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IMAM SHAFII WAS SHIA?

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omar111

IMAM SHAFII WAS SHIA?
« on: April 27, 2016, 09:17:26 PM »
بهذا الاعتبار قال أحمد بن عبد الله العجلي في الشافعي: كان يتشيع، وهو ثقة.
 تاريخ الإسلام للذهبي الجزء الرابع عشر الصفحة  338-337

http://islamport.com/w/tkh/Web/3534/7331.htm
 
 Although Dhabi tried to defend shafi by saying that shiat only means the love of Ali,but the jarah of Ajali is clear enough

Farid

Re: IMAM SHAFII WAS SHIA?
« Reply #1 on: April 27, 2016, 09:58:09 PM »
Al Thahabi would be correct since Al Ijli used to refer to others that are politically Shias as Shia, like Abdulrazzaq and Abu Ahmad Al Zubairi.

However, referring to Al Shafi'ee as politically Shia is too strange, since I do not recall anyone saying this about him. I have two of Al Ijli's books with me. Both Rijali books and none of them have this quote. Perhaps this is incorrectly attributed to Al Ijli.

omar111

Re: IMAM SHAFII WAS SHIA?
« Reply #2 on: April 28, 2016, 01:01:13 PM »
I think by politically Shias,you mean thoose that differed in khilafat.But what was the position of Imam Shafii about the khilafat of Ali?
 I often wonder how scholars would mention such things in Rijal books without any refrence.And knowledge of some of them was defective,as Hakim had no knowledge that there were 70 badri sahaba fighting in Siffen.

Farid

Re: IMAM SHAFII WAS SHIA?
« Reply #3 on: April 28, 2016, 01:51:44 PM »
I think by politically Shias,you mean thoose that differed in khilafat.But what was the position of Imam Shafii about the khilafat of Ali?
 I often wonder how scholars would mention such things in Rijal books without any refrence.And knowledge of some of them was defective,as Hakim had no knowledge that there were 70 badri sahaba fighting in Siffen.

Al Shafi'ee is the same politically as the rest of Ahlulsunnah, which is why that statement is a strange one.

Al Hakam was correct. I personally spent over a hundred hours studying the participants of Badr. To say that 70 were in Siffeen is a Shia fabrication.

omar111

Re: IMAM SHAFII WAS SHIA?
« Reply #4 on: April 28, 2016, 10:14:51 PM »


Al Hakam was correct. I personally spent over a hundred hours studying the participants of Badr. To say that 70 were in Siffeen is a Shia fabrication.

 وقتل بصفين سبعون ألفا خمسة وأربعون ألفا من أهل الشام وخمسة وعشرون ألفا من أهل العراق منهم خمسة وعشرون بدريا
ابن الجوزي الحنبلي، جمال الدين ابوالفرج عبد الرحمن بن علي بن محمد (متوفاى 597 هـ)، المنتظم في تاريخ الملوك والأمم، ج 5، ص120 ، ناشر: دار صادر – بيروت، الطبعة: الأولى، 1358.
70 Badri sahaba are mentioned by Yaqubi, vol 2, p. 188. Tarikh Al-Yaqubi (Tarikh Ibn Wadih).
I have never read what were the thoughts of Imam shaffi about the khilafat or Abubakr.But I have read that he had excessive love of Ali and called himself Rafdhi.
یا راکِباً قِف بالمُحَصَّبِ مِن منیً
وَاهتِف بِقاعِدِ خَیفِها وَالنَّاهِضِ
سَحَراً إذا فاضَ الحَجیجُ إلی مِنیً
فَیضاً کَمُلتَطِمِ الفُراتِ الفائِضِ
إن کانَ  رَفضاً   حُبُّ  آلِ   مُحمَّدٍ
فَلیَشهَدِ الثَّقَلانِ أنّی رَافضِی


یا آلَ بَیتِ رَسولِ الله حُبُّکُمُ
فَرضٌ مِنَ الله فی القُرآنِ أنزَلَهُ
کَفاکُم مِن عظیمِ القَدرِ أنّکُم
مَن لَم یُصلِّ عَلَیکُم لَا صَلَاةَ لَهُ

 
إنّا عَبــیدٌ لِفتیً  أنزلَ  فِیـــهِ  هَل أتَی
إلی مَتــی أکتُمُهُ؟ إلی مَتی؟ إلی مَتی؟
 


قَالُوا: تَرَفَّضتَ قُلتُ: کَلَّا
مَا الَّرفضُ دینی وَ لا إعتِقادی
لکِن تَوَلَّیتُ غَیرَ شَکٍّ
خَیرَ إمَامٍ وَ خَیرَ هَادی
إن کَانَ حُبُّ الوَلِیِّ رَفضاً
فإنَّنی أرفَضُ العِبادَ


