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Sunni Shia Discussion Forum => General Sunni-Shia => Topic started by: muslim720 on January 10, 2020, 05:41:08 PM

Title: Leaked Archive of Iranian Spy Cables Highlight Soleimani's Crimes
Post by: muslim720 on January 10, 2020, 05:41:08 PM
Salaam alaykum wa rahmatullah,

I will highlight the main portion of the article.

"'It is mandatory and necessary to put some limits and borders on the violence being inflicted against innocent Sunni people in Iraq and the things that Mr. Suleimani is doing.  Otherwise, the violence between Shia and Sunni will continue,' the MOIS report continued.  'At the moment, whatever happens to Sunnis, directly or indirectly, is seen as having been done by Iran even when Iran has nothing to do with it.'"

Source: https://theintercept.com/2020/01/05/secret-iranian-spy-cables-show-how-qassim-suleimani-wielded-his-enormous-power-in-iraq/
Title: Re: Leaked Archive of Iranian Spy Cables Highlight Soleimani's Crimes
Post by: muslim720 on January 10, 2020, 05:42:21 PM
Before someone goes that route, The Intercept is known for being one of the least biased of the news sources and the author, Murtaza Hussain, is a Shia.
Title: Re: Leaked Archive of Iranian Spy Cables Highlight Soleimani's Crimes
Post by: iceman on January 10, 2020, 06:32:24 PM
Before someone goes that route, The Intercept is known for being one of the least biased of the news sources and the author, Murtaza Hussain, is a Shia.

And what are you trying to say and justify here, that one should automatically believe in and accept it. It's just information. And information can be either true or false or anywhere in between. And before you go down that route this applies to anyone and anything.
Title: Re: Leaked Archive of Iranian Spy Cables Highlight Soleimani's Crimes
Post by: muslim720 on January 11, 2020, 01:25:47 AM
And what are you trying to say and justify here, that one should automatically believe in and accept it. It's just information. And information can be either true or false or anywhere in between. And before you go down that route this applies to anyone and anything.

Do you know MOIS (Ministry of Intelligence and Security) of Iran?  Also known as VAJA, previously called VEVAK, it is the primary intelligence agency of the Islamic Republic of Iran.

If you deny this sort of evidence against Soleimani, you might as well deny everything Iran says against Saudi Arabia because that too is "information" which "can be either true or false or anywhere in between".
Title: Re: Leaked Archive of Iranian Spy Cables Highlight Soleimani's Crimes
Post by: iceman on January 12, 2020, 12:55:05 AM
Do you know MOIS (Ministry of Intelligence and Security) of Iran?  Also known as VAJA, previously called VEVAK, it is the primary intelligence agency of the Islamic Republic of Iran.

If you deny this sort of evidence against Soleimani, you might as well deny everything Iran says against Saudi Arabia because that too is "information" which "can be either true or false or anywhere in between".

Rejecting or accepting depends on the source of information as well as facts. But you're trying to make others believe in what you put forward. This is Iran and its Shia governed. And that's the only problem. If this was Sunni governed and it doesn't matter what they got up to, you wouldn't say a word against them. You would be hell-bent in defending and justifying them.
Title: Re: Leaked Archive of Iranian Spy Cables Highlight Soleimani's Crimes
Post by: iceman on January 12, 2020, 02:03:25 AM
https://youtu.be/pbC2BfruYDQ
Title: Re: Leaked Archive of Iranian Spy Cables Highlight Soleimani's Crimes
Post by: Khaled on January 12, 2020, 04:34:44 PM
And that's the only problem. If this was Sunni governed and it doesn't matter what they got up to, you wouldn't say a word against them. You would be hell-bent in defending and justifying them.

LOL this has never happened, not even ONCE, on this site, and I'm speaking for ALL the members here.   :D

Everyone here is critical of ALL the governments in the Muslim world, Iran and Saudi included.  Why is this so hard for you to understand?  Or is it because, if you accept this, your whole wold view will shatter? 
Title: Re: Leaked Archive of Iranian Spy Cables Highlight Soleimani's Crimes
Post by: iceman on January 13, 2020, 01:40:27 AM
LOL this has never happened, not even ONCE, on this site, and I'm speaking for ALL the members here.   :D

Everyone here is critical of ALL the governments in the Muslim world, Iran and Saudi included.  Why is this so hard for you to understand?  Or is it because, if you accept this, your whole wold view will shatter?

Show me one thread that has been started on any other country or government apart from Iran based on criticism and condemnation? Who are you kidding 😊
Title: Re: Leaked Archive of Iranian Spy Cables Highlight Soleimani's Crimes
Post by: muslim720 on January 13, 2020, 06:16:26 AM
Rejecting or accepting depends on the source of information as well as facts.

The source of the information is the Ministry of Intelligence and Security, the primary intelligence agency of Iran, and the facts (which they have outlined) have been made public after the leaked cables.  And the article was published in one of the least bias media sources by way of a Shi'i journalist.

Denying this will not get you far.

 
Quote
But you're trying to make others believe in what you put forward.

Do the following:

1.  Learn about the "Ministry of Intelligence and Security (MOIS)" of Iran.

2.  Read the article and understand what "leaked cables" means.

Then accuse me of whatever you want AFTER you have understood Soleimani's crimes.

By the way, the leaked cables only highlight his reign of terror from 2013 - 2015.  God knows his list of crimes from 2015 until his death.


Quote
This is Iran and its Shia governed. And that's the only problem. If this was Sunni governed and it doesn't matter what they got up to, you wouldn't say a word against them.

I am not saying anything.  I am showing you what the Iranian Ministry of Intelligence and Security was saying about Soleimani.
Title: Re: Leaked Archive of Iranian Spy Cables Highlight Soleimani's Crimes
Post by: muslim720 on January 13, 2020, 06:24:35 AM
LOL this has never happened, not even ONCE, on this site, and I'm speaking for ALL the members here.   :D

Everyone here is critical of ALL the governments in the Muslim world, Iran and Saudi included.  Why is this so hard for you to understand?  Or is it because, if you accept this, your whole wold view will shatter? 

