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T110: Not Another Iceman

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iceman

Re: T110: Not Another Iceman
« Reply #100 on: June 11, 2019, 11:40:52 AM »
owwwy, Malik Bin Nuwayrah became a Saint to the Rafidah, just because he and many of his tribe rejected a pillar of Islam. While, according to Sabaite theory, most of the Sahaba became APOSTATE by rejecting the "Divine Imamamamah"
- that's the difference in belief.

Bringing the Munafiqeen of Madinah , or the Zaqat denying tribe of yemen won't help in this case, because according to the standard of being a sahaba, those who did not accepted each and every rules of Islam from heart, were not sahaba at all. That's what happened to people of that tribe, after the Demise of Rasulullah( صلى الله عليه وسلم) they thought of stop paying the money ordered by Allah and his Rasul( صلى الله عليه وسلم)

Prophet( صلى الله عليه وسلم) was informed about these people in his lifetime-

Abu Huraira narrated that the Prophet (ﷺ) said:
"On the Day of Resurrection a group of companions will come to me, but will be driven away from the Lake-Fount, and I will say, 'O Lord (those are) my companions!' It will be said, 'You have no knowledge as to what they innovated after you left; they turned apostate as renegades (reverted from Islam). [BUkhari 6585]

You're deliberately avoiding the point here. Can the companions of the Prophet s.a.w become apostates after the death of the Prophet s.a.w or not. That's the main point. Make this a principle and quit double standards.  I only mentioned the case of Malik bin Nuwayrah and other companions alongside him and gave a clear example that companions aren't untouchable by being exempt by your rules. One minute you defend them by labelling then 'MEHFOOZ'. They're not 'MASOOM' but 'MEHFOOZ'. And then you accuse some of apostasy. That's how far you go. And accuse us of pointing put at certain Companions. Just want to expose this double standard policy ypu have. Make a principle gents then stick to it. You're all over the place.

iceman

Re: T110: Not Another Iceman
« Reply #101 on: June 11, 2019, 11:55:48 AM »
I provided a hadith as a proof that, Umar(ra) attained success in the test of Allah, and achieved forgiveness and great reward- which was mentioned in the ayat later. However, you are saying that you don't care whatever Allah declared , you want to write your own philosophy.

The behavior of the sahaba was due to the physical condition of  prophet(sallallahu alaihi wasallam), they were too much worried for him and and confused about whether to arrange writing in that terrible pain or not- this was the only tension. You can't claim that they were making chaos deliberately to snatch Imamah from Ahlul Bayt!
WHatever Umar said , was to not trouble Prophet( صلى الله عليه وسلم) when he was suffering from pained, he said-
فَقَالَ بَعْضُهُمْ إِنَّ رَسُولَ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم قَدْ غَلَبَهُ الْوَجَعُ وَعِنْدَكُمُ الْقُرْآنُ، حَسْبُنَا كِتَابُ اللَّهِ
'Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) is seriously ill and you have the (Holy) Qur'an. Allah's Book is sufficient for us.'
Believing the perfection of Quran and trying to relief Prophet( صلى الله عليه وسلم) from the troubles was wrong according to you?

for your kind information, Ummah got the message which was to be conveyed by Prophet( صلى الله عليه وسلم) -
" .....Leave me. I am better in the state (than the one in which you are engaged). I make a will about three things: Turn out the polytheists from the territory of Arabia; show hospitality to the (foreign) delegations as I used to show them hospitality. He (the narrator) said: He (Ibn Abbas) kept silent on the third point, or he (the narrator) said: But I forgot that."
https://sunnah.com/muslim/25/29

I am bringing Imamah here, because, that's the missing brick in the puzzle of Shiasm. We sunnis do not think that Islam lost any important things by these types of incidents or prophethood was failed to convey any important rulings just because of the so called "chaos" of sahaba.

Rather than being rational about this and looking at it clearly and in both ways, you are doing your best by looking at it  one way and protecting Umar and his intentions without a shadow of a doubt. That's the whole problem with you loyalists. You accuse us of deliberately targeting certain Sahaba when we only bring in and discuss reality and facts concerning them.

