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Many questions!

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Noor-us-Sunnah

Re: Many questions!
« Reply #20 on: December 01, 2020, 09:36:37 PM »
Is there a link to an article or something that has a list of authentic narrations by other praising Aaisha, preferably in English? Thanks.

Check these out:

1 A.
حَدَّثَنَا مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ بَشَّارٍ حَدَّثَنَا عَبْدُ الرَّحْمَنِ بْنُ مَهْدِيٍّ حَدَّثَنَا أَبُو بَكْرِ بْنُ عَيَّاشٍ عَنْ أَبِي حُصَيْنٍ عَنْ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ بْنِ زِيَادٍ الْأَسَدِيِّ قَال سَمِعْتُ عَمَّارَ بْنَ يَاسِرٍ يَقُولُ هِيَ زَوْجَتُهُ فِي الدُّنْيَا وَالْآخِرَةِ يَعْنِي عَائِشَةَ رَضِيَ اللَّهُ عَنْهَا
Al-Tirmidhi narrates in Kitab al-Manaaqib in “Chapter: The Virtues of Aa’isah (may Allaah be pleased with her)” from Abdullah bin Ziyaad al-Asadee who said: I heard Ammaar bin Yaasir saying, “She is his wife in this life and the hereafter – meaning Aa’ishah (radiallaahu anha).” This hadeeth is Saheeh (Saheeh Sunan al-Tirmidhi, no. 3889).

B. From Arib Ibn Hamid who said: ‘On the day of the camel, Ammar [Ibn Yassir] saw a congregation, so he asked: ‘What is this?’So it was said to him: ‘A man who curses Aaishah and reviles her.’ So he -’Ammar’ went to him and said: ‘Shut up ! You are rebuked and you are refuted ! Do you revile the Habibah (the beloved one) of the Prophet (pbuh) ? Indeed she is his wife in Paradise.’(No. 1647, Fadha’il Al-Sahabah by Imam Ahmad, authenticated by Shaykh Al-Muhaddith Wasiyullah Al-’Abbas Al-Hindi )

2. Narrated Anas(R) : “It was said: ‘O Messenger of Allah! Who is the most beloved of the people to you?’ He said: ”Aishah.‘ It was said: ‘From the men?’ He said: ‘Her father.’ [Sunan al-Tirmidhi, #3890 : Sahih].

3. Narrated Abu `Uthman: Allah’s Messenger (SAWS) sent Amr bin Al As as the commander of the troops of Dhat-us-Salasil. Amr bin Al- As said, “(On my return) I came to the Prophet (SAWS) and said, ‘Which people do you love most?’ He replied, `Aisha.‘ I said, ‘From amongst the men?’ He replied, ‘Her father (Abu Bakr)’. I said, ‘Whom (do you love) next?’ He replied, “`Umar.’ Then he counted the names of many men, and I became silent for fear that he might regard me as the last of them.”. [Sahih al-Bukhari #4358] Also [Sahih al-Bukhari #3662].

4. Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani narrated that when Umm Salamah heard that Aisha died, she said: “May Allah forgive her. By Allah in whose hand is my soul, after her father, she was most beloved (person) for prophet (sallalahu alaihi wa ala alihi wa sallam)” (Matalibul aliyah” 5/#4142; “Taqrib al-bughya bi tartib ahadeth al-Hilliyah” 3/126/#3379.)  Busiri said: “Taylasi narrated this hadith with authentic chain”( Footnote at the page 75, volume 5 of “Matalibul aliyah”.).

5. It was narrated from Umm Salamah that the wives of the Prophet asked her to speak to the Prophet and tell him, that the people were trying to bring their gifts to him when it was ‘Aishah’s day, and to say to him: “We love good things as much as ‘Aishah does.” So she spoke to him, but he did not reply her. When her turn came again, she spoke to him again, but he did not reply her. They said to her: “How did he respond?” She said: “He did not answer me.” They said: “Do not leave him alone until he answers you or you comprehend what he says.” When her turn came again, she spoke to him and he said: ‘Do not bother me about ‘Aishah, for the Revelation has never come to me under the blanket of any of you apart from the blanket of ‘Aishah.'”(Sunan an-Nasa’i 3950 ; Grading: Sahih)