Salaam alaykum wa rahmatullah,

Believe it or not, I have spent the past three days binge-watching Adel bin Ahmed Al-Jubeir, the Saudi Minister of Foreign Affairs.

I watched his "Council on Foreign Relations" interviews from Septembers 2017, 2018 and 2019.  I must say I am amazed to not only find out that the Saudis have such an intelligent and articulate man at their disposal, but also that they (Saudis) have a narrative.

I remember visiting the Shi'i mosques in our area - two of them clearly funded by Iranian players - always highlighting Saudi "crimes".  It was customary to see flyers highlighting an upcoming protest outside the Saudi Embassy for the arrest and execution of Nimr al-Nimr, or any other such event without contextualizing it.

Now I can see why the Iranians have dominated perceptions in the Middle East because it has utilized media to its advantage (much like how Shias got into propagating Shiaism via internet much before Sunnis).

I am not a fan of him but one of Mohammed bin Salman's visions, part of Vision 2030, is to bring Saudi narrative out in the open to challenge the Iranian one.  And if that happens, the average uninformed, emotionally-charged Sunnis - those who have been duped by talks of "resistance in the Holy Land", "fighting Imperialism", "fighting Wahabism", etc (all of which keeps the region destabilized and ensures the maximum extension of Iranian proxies' tentacles in countries far beyond the region) - will all have a very different opinion on Iran in the next few years.
Title: Re: Leaked Archive of Iranian Spy Cables Highlight Soleimani's Crimes
Post by: iceman on January 13, 2020, 11:56:52 AM
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Council_of_Resistance_of_Iran&ved=2ahUKEwjf__62mYDnAhUgQxUIHXmTDGQQFjABegQIDhAG&usg=AOvVaw3ROLhx_NH6orKaqG2GrEug

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://fas.org/irp/world/para/mek.htm&ved=2ahUKEwizk_HRm4DnAhWMVBUIHd1FBs8QFjAMegQIChAB&usg=AOvVaw2_OgPzXgaHlq5TkPZbstFl

Iran has every right to deal with these terrorists. These are the organisations that have been causing unrest and killings within Iran. This is the true cause of any protests in Iran that are instigated by these terror organisations against the peaceful Iranian government. The government has every right to react towards handling these organisations which are trying to cause unrest in Iran. Don't confuse this with popular uprising.
Title: Re: Leaked Archive of Iranian Spy Cables Highlight Soleimani's Crimes
Post by: iceman on January 13, 2020, 12:18:14 PM
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Council_of_Resistance_of_Iran&ved=2ahUKEwjf__62mYDnAhUgQxUIHXmTDGQQFjABegQIDhAG&usg=AOvVaw3ROLhx_NH6orKaqG2GrEug

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://fas.org/irp/world/para/mek.htm&ved=2ahUKEwizk_HRm4DnAhWMVBUIHd1FBs8QFjAMegQIChAB&usg=AOvVaw2_OgPzXgaHlq5TkPZbstFl

Iran has every right to deal with these terrorists. These are the organisations that have been causing unrest and killings within Iran. This is the true cause of any protests in Iran that are instigated by these terror organisations against the peaceful Iranian government. The government has every right to react towards handling these organisations which are trying to cause unrest in Iran. Don't confuse this with popular uprising.

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-25523482&ved=2ahUKEwiVjfqCnoDnAhVrThUIHYxoAGwQFjAKegQIAxAB&usg=AOvVaw3fYsn-WSg9v0b1xI7gUTVd

See what Iran and the Iranian revolution is and has been dealing with. Lets show both sides of the story. Why isn't anyone highlighting this. Qasim Soleimani was assigned to deal with these groups who have been killing Iranians around the globe as well as killing Iranians in Iran as well as trying to cause unrest in Iran.

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.newsweek.com/2019/09/06/iran-regime-fall-opposition-groups-mek-1456420.html%3Famp%3D1&ved=2ahUKEwi_laGtn4DnAhU4VRUIHdFhCesQFjAIegQIChAB&usg=AOvVaw3sgJxQdnqR086piMT6Dmi8&ampcf=1

What, Rudi Guliaini addressing a Raleigh of a terrorist group in Albania? And you're wondering about Iran's behaviour. No wonder the UK Ambassador to Tehran was arrested in Iran over such activities.
Title: Re: Leaked Archive of Iranian Spy Cables Highlight Soleimani's Crimes
Post by: Mythbuster1 on January 13, 2020, 03:21:15 PM
Show me one thread that has been started on any other country or government apart from Iran based on criticism and condemnation? Who are you kidding 😊

Mr Dimwit we have CONDEMNED any Sunni country or government, YOU can and I’m sure a poster did a thread on that do the same and make a thread on Sunni countries and their atrocities, the fact that you HAVENT and instead repetitively accuse and lie of our hate for Iran cos it’s shia shows you are all hot air and full of it you have nothing.😂

Who are you kidding.....joker😂😂
Title: Re: Leaked Archive of Iranian Spy Cables Highlight Soleimani's Crimes
Post by: muslim720 on January 13, 2020, 07:37:41 PM
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Council_of_Resistance_of_Iran&ved=2ahUKEwjf__62mYDnAhUgQxUIHXmTDGQQFjABegQIDhAG&usg=AOvVaw3ROLhx_NH6orKaqG2GrEug

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://fas.org/irp/world/para/mek.htm&ved=2ahUKEwizk_HRm4DnAhWMVBUIHd1FBs8QFjAMegQIChAB&usg=AOvVaw2_OgPzXgaHlq5TkPZbstFl

Iran has every right to deal with these terrorists. These are the organisations that have been causing unrest and killings within Iran. This is the true cause of any protests in Iran that are instigated by these terror organisations against the peaceful Iranian government. The government has every right to react towards handling these organisations which are trying to cause unrest in Iran. Don't confuse this with popular uprising.

What has any of this got to do with the leaked cables from MOIS?  How does any of this justify the killings of Sunnis in Iraq, a crime for which Soleimani was suggested to be reprimanded?