As I have already mentioned that you label Sahaba as 'MEHFOOZ'. And then you go around violating your own principles to suit each situation to your desire. The case of Malik bin Nuwayrah and other companions with him who were slaughtered in cold blood has already been discussed in great detail in another thread. I'll post a bit for your knowledge and information.

As far as the pen and paper incident is concerned, you are clearly an Umar loyalist. And you will protect him no matter what. And I am no anti Umar. I will bring in reality and facts and will continue to look at each matter and situation separately and with an open mind without being bias or prejudice towards anyone.

muslim720

Re: T110: Not Another Iceman
« Reply #102 on: June 11, 2019, 01:48:24 PM »
Our coward ran from those in authority. Your cowards abandoned the Prophet s.a.w and left him stranded and all alone. Something that our coward didn't do.

Iceman.....melted!
"Our coward ran from those in authority" - Iceman (admitting the truth regarding his 12th Imam)

iceman

Re: T110: Not Another Iceman
« Reply #103 on: June 11, 2019, 02:48:12 PM »
Iceman.....melted!

Just pointing out facts here. The Shia Mahdi has been accused on numerous occasions of being a coward and going into hiding. So he ran from who and from what? From those in authority and from persecution.

People constantly bang on about this but never bother to mention other cowards who also ran. Ran from who? Mushriks and kafirs. Ran from where? The battle field. Why? To save their lives. A crucial fact, leaving the Prophet s.a.w behind. Abandoning Allah and his Messenger s.a.w. 😊

Sweet dreams. Just thought I'd mention it. But I know your kind won't be getting any sweet dreams after this. If you have any shame in you that is. Learn to respect others. Otherwise reality and facts will come to bite you. Get your act together!

Before engaging in conversation  (discussions and debates) learn some manners are show respect to others and what they believe in.

muslim720

Re: T110: Not Another Iceman
« Reply #104 on: June 11, 2019, 03:22:06 PM »
Just pointing out facts here.

Damn right you are!  He is a coward to have been in hiding for over 1000 years leaving you all to scramble for, and fail to assemble, 313 men.

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The Shia Mahdi has been accused on numerous occasions of being a coward and going into hiding.

Convicted, not accused.

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So he ran from who and from what? From those in authority and from persecution.

Imam Ali (ra) was in authority and so was Imam Hassan (ra).  Muawiya did not run from them.  Infallibles failing in the face of a fallible man who was not even in authority.

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People constantly bang on about this but never bother to mention other cowards who also ran.

Thus far having failed to even assemble 313 men, Shias are infatuated with those who ran from battlefields albeit temporarily.  Therefore, they (Shias) and their own beliefs will be scrutinized according to their own set standards.  The good news for us is that everyone who fled from Hunain and Uhud were forgiven.  The bad news for you is that you cannot find 313 men nor can you find your 12th Imam.

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Learn to respect others. Otherwise reality and facts will come to bite you. Get your act together!

Exactly my point!  When you run your mouth against the Sahaba (ra), you are only adding insult to your own injury of being unable to put together 313 men to convince your scared Imam to return.

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Before engaging in conversation  (discussions and debates) learn some manners are show respect to others and what they believe in.

I am sorry but it is not my madhhab that encourages and promotes the cursing of noble personalities as means of gaining good.
"Our coward ran from those in authority" - Iceman (admitting the truth regarding his 12th Imam)

iceman

Re: T110: Not Another Iceman
« Reply #105 on: June 13, 2019, 12:43:58 AM »
Damn right you are!  He is a coward to have been in hiding for over 1000 years leaving you all to scramble for, and fail to assemble, 313 men.

Convicted, not accused.

Imam Ali (ra) was in authority and so was Imam Hassan (ra).  Muawiya did not run from them.  Infallibles failing in the face of a fallible man who was not even in authority.

Thus far having failed to even assemble 313 men, Shias are infatuated with those who ran from battlefields albeit temporarily.  Therefore, they (Shias) and their own beliefs will be scrutinized according to their own set standards.  The good news for us is that everyone who fled from Hunain and Uhud were forgiven.  The bad news for you is that you cannot find 313 men nor can you find your 12th Imam.

Exactly my point!  When you run your mouth against the Sahaba (ra), you are only adding insult to your own injury of being unable to put together 313 men to convince your scared Imam to return.

I am sorry but it is not my madhhab that encourages and promotes the cursing of noble personalities as means of gaining good.