6. Ahmed narrated in the Chapter of “Virtues” that Thikran, the slave of Aysha, “asked for Aysha’s permission to let Ibn Abbas enter at the time of her death. Abdullah bin Abdulrahman, the son of her brother was present also. Thikran said, “Here is Ibn Abbas asking for your permission to enter. He is the best of your sons.” She said, “Let me off from Ibn Abbas and his justification and purification.” Abdullah bin Abdulrahman told her, “He is a reader of the Book of Allah, and is knowledgeable in the religion of Allah. Let him in to give a salam to you, and to say goodbye.” Aysha answered, “Let him in if you want to.” Abdullah said, “I will give him the permission.” So Ibn Abbas came in, made salam, and had a seat. He said, “O’ Mother of Beleivers, be happy. By Allah, there is nothing between the removal of pain and lie and the meeting of the beloved ones, Muhammad and his Companions except that your soul leaves your body.” Aysha said, “What else?” Ibn Abbas answered, “You were the most beloved wife to the messenger of Allah peace be upon him. He loved none but purity. Allah Almighty revealed your innocence from the seven heavens. There is no mosque on earth that does not recite the verses that proves your innocence day and night. One day your necklace was dropped, so the prophet peace be upon him got caught with the people in the house. And when they wanted to pray, they did not have water. So Allah revealed the verse of Tayamum. It was a permission for people came through you. By Allah, you are holy. She said, “Leave me O’ Ibn Abbas from this. By Allah, I wish I was forgotten.” (Virtues of the Companions, by Ahmed, vol.2, #1639, with a strong attribution)

7. عن عاصم بن كليب عن أبيه قال انتهينا إلى علي رضي الله عنه فذكر عائشة فقال خليلة رسول الله هذا حديث حسن ومصعب فصالح لا بأس به وهذا يقوله أمير المؤمنين في حق عائشة مع ما وقع بينهما فرضي الله
From ‘Asim Ibn Kulayb, from his father who said:”We went to ‘Ali and ‘Aaishah was mentioned. So he [‘Ali] said:”The Khaleelah (the most beloved female) of the Messenger of Allah “. [Siyar alam al-Nubala, vol 2, page 177, Hadith Hassan]

8. Imam Jafar narrated from his father[Imam Baqir] : “Allah’s Apostle in his fatal illness, asked his wives, ‘Where will I be tomorrow? They said with fulan[wife] . So He(saw) Where will I be day after tomorrow?”.  They replied with fulan[wife]. Thus the wives of Prophet(saw) understood, He(saw) is seeking Ayesha(as)’s turn. So they said: O Messenger of Allah! We have left our days for Ayesha(as). [Musannaf ibn Abi Shayba]

9. Narrated Abu Musa Al-Ash’ari: Allah’s Apostle said,  “Many amongst men attained perfection but amongst women none attained the perfection except Mary, the daughter of Imran and Asiya, the wife of Pharaoh. And the superiority of ‘Aisha to other women is like the superiority of Tharid (i.e. an Arabic dish) to other meals.” (Sahih Bukhari – Volume 5, Book 57, Number 113)

10. Al-Tirmidhi narrates in Kitab al-Manaaqib in “Chapter: The Virtues of Aa’isah (may Allaah be pleased with her)” from Anas bin Malik who said that the Messenger of Allaah (sallallaahu alayhi wasallam) said, “The excellence of Aa’ishah over all women is like the excellence of al-Thareed (pieces of bread in vegetable or meat broth) over all other foods.” This hadeeth is Saheeh (Saheeh Sunan al-Tirmidhi, no. 3888).

11. Al-Tirmidhi narrates in Kitab al-Manaaqib in “Chapter: The Virtues of Aa’isah (may Allaah be pleased with her)” from Abu Moosaa who said, “Never did any hadeeth become difficult for us, the companions of Allaah’s Messenger, and we asked Aa’ishah except that we found she had knowledge regarding it.” Saheeh (Saheeh Sunan al-Tirmidhi, no. 3883).