Quote
See what Iran and the Iranian revolution is and has been dealing with. Lets show both sides of the story. Why isn't anyone highlighting this. Qasim Soleimani was assigned to deal with these groups who have been killing Iranians around the globe as well as killing Iranians in Iran as well as trying to cause unrest in Iran.

Soleimani, as per the MOIS of Iran, was found guilty of killing Sunnis in Iraq, not MEK members.


Quote
What, Rudi Guliaini addressing a Raleigh of a terrorist group in Albania? And you're wondering about Iran's behaviour. No wonder the UK Ambassador to Tehran was arrested in Iran over such activities.

That still does not absolve Soleimani's crimes.
Title: Re: Leaked Archive of Iranian Spy Cables Highlight Soleimani's Crimes
Post by: iceman on January 13, 2020, 10:23:03 PM
What has any of this got to do with the leaked cables from MOIS?  How does any of this justify the killings of Sunnis in Iraq, a crime for which Soleimani was suggested to be reprimanded?


Soleimani, as per the MOIS of Iran, was found guilty of killing Sunnis in Iraq, not MEK members.


That still does not absolve Soleimani's crimes.

When the Soviets finally left Afghanistan those who put up a united front fell apart with each other. The Taliban of pashtun origin who were part of the coalition against the Soviets turned and fought against those Afghans who were different than them. When the Taliban fought and gained control of most of Afghanistan they butchered and slaughtered the others. When they took control of Mazhar Sharif 6000 men and boys were killed in cold blood. Their crime, they were Shia. Iran did call on the United Nations and the international community that this will happen and what was going on in Afghanistan by the Taliban and what the Taliban will do if they get control but the United Nations and the international community turned a blind eye. They ignored Iran's call.

That was Afghanistan. Now Pakistan. Since the mid eighties Sipa e Sahaba emerged then followed by Lashkar e Jangvi. Brutal killings of Shias as well as moderate Sunnis and other minorities took place throughout Pakistan and is still happening. The government had no control over these groups and couldn't prevent the killings or protect the minorities. Iraq. Shia killings along with Kurds were common in Iraq during Saddam's government and after by Sunni militias and militants. Syria. The threat of ISIS emerged a Sunni militia killing Shias and moderate Sunnis along with other minorities. Yemen. The Houthis were being butchered and slaughtered at large but all this and no concern or reaction from the United Nations or the international community what so ever.

Now Iran decided to take action and do what it can to get these Shias and those moderate Sunnis to protect and defend themselves by standing up for themselves and protecting their lives and families. Because no one is going to help them or come to their aid and protect them. This is exactly where Qasim Soleimani comes in. He was purchased in place and in charge to deal with this. We need to thank Iran (Qasim Soleimani) and Hizbullah along with other Shia militias who put up a united front against ISIS and defeated this poisonous organisation.
Title: Re: Leaked Archive of Iranian Spy Cables Highlight Soleimani's Crimes
Post by: muslim720 on January 13, 2020, 10:33:27 PM
When the Soviets finally left Afghanistan those who put up a united front fell apart with each other. The Taliban of pashtun origin who were part of the coalition against the Soviets turned and fought against those Afghans who were different than them. When the Taliban fought and gained control of most of Afghanistan they butchered and slaughtered the others. When they took control of Mazhar Sharif 6000 men and boys were killed in cold blood. Their crime, they were Shia. Iran did call on the United Nations and the international community that this will happen and what was going on in Afghanistan by the Taliban and what the Taliban will do if they get control but the United Nations and the international community turned a blind eye. They ignored Iran's call.

What does that have to do with Soleimani and the main point in this discussion?

By the way, since you talked about the crimes committed by the Taliban, guess who is warming up to them?  IRAN!


Quote
That was Afghanistan. Now Pakistan. Since the mid eighties Sipa e Sahaba emerged then followed by Lashkar e Jangvi. Brutal killings of Shias as well as moderate Sunnis and other minorities took place throughout Pakistan and is still happening. The government had no control over these groups and couldn't prevent the killings or protect the minorities. Iraq. Shia killings along with Kurds were common in Iraq during Saddam's government and after by Sunni militias and militants. Syria. The threat of ISIS emerged a Sunni militia killing Shias and moderate Sunnis along with other minorities. Yemen. The Houthis were being butchered and slaughtered at large but all this and no concern or reaction from the United Nations or the international community what so ever.

I wholeheartedly condemn every atrocity committed upon our Shi'i brothers in the name of sectarianism by Sunnis.  You don't even need to provide me evidence; I will take your word for it.  I accept that Lashkar-E-Jangvi did what you say they did and I condemn them.

Can you also condemn Soleimani for crimes he committed against Sunnis in Iraq, as highlighted by Iran's MOIS?


Quote
Now Iran decided to take action and do what it can to get these Shias and those moderate Sunnis to protect and defend themselves by standing up for themselves and protecting their lives and families. Because no one is going to help them or come to their aid and protect them. This is exactly where Qasim Soleimani comes in. He was purchased in place and in charge to deal with this. We need to thank Iran (Qasim Soleimani) and Hizbullah along with other Shia militias who put up a united front against ISIS and defeated this poisonous organisation.

The Taliban are also fighting ISIS from laying roots in Afghanistan.  Does that make them noble too?