"Damn right you are!  He is a coward to have been in hiding for over 1000 years leaving you all to scramble for, and fail to assemble, 313 men"

😊 And what about those cowards who fled from the battlefield to save their lives. Because their lives were more important to them than Allah and his Prophet s.a.w. And they fled, were being chased away by Mushriks and Kafirs leaving the Prophet s.a.w behind abandoned and stranded. What are your thoughts on these cowards which no one will deny that they became cowards. After all fleeing from the battlefield from your enemy is a cowardly act, isn't it. 😊

muslim720

Re: T110: Not Another Iceman
« Reply #106 on: June 13, 2019, 03:15:15 AM »
"Damn right you are!  He is a coward to have been in hiding for over 1000 years leaving you all to scramble for, and fail to assemble, 313 men"

😊 And what about those cowards who fled from the battlefield to save their lives. Because their lives were more important to them than Allah and his Prophet s.a.w. And they fled, were being chased away by Mushriks and Kafirs leaving the Prophet s.a.w behind abandoned and stranded. What are your thoughts on these cowards which no one will deny that they became cowards. After all fleeing from the battlefield from your enemy is a cowardly act, isn't it. 😊

It is sufficient to see you deliver a similar judgment on both.  As long as you consider your own 12th Imam a coward, which you have already admitted to, I am quite okay if you consider those who fled Hunain and Uhud to be "cowards" as well.  As wrong as you are in saying that about the Sahaba (ra) who fled Hunain and Uhud, at least your judgment is consistent.
"Our coward ran from those in authority" - Iceman (admitting the truth regarding his 12th Imam)

iceman

Re: T110: Not Another Iceman
« Reply #107 on: June 14, 2019, 12:34:16 AM »
It is sufficient to see you deliver a similar judgment on both.  As long as you consider your own 12th Imam a coward, which you have already admitted to, I am quite okay if you consider those who fled Hunain and Uhud to be "cowards" as well.  As wrong as you are in saying that about the Sahaba (ra) who fled Hunain and Uhud, at least your judgment is consistent.

You've always called the one in HIDING a COWARD. What about those who fled the battlefield. Fled from the enemies of Allah and his Prophet s.a.w. fled to save their lives. Fled abandoning the Prophet s.a.w and leaving him stranded. Any thoughts here. 😊 Since you're talking about cowardice and cowards. So what's keeping you here. 😊
« Last Edit: June 14, 2019, 12:46:34 AM by iceman »

iceman

Re: T110: Not Another Iceman
« Reply #108 on: June 14, 2019, 12:50:13 AM »
It is sufficient to see you deliver a similar judgment on both.  As long as you consider your own 12th Imam a coward, which you have already admitted to, I am quite okay if you consider those who fled Hunain and Uhud to be "cowards" as well.  As wrong as you are in saying that about the Sahaba (ra) who fled Hunain and Uhud, at least your judgment is consistent.

"As long as you consider your own 12th Imam a coward"

You accuse of being a coward. You always have slandered him. And so have the others. I just pointed out to you that what about those who fled. 😊 Why are you so silent there.  That's all.

iceman

Re: T110: Not Another Iceman
« Reply #109 on: June 14, 2019, 01:17:18 AM »
It is sufficient to see you deliver a similar judgment on both.  As long as you consider your own 12th Imam a coward, which you have already admitted to, I am quite okay if you consider those who fled Hunain and Uhud to be "cowards" as well.  As wrong as you are in saying that about the Sahaba (ra) who fled Hunain and Uhud, at least your judgment is consistent.

"It is sufficient to see you deliver a similar judgment on both"

I don't pass and deliver judgment on anyone. Nor am I disrespectful and rude to anyone or to any important figure to anyone. That's been your way and those who are like you and have the same nature as you.

"As long as you consider your own 12th Imam a coward"

You consider him a coward. I'm just asking you to be fair to yourself and acknowledge and accept those who fled.

"which you have already admitted to"

Are you that desperate that you need to force something on me. I haven't admitted. Only pointed out to you that you consider him to be a coward then what about those who fled. I spoke based on argumentative reasons and to make a point.