12. Sahi bukhari 6.277: Narrated Ibn Abu Mulaika: Ibn `Abbas asked permission to visit Aisha before her death, and at that time she was in a state of agony. She then said. “I am afraid that he will praise me too much.” And then it was said to her, “He is the cousin of Allah’s Apostle and one of the prominent Muslims.” Then she said, “Allow him to enter.” (When he entered) he said, “How are you?” She replied, “I am Alright if I fear (Allah).” Ibn`Abbas said, “Allah willing, you are Alright as you are the wife of Allah’s Apostle and he did not marry any virgin except you and proof of your innocence was revealed from the Heaven.” Later on Ibn Az−Zubair entered after him and `Aisha said to him, “Ibn `Abbas came to me and praised me greatly, but I wish that I was a thing forgotten and out of sight.”

sum soul

Re: Many questions!
« Reply #21 on: December 01, 2020, 11:54:15 PM »
Thanks for sharing the narrations. From a sunni perspective, what is it about Aaisha that is understood to make her the most beloved wife of the Prophet?

Rationalist

Re: Many questions!
« Reply #22 on: December 02, 2020, 04:12:24 AM »
Sum Soul did you know the 12er Shia believe the Prophet's (saws) son had to die because of Imamate. Otherwise they would be issues on Imamate.

Ibn Babawayh has narrated through authentic chains of narrators that people asked Imam Ja’far Sadiq (a.s.) why any male issue of the Prophet did not survive? The Imam said: “Since the Almighty Allah had made him as a prophet and created Imam Ali (a.s.) for his successorship, if any male issue of the Prophet had survived, in the view of the people he would have been more deserving than Ali (a.s.) to be the successor of the Prophet. Therefore the successorship of Amirul Momineen (a.s.) would not have been proved.

Ibn Shahr Ashob has narrated from Ibn Abbas that one day the Messenger of Allah (S) had placed his son, Ibrahim on his left knee and Imam Husain (a.s.) on his right. He kissed each of them in turn. In the meantime, revelation descended upon him. When the condition returned to normal, he said: “Jibraeel had just came from the Almighty Allah and brought the message and said: “The Almighty Allah sends His greetings and says that He will not allow you to keep both of them with you and you must sacrifice one of them on the other.”

Then the Holy Prophet (S) looked at Ibrahim and then at Imam Husain (a.s.) and then he wept and said: “Ibrahim is my son, if he dies, no will be aggrieved except me. But Fatima and Ali are the parents of Husain, who is my beloved daughter and my cousin respectively. If Husain passes away, my daughter Fatima and my cousin Ali, both will be shattered and I will also be devastated. So I chose only my sorrow than make all of them sad.

O Jibraeel, I give Ibrahim as a ransom for Husain and I approve his death. So Ibrahim died after three days. After that whenever the Holy Prophet (S) used to see Imam Husain (a.s.) he used to embrace him and kissing his lips say: “I am a ransom on you, O one on whom I sacrificed my son, Ibrahim.”

Noor-us-Sunnah

Re: Many questions!
« Reply #23 on: December 02, 2020, 01:05:20 PM »
Thanks for sharing the narrations. From a sunni perspective, what is it about Aaisha that is understood to make her the most beloved wife of the Prophet?

Allah and His messenger knew the best.

But I guess, Allah revealing verses of Quran, inorder to exonerate Ayesha(R) from the slanders, instead of just informing Prophet(S) that she was innocent, displayed her high status in the sight of Allah, which might have been one of the reason, for her being most beloved wife of Prophet(alive during that time).


Soccer

Re: Many questions!
« Reply #24 on: December 02, 2020, 01:54:52 PM »
Allah and His messenger knew the best.

But I guess, Allah revealing verses of Quran, inorder to exonerate Ayesha(R) from the slanders, instead of just informing Prophet(S) that she was innocent, displayed her high status in the sight of Allah, which might have been one of the reason, for her being most beloved wife of Prophet(alive during that time).

Aisha has a unique place in Quran, but it's not for any reason Shiite or Sunnis think. 

"Is it so bad, then, to be misunderstood? Pythagoras was misunderstood, and Socrates, and Jesus, and Luther, and Copernicus, and Galileo, and Newton, and every pure and wise spirit that ever took flesh. To be great is to be misunderstood.” ― Ralph Waldo Emerson, Self-Reliance

sum soul

Re: Many questions!
« Reply #25 on: December 02, 2020, 04:02:15 PM »
Allah and His messenger knew the best.

But I guess, Allah revealing verses of Quran, inorder to exonerate Ayesha(R) from the slanders, instead of just informing Prophet(S) that she was innocent, displayed her high status in the sight of Allah, which might have been one of the reason, for her being most beloved wife of Prophet(alive during that time).

