if you think Aisha is not the mother of muminun then you are a kafir =ibn Abbas

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taha taha

Ibn Abbas’s (ra) debate with Harooreyya (Hawarej)
Abdurrazzak, Abu Nuaym, Bayhakee and others

Narrated from Ibn Abbas, He said: Hawarij came together in a place with hatred and agreed upon to oppose (by fighting) with Ali (ra) and the Prophet (saw)’s ashab (companions) who stayed with Ali (ra). He {Ibn Abbas (ra)} said: A man came and he started saying O Amir al Muminun (chief) this group will oppose you. Ali (ra) replied: Leave them alone until they come and fight with me. For they will (fight with me).

One day I told Ali (ra) O Amir al Muminun delay the pray so I will not miss, and meantime I will go and talk to them. He (Ali) said: I (Ali) fear they will hurt you. I (Ibn Abbas) replied: No, They won’t hurt me insha’Allah. I am a kind man who is gentile towards everyone and I never hurt anyone.

Ibni Abbas (ra) said: I wore one of the most beautiful cloths from this yamamniyya (a kind of fabric). (Abu Zammal added: Ibni Abbas was a beautiful, handsome man) Ibni Abbas said: I went the place they were at. They were resting hence it was noon. I’ve never seen anyone with strong effort in ibadaah as them. Their hands were like the knees of camels. (Due to doing so much ibadaah their hands got marked) The mark of sujuud (worship) could be seen on their faces easily. They had washed cloths on. Their faces were thin due to lack of sleep.

When I arrived there they asked me: “What about this cloth you are wearing?” Ibni Abbas: “Do you criticize me with this? I saw better one on the prophet (saw) and then this verse revealed: “Say: Who hath forbidden the beautiful (gifts) of Allah, which He hath produced for His servants, and the things, clean and pure, (which He hath provided) for sustenance?”” (al-Araf 32)

“Why did you come here?” they asked. Ibn Abbas replied: “I came here to mention to you about the people who were the companions of the prophet (saw), and the ones whom the verses of Qur’an was revealed on, none of them are here with you.” Some of them said: “Do not argue with Quraish. Allah (swt) stated: “They are a contentious people”” (az-Zukhruf 58) Two or three of them said: “Talk to them.”

Ibni Abbas said: “What is your problem with the cousin and the son in-law of the prophet (saw), and the first one to have iman, and the one whom the companions stand with?” They said: “We opposed him with three things.” Ibn Abbas said: “What are they?”

They replied: “The first is that He obtained an arbitrator in the deen of Allah. Whereas Allah (swt) stated: “the command is for none but Allah.” (Yusuf 40). After Allah’s statement what will be left for the people to rule on?” “What else?” said Ibn Abbas. They replied: “Ali fought with some people but he did not take any slave nor spoil (ganimaah). If the ones whom he fought with were kaafir their merchandise should be permissible for Ali. (He should take their goods as capture) If they were Muslims, it was not permissible to shed their blood.” “What else?” said Ibn Abbas. They replied: “He disclaimed from the title of being Amir al Muminun. If he is not Amir al Muminun then he is Amir al kafirun.” “Do you have any other claim?” asked Ibn Abbas. They said: “These are enough for us.”

Ibni Abbas: “If I provide evidence from Allah’s (swt) muhkam book and His (swt) prophets’ (saw) sunnah would you change your claims?” They replied: “Yes” Ibn Abbas continued: “About your opinion of mankind’s ruling in the deen of Allah (swt); Allah (swt) stated: from ““O ye who believe! Kill not game while in the sacred precincts or in pilgrim garb...” to “as adjudged by two just men among you” (al-Maeda 95) regarding a wife and her husband Allah (swt) stated: “If ye fear a breach between them twain, appoint (two) arbiters, one from his family, and the other from hers” (an-Nisa 35) Now, I am asking you with administration to you with the oath of Allah (swt): Is it better to give ruling to stop peoples’ killing each other, to bring them together, or to give ruling on its worth will be only a quarter of a dirham a rabbit; and a few women? Moreover you know that if He (swt) wished He (swt) would give the hukm (ruling) and He (swt) would not leave the hukm for the mankind.” They said: “Wallahi {oath of the name of Allah (swt)} to stop peoples’ killing each other, to bring them together is better.”

