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Request By a New Member

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demmzy15

Request By a New Member
« on: December 23, 2015, 11:29:30 PM »
Salam Aleikum Ya Ikwaan

My name is Muhammad Ibn Zakariyya An-Naijiree from Nigeria. I registered some days back and I'm happy with the activities going on here. I joined this forum because of the alarming rate Shia missionary are getting hold our Sunni brothers in West Africa.

Nigeria and West africa are known to be stronghold of Strict Ahl Sunnah and Soofees, but for the last 30years after the Iranian Revolution, Shiaism has gained popularity through a man called "Sheikh" Ibrahim El-Zakzaky. I for once thought the Shias only had their grip on northern Nigeria(mostly Hausas and Fulanis) but they've managed to get hold of the South(Yorubas).

Yorubas are known for their intelligence, so when some converted to Shiaism, they helped to propagate it more. Mind you I'm a yoruba too, a very smart yoruba Shia is Toyib Olawuyi(I guess you know about him, I wish I could get the refutation to his book because many use it to tackle sunnis trying to expose Shiaism).

El-Zakzaky was able to get many Soofees and "I don't care" sunnis into his fold by branding shiaism with a new name. He called it 'Islamic Movement of Nigeria'(here's their website http://www.islamicmovement.org/), so many Sunnis in the north were deceived. Now this guys have gained power in this country. I'm sure you must have heard about their clash with Army(though I don't like them but I never support shedding their blood).

This people have also been able to grab many Sunnis with their popular slogan "Muslim Unity!!!", recently a friend(may Allah guide him) of mine also a Yoruba is falling for their deception. They were able to get hold some brothers on this Nigerian Forum in which I’m a member, I tried refuting them when they tried to play their wahabi card on Sheikh Muhammad Ibn Abdulwahab http://www.nairaland.com/2627894/crush-cause-300-iranians-violated

Now a Shia with a monicker "AlBaqir" is who I suspect to be Toyib Olawuyi, he uses Toyib's books and he's super-smart. I was only able to shut him up in a debate about the Najd--Iraq Hadith in the above link. I'll be posting some of his posts here so as you guys could help. He has been successfull in changing some brothers. After getting hold of them, he then sends load of Shia books to them. Here's his profile: http://www.nairaland.com/albaqir

**Please if you cant view some threads, feel free to join, its a very short registration**

My request is please remember your brothers in prayers! May Allah forgive us all! AMEEN.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2015, 11:53:53 PM by demmzy15 »

Rationalist

Re: Request By a New Member
« Reply #1 on: December 24, 2015, 02:32:32 AM »
He is recycling the same arguments of the 12ers. The 12ers in reality are like jellyfish, they are like to be on the offensive, but when it comes to defending their sect they have  no backbone and end up using taqiyyah to deny many facts held against them.

One example is he is using is asking about the war contribution of the 3 Calipahs. It is well known they were not warriors like Khalid bin Waleed or Ali bin Abi Talib. Likewise the same case applies for those who they accept as Sahaba such as Ammar bin Yassir, Salman Farsi, Miqdad and Abu Dharr. Is there any reports where took out strong members of Qurash? I don't think so.

Secondly, he says Shaykh Imran Hosien denies Imamate from the Quran? Where does it say there are 12 Imams in the ummah?  All he can do is talk about the 12 Calipahs which is no way point toward the 12 Imams. In fact the hadith doesn't even qualify as a mutawatir, and the narrator who narrated that ahadith is rejected by the 12er Shia sect.

Anyway, to defeat the 12ers you need to study their sect more. The way they prove imamate is talking negative about the 3 Calipah. However, opposing in the 3 Calipah in no way proves that there are 12 Imams.

The other day, a  12er sister said since the Ahlul Bayt suffered this is the proof they are 12 Imams. I replied to that claim and said many other members of Ahlul bayt suffered and you deny their imams and at times your sect declares takfir against them. To that she had nothing left to say.