Do you mean she was the most beloved during her time and not overall? I know this can come across as me having "shia bias", but I can't make sense of how Aaisha could have ever been the most beloved wife of the Prophet at any stage of his life. How is that possible for a wife who is so severely condemned by Allah in the Quran for her actions more beloved than any other wife (excluding Hafsa) who never did such things? From what I remember, the twelvershia article justifies it on the basis that she was younger than the others which made her jealous. Why would the Prophet marry someone based on their character and piety if they lack maturity? It doesn't make sense.

Noor-us-Sunnah

Re: Many questions!
« Reply #26 on: December 02, 2020, 07:01:21 PM »
Do you mean she was the most beloved during her time and not overall? I know this can come across as me having "shia bias", but I can't make sense of how Aaisha could have ever been the most beloved wife of the Prophet at any stage of his life. How is that possible for a wife who is so severely condemned by Allah in the Quran for her actions more beloved than any other wife (excluding Hafsa) who never did such things? From what I remember, the twelvershia article justifies it on the basis that she was younger than the others which made her jealous. Why would the Prophet marry someone based on their character and piety if they lack maturity? It doesn't make sense.
Yes she was most beloved wife during her time, because Khadijah(R) was more beloved to Prophet(S) than her, which makes her the second most beloved wife in overall manner.

Condemnation is of two types, temporary and permament. The sign of a sincere believer is that He/She will commit an action which is worthy of condemnation, but would quickly repent before Allah, hence that condemnation would be temporary. While the opposite is done by the one who inccurs permanent condemnation.

Allah loves those people who fall in the catgeory of temporarily condemned, while he hates those who fall in the category of permanently condemned who never repent for their action. Since, at times certain prophets(as) too committed a condemnable act but repented before Allah and Ayesha(r) belongs to this same catgeory of temporary condemnation, as she repented and chose Allah and His prophet(S) when choice was offered by Prophet(S) to all his wives.

Hence you shouldn't be astonished with Ayesha(R) being the most beloved with of Prophet(S), even if she was condemned for certain actions in Quran. Atleast, this wasn't an issue for Prophet(S) that's why Prophet(S) loved Ayesha(R) a lot, he wished to be nursed in the house of Ayesha(r) during his final illness and he is even buried in her house.

« Last Edit: December 02, 2020, 07:08:01 PM by Noor-us-Sunnah »

Soccer

Re: Many questions!
« Reply #27 on: December 03, 2020, 09:37:50 PM »
This is not just regarding the Sunni-Shia debate and issues, but with regards to anything in religion, whether at the Atheist vs Theist level or much deeper down the road, people engaged in circumstantial evidence and immerse themselves what can be doubted, and are not seeking mental clarity in sure proofs and insights, they are cursed in this world and the next, and will never attain the truth of God's guidance and way of clarifying to humans the path and way for them.

Whether Trinity vs Monotheism, or Judaism vs Islam, any stage, as soon as people are not seeking to build on certainty and are not seeking insights and proofs,  they will not be guided except to their desires and conjecture, and will be overtaken by Satan.

As soon people build anything per their desires and ascribe God what they don't know, whether it be others god or any lie regarding him, they are of the most oppressive state to themselves and all humans and towards God's right upon them, and they will be in hell forever if they don't change and repent.

Build on certainty and clear decisive proofs.  The Clear Quran is not like the unclear Quran, the latter is due to dark magic and hard hearts and has little of the truth, while the Clear Quran is based on knowledge and is blessed with reflections the way God desired and is from God and is a guidance.

Build on what is clear, leave every unclear thing, don't talk about, don't think about, don't argue about what you have no knowledge of,  but just build on knowledge and clear signs and reflect whether short or long downloads of insights, build on clarity.

Those who engage in unclear matters at any stage regarding religion, it's due to love of Dunya which God just called "dunya" for being soft on us, but really is worship of Satan in the interior and indeed whoever believes in the dark magic that deceives, they are overcome due to love of Satan on some what an equal level with their love for God.

They don't realize it, but their attachment to idols in form of misguiding leader in the outward world, the interior of all that,  is love of evil as much as goodness of God which cannot and will never be forgiven.

We can beat all tyrants, all of them, bring God's rule on the whole world, the True King is God, we can brings humans to him and his guidance, all we have to is disengage in seeking and talking about what is unclear when there exists among us clear proofs and insights, but to do that, we have to let go of our love of Dunya, but seems everyone loves it too much to do this and let Quran provide us with insights.