"As wrong as you are in saying that about the Sahaba"

What is wrong here and what is right over there? Please explain.

muslim720

Re: T110: Not Another Iceman
« Reply #110 on: June 14, 2019, 02:13:57 PM »
I don't pass and deliver judgment on anyone. Nor am I disrespectful and rude to anyone or to any important figure to anyone. That's been your way and those who are like you and have the same nature as you.

Apart from being disrespectful, you are a spineless coward. 

T110 came with guns blazing throwing the kitchen sink at us.  When I refuted him on every point he brought up and started a running list of his mistakes, he went into occultation.  Every now and then, he rears his head to assure us that he will come back with responses but he never does.  You know why?  Because deep down, his self-esteem has caught up with him not allowing him to come back and face more humiliation.  You, on the other hand, despite having been humiliated in ways beyond imagination, keep coming back for more.  Hence, you are a spineless coward who has no self-esteem and zero self-worth.
"Our coward ran from those in authority" - Iceman (admitting the truth regarding his 12th Imam)

iceman

Re: T110: Not Another Iceman
« Reply #111 on: June 14, 2019, 08:57:25 PM »
Apart from being disrespectful, you are a spineless coward. 

T110 came with guns blazing throwing the kitchen sink at us.  When I refuted him on every point he brought up and started a running list of his mistakes, he went into occultation.  Every now and then, he rears his head to assure us that he will come back with responses but he never does.  You know why?  Because deep down, his self-esteem has caught up with him not allowing him to come back and face more humiliation.  You, on the other hand, despite having been humiliated in ways beyond imagination, keep coming back for more.  Hence, you are a spineless coward who has no self-esteem and zero self-worth.

"Apart from being disrespectful, you are a spineless coward"

First you were on about cowards and I wanted your thoughts on those who fled, from whom and for what reason, but you were too hesitant to say anything. Now you're on about spineless cowards. I didn't run from the battlefield, from the enemies of Allah and his Prophet s.a.w, leaving the Prophet s.a.w behind abandoned and stranded to save my life. If I did then what would you consider and call me 😊😊😊 You think I'm a spineless coward, and what do you think about those who fled? 😊

muslim720

Re: T110: Not Another Iceman
« Reply #112 on: June 14, 2019, 09:21:53 PM »
First you were on about cowards and I wanted your thoughts on those who fled, from whom and for what reason, but you were too hesitant to say anything.

No, we have settled the cowardice issue.  As per your own confession - see my signature - your 12th Imam takes the cake.

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Now you're on about spineless cowards. I didn't run from the battlefield, from the enemies of Allah and his Prophet s.a.w, leaving the Prophet s.a.w behind abandoned and stranded to save my life.

You run from points we make against your madhhab.  Not the same as running from the battlefield but also not that different.

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If I did then what would you consider and call me 😊😊😊

I would call you Imam-e-Zaman!  Aj aj baj baj kaj kaj faj faj taj taj!!!!
"Our coward ran from those in authority" - Iceman (admitting the truth regarding his 12th Imam)

iceman

Re: T110: Not Another Iceman
« Reply #113 on: June 14, 2019, 10:56:18 PM »
No, we have settled the cowardice issue.  As per your own confession - see my signature - your 12th Imam takes the cake.

You run from points we make against your madhhab.  Not the same as running from the battlefield but also not that different.

I would call you Imam-e-Zaman!  Aj aj baj baj kaj kaj faj faj taj taj!!!!

Yes we have settled it. You believe that the  12th Imam of the Shia (Al Mahdi) is a coward who has been hiding for so many years. And you and your boys have been banging on about this for ages. And I said to you that our coward, and that is according to you, fled from who? The government. Those in authority. From persecution. And what about those who fled from the battlefield, fled from the ENEMIES OF ALLAH AND HIS PROPHET S.A.W, to save THEIR LIVES, leaving the Prophet s.a.w behind, ABANDONING him and leaving him STRANDED.

The more you PUSH IT, the more you will be QUESTIONED about it. Get your act together 😊 I don't want this. Your pushing it and bringing it on.

muslim720

Re: T110: Not Another Iceman
« Reply #114 on: June 16, 2019, 02:45:17 AM »
Yes we have settled it. You believe that the  12th Imam of the Shia (Al Mahdi) is a coward who has been hiding for so many years.

No, we settled it when you also acknowledged his cowardice.  That is when it was settled!