Once again, what does any of this have to do with my main point?  Iran's primary intelligence says that Soleimani committed atrocities against Sunnis from 2013 - 2015.  Not considering the possibility that his atrocities continued, can you condemn him for the crimes his own country found him guilty of?
Title: Re: Leaked Archive of Iranian Spy Cables Highlight Soleimani's Crimes
Post by: iceman on January 13, 2020, 11:30:24 PM
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Hazara_people&ved=2ahUKEwim_uHvtIHnAhWyVRUIHSAoD8sQFjAOegQIBBAB&usg=AOvVaw0ijv6l9wEbenN0sNBhCNCC
Title: Re: Leaked Archive of Iranian Spy Cables Highlight Soleimani's Crimes
Post by: iceman on January 13, 2020, 11:58:38 PM
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Hazara_people&ved=2ahUKEwim_uHvtIHnAhWyVRUIHSAoD8sQFjAOegQIBBAB&usg=AOvVaw0ijv6l9wEbenN0sNBhCNCC

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.lowyinstitute.org/the-interpreter/hazaras-not-safe&ved=2ahUKEwjQrvrKtYHnAhW3VhUIHVFqAVQQFjAUegQICBAB&usg=AOvVaw1KlQIIaU3RmvXbpdzW2np9
Title: Re: Leaked Archive of Iranian Spy Cables Highlight Soleimani's Crimes
Post by: iceman on January 14, 2020, 12:07:45 AM
What does that have to do with Soleimani and the main point in this discussion?

By the way, since you talked about the crimes committed by the Taliban, guess who is warming up to them?  IRAN!


I wholeheartedly condemn every atrocity committed upon our Shi'i brothers in the name of sectarianism by Sunnis.  You don't even need to provide me evidence; I will take your word for it.  I accept that Lashkar-E-Jangvi did what you say they did and I condemn them.

Can you also condemn Soleimani for crimes he committed against Sunnis in Iraq, as highlighted by Iran's MOIS?


The Taliban are also fighting ISIS from laying roots in Afghanistan.  Does that make them noble too?

Once again, what does any of this have to do with my main point?  Iran's primary intelligence says that Soleimani committed atrocities against Sunnis from 2013 - 2015.  Not considering the possibility that his atrocities continued, can you condemn him for the crimes his own country found him guilty of?

Condemn Soleimani on what, for helping and aiding those who were oppressed (Shias as well as moderate Sunni Barelvis)  to fight against ISIS. Now which moderate, peaceful and noble Sunnis did Soleimani kill or ordered to be killed and why? How come nothing was ever said or mentioned until his assassination?
Title: Re: Leaked Archive of Iranian Spy Cables Highlight Soleimani's Crimes
Post by: iceman on January 14, 2020, 03:47:40 AM
https://youtu.be/4f9SGOas2Tc

https://youtu.be/T-CNuudRVLs
Title: Re: Leaked Archive of Iranian Spy Cables Highlight Soleimani's Crimes
Post by: iceman on January 14, 2020, 12:48:57 PM
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.theguardian.com/news/2018/nov/09/mek-iran-revolution-regime-trump-rajavi&ved=2ahUKEwiF14qD5YLnAhXWRBUIHTFKApQQFjAFegQIAxAB&usg=AOvVaw3RpRHNVlSiVFDu-wWQJcU4

So now we know and learn about the protests in Iran and who's behind them. It's the same members and loyalists of the terror group MEK MUJAHIDEEN E KHALQ. And what are the western diplomats doing associating and engaging with them. So now we know why Iran is behaving in such a way.
Title: Re: Leaked Archive of Iranian Spy Cables Highlight Soleimani's Crimes
Post by: Adil on January 14, 2020, 12:57:29 PM
Can Ice man be given a warning please? Dude just posted the same post on 5-6 threads. Hes just spamming for lols.
Title: Re: Leaked Archive of Iranian Spy Cables Highlight Soleimani's Crimes
Post by: iceman on January 14, 2020, 01:07:10 PM
Can Ice man be given a warning please? Dude just posted the same post on 5-6 threads. Hes just spamming for lols.

I just want people to get to know and learn about the facts. That's all. You seem very worried and concerned. People read different threads and sometimes not others. Is the truth hurting you.
Title: Re: Leaked Archive of Iranian Spy Cables Highlight Soleimani's Crimes
Post by: Adil on January 14, 2020, 01:09:58 PM
I just want people to get to know and learn about the facts. That's all. You seem very worried and concerned. People read different threads and and sometimes not others. Is the truth hurting you.

Then make a brand new thread and share what you want us to know. Don't spam several threads with the same copy pasted link and text.
Title: Re: Leaked Archive of Iranian Spy Cables Highlight Soleimani's Crimes
Post by: Mythbuster1 on January 14, 2020, 01:14:14 PM
Then make a brand new thread and share what you want us to know. Don't spam several threads with the same copy pasted link and text.

He is a kid he has to have the last say even if it’s nonsense just look at the history of his posts he will NEVER open a thread instead he loves to troll on other threads and then he sidetracks when confronted.......this guy ain’t genuine just a biased shia troll.
Title: Re: Leaked Archive of Iranian Spy Cables Highlight Soleimani's Crimes
Post by: iceman on January 14, 2020, 01:14:23 PM
Then make a brand new thread and share what you want us to know. Don't spam several threads with the same copy pasted link and text.

You seem extremely worried. Oh, and the Americans say "we don't want regime change in Iran" 😊 DOUBLE STANDARDS. Don't worry, I'll start a separate thread from now on. Relax.
Title: Re: Leaked Archive of Iranian Spy Cables Highlight Soleimani's Crimes
Post by: Khaled on January 14, 2020, 04:36:18 PM
You seem extremely worried. Oh, and the Americans say "we don't want regime change in Iran" 😊 DOUBLE STANDARDS. Don't worry, I'll start a separate thread from now on. Relax.

Yes we are all extremely worried that you are spamming links to an article available online and any one can read, from a website that, had it criticized Iran, you would not accept.  DOUBLE STANDARDS:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jan/13/journalists-quit-iranian-state-broadcaster-over-crash-cover-up

Here is an article from today, what do you think about its contents?  Or are you going to claim this is western propaganda?  LOL
Title: Re: Leaked Archive of Iranian Spy Cables Highlight Soleimani's Crimes
Post by: Mythbuster1 on January 14, 2020, 05:47:31 PM
Yes we are all extremely worried that you are spamming links to an article available online and any one can read, from a website that, had it criticized Iran, you would not accept.  DOUBLE STANDARDS:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jan/13/journalists-quit-iranian-state-broadcaster-over-crash-cover-up

Here is an article from today, what do you think about its contents?  Or are you going to claim this is western propaganda?  LOL

NO far from it, he will claim you are anti shia/Iran and all your kind (me included) do is dig dirt on Iran but you wouldnt do it if it was a Sunni country.