Ibn Abbas continued: “About your opinion of Ali fought with the people but he did not take any slave nor ganimaah. Tell me do you swear at your mother Aisha (raa) or do you render permissible for her what is permissible for other women? If so you are kaafir. If you say she (raa) is not the mother of muminun then you are kafir and out of the fold of Islam. Allah (swt) stated: “The Prophet is closer to the Believers than their own selves, and his wives are their mothers.” (al-Ahzab 6) It is shown that you are stumble in the middle of two heresies whichever you choose. Now do you back down from your opinions?” They looked each other and said: “Wallahi yes.”

Ibn Abbas continued: “About your opinion of His (ra) disclaiming from the title of being Amir al Muminun; I am going to tell you something you will like. On the day of Hudaibiyya the prophet (saw) invited the Quraish to write an agreement. He (saw) would correspond with Suhayl b Amr and Abu Sufyan. The prophet (saw) said: O Ali (ra) write! This is the ruling of Allahs’ (saw) prophet Muhammad (saw). They said: Wallahi if we had accepted you as Allahs’ (swt) messenger we would not keep you away from Ka’aba and we would not fight against you. Write Muhammad b. Abdullah (saw) instead. The prophet (saw) replied: Even if you contradict with me about this matter Wallahi I am truly His (swt) prophet. Write O Ali! Muhammad b Abdullah. Prophet (saw) was on the better rank than Ali (ra) He (saw) accepted not to be mentioned as a prophet, and this will not take him out of fold of prophets. Now do you back down from this opinion too?” They said: “Wallahi yes (we backed down).”

Muhammed Selefy's note:
After this 2000 of them backed down alhamduli'Allah and 4000 of them were killed as a deviant.

Optimus Prime

Is it authentic?

taha taha

This is history.
This did take place with the khawarij and some of the information is well know.
About all of it then we need to go back to the Arabic text, and check the chain.

taha taha

The Debate of ibn Abbas with the khawarij - The First Deviation in the History of Islam

Abu Jasim Al-Salafi

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Jazakallah khair brother, yes, this is authentic history, Ibn Abbas (رضي الله عنهما) did debate the khawarij and some returned to the straight path of following the Qur'an and the Sunnah and not making takfir on people for committing sins and others stayed on the wrong path.

Abdulrazaq put this debate in al-Musannaf 10/157 #18678 (, also al-Nasa'i in al-Sunan al-Kubrah 7/479 (, and others.

May Allah guide the Shi'a to the truth. Ameen.

Student of Comparative Religion - Refuter of allegations made against Islam by Christians and Atheists.

taha taha

It is well know it's just when I read it, it just stuck out a mile.

If you say she (raa) is not the mother of muminun then you are kafir and out of the fold of Islam. Allah (swt) stated: “The Prophet is closer to the Believers than their own selves, and his wives are their mothers.” (al-Ahzab 6)

They do much worse than this nowadays.
This was arguing with the khwarij yet it can just as well be used against the Raafidah as well

taha taha

(1) - السنن الكبرى للنسائي (7/ 480) (8522) صحيح
الكتاب: الخلاصة في أحكام الأسرى
المؤلف: علي بن نايف الشحود

taha taha

This title although was the translation of the comment of ibn Abbas was changed 
if you think Aisha is not the mother of muminun then you are a kafir =ibn Abbas

this as it seemed not appropriate
Aisha (ra) is Ummul Mumineen

as to not offend people on another forum.
how strange we can not make the same comment of the sahaba and propagate it 
« Last Edit: July 22, 2016, 09:25:39 PM by taha taha »


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