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And you and your boys have been banging on about this for ages.

No, your madhhab is often guilty of mocking people whom Allah (swt) forgave.

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And I said to you that our coward, and that is according to you, fled from who?

Now we are talking.  Yes, your coward who is (allegedly) aided by Allah (swt), with power over atoms, ran away from the government.  That adds to his cowardice actually!  Why would you run away from mortal beings when you exercise control over the universe and atoms?  Or is it that your 12th Imam doubts Allah's (swt) protection?  Or could it be that your bid'ah (the concept of Imamah) is a fable?

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And what about those who fled from the battlefield

In the Qur'an, Allah (swt) has absolved them.  You have problems with Allah (swt), not with us.  We hear and we obey; you hear, mock and disobey the Word of Allah (swt).

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The more you PUSH IT, the more you will be QUESTIONED about it.

We are not pushing anything.  You and I agree that Imam-e-Zaman is a coward, lol!
"Our coward ran from those in authority" - Iceman (admitting the truth regarding his 12th Imam)

muslim720

Re: T110: Not Another Iceman
« Reply #115 on: July 24, 2019, 02:25:24 PM »
Just as I suspected, T-110 has gone into occultation.  He barely lasted two weeks. 
"Our coward ran from those in authority" - Iceman (admitting the truth regarding his 12th Imam)

iceman

Re: T110: Not Another Iceman
« Reply #116 on: July 27, 2019, 04:44:59 PM »
No, we settled it when you also acknowledged his cowardice.  That is when it was settled!

No, your madhhab is often guilty of mocking people whom Allah (swt) forgave.

Now we are talking.  Yes, your coward who is (allegedly) aided by Allah (swt), with power over atoms, ran away from the government.  That adds to his cowardice actually!  Why would you run away from mortal beings when you exercise control over the universe and atoms?  Or is it that your 12th Imam doubts Allah's (swt) protection?  Or could it be that your bid'ah (the concept of Imamah) is a fable?

In the Qur'an, Allah (swt) has absolved them.  You have problems with Allah (swt), not with us.  We hear and we obey; you hear, mock and disobey the Word of Allah (swt).

We are not pushing anything.  You and I agree that Imam-e-Zaman is a coward, lol!

No, we settled it when you also acknowledged his cowardice.  That is when it was settled"

Don't put your desired words in my mouth. He's a coward according to you or your kind. So 'our coward' means the one touch label. Nice try but you can't win by scoring cheap points.

"No, your madhhab is often guilty of mocking people whom Allah (swt) forgave"

No it isn't. It's easy for you to accuse than prove. Being forgiven for a sin or error is one thing but being brave is another. Allah forgave them doesn't mean you have been given the approval to rank them amongst the brave.

"Now we are talking.  Yes, your coward"

According to you and your kind.

"with power over atoms, ran away from the government"

And what about those who ran away from the enemies of Allah and his Prophet s.a.w  from the battlefield abandoning the Prophet s.a.w and leaving him stranded. Extremely embarrassing. They were forgiven for it? Well the stain and embarrassment doesn't go away. So did they do anything to rank amongst the brave? I don't think so. Now I know why you pick on Al Mahdi. You're actually doing it out of embarrassment.

"That adds to his cowardice actually!  Why would you run away from mortal beings when you exercise control over the universe and atoms?"

Allah sent Prophets and Messengers with clear signs to the children of Israel (Bani Isra'il) but they had the power to kill those Prophets and Messengers. I wonder how Allah allowed this despite being almighty. And you talk about running from tyrants and persecution. Lol.

"Or is it that your 12th Imam doubts Allah's (swt) protection?"

Lol. Where was Allah's protection when Bani Isra'il killed Prophets and Messengers who were sent with clear signs. Lol.

"Or could it be that your bid'ah (the concept of Imamah) is a fable?"

Lol. It's your thinking and ideology that is a fable. Lol.

"In the Qur'an, Allah (swt) has absolved them.  You have problems with Allah (swt), not with us.  We hear and we obey; you hear, mock and disobey the Word of Allah (swt)"

Does that mean they're not cowards anymore. Or what they did wasn't cowardice, cowardly. Why do you hesitate to call cowards coward.