« Last Edit: December 03, 2020, 09:43:09 PM by Soccer »
"Is it so bad, then, to be misunderstood? Pythagoras was misunderstood, and Socrates, and Jesus, and Luther, and Copernicus, and Galileo, and Newton, and every pure and wise spirit that ever took flesh. To be great is to be misunderstood.” ― Ralph Waldo Emerson, Self-Reliance

MuslimK

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Re: Many questions!
« Reply #28 on: December 03, 2020, 10:46:01 PM »

Which battle took place between the believers that's clearly mentioned in the Quran? I would argue that unless some sort of major misunderstanding takes place between believers that for some reason doesn't allow them to resolve the issue through some sort of a consultation, then I don't see how we can maintain that they're both genuinely pious believers, especially if it takes place during the times of the companions of the Prophet.

Allah ﷻ mentions in the Quran that IF a war breaks out between two factions of the BELIEVERS, and then guides us what do to in such a situation, see Quran 49:9. According to the Takfiri twelver sect both sides can't be believers.

در خلافت میل نیست ای بی‌خبر
میل کی آید ز بوبکر و عمر
میل اگر بودی در آن دو مقتدا
هر دو کردندی پسر را پیشوا

عطار نِیشابوری

www.Nahjul-Balagha.net | www.TwelverShia.net | www.ghadirkhumm.com

Rationalist

Re: Many questions!
« Reply #29 on: December 04, 2020, 02:28:55 PM »
Allah ﷻ mentions in the Quran that IF a war breaks out between two factions of the BELIEVERS, and then guides us what do to in such a situation, see Quran 49:9. According to the Takfiri twelver sect both sides can't be believers.



It goes deeper than that. Even the majority of Muslims who fought on Ali's side and lost their lives were not Momins according to 12er Shia because they did not believe he was divinely appointed.

Khaled

Re: Many questions!
« Reply #30 on: December 04, 2020, 04:58:20 PM »
What's interesting about this discussion, that I don't think I've ever seen mentioned, is that the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم said to Ammar رضي الله عنه: (( ويح عمار تقتله الفئة الباغية  )) "Who to Ammar!  He will be killed by the Baghiyah group."  Notice the word باغية that the Messenger صلى الله عليه وسلم uses.  Now compare it to what Allah سبحانه وتعالى says: "وَإِن طَائِفَتَانِ مِنَ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ اقْتَتَلُوا فَأَصْلِحُوا بَيْنَهُمَا ۖ فَإِن بَغَتْ إِحْدَاهُمَا".  Allah سبحانه وتعالى describes one of the believing groups as doing بغي against the other group.  Seems, والله أعلم, that the Messenger صلى الله عليه وسلم was referencing this Ayah when he said that to Ammar.
كلُّ سُلامى من الناس عليه صدقة كلَّ يوم تطلع فيه الشمس، تَعدلُ بين اثنين صدقة، وتعين الرَّجل في دابَّته فتحمله عليها أو ترفع له عليها متاعَه صدقة، والكلمةُ الطيِّبة صدقة، وبكلِّ خطوة تَمشيها إلى الصلاة صدقة، وتُميط الأذى عن الطريق صدقة

Khaled

Re: Many questions!
« Reply #31 on: December 04, 2020, 05:36:34 PM »
Assalaamu alaikum,
وعليكم السلام ورحمة الله وبركاته
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I hope you're all well inshaAllah. I have several questions that I'd like to ask out of curiosity. I'm not here to prove my own views, rather I'm looking for the truth. I know there are different sections of the forum, however, I thought it would be easier to post everything here if the moderators allow it.
Are you a 12er Shi’a?

