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Sunni Shia discuss: Ali Was a Divinely Appointed Leader?

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MuslimK

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Sunni Shia discuss: Ali Was a Divinely Appointed Leader?
« on: December 08, 2017, 11:37:51 AM »
Interesting discussion.

At one point the Sunni ask the Shia to show a verse that say follow Ahlulbayt, the Shia starts reciting Surah al-Fatiha as evidence

در خلافت میل نیست ای بی‌خبر
میل کی آید ز بوبکر و عمر
میل اگر بودی در آن دو مقتدا
هر دو کردندی پسر را پیشوا

عطار نِیشابوری

www.Nahjul-Balagha.net | www.TwelverShia.net | www.ghadirkhumm.com

Noor-us-Sunnah

Re: Sunni Shia discuss: Ali Was a Divinely Appointed Leader?
« Reply #1 on: December 08, 2017, 02:30:12 PM »
MashaAllah! Nice arguments put forth by the Sunni debator. He clearly established how weak and ambiguous the Shia arguments and their evidence are.

The Shia guy was making an argument that, it's not logical to him that Allah(swt) will not divinely appoint a leader after Muhammad(saws). The simple answer is that, is it logical for him to believe that Allah divinely appointed a leader in ghadeer AFTER THE RELIGION WAS PERFECTED in Arafat?

Also is it logical for him to believe that after the Ghaybah of his twelfth Imam, there is no divinely appointed leader. If ummah can survive without a divinely appointed leader after the Ghaybah of twelfth Imam then why can't it survive after Prophet Muhammad(saws)?

fgss

Re: Sunni Shia discuss: Ali Was a Divinely Appointed Leader?
« Reply #2 on: December 08, 2017, 05:38:41 PM »
Here is one more simple question for which there is surely no answer except some lame excuses.

Did Imam Ali himself declare to the masses that he is a divinely appointed?

Did he himself claim what shias after him are claiming on his behalf?

If no then case closed. There is nothing like divine imamah. Alhamdulilah.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2017, 05:41:53 PM by fgss »
إِنَّ أَصْدَقَ الْحَدِيثِ كِتَابُ اللَّهِ وَأَحْسَنَ الْهَدْىِ هَدْىُ مُحَمَّدٍ وَشَرَّ الأُمُورِ مُحْدَثَاتُهَا وَكُلَّ مُحْدَثَةٍ بِدْعَةٌ وَكُلَّ بِدْعَةٍ ضَلاَلَةٌ وَكُلَّ ضَلاَلَةٍ فِي النَّارِ

May Allah guide us to the true teachings of Quran and Sunnah of His beloved Prophet (s.a.w.w). Ameen

iceman

Re: Sunni Shia discuss: Ali Was a Divinely Appointed Leader?
« Reply #3 on: December 08, 2017, 08:46:48 PM »
Interesting discussion.

At one point the Sunni ask the Shia to show a verse that say follow Ahlulbayt, the Shia starts reciting Surah al-Fatiha as evidence



"At one point the Sunni asks the Shia to show a verse that says ' follow Ahlulbayt'

What, is the Prophet's (s) word not good enough?  Does everything have to be from the Qoran? Doesn't the Prophet (s) and his saying mean anything?

The Prophet (s) asked people to join the army under Osama's command but they refused, probably it wasn't in the Qoran, it wasn't from Allah.

The Prophet (s) asked for pen and paper so that he may right something very important so the Ummah doesn't go astray but they refused and said that the book of Allah is enough.

It's just Allah and the Qoran?

Noor-us-Sunnah

Re: Sunni Shia discuss: Ali Was a Divinely Appointed Leader?
« Reply #4 on: December 08, 2017, 09:10:03 PM »
"At one point the Sunni asks the Shia to show a verse that says ' follow Ahlulbayt'

What, is the Prophet's (s) word not good enough?  Does everything have to be from the Qoran? Doesn't the Prophet (s) and his saying mean anything?
For the matter of fundamental of deen, the Quran is the Judge, because this is the book which Allah(swt) promised to safeguard. A fundamental of religion coming from ahadeeth cannot be made a hujjah on people, because ahadeeth are disputed upon. The even the Shia sects among themselves aren't agreed upon the ahadeeth.

Ali ibn Ibrahim has narrated from his father from al-Nawfali from al-Sakuni from Abu‘Abdallah(as) who has said the following: “The holy Prophet(saw) said, “The status of ‘Iman’ (true beliefs) is reflected from the good deeds and guidance is achieved through the ‘Mohqamat( Explicit Verses of Quran) Verses of Quran. Thus accept those Ahadith which are in agreement with Quran (Mohqamat) and reject those which are in disagreement with them (Mohqamat)” (Al kafi - Tradition 22.1 H 197, Ch. 22, h 1)

 

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