He has nothing else bro he is firing on empty cylinders.
Title: Re: Leaked Archive of Iranian Spy Cables Highlight Soleimani's Crimes
Post by: iceman on January 14, 2020, 09:16:06 PM
Yes we are all extremely worried that you are spamming links to an article available online and any one can read, from a website that, had it criticized Iran, you would not accept.  DOUBLE STANDARDS:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jan/13/journalists-quit-iranian-state-broadcaster-over-crash-cover-up

Here is an article from today, what do you think about its contents?  Or are you going to claim this is western propaganda?  LOL

"Yes we are all extremely worried that you are spamming links to an article available online and any one can read, from a website"

If that's the case "anyone can read from a website" Then why do you and others put links forward from website? Can't anyone read them without you posting them? You're showing and focusing on one side of the coin. I'm just showing the other side.

"had it criticized Iran, you would not accept.  DOUBLE STANDARDS"

If this was a Sunni governed country YOU WOULD DEFINITELY NOT BOTHER? Double standards as well.

"https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jan/13/journalists-quit-iranian-state-broadcaster-over-crash-cover-up"

There wasn't and neither there is any cover up. People were throwing accusations around based on assumptions before the dust has even settled. You wait till an investigation takes place and accept the result when it is completed. And that is what Iran did and asked for. And that is to stop throwing accusations around based on assumptions and let the experts complete the investigation.

"Here is an article from today, what do you think about its contents?  Or are you going to claim this is western propaganda?  LOL"

😊 Propaganda is common just as you lot are doing. I'll look into it and will let you know. Wouldn't be surprised if it is propaganda. It usually and most likely is when it comes to Shiaism, Shias and Iran 😊
Title: Re: Leaked Archive of Iranian Spy Cables Highlight Soleimani's Crimes
Post by: Khaled on January 14, 2020, 09:34:19 PM
"Yes we are all extremely worried that you are spamming links to an article available online and any one can read, from a website"

If that's the case "anyone can read from a website" Then why do you and others put links forward from website? Can't anyone read them without you posting them? You're showing and focusing on one side of the coin. I'm just showing the other side.

1) This is a website criticizing Shi'as, therefore, its focus will be on criticizing Shi'as.
2) I put those links to show, that you will post links from a website like the Guardian when it fits your agenda, but when presented when links criticizing Iran from the same website you just relied on you will ignore it and act like its all propaganda.

Which you, of course, did.  I am not very smart at all, you are just very.... sigh

"had it criticized Iran, you would not accept.  DOUBLE STANDARDS"

Quote
If this was a Sunni governed country YOU WOULD DEFINITELY NOT BOTHER? Double standards as well.

Here are some articles of horrible things the Saudi government is doing:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/video/2019/dec/24/un-special-rapporteur-condemns-jamal-khashoggi-verdict-as-whitewash-video

Look, I was going to go through all the articles and post links, but you are insincere, so I'm just going to do you one better:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/saudiarabia

I agree with all the criticisms found on that site unless they explicitly go against Islam.  Everything there criticizing Saudi is true, and in fact, is probably toned down.

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There wasn't and neither there is any cover up. People were throwing accusations around based on assumptions before the dust has even settled. You wait till an investigation takes place and accept the result when it is completed. And that is what Iran did and asked for. And that is to stop throwing accusations around based on assumptions and let the experts complete the investigation.

"Here is an article from today, what do you think about its contents?  Or are you going to claim this is western propaganda?  LOL"

😊 Propaganda is common just as you lot are doing. I'll look into it and will let you know. Wouldn't be surprised if it is propaganda. It usually and most likely is when it comes to Shiaism, Shias and Iran 😊

I hope you rethink these things you are writing, because they can't possibly any further from the truth.  Saudi Arabia and the UAE are more significantly more evil than Iran.  How can you possibly accuse me of bias now??
Title: Re: Leaked Archive of Iranian Spy Cables Highlight Soleimani's Crimes
Post by: muslim720 on January 14, 2020, 09:39:50 PM
Condemn Soleimani on what

I think the Iranians, by painting an image of Soleimani in the arms of Imam Hussain (ra), are sending out a subtle message to their blind followers which is that questioning Soleimani is like questioning the "infallible" Imam (ra) himself.

By the way, in an even funnier move, Shia Kashmiris in India have vowed to avenge Soleimani's assassination, lol.  They could not save Kashmir from being swallowed by India but they will confront US for Soleimani's killing. 

Can't make this stuff up!

Title: Re: Leaked Archive of Iranian Spy Cables Highlight Soleimani's Crimes
Post by: iceman on January 15, 2020, 12:02:04 AM
I think the Iranians, by painting an image of Soleimani in the arms of Imam Hussain (ra), are sending out a subtle message to their blind followers which is that questioning Soleimani is like questioning the "infallible" Imam (ra) himself.

By the way, in an even funnier move, Shia Kashmiris in India have vowed to avenge Soleimani's assassination, lol.  They could not save Kashmir from being swallowed by India but they will confront US for Soleimani's killing. 

Can't make this stuff up!



The fact of the matter is that neither was Soleimani known, spoken, labelled or advertised as a terrorist either by the US or you. Nothing on your site has ever been mentioned about Soleimani and what ever atrocities he committed. If there was than please do show me. After all Soleimani was a Shia and you would never have missed the opportunity of mentioning him and his atrocities. No one knew or heard of him till his assassination. Please provide any sort of evidence of him being a terrorist by him accepting responsibility for anything done or carried out just like the Taliban, Al Qaidah, ISIS, Osama bin Laden or Abu Bakr Al Bahgdadi did. Judt cut the nonsense. Start talking and providing.
Title: Re: Leaked Archive of Iranian Spy Cables Highlight Soleimani's Crimes
Post by: muslim720 on January 15, 2020, 01:31:12 AM
The fact of the matter is that neither was Soleimani known, spoken, labelled or advertised as a terrorist either by the US or you. Nothing on your site has ever been mentioned about Soleimani and what ever atrocities he committed.