لَئِن کانَ ذَنبِی حُبُّ آلِ محمَّدٍ
فذلِکَ ذَنبٌ لَستُ عَنهُ أتوبُ
هُمُ شُفَعائی یومَ حَشری و مَوقِفی إذا
کثرتنی یوم ذاک ذنوب



و سائلی عن حُب أهل البیت هل؟
أُقرّ إعلاناً به أم أجحدُ
هَیهاتَ ممزوجٌ بلحمی و دَمی
حُبُّهم و هو الهُدی و الرشدُ
یا أهل بیتِ المصطفی یا عدتی
وَ مَن علی حبّهُم أعتَمدُ
أنتم إلی اللهِ غَداً وَسیلَتی
و کیف أخشی؟ و بکم اعتضدُ
ولیّکم فی الخُلدِ حَیّ خَالدٌ
و الضدُ فی نارٍ لَظیً مُخلّدُ
 

وَ لَمَّا رَأیتُ النَّاسَ قَد ذَهَبَت بِهِم
مَذَاهِبُهُم فِی أبحُرِ الغَیِّ وَ الجَهلِ
رَکِبتُ عَلَی اسمِ الله فِی سُفُنِ النَّجَا
وَ هُم آل بَیتِ المُصطفَی خَاتَمِ الرُّسُلِ
وَ أمسَکتُ حَبلَ اللهِ وَ هُوَ وَلاءوهُم
کَما قَد أُمِرنَا بالتَمسُّکِ بالحَبلِ



 Collection of Imam Shafi’i Poetry, p. 93, Dar al-Kitab al-Arabi, Beirut, 1414 A.H.
   
Maybe there is some truth in this statement of Ujlii after reading this poetry.


Farid

Re: IMAM SHAFII WAS SHIA?
« Reply #5 on: April 28, 2016, 10:35:16 PM »
Akhi, Al Hakam was born in the first century. His opinion has more weight than Ibn Al Jawzi.

Are you suggesting that Al Shafi'ee is a Twelver or a Rafidhi by any chance?

Moin

Re: IMAM SHAFII WAS SHIA?
« Reply #6 on: April 28, 2016, 10:49:08 PM »
The simple fact is that not all criticisms are accepted. We rely on blanket allegations only when we do not have any other option. One can simply check books of Shafii to understand what kind of Shi'a he was. Al-Shafii was far greater than al-Ijli himself.

Hani

Re: IMAM SHAFII WAS SHIA?
« Reply #7 on: April 28, 2016, 11:13:09 PM »
I consider myself a Shia and I run an anti-Shia website. Shia of Abu Bakr though, are you sure they didn't mean al-Shafi`i was from Abu bakr's Shia :p
« Last Edit: April 28, 2016, 11:57:06 PM by Hani »
عَلامَةُ أَهْلِ الْبِدَعِ الْوَقِيعَةُ فِي أَهْلِ الأَثَرِ. وَعَلامَةُ الْجَهْمِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُشَبِّهَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الْقَدَرِيَّةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ السُّنَّةِ مُجَبِّرَةً. وَعَلامَةُ الزَّنَادِقَةِ أَنْ يُسَمُّوا أَهْلَ الأَثَرِ حَشْوِيَّةً

Religion = simple & clear

MuslimK

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Re: IMAM SHAFII WAS SHIA?
« Reply #8 on: April 29, 2016, 02:43:05 AM »
I have never read what were the thoughts of Imam shaffi about the khilafat or Abubakr.But I have read that he had excessive love of Ali and called himself Rafdhi.
یا راکِباً قِف بالمُحَصَّبِ مِن منیً
وَاهتِف بِقاعِدِ خَیفِها وَالنَّاهِضِ
سَحَراً إذا فاضَ الحَجیجُ إلی مِنیً
فَیضاً کَمُلتَطِمِ الفُراتِ الفائِضِ
إن کانَ  رَفضاً   حُبُّ  آلِ   مُحمَّدٍ
فَلیَشهَدِ الثَّقَلانِ أنّی رَافضِی


یا آلَ بَیتِ رَسولِ الله حُبُّکُمُ
فَرضٌ مِنَ الله فی القُرآنِ أنزَلَهُ
کَفاکُم مِن عظیمِ القَدرِ أنّکُم
مَن لَم یُصلِّ عَلَیکُم لَا صَلَاةَ لَهُ