"We are not pushing anything.  You and I agree that Imam-e-Zaman is a coward, lol!"

And you don't have to accept and agree that those who fled the battlefield from the enemies of Allah and his Prophet s.a.w were cowards. Lol. Facts are facts whether you agree or not lol.

muslim720

Re: T110: Not Another Iceman
« Reply #117 on: July 29, 2019, 02:13:19 PM »
Don't put your desired words in my mouth. He's a coward according to you or your kind. So 'our coward' means the one touch label. Nice try but you can't win by scoring cheap points.

I have your exact quote declaring him a coward.  Need a screenshot?

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No it isn't. It's easy for you to accuse than prove. Being forgiven for a sin or error is one thing but being brave is another. Allah forgave them doesn't mean you have been given the approval to rank them amongst the brave.

In other words, Allah (swt) forgave them but you refuse to do so.  Allah (swt) forgave their error but you will expose it till the Day of Judgment.  And then you wonder why we declare you an enemy of Islam.

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Well the stain and embarrassment doesn't go away.

Allah (swt) promised them forgiveness so the "stain and embarrassment" is on you.

According to your narrative, they opposed your "infallibles" (ra) yet Allah (swt) promised them Paradise, lol. 

I know it hurts.

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Allah sent Prophets and Messengers with clear signs to the children of Israel (Bani Isra'il) but they had the power to kill those Prophets and Messengers. I wonder how Allah allowed this despite being almighty. And you talk about running from tyrants and persecution. Lol.

Your argument - although a bad comparison - goes against your premise.  The very fact that these Prophets and Messengers (asws) were killed by Bani Isra'il proves that these Prophets and Messengers (asws) delivered the message openly instead of hiding in a cave out of cowardice.

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Lol. Where was Allah's protection when Bani Isra'il killed Prophets and Messengers who were sent with clear signs. Lol.

Strawman!

It is the Shi'i excuse which says that the 12th Imam is hiding as means to protect himself.  Therefore, it logically follows that he, despite having power over atoms and the universe, doubts Allah's (swt) protection.

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Does that mean they're not cowards anymore. Or what they did wasn't cowardice, cowardly. Why do you hesitate to call cowards coward.

I have always called the "Guide" a coward for running away from his responsibilities and hiding in some cellar.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2019, 02:14:36 PM by muslim720 »
"Our coward ran from those in authority" - Iceman (admitting the truth regarding his 12th Imam)

iceman

Re: T110: Not Another Iceman
« Reply #118 on: July 30, 2019, 11:51:59 PM »
I have your exact quote declaring him a coward.  Need a screenshot?

In other words, Allah (swt) forgave them but you refuse to do so.  Allah (swt) forgave their error but you will expose it till the Day of Judgment.  And then you wonder why we declare you an enemy of Islam.

Allah (swt) promised them forgiveness so the "stain and embarrassment" is on you.

According to your narrative, they opposed your "infallibles" (ra) yet Allah (swt) promised them Paradise, lol. 

I know it hurts.

Your argument - although a bad comparison - goes against your premise.  The very fact that these Prophets and Messengers (asws) were killed by Bani Isra'il proves that these Prophets and Messengers (asws) delivered the message openly instead of hiding in a cave out of cowardice.

Strawman!

It is the Shi'i excuse which says that the 12th Imam is hiding as means to protect himself.  Therefore, it logically follows that he, despite having power over atoms and the universe, doubts Allah's (swt) protection.

I have always called the "Guide" a coward for running away from his responsibilities and hiding in some cellar.

"I have your exact quote declaring him a coward.  Need a screenshot"

I didn't declare him a coward. He didn't run from the battlefield and from the enemies of Allah and his Prophet s.a.w. He didn't abandon the Prophet s.a.w and leave him stranded. If he did then most certainly he would be a coward.

"In other words, Allah (swt) forgave them but you refuse to do so"

We don't have a problem with that. When you start to raise their status above what they are or start to put them above others that's were the problem lies.

"Allah (swt) forgave their error but you will expose it till the Day of Judgment"

Nope. When you constantly accuse Al Mahdi of being a coward and going into hiding then relevant, approximate and the right stuff is mentioned and brought forward.

"And then you wonder why we declare you an enemy of Islam"

We aren't the enemies of Islam. The enemies of Islam were at the Battle of Ohad from whom they ran. You accusing us doesn't mean or stand for anything.