I will show you from the same source, The Intercept, that Soleimani was a terrorist AND that his atrocities were well known before his assassination.

"Abdul-Mahdi had wavered and nearly quit a month earlier, but in late October, Iranian Major General Qassem Suleimani, the powerful head of the elite Quds Force, an arm of Iran’s Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps that operates with impunity throughout Iraq, intervened to bolster Abdul-Mahdi and keep him in power."

source: https://theintercept.com/2019/12/10/sanctions-iran-iraq-protests/

Two things worth noting are:

1.  The article was published on December 10, 2019, weeks before he was assassinated so he was a well-known figure even before he was assassinated.

2.  He was described as the "head of the elite Quds Force" which, according to the Department of Defense is "a U.S.-designated Foreign Terrorist Organization" (source: https://www.defense.gov/Newsroom/Releases/Release/Article/2049534/statement-by-the-department-of-defense/)

In the words of brother Mohammed Hijab, you're finished!
Title: Re: Leaked Archive of Iranian Spy Cables Highlight Soleimani's Crimes
Post by: iceman on January 15, 2020, 01:59:38 AM
I will show you from the same source, The Intercept, that Soleimani was a terrorist AND that his atrocities were well known before his assassination.

"Abdul-Mahdi had wavered and nearly quit a month earlier, but in late October, Iranian Major General Qassem Suleimani, the powerful head of the elite Quds Force, an arm of Iran’s Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps that operates with impunity throughout Iraq, intervened to bolster Abdul-Mahdi and keep him in power."

source: https://theintercept.com/2019/12/10/sanctions-iran-iraq-protests/

Two things worth noting are:

1.  The article was published on December 10, 2019, weeks before he was assassinated so he was a well-known figure even before he was assassinated.

2.  He was described as the "head of the elite Quds Force" which, according to the Department of Defense is "a U.S.-designated Foreign Terrorist Organization" (source: https://www.defense.gov/Newsroom/Releases/Release/Article/2049534/statement-by-the-department-of-defense/)

In the words of brother Mohammed Hijab, you're finished!

One step at a time. Let me finish with your leaked cables first.

"In the words of brother Mohammed Hijab, you're finished"

Who is he. If he's got something to say then let him speak. Nothing to be hesitant or afraid of. Why wasn't Soleimani mentioned about who and what he was by either the United States or the United Nations. No one knows or has ever heard of him. Talk to any random person. They know and knew who Osama bin Laden, Abu Bakr Al Bahgdadi or Aiman Al Zawahiri etc were. Why not Soleimani. Very simple. Don't make it difficult and complicated for yourself. Why didn't the US mention or speak about him. Why didn't they put the information they had on what Soleimani was planning to the Congress. Why didn't they demand from the Iranian government to handover hin over for questioning or face more sanctions. That's the way to go boy. It's obvious your having severe problems in addressing this. Since you've mentioned him (Hijab) get some help from him if he's up to it and out of the corner.

""In the words of brother Mohammed Hijab, you're finished"

😅 WORDS 😅 Just words hey 😊 Finished?  I haven't even started yet.
Title: Re: Leaked Archive of Iranian Spy Cables Highlight Soleimani's Crimes
Post by: muslim720 on January 15, 2020, 02:16:38 AM
Why wasn't Soleimani mentioned about who and what he was by either the United States or the United Nations.

He is clearly labeled as the head of the "elite Quds Force" which has been designated a terrorist organization by Department of Defense.  The head of a terrorist organization cannot be a saint unless we go by your logic.


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They know and knew who Osama bin Laden, Abu Bakr Al Bahgdadi or Aiman Al Zawahiri etc were. Why not Soleimani.

Once again, he was KNOWN to be the head of the "elite Quds Force".  If he was not known as an important player, the US would not have taken him out.


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Why didn't the US mention or speak about him.

So, according to your logic, notoriety depends on how frequently the US talks about anyone.


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Why didn't they put the information they had on what Soleimani was planning to the Congress.

The US has designated the group he spearheaded as a "terrorist organization".  What extra information should they have put out?


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Why didn't they demand from the Iranian government to handover hin over for questioning or face more sanctions.  That's the way to go boy.

Iran does not have extradition laws with the US so how can they turn over their own citizen, the leader of their Quds Force, to the US?

Quds Force, by the way, is an arm of the IRGC which is also designated as a "terrorist organization" for which it is under sanctions.  Think top-down effect!


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I haven't even started yet.

You are absolutely right.  When you are not restricted to making factual and valid arguments, you can make endless claims.
Title: Re: Leaked Archive of Iranian Spy Cables Highlight Soleimani's Crimes
Post by: iceman on January 15, 2020, 02:28:19 AM
He is clearly labeled as the head of the "elite Quds Force" which has been designated a terrorist organization by Department of Defense.  The head of a terrorist organization cannot be a saint unless we go by your logic.


Once again, he was KNOWN to be the head of the "elite Quds Force".  If he was not known as an important player, the US would not have taken him out.


So, according to your logic, notoriety depends on how frequently the US talks about anyone.


The US has designated the group he spearheaded as a "terrorist organization".  What extra information should they have put out?


Iran does not have extradition laws with the US so how can they turn over their own citizen, the leader of their Quds Force, to the US?

Quds Force, by the way, is an arm of the IRGC which is also designated as a "terrorist organization" for which it is under sanctions.  Think top-down effect!


You are absolutely right.  When you are not restricted by the validity of arguments, you can make endless claims.

Is that all you've got. Is that all you can come up with. And it took you so long that you couldn't find anything then 'lets see if this works' 😊 He was a top Army General. OK he was head of the elite Quds Force. I'll answer that. You claim,

"He is clearly labeled as the head of the "elite Quds Force" which has been designated a terrorist organization by Department of Defense"

Look into the below link.