 
إنّا عَبــیدٌ لِفتیً  أنزلَ  فِیـــهِ  هَل أتَی
إلی مَتــی أکتُمُهُ؟ إلی مَتی؟ إلی مَتی؟
 


قَالُوا: تَرَفَّضتَ قُلتُ: کَلَّا
مَا الَّرفضُ دینی وَ لا إعتِقادی
لکِن تَوَلَّیتُ غَیرَ شَکٍّ
خَیرَ إمَامٍ وَ خَیرَ هَادی
إن کَانَ حُبُّ الوَلِیِّ رَفضاً
فإنَّنی أرفَضُ العِبادَ


لَئِن کانَ ذَنبِی حُبُّ آلِ محمَّدٍ
فذلِکَ ذَنبٌ لَستُ عَنهُ أتوبُ
هُمُ شُفَعائی یومَ حَشری و مَوقِفی إذا
کثرتنی یوم ذاک ذنوب



و سائلی عن حُب أهل البیت هل؟
أُقرّ إعلاناً به أم أجحدُ
هَیهاتَ ممزوجٌ بلحمی و دَمی
حُبُّهم و هو الهُدی و الرشدُ
یا أهل بیتِ المصطفی یا عدتی
وَ مَن علی حبّهُم أعتَمدُ
أنتم إلی اللهِ غَداً وَسیلَتی
و کیف أخشی؟ و بکم اعتضدُ
ولیّکم فی الخُلدِ حَیّ خَالدٌ
و الضدُ فی نارٍ لَظیً مُخلّدُ
 

وَ لَمَّا رَأیتُ النَّاسَ قَد ذَهَبَت بِهِم
مَذَاهِبُهُم فِی أبحُرِ الغَیِّ وَ الجَهلِ
رَکِبتُ عَلَی اسمِ الله فِی سُفُنِ النَّجَا
وَ هُم آل بَیتِ المُصطفَی خَاتَمِ الرُّسُلِ
وَ أمسَکتُ حَبلَ اللهِ وَ هُوَ وَلاءوهُم
کَما قَد أُمِرنَا بالتَمسُّکِ بالحَبلِ



 Collection of Imam Shafi’i Poetry, p. 93, Dar al-Kitab al-Arabi, Beirut, 1414 A.H.
   
Maybe there is some truth in this statement of Ujlii after reading this poetry.


Salam Alaikum,

Imam Shafi didn't call himself a Rafidhi. You misunderstood the poem of Imam Shafi. Probably because some liar is providing you false translation. The Imam said: "If Rafidhi means loving the Prophet's (saw) Family, then witness that I am a Rafidhi." See the difference.
در خلافت میل نیست ای بی‌خبر
میل کی آید ز بوبکر و عمر
میل اگر بودی در آن دو مقتدا
هر دو کردندی پسر را پیشوا

عطار نِیشابوری

www.Nahjul-Balagha.net | www.TwelverShia.net | www.ghadirkhumm.com

omar111

Re: IMAM SHAFII WAS SHIA?
« Reply #9 on: April 29, 2016, 11:30:28 AM »
Dhabi wrote in mizan
 کذبہ شعبة لکونہ روی عن الحکم عن ابن ابی لیلی انہ قال شہد صفین من اہل بدر سبعون فقال شعبة کذب وﷲ لقد ذاکرت الحکم فما وجدنا شہد صفین احدًا من اہل بدر غیر خزیمة قلت سبحان اﷲ اما شہدہا علی اما شہدہا عمار انتہیٰ ''
So Hakim was only aware of only ONE badri sahabi in siffin.But dhabi rejected this statement of Hakim by saying that there were Ali and Ammar in siffen,so that at least make three!

   Whenever I am debating shias, they quote that shafii and syuti were shias.So I want to know the actual position of shafii on khilafat as rejecter of khilafat is kafir in hanfis.Debate is only academic, brother, as shafii is a great muhaddis and faqih of ahlsunnat.
 Loving Ali is not a problem but if you think that he was superior to Abubakr, then we have a problem. And Shafii considered ahl e bayt as intercessors and his guides. I can read Arabic so I don’t rely on translations.


Farid

Re: IMAM SHAFII WAS SHIA?
« Reply #10 on: April 29, 2016, 12:16:20 PM »
In regards to the statement of Al Hakam, he meant: In addition to Ali and Ammar. Those two are the most obvious participants and both of their participation is ridiculous.

Be aware that even Shuba bin Al Hajjaj does not go against the statement of Al Hakam, and he was Ameer Al Mu'mineen fil hadith.

As for the poetry, you need to find out if it is authentically attributed to Al Shafi'ee. I have my doubts.

 

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