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Possible for Allah to be a physical thing?

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Noor-us-Sunnah

Re: Possible for Allah to be a physical thing?
« Reply #20 on: December 13, 2017, 01:53:14 AM »
It seems Ibn Taymiyyah was simply saying "Don't describe God in a way that He didn't describe Himself." So neither physical nor non-physical nor anything else as it is not your place to speak on this.

Exactly, a simple and balanced statement is like rocket science for these Shias.

muslim720

Re: Possible for Allah to be a physical thing?
« Reply #21 on: December 14, 2017, 01:14:34 AM »
Do you mean the vast majority of scholars of the Ahlus-Sunnah i.e the Ashariyya and Maturidiyya? The ones who have by far the most number of islamic schools and followers in India, in Pakistan , in Egypt (al-Azhar), in Morocco, in most of north Africa, as well as a fair presence in the far east as well as a fair presence even in the Salafi-Athari dominated Saudi Arabia?

Why are you so quick to lie on a vast number of Muslims?  I have had the blessing to sit in the gatherings of various schools of Islam - Sunnis, Sufis (though, to me, they're within Ahlus Sunnah), Shia - and even the Sufi shaykh, Hisham Kabbani (who lives in Michigan) of the Naqshbandi order, considers Salafis to misrepresent Ibn Taymiyyah (rah) either by mistake or design.

My post was aimed at Shia scholars because not a single Shia gathering I have sat in has concluded without at least one mention of, or reference to, Sahih Bukhari, Sahih Muslim, Ahlus Sunnah, Ibn Taymiyyah (rah), Muhammad ibn Wahab, etc.  Sometimes I feel like you make tasbeeh of those names more than you remember Allah (swt).
"Our coward ran from those in authority" - Iceman (admitting the truth regarding his 12th Imam)

Noor-us-Sunnah

Re: Possible for Allah to be a physical thing?
« Reply #22 on: December 19, 2017, 09:50:04 PM »
Firstly, the reason I posted the link of this video ( https://youtu.be/wuKo3yFaRtM ), was to educate you about the views of your top scholar like Shareef al Murtadha. Watch the video from 18:18 till 19:18 see how shareef murtadha tries to defend Hisham Ibn hakam who believed Allah is body(Jism), by arguing that Hisham meant body(jism) not like other bodies and there is no disagreement that it is not tashbih.

So your attacks on Salafees are due to your ignorance, bigotry and bias. Whereas, for your scholars a highly praised Shia(hisham al hakam) who belived that Allah is body unlike other body is not tashbih.

As for the debate between us on this matter, then tell me who will be the judge ? Will it be Quran and Sunnah or ideas formed using kalaam? Because Quran says if you are in dispute refer back to Allah and his Prophet(saws).

Another Shia Scholar supported this view.

Shia Scholar Shiekh Hasan bin al-Shaheed al-Thani, in his “Tahrir at-Tawusi” page 594 states:

    حكى السيد رحمه الله من كتاب أحمد بن محمد بن خالد البرقي في حال هشام انه قال: هشام بن الحكم، مولى بني شيبان كوفي، تحول من الكوفة إلى بغداد، وكنيته أبو محمد، وفي كتاب سعد: له كتاب، وكان من غلمان أبي شاكر الزنديق، جسمي رؤيي (2). قلت: ذكر المرتضى رضي الله عنه في كتاب الشافي جوابا لرمي هشام بالتجسيم ما هذا لفظه: فأما ما رمي به هشام بن الحكم رحمه الله من القول (3) بالتجسيم فالظاهر من الحكاية عنه القول بجسم لا كالاجسام، ولا خلاف في أن
    هذا القول ليس بتشبيه
and it was narrated by Sayeed from the book of Ahmad ibn Muhammad ibn Khalid al-Barqi about Hisham: Hisham ibn Hakam, Mawla of Banu Shayban Kufi, moved from al-Kufa to Baghdad, and his kunya was Abu Muhammad, and in the book of Sad: He (Hisham) has a book, and was from servants of Abu Shakeer HERETIC, (HISHAM) HOLD ANTHROPOMORPHIC VIEWS. I say: Al-Murtada mentioned in his book ash-Shafe answer to the accusation of Hisham in anthropomorphism, with this words: As for accusation of Hisham ibn Hakam (may Allah forgive him) in anthropomorphism then what is apparent from what was narrated from him, he use to say (that Allah has) body not like (all) bodies, AND THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE IN THE VIEWS THAT THIS SAYING IS NOT LIKENING (ALLAH TO THE CREATION).

Zlatan Ibrahimovic

Re: Possible for Allah to be a physical thing?
« Reply #23 on: December 30, 2017, 09:56:45 AM »
I'm not going to deny a fair number of Shias might have that belief, but i follow the views of Sayed Fadllulah (rh) in refraining from making any judgement until the day of judgement. While they have done a lot wrong, Allah will judge them. Anyway, no matter what i believe about them to even talk disrespectfully about them when the majority of Muslims revere them out and out is forbidden.  Seriously, that is my belief.

Why are you scared of telling these people  what we believe regarding them and the shaykhayn? Sayed Fadlullah is hardly someone to take opinions from, not only was his fatwas completely unorthodox rather his aqeeda was very weak. Not only do we believe those two are going to Hell, we believe their followers are in for a harsh punishment.

I don't understand this soft talk, and that's why I left ShiaChat long ago cause its filled with such language.

We have reliable hadiths regarding this and the opinions of the older and modern scholars. Stop this soft talk brother.

محور المقاومة والممانعة

Zlatan Ibrahimovic

Re: Possible for Allah to be a physical thing?
« Reply #24 on: December 30, 2017, 10:00:59 AM »
Why are you scared of telling these people  what we believe regarding them and the shaykhayn? Sayed Fadlullah is hardly someone to take opinions from, not only was his fatwas completely unorthodox rather his aqeeda was very weak. Not only do we believe those two are going to Hell, we believe their followers are in for a harsh punishment.

I don't understand this soft talk, and that's why I left ShiaChat long ago cause its filled with such language.

We have reliable hadiths regarding those who deny the Imams (as) and we also have the opinions of the older and modern scholars, may Allah have mercy on the ones who died and preserve those who are alive. Stop this soft talk brother.
محور المقاومة والممانعة

whoaretheshia

Re: Possible for Allah to be a physical thing?
« Reply #25 on: December 20, 2019, 10:30:31 PM »
Happy to hear any new input
"I leave behind for you two weighty things, which if you hold onto, you will never go astray...the Quran and my Ahlulbayt" - Musnad Ibn Rawayh (al-Albani classes Isnaad *independently* as Hasan, and Matn as authentic, as does Al-Arnaut, Ibn Hajar and others.

Ebn Hussein

Re: Possible for Allah to be a physical thing?
« Reply #26 on: December 28, 2019, 07:05:51 AM »
from Hanafi Fiqh channel, representing the true Aqeedah of the Sunni, the Ashari and the Maturidi, the real defenders of Sunni Islam and i admit this even as a Shia:


tHe rEaL sUnNi iSlAm...i AdMit tHis...

tHe mAjoRitY (arguing like some laymen Sunnis with their weak points, such as pointing out that Sunnis are the majority. Numbers are irrelevant).

Anyways, Rafidis don't determine anything for us. As an Ex-Shia (like most Shias) I always presented the most misguided and Khurafi grave-worshipping 'Sunnis' as true Sunnis...for good reasons, obviously.

As for IT: He's a fallible man, you can burn all his books, Sunnism will still be superior to Rafidism. Having said that, you don't understand his Kalam, is way above your head, trust me.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2019, 07:10:31 AM by Ebn Hussein »
الإمام الشافعي رحمه الله
لم أر أحداً من أهل الأهواء أشهد بالزور من الرافضة! - الخطيب في الكفاية والسوطي.

Imam Al-Shafi3i - may Allah have mercy upon him - said: "I have not seen among the heretics a people more famous for falsehood than the Rafidah." [narrated by Al-Khatib Al-Baghdadi/Al-Kifayah]

 

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