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.ozy.com/true-and-stories/not-so-long-ago-soleimani-and-the-u-s-worked-together-to-beat-isis/262477/&ved=2ahUKEwiPko_1n4TnAhWRQhUIHRJrAVEQFjAAegQIBRAB&usg=AOvVaw0ZyPppSqxcf9kGHxWr_qpF

Elite Quds Force declared l a terrorist organisation by America and they ran a joint operation with them, the Americans worked with this terrorist organisation to fight ISIS? 😊 Do ponder over it.


"So, according to your logic, notoriety depends on how frequently the US talks about anyone"

Nope. I've already given you prime examples of Abu Al Bahgdadi, Aiman Al Zawahiri and Osama bin Laden.

"The US has designated the group he spearheaded as a "terrorist organization".  What extra information should they have put out?"

Why wasn't it put through Congress. They weren't even told about it. What was there to hide or so secretive.

"Iran does not have extradition laws with the US so how can they turn over their own citizen, the leader of their Quds Force, to the US"

Extradition laws. OK. What extradition laws did the US have with the Afghan government when they expected Bin Laden to be extradited? 😊
Title: Re: Leaked Archive of Iranian Spy Cables Highlight Soleimani's Crimes
Post by: muslim720 on January 15, 2020, 02:55:58 AM
Is that all you've got. Is that all you can come up with. And it took you so long that you couldn't find anything then 'lets see if this works' 😊

Yes, honestly that is all I had and that is all I could come up with.  Still awaiting for you to deep dive into your ocean of knowledge to present us a counter-evidence, on the same level as MOIS' leaked cables, to prove that Soleimani was not guilty of those crimes.


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Elite Quds Force declared l a terrorist organisation by America and they ran a joint operation with them, the Americans worked with this terrorist organisation to fight ISIS? 😊 Do ponder over it.

It is possible if we accept the Iranian narrative which said that the US was furious with, and killed, Soleimani because he stopped ISIS in the Middle East thereby hinting at a link between US and ISIS.  So if the US, as per Iranian assertions, can be aligned with ISIS (a terrorist organization), it is possible for them to also align with Quds Force, another terrorist organization.

By the way, I tip my hat for your choice of source, OZY which itself claims to be a "is a premium media and entertainment company that introduces the global Change Generation to cutting-edge storytelling".


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Why wasn't it put through Congress. They weren't even told about it. What was there to hide or so secretive.

What was not put through Congress?  The IRGC and its arm, Quds Force, are terrorist organizations and they are clearly labeled as such on the website of Department of Defense.


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Extradition laws. OK. What extradition laws did the US have with the Afghan government when they expected Bin Laden to be extradited? 😊

Are you now supporting the Taliban?  Other than that, I don't see why you would bring up an irrelevant point.  Oh maybe because you wish to derail the discussion.

So, any evidence on the same level as the leaked cables of MOIS which shows that Soleimani was innocent?
Title: Re: Leaked Archive of Iranian Spy Cables Highlight Soleimani's Crimes
Post by: iceman on January 15, 2020, 04:53:25 AM
Yes, honestly that is all I had and that is all I could come up with.  Still awaiting for you to deep dive into your ocean of knowledge to present us a counter-evidence, on the same level as MOIS' leaked cables, to prove that Soleimani was not guilty of those crimes.


It is possible if we accept the Iranian narrative which said that the US was furious with, and killed, Soleimani because he stopped ISIS in the Middle East thereby hinting at a link between US and ISIS.  So if the US, as per Iranian assertions, can be aligned with ISIS (a terrorist organization), it is possible for them to also align with Quds Force, another terrorist organization.

By the way, I tip my hat for your choice of source, OZY which itself claims to be a "is a premium media and entertainment company that introduces the global Change Generation to cutting-edge storytelling".


What was not put through Congress?  The IRGC and its arm, Quds Force, are terrorist organizations and they are clearly labeled as such on the website of Department of Defense.


Are you now supporting the Taliban?  Other than that, I don't see why you would bring up an irrelevant point.  Oh maybe because you wish to derail the discussion.

So, any evidence on the same level as the leaked cables of MOIS which shows that Soleimani was innocent?

"Yes, honestly that is all I had and that is all I could come up with.  Still awaiting for you to deep dive into your ocean of knowledge to present us a counter-evidence, on the same level as MOIS' leaked cables, to prove that Soleimani was not guilty of those crimes"

You are innocent until proven guilty. And if there is enough evidence that you seem guilty then there is a procedure based on international law which you follow and abide by. You don't go killing people at random and then mention and discuss their crime.

"It is possible if we accept the Iranian narrative which said that the US was furious with, and killed, Soleimani because he stopped ISIS in the Middle East thereby hinting at a link between US and ISIS.  So if the US, as per Iranian assertions can be aligned with ISIS (a terrorist organization), it is possible for them to also align with Quds Force, another terrorist organization"

So basically there is no law, principles and rules to go by. You just make them up as you go along. Well this also gives the Iranians a freehand. What's fine and suitable for others is fine and suitable for Iran. What's ok for you is ok for me.

"By the way, I tip my hat for your choice of source, OZY which itself claims to be a "is a premium media and entertainment company that introduces the global Change Generation to cutting-edge storytelling".

It's not about choice of source but about facts. You're hell-bent in proving your desire. I'm hell-bent in putting facts forward.

"What was not put through Congress?  The IRGC and its arm, Quds Force, are terrorist organizations and they are clearly labeled as such on the website of Department of Defense"

We're going in circles here. The police don't go and kill someone. Then start looking for evidence and gather it. They monitor them and then if they have sufficient evidence they arrest them. They gather the evidence and forward it to the courts. There's such thing as international law. But not for the Americans. And you.  😊
Title: Re: Leaked Archive of Iranian Spy Cables Highlight Soleimani's Crimes
Post by: iceman on January 15, 2020, 05:31:00 AM
Yes, honestly that is all I had and that is all I could come up with.  Still awaiting for you to deep dive into your ocean of knowledge to present us a counter-evidence, on the same level as MOIS' leaked cables, to prove that Soleimani was not guilty of those crimes.


