتجسيم ما هذا لفظه: فأما ما رمي به هشام بن الحكم رحمه الله من القول (3) بالتجسيم فالظاهر من الحكاية عنه القول بجسم لا كالاجسام، ولا خلاف في أن
    هذا القول ليس بتشبيه
and it was narrated by Sayeed from the book of Ahmad ibn Muhammad ibn Khalid al-Barqi about Hisham: Hisham ibn Hakam, Mawla of Banu Shayban Kufi, moved from al-Kufa to Baghdad, and his kunya was Abu Muhammad, and in the book of Sad: He (Hisham) has a book, and was from servants of Abu Shakeer HERETIC, (HISHAM) HOLD ANTHROPOMORPHIC VIEWS. I say: Al-Murtada mentioned in his book ash-Shafe answer to the accusation of Hisham in anthropomorphism, with this words: As for accusation of Hisham ibn Hakam (may Allah forgive him) in anthropomorphism then what is apparent from what was narrated from him, he use to say (that Allah has) body not like (all) bodies, AND THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE IN THE VIEWS THAT THIS SAYING IS NOT LIKENING (ALLAH TO THE CREATION).

 

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