"Allah (swt) promised them forgiveness so the "stain and embarrassment" is on you"

Allah FORGAVE them. He didn't REWARD them. That's where you need to sort yourselves out. Stain of embarrassment is on those who acted cowardly. Facts are facts and you can't change them. No one can.

"According to your narrative, they opposed your "infallibles" (ra) yet Allah (swt) promised them Paradise, lol"

They opposed Allah and his Prophet s.a.w. Apart from that they didn't oppose anyone. If we go by your silly theory then the Satan is making a fool out of everybody.

"I know it hurts"

Can you feel it. If you can then you must be hurting. I can't. So I ain't.

"Your argument - although a bad comparison - goes against your premise.  The very fact that these Prophets and Messengers (asws) were killed by Bani Isra'il proves that these Prophets and Messengers (asws) delivered the message openly instead of hiding in a cave out of cowardice"

What ever orders were given to the Prophets they carried them out regardless of the outcome. What ever orders were given to the Imams they carried them out regardless of the outcome.

"instead of hiding in a cave out of cowardice"

So what do think and make of those who actually fled the battlefield from the enemies of Allah and his Prophet s.a.w leaving the Prophet s.a.w abandoned and stranded. You're keen on talking about hiding and cowardice, what about fleeing and cowardice. If that's what you believe in then Allah forgave them so he won't have any problems forgiving him either.

"It is the Shi'i excuse which says that the 12th Imam is hiding as means to protect himself"

Nope. You've got it wrong again as usual. He went into OCCULTATION not into HIDING. Not to protect himself but to let the Ummah get on with it.

Therefore, it logically follows that he, despite having power over atoms and the universe, doubts Allah's (swt) protection.

Allah is almighty but Satan is still getting the better if we go by your silly theory.

"I have always called the "Guide" a coward for running away from his responsibilities and hiding in some cellar"

Then the world will always go by reality and stick with facts that can't be altered or changed that those who fled from the battlefield abandoning the Prophet s.a.w and leaving him stranded were and are cowards. And will always remain in that category. Then you shouldn't  have a problem with this.

iceman

Re: T110: Not Another Iceman
« Reply #119 on: July 30, 2019, 11:56:12 PM »
O ye who believe! when ye meet the Unbelievers in hostile array, never turn your backs to them. (Surah Al-Anfal, 15)

If any do turn his back to them on such a day - unless it be in a stratagem of war, or to retreat to a troop (of his own)- he draws on himself the wrath of Allah, and his abode is Hell,- an evil refuge (indeed)! (Surah Al-Anfal, 16)

O ye who believe! what is the matter with you, that, when ye are asked to go forth in the cause of Allah, ye cling heavily to the earth? Do ye prefer the life of this world to the Hereafter? But little is the comfort of this life, as compared with the Hereafter. (Surah At-Tawba, 38)

Unless ye go forth, He will punish you with a grievous penalty, and put others in your place; but Him ye would not harm in the least.For Allah hath power over all things. (Surah At-Tawba, 39)

Almighty Allah says (what can be translated as): “O you who have believed, when you meet those who disbelieve advancing [for battle], do not turn to them your backs [in flight]. And whoever turns his back to them on such a day, unless swerving [as a strategy] for war or joining [another] company, has certainly returned with anger [upon him] from Allah, and his refuge is Hell - and wretched is the destination.” (Al-Anfal: 15-16)

Almighty Allah commands the believers to stand firm in battles and confront the disbelievers by faithful hearts. He encourages them not to retreat or turn their backs to the enemies even if the disbelievers were more than the believers in number because fleeing from the battlefield causes weakness inside the fighting Islamic army.

Almighty Allah lets the fighter move freely during the battle. They used to move from one place in the battle to another to support a group of Muslims or to fill a gap from which the enemies penetrated. The important thing is that the Muslim fighter’s aim has to be victory or martyrdom and obeying the commands of the leadership. As for those who leave the battle whether to flee or escape death, Almighty Allah promises them with painful torment on the Day of Resurrection.

Allah’s Messenger, Peace Be upon Him, rated the act of fleeing from the battle as one of the major sins.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2019, 12:00:15 AM by iceman »

 

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