Farid

Re: Request By a New Member
« Reply #2 on: December 24, 2015, 03:35:15 AM »
Wa alaykum alsalam brother,

Welcome to the boards. It is good to have you here. Inshallah someone volunteers to head over there. I wish I could, but time is always a concern for me.

I did skim your posts and you seem to know what you are doing. Did you try to argue that Musailama the liar was from Najd though? That may be the easiest way in responding to this garbage, since he was far more dangerous than Mohammad bin Abdulwahab, if we assumed the latter was bad.

Hani

Re: Request By a New Member
« Reply #3 on: December 24, 2015, 04:15:36 AM »
Olawuyi's book (first volume of it) was refuted by Muhammad Moin. Problem is it isn't a full refutation to everything since the guy's book is big. But most of the important stuff was refuted leaving nothing but minor arguments:
http://forum.twelvershia.net/general-sunni-vs-shia/refutation-of-the-book-'ali-the-best-of-the-sahabah'-of-toyib-olawuyi/

عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

Hani

Re: Request By a New Member
« Reply #4 on: December 24, 2015, 04:16:14 AM »
What you can do is invite the Shia here for debate and watch them collapse (whether it's Olawuyi or not). Also post their arguments here so we can refute them.

He wrote this Hadith:

[[1. Hadith from Sahih al-Bukhari:

ﺣﺪﺛﻨﺎ ﻣﺤﻤﺪ ﺑﻦ ﺍﻟﻤﺜﻨﻰ ﻗﺎﻝ ﺣﺪﺛﻨﺎ ﺣﺴﻴﻦ ﺑﻦ ﺍﻟﺤﺴﻦ ﻗﺎﻝ ﺣﺪﺛﻨﺎ ﺍﺑﻦ ﻋﻮﻥ ﻋﻦ ﻧﺎﻓﻊ ﻋﻦ ﺍﺑﻦ ﻋﻤﺮ ﻗﺎﻝ: ﺍﻟﻠﻬﻢ ﺑﺎﺭﻙ ﻟﻨﺎ ﻓﻲ ﺷﺎﻣﻨﺎ ﻭﻓﻲ ﻳﻤﻨﻨﺎ . ﻗﺎﻝ ﻗﺎﻟﻮﺍ ﻭﻓﻲ ﻧﺠﺪﻧﺎ ؟ ﻗﺎﻝ ﻗﺎﻝ ‏ﺍﻟﻠﻬﻢ ﺑﺎﺭﻙ ﻟﻨﺎ ﻓﻲ ﺷﺎﻣﻨﺎ ﻭﻓﻲ ﻳﻤﻨﻨﺎ . ﻗﺎﻝ ﻗﺎﻟﻮﺍ ﻭﻓﻲ ﻧﺠﺪﻧﺎ . ؟ ﻗﺎﻝ ﻗﺎﻝ ‏ﻫﻨﺎﻙ ﺍﻟﺰﻻﺯﻝ ﻭﺍﻟﻔﺘﻦ ﻭﺑﻬﺎ ﻳﻄﻠﻊ ﻗﺮﻥ ﺍﻟﺸﻴﻄﺎﻥ

Narrated Nafi':

Ibn 'Umar said: "O Allah, bless our Syria and our Yemen for us."

They said, "And our Najd?"

He said, "O Allah, bless our Syria and our Yemen for us."]]

Tell him in this narration is praise for Yemen (Majority Sunni, minority Zaydi) and Shaam (All Nawasib and it's where Yazid lived and Mu`awiyah etc...)