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My questions
تفضل
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1) What counts as a sunni? I've always known during the past 10 years that not all sunnis have the same beliefs, i.e. difference of opinion regarding celebrating the Prophet's birthday, saying Ya Muhammad etc, but in more recent years, I've come to know about various different groups through shia texts, such as the atharis, ash'aris and mu'tazilites. However, it doesn't seem like they all accept each other as sunnis, at least the atharis don't. I'm saying this based on the videos I've seen by abdulrahman hassan. Also, some books of athari aqeeda seem to have issues with them. So who is recognised as a sunni?
When it comes to Sunni vs Shi’I issues, all those groups and more count as Sunnis.  I.e. anyone who is not a Shi’I is a Sunni.  So any group or person, even when he doesn’t identify as a Sunni, is considered a Sunni in this discussion.  So what is being said here is that 90% of Muslims don’t agree with the Shi’a regarding the infallibility of the Imams.
As far as who are the true Ahl as-Sunnah wa Al-Jama’ah, then obviously, there are various groups viying for that title.  Just like in Shi’asim, you have 12er vs Zaydi vs Waqfi vs Ismaili, and amongst 12ers you have Usoolis vs Akhbaris, and among Usoolis you have pro-Wiliayat al-Faqeeh and anti, and so on, similarly the Sunnis have the Ashari/Maturidi vs Hanabli vs Taymi/Salafi and all the variations on that.  I’m not here to say one is the “true” Ahl as-Sunnah, as they all are the “true” Ahl as-Sunnah according to their definitions.  Since it is not a term that the definition is agreed upon, you’ll find different people applying it to different groups.
Ultimately, what they all agree upon is that the Shi’a claim is false.
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2) The athari creed says that they affirm Allah literally has hands and is established above a throne, although in a way that befits his majesty and this is the understanding of the sahaba. How many of the sahaba understood this? How do the athari creed understand the meaning of Allah being one and having different attributes? Do they believe Allah's attributes means that he has parts, even if they're not physical and nothing like His creation?
This is an oversimplification.  First of all, what we have from the Sahaba regarding the attributes of Allah is almost nothing, so the claim that the Sahaba understood this or that regarding this discussion is based on flimsy evidence.  Second of all, I will tell you first hand that the Salafis, when pushed on this discussion will ultimately succumb to an idea they dislike, which is “tafweed al-ma’na”, which is relegating the meaning of these attributes to Allah.  I don’t want to get into this discussion as I simply find it a big waste of time, but ultimately, they are usually all over the place with their aqeedah because they do not have any actual principles that they rely on, so each Salafi is all over the place.
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3) From what I've read on islamqa, the marriage of the prophet to aa'isha is because of a dream that he saw telling him that she would be his wife in this world and the next. This narration is considered as sahih by sunni standards (I'm not knowledgeable in hadith sciences), but what I've noticed is that it's narrated by aa'isha. I genuinely want to understand, how can we accept her own words about this, in praise of her, considering that she lied to the prophet regarding the smell of his breath which caused her to be condemned in the Quran for what she did out of jealousy? I'm not saying that anything she says is to be rejected, but even the twelvershia article acknowledges that she was willing to lie to the Prophet, even if it was out of love to begin with, so how can we trust her to narrate something good about herself?
I have several questions for you:
1)   If this story is true, who do you think would narrate it?
2)   If you are willing to reject her narrations because of this incident, would you also reject her narration of Hadeeth al-Kisaa’ and her reports that praise Khadeejah?
3)   Do you believe that a woman being jealous of her husband is grounds to reject her hadeeth?
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4) I'm confused as to whether sunnis believe that the prophet appointed abu bakr as his successor based on the narrations of him leading the prayers, or if it was left to the ummah to decide? If it's the former, why did the companions have to gather in saqifa to see who would become the prophet's successor?
This is used as evidence to support the idea that the Messenger صلى الله عليه وسلم wanted Abu Bakr رضي الله عنه to succeed him, not that it was explicit evidence.  Had their been explicit evidence, we wouldn’t be having this discussion today.
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5) Were there companions who left Islam and fought abu bakr during his caliphate? If so, how does that affect the way the verses in the Quran which praise the companions are viewed?
A companion is: Anyone who a) Met the Messenger صلى الله عليه وسلم, b) believed in him, c) during the Messenger صلى الله عليه وسلم’s lifetime, and d) died as a Muslim.  So, obviously a companion can’t be a companion if he died a murtadd.
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6) I've listened to content about the definition of adalah al sahabah which I found interesting. I don't necessarily have a problem with accepting that companions could have committed some major sins and maintained their overall trustworthiness, but I'm struggling to understand how muawiyah fought ali, one of the greatest companions of the prophet, the fourth rightly guided caliph and still maintained his trustworthiness? Also, is it established among sunnis that muawiyah used to curse ali?
I too have a problem with Mu’awiyah’s behavior, and this is why there is a consensus the Imam Ali عليه السلام ورضي الله عنه was in the right in their war.  However, my question to you then becomes, does this mean we can make tafeer of him?  Or does he fall into the category of being transgressing group of the two groups of believers who fight?  If we make tafkeer of him, or at the very least tafseeq, how does that change anything?  Will we lose any ahadeeth or ahkam shar’iah?  The answer is no, so I don’t see any benefit in discussing it.  Either he was a kafir, and it turns out my takfeer of him was correct, which doesn’t benefit me or harm me Yawm al-Qiyama, or I can make tafeer of him and it turns out I was wrong, which will only harm me.
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I think that if christians maintained similar views about the disciplines of jesus, then sunni muslims would criticise them for having such beliefs.
Interestingly, the Sunnis usually cite this report stating that, “I asked the Jews who are the best people in your religion, and they said Moses  عليه السلام’s companions.  And I asked the Christians who are the best people in your religion, and they said Isa عليه السلام’s disciples.  And I asked the Rafidah who are the worst people in your religion, and they said Mohammed صلى الله عليه وسلم’s companions.
I’m going to skip the last two questions as I must go now, but at least we can discuss what I have answered إن شاء الله if you like my answers.
بارك الله فيكم وأحسن الله إليكم
والسلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركاته
كلُّ سُلامى من الناس عليه صدقة كلَّ يوم تطلع فيه الشمس، تَعدلُ بين اثنين صدقة، وتعين الرَّجل في دابَّته فتحمله عليها أو ترفع له عليها متاعَه صدقة، والكلمةُ الطيِّبة صدقة، وبكلِّ خطوة تَمشيها إلى الصلاة صدقة، وتُميط الأذى عن الطريق صدقة