It is possible if we accept the Iranian narrative which said that the US was furious with, and killed, Soleimani because he stopped ISIS in the Middle East thereby hinting at a link between US and ISIS.  So if the US, as per Iranian assertions, can be aligned with ISIS (a terrorist organization), it is possible for them to also align with Quds Force, another terrorist organization.

By the way, I tip my hat for your choice of source, OZY which itself claims to be a "is a premium media and entertainment company that introduces the global Change Generation to cutting-edge storytelling".


What was not put through Congress?  The IRGC and its arm, Quds Force, are terrorist organizations and they are clearly labeled as such on the website of Department of Defense.


Are you now supporting the Taliban?  Other than that, I don't see why you would bring up an irrelevant point.  Oh maybe because you wish to derail the discussion.

So, any evidence on the same level as the leaked cables of MOIS which shows that Soleimani was innocent?

"Are you now supporting the Taliban?  Other than that, I don't see why you would bring up an irrelevant point.  Oh maybe because you wish to derail the discussion"

Why is this an irrelevant point. Osama bin Laden was branded a terrorist. Al Qaidah took responsibility for the twin tower attacks on 9/11/01, did they not. Why did the Americans ask the Afghan government to handover him over. That is the Americans asked for his extradition. What happened here.

Over here they kill Soleimani all of a sudden and out of the blue. Then brand him a terrorist and accuse him of this that and the other. Over there the twin tower attacks happen, Alqaida takes responsibility and the Americans ask the Afghan government to handover him over for questioning and to face justice. To be put on trial. Don't know about you but I'm loving this. Care to explain this.
Title: Re: Leaked Archive of Iranian Spy Cables Highlight Soleimani's Crimes
Post by: muslim720 on January 15, 2020, 08:53:56 AM
You are innocent until proven guilty. And if there is enough evidence that you seem guilty then there is a procedure based on international law which you follow and abide by.  You don't go killing people at random and then mention and discuss their crime.

Please do not strawman my argument.  I am not saying that Soleimani's crimes justified his assassination; in fact, I believe his assassination was in violation of international law.

All I am saying is this one thing and I beseech you to pay attention to it: Iran's primary intelligence agency MOIS, not the international community, found out that Soleimani was committing crimes against Sunnis in Iraq and it (MOIS) was concerned with how that would tarnish Iran's image.  Since it was the MOIS that discovered his crimes, they were kept as a secret until the leak occurred.

The man was found guilty by his own government's intelligence agency and all I am asking you is this: do you believe Soleimani was guilty of killing Sunnis in Iraq OR do you doubt the findings and pronouncement of an agency as high-ranked as MOIS?  And if it is the latter, what is your counter evidence?


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It's not about choice of source but about facts.

Understood!  Thank you for clarifying that; only goes on to show how changing goal posts is one of the problems we have to deal with when discussing with you.


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You're hell-bent in proving your desire. I'm hell-bent in putting facts forward.

How is it my "desire"?  Does Iran's MOIS work based on my desire?  And do you seriously think that OZY is a more reputable source of facts than Iran's MOIS when it comes to Iranian affairs?


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We're going in circles here. The police don't go and kill someone. Then start looking for evidence and gather it. They monitor them and then if they have sufficient evidence they arrest them. They gather the evidence and forward it to the courts. There's such thing as international law. But not for the Americans. And you.  😊

We are going in circles because you have committed a strawman fallacy.  I am not saying that Soleimani should have been punished, or assassinated, based on the leaked spy cables.  I believe his assassination was in contradiction of international law.

What I am saying is that the man was guilty of killing Sunnis in Iraq, admitted by none other than Iran's primary intelligence agency (MOIS).  Do you agree or not?  And if you think he was not guilty, can you provide us your evidence?  Hopefully it is from an agency that can rival the MOIS in its standing in Iranian politics.
Title: Re: Leaked Archive of Iranian Spy Cables Highlight Soleimani's Crimes
Post by: muslim720 on January 15, 2020, 09:25:28 AM
The Story Behind the Iran Cables

The source said they wanted to “let the world know what Iran is doing in my country Iraq.”  They sent The Intercept 700 pages of secret intelligence reports from Iran’s Ministry of Intelligence and Security, or MOIS, but never revealed their own identity.  This kind of leak is unprecedented for Iran, a country with a highly secretive government and spy agencies that guard their confidential information zealously.

In the months after we received the intelligence reports, which are written in a highly bureaucratic and opaque style, we had them translated from Persian into English and then had the translations cross-checked.  Once we determined the significance of the documents — the cables detail MOIS operations in Iraq from late 2013 through early 2015 and include reports from Iranian assets at the highest levels of the Iraqi government — we approached the New York Times and proposed a reporting partnership.  The article we jointly published with the Times is the product of months of collaboration, in which Intercept and Times reporters verified the authenticity of the documents and conducted further reporting to place them in context.

Because the raw intelligence reports contain large amounts of sensitive personal information, we are publishing only brief excerpts with the articles.  As we continue to evaluate the cables for newsworthy material, we will publish new stories along with relevant excerpts.

In addition to providing insight into Iran’s espionage operations and its strategies for managing Iraqi and Kurdish politics, the documents lay out what amounts to a secret history of the war against the Islamic State and reveal the surprising ways in which Iranian and U.S. interests often aligned in that conflict.  The tale the documents tell is a crucial chapter of a much bigger story: how the devastation that followed the 2003 U.S. invasion of Iraq gave Iran a golden opportunity to build a political and social order there that was more favorable to their interests.

Indeed, these intelligence reports show Iran grappling with many of the same challenges that bedeviled the United States as it struggled to maintain control over a restive Iraq during the U.S. military occupation.  While the U.S. continued to exert influence after its formal withdrawal of troops in 2011, it was Iran, with its vast network of spies and assets, that expertly manipulated Iraqi politics, shaping the power structures and cultivating the leaders who remain in place to this day.  In keeping with this shift, today’s movement of Iraqis seeking to wrest control of their own government and expel outside influence has a new primary focus: Iran.

Source: https://theintercept.com/2019/11/18/iran-cables/