Tell him, by accepting the Najd part he's accepting that Mu`awiyah and Yazid are blessed and rightfully guided as a blessed man cannot be misguided now could he?
« Last Edit: December 24, 2015, 04:25:10 AM by Hani »
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

MuslimK

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Re: Request By a New Member
« Reply #5 on: December 24, 2015, 09:47:16 PM »
Walaikum Salam wr wb,

Welcome to the forum dear brother. Please invite that guy is to this forum.
در خلافت میل نیست ای بی‌خبر
میل کی آید ز بوبکر و عمر
میل اگر بودی در آن دو مقتدا
هر دو کردندی پسر را پیشوا

عطار نِیشابوری

www.Nahjul-Balagha.net | www.TwelverShia.net | www.ghadirkhumm.com

Ibn Yahya

Re: Request By a New Member
« Reply #6 on: December 24, 2015, 11:00:47 PM »
Shias write like and copy and paste from Sayed Ali but doesn't mean they are him. Toyib from my understanding has gone largely quiet but he published a book like a year ago pointing out how all the Ahadith abusing A'isha are weak in their books and all the Yasseris just said that 'Ilm ar-Rijal is pointless and that most of their Hadiths would be declared weak if they did that.

Rationalist

Re: Request By a New Member
« Reply #7 on: December 24, 2015, 11:06:38 PM »
^^This is this a unity  tacticto lure Sunnis into their Rafidi sect. Also what is Yasiriyath? Open takfir is common among Shirazis, but him being a 12er had to use the term Yassiriyah? Again his so called defense was marketing tool, and in the end like majority of the 12ers he curses Ayesha and wishes her in eternal jahanum.

demmzy15

Re: Request By a New Member
« Reply #8 on: December 24, 2015, 11:26:01 PM »
Insha'Allah Ikwaan, I'll invite him. I pray  he complies.

Hadrami

Re: Request By a New Member
« Reply #9 on: December 25, 2015, 06:56:45 AM »
wa alaikum salam brother, invite or challenge the most knowledgeable shia there to debate here would be a great way to promote this forum. If they are afraid, usually you can do copy & paste the comment here to that forum

MuslimAnswers

Re: Request By a New Member
« Reply #10 on: December 25, 2015, 09:18:32 AM »
^

I am wondering what was this with the Army that went on? It is claimed the leader is "Ayatullah" Zakzaky -is it  true that he is an Ayatullah?

At the end, the Sunni leaders in Nigeria and West Africa will know best how to tackle this issue, we may give some refutations, but the ground-work can only be accomplished by those who know the full situation in the specific time and place.

Ibn Yahya

Re: Request By a New Member
« Reply #11 on: December 29, 2015, 03:25:34 PM »
^^This is this a unity  tacticto lure Sunnis into their Rafidi sect. Also what is Yasiriyath? Open takfir is common among Shirazis, but him being a 12er had to use the term Yassiriyah? Again his so called defense was marketing tool, and in the end like majority of the 12ers he curses Ayesha and wishes her in eternal jahanum.
The Najis cult followers of Yasser al-Khabith. Toyib won't be able to trump the ijtihad of those like Majlisi and Khomeini despite the practical evidence. A Shi'i will always refer to his Marja' above al-Kafi or Bihar al-Anwar, even if they say they don't, they usually end up doing that. They do this because their Ahadith make no sense and are incredibly vague and contradictory.

Siamak

Re: Request By a New Member
« Reply #12 on: December 30, 2015, 07:24:33 PM »
welcome bro
The Shia do talk a lot of nonsense and I never trust what they say unless it is verified.i am from iran,iran is the country that most of peopele are shia iran government is so hungry to takeover sunni dominant areas and countries.they want to speard shia with any way but  People inside Iran know very well the reality of the Shia beliefs i advise you to  more search about iran and you can find many of iranians are secular or converted to sunni or christian indeed iran govermrnt  spends iranians  money on Advertising to spread Shia ideology
you can ask your questions here and , we have People with knowledge here who will be updating the thread with useful information and topics to talk about
« Last Edit: December 30, 2015, 07:27:27 PM by Siamak »

Rationalist

Re: Request By a New Member
« Reply #13 on: December 30, 2015, 10:35:04 PM »
In Iran, even the 12er Shias are restricted from freedom. They are not allowed to question the fallibility of the supreme leader which is non-sense.

 

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