sum soul

Re: Many questions!
« Reply #32 on: December 04, 2020, 09:15:11 PM »
Thanks for your replies brothers. Unfortunately I won't be able to respond to each of you individually.

So from what I understand as a twelver shia, establishing a complete, detailed biography of the Prophet's life based on the earliest historical reports heavily relies on sunni books and narrations. So now, I have to go back and re-think how much of the sunni literature counts as an authority to me, whether the overall sunni narrative makes sense to me or not. If yes, that's a big problem solved, if no - what's the alternative? I must admit I haven't read deeply into twelver shia aqeedah when it comes to classical scholars, so I need to see if it's even acceptable for me.

May God guide us all to the truth.

Khaled

Re: Many questions!
« Reply #33 on: December 04, 2020, 10:13:39 PM »
So from what I understand as a twelver shia, establishing a complete, detailed biography of the Prophet's life based on the earliest historical reports heavily relies on sunni books and narrations.

Not only that, but you, as a Twelver Shia, have to completely rely on the non-12ers, aka the Sunnis, to have a copy of the Qur'an.  That to me, is the ultimate argument against Shia'sm; you guys were able to preserve all these supposed Du'as of cursing that the A'imah made, but not a single of you ever bothered to learn the Qur'an from the Imams to pass down to the Shi'as?
كلُّ سُلامى من الناس عليه صدقة كلَّ يوم تطلع فيه الشمس، تَعدلُ بين اثنين صدقة، وتعين الرَّجل في دابَّته فتحمله عليها أو ترفع له عليها متاعَه صدقة، والكلمةُ الطيِّبة صدقة، وبكلِّ خطوة تَمشيها إلى الصلاة صدقة، وتُميط الأذى عن الطريق صدقة

MuslimK

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Re: Many questions!
« Reply #34 on: December 04, 2020, 11:51:25 PM »

"Nabi Ibrahim(as) is the leader of all semetics religions. This is his leadership."

In all honesty, I'm currently more inclined towards the sunni understanding of Ibrahim becoming an Imam, as in a leader for all mankind, rather than attaining another divine rank. However, a question remains. Ibrahim asks Allah about his progeny to which Allah responds his covenant does not go to the unjust. Is this covenant that people from the progeny of Ibrahim will also become Imams for mankind? Is becoming an Imam for mankind only limited tor Prophets?

Maybe this will help; check Category nine: “Imaam for mankind”… Ibrahim and Imaamah on page 39.

Link: https://www.scribd.com/fullscreen/22274253?access_key=key-dmubm9oodwg3fkrn1n5
در خلافت میل نیست ای بی‌خبر
میل کی آید ز بوبکر و عمر
میل اگر بودی در آن دو مقتدا
هر دو کردندی پسر را پیشوا

عطار نِیشابوری

www.Nahjul-Balagha.net | www.TwelverShia.net | www.ghadirkhumm.com

 

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