Prophet Isa's (as) Superiority Over the 12th Imam

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.


Prophet Isa's (as) Superiority Over the 12th Imam
« on: May 13, 2017, 02:02:03 AM »
The 12er Shia say the 12th Imam is superior to Prophet Isa (as) because he will lead prayer. However, even in their narration the Imam requests Prophet Isa (as) to lead first. So I am wondering if it was that obvious why would the 12th Imam even request Prophet Isa (as) to lead? When the 12th Imam's uncle Jafar (as) tried to lead the janazah of his brother Hassan the 12ers say, the 12th Imam pushed him and then decided to take the lead because only an Imam can lead when present.
Next, when I went through the narrations of Prophet Isa's (as) return it turns out that it will be Prophet Isa (as) who will kill Dajjal and not Mahdi. So, once again this dismisses the fact that the Imams are higher than Prophets. The reason is it seems like the Mahdi will be unable to overpower Dajjal and will depend on Prophet Isa (as) to come and help the ummah to defeat the Dajjal.
Thirdly, in the 12er Shia narrations it states that Prophet Isa (as) is the end of the ummah. Could this mean he will outlive the 12th Imam and rule after?
Here are the references to the above.

Prophet Isa (as) killing Dajjal, and not the 12th Imam
It is reported that Abu ‘Abd Allah (‘a) said, “Jesus the son of Mary is the Spirit of Allah and His Word. He was thirty-three years old in the world. Then Allah raised him to heaven. He will descend to the earth and it is he who will kill the Antichrist (Dajjal.)” (Tafsir Al-Qummi, 2, 271)

The 12th imam first requesting Prophet Isa (as) to lead the prayer.
Hudhayfah reported that the Prophet (S) said, “Al-Mahdi will turn his face to Jesus when he descends as if water were dropping from his hair, and will say to him, ‘Go ahead and say the prayer.’ Jesus will say, ‘The prayer has been set up only for you.’ So, Jesus will pray behind a man who is among my sons.” (Sirat al-Mustaqim, 2, 257)

Prophet Isa (as) ruling in the end
The Apostle of Allah (S) said, “Good news for you. [He repeated it three times.] … How can the community of which I am the first perish? There are twelve persons after me who are felicitous and possess understanding and Christ Jesus the son of Mary is at the end of them. But between them, the children of confusion will perish. They are not from me and I am not from them.” ( Khisal, 2, 476)
The Apostle of Allah said, “How can a community perish when I am at the beginning of it, Jesus the son of Mary will be at the end of it and al-Mahdi will be in the middle of it.” (Dala’il al-Imamah, 234).


Re: Prophet Isa's (as) Superiority Over the 12th Imam
« Reply #1 on: May 13, 2017, 06:12:26 AM »
In our authentic narrations it's the same, review my article on Mahdi.
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear


Re: Prophet Isa's (as) Superiority Over the 12th Imam
« Reply #2 on: May 13, 2017, 06:12:04 PM »
Yep they copied and pasted from us, and ending up contradicting their own aqeeda.


Re: Prophet Isa's (as) Superiority Over the 12th Imam
« Reply #3 on: June 04, 2018, 05:48:28 AM »
From my understanding the Quran strongly hints toward the leadership of Prophet Isa (as).

[Pickthal 3:55] (And remember) when Allah said: O Jesus! Lo! I am gathering thee and causing thee to ascend unto Me, and am cleansing thee of those who disbelieve and am setting those who follow thee above those who disbelieve until the Day of Resurrection. Then unto Me ye will (all) return, and I shall judge between you as to that wherein ye used to differ.

The you here is referring to Prophet Isa (as) and not any of the 12 imams. So Prophet Isa's (as) rule is destined which dismisses the concept that there are 12 divinely appointed rulers.


Re: Prophet Isa's (as) Superiority Over the 12th Imam
« Reply #4 on: June 07, 2018, 06:46:51 AM »
It turns out Imam Baqer in Tafsir al Tabari agrees with my interpretation.

حدثنا ابن وكيع، قال ثنا حميد بن عبد الرحمن، عن فضيل بن مرزوق، قال ثني من سمع أبا جعفر { لِيُظْهِرَهُ على الدّينِ كُلِّهِ } قال إذا خرج عيسى عليه السلام اتبعه أهل كل دين.

Ibn Wakīʿ narrated to us. He said: Ḥumayd b. ʿAbd al-Raḥmān narrated to us from Fuḍayl b. Marzūq.  He said: Someone who heard Abū Jaʿfar narrated to me. “That He make it prevail over all religion" (9:33) He said: When Jesus عليه السلام has emerged, the people of every religion will follow him.


Related Topics

  Subject / Started by Replies Last post
53 Replies
Last post August 13, 2019, 10:22:14 AM
by Shia not Rafidi
22 Replies
Last post March 19, 2017, 04:18:57 AM
by Rationalist
0 Replies
Last post March 19, 2017, 05:36:25 AM
by Rationalist
2 Replies
Last post May 13, 2017, 01:14:34 AM